I hate this hobby.

[Delphinus]

Does anyone have this.

I dread coming home from work every day to find out "what's happened now."

For the first time in two weeks I was excited to come home because I finally had gotten the nerve to try a new fish and took him home.

And I came home to find out that he swam into the anemone and suffered so much injuries he could not recover.

Anytime I get just a little tiny bit ahead, I am smacked right back down.

I can't think of the last time I thought I was having fun in this hobby. I can't take it anymore.

I hate this

[Aquattro]

Tony, I sit here trying to find something to say to boost your moral, but I also come home most days to find things worst than the day before :rolleyes:

[Delphinus]

Yeah, I'm sorry. I wrote that in a fit of frustration.

I thought the worst moment in my reefkeeping was when I had a float valve fail and I woke up to find 50g of SW on my family room floor and the SG in the tank at 1.0000 SG. The carnage was bad. But, the losses suffered this year have been worse. They've just been spread out over months instead of one specific incident.

Hard lessons to learn, I think I just did my dissertion for my masters degree from the school of hard knocks.

We'll see where to go from here. I'm thinking "one tank" instead of "several." One tank but maybe witha backup refugium or something, and that's it.

[Beverly]

Tony,

Maybe one tank would suit you better. You've actually been through more crap in the last few months than I've had over the years, and I've had BAD stuff happen :cry:

None of my tanks have even been high tech, no sumps or refugiums to overflow, no auto top up things to foul up, only a skimmer that overflowed a few times.

When we set up out current three tanks, we vowed not to have anything outside our tanks that could make a mess. This means weekly water changes and other tedious maintenance, but for the most part, it is all working out well so far. While the BBs in the three tanks seem to take more maintenance, I think over the long run, we will be happy we made the change.

One good thing about the work involved in siphoning crud on a weekly basis is that my non-reef knowledgeable husband is working side by side with me on water change day. And, you know, it's brought us a little closer together and he now appreciates the love of the tanks the way I do.

Anyway, whatever you decide, please stay with the hobby in some form or other. You are a valuable member of this online community and I would truly be sad if you were to throw in the towel.

Take care.

[Bob I]

Hate the hobby :question: , I don't think so. :exclaim: . It sounds very much like you need to become Ritteri free as quickly as possible.

[Delphinus]

Thanks guys. Don't worry I won't throw in the towel just yet; I still have a commitment to my other animals.

Don't know what to do with the ritteri; it's not like it can go into a typical tank. Very frustrating that this year it's turned into a monster after having been reasonably benign over the last several years.

[AJ_77]

Kind of like keeping a white Bengal tiger...




Hey don't forget - You're welcome to come over anytime and relax over a brew while we ponder the "simpler" paths to reefkeeping... :mrgreen:
You just have to be happy with mediocrity. :biggrin:

(oh, and can I buy yer reactor if yer done with it? ...ay?)

[EmilyB]

No way is it like that. :confused: It is rewarding most every day, and I demand perfection the rest. I feel bad for complaining about some cyano.

But I spend a lot of time making sure things are okay. I don't really have a life......I know you are always busy Tony. Maybe it is a priority thing?

[Doug]

Your not alone ther Tony. :sad:

Although my tank is not having any problems at the moment, I still feel that way. As I have said before, the couple years of fighting flatworms and such, has just taken the wind from my sails. Seems hard to get it back, despite what direction I go.

Its funny that three of the mods feel this way. :confused: Guess its partly because we are all "seasoned" aquarists.

I have to agree with Bev,s line of thought. SIMPLE. However its hard to do regular water changes and siphon in a large tank like mine. Again part of the problem. When I down sized before, I still used most of the same equipment, likely my downfall. So I went large again but thats solved nothing. :biggrin:

So, short of leaving the hobby, I like Bev,s idea. But not multiple tanks for me. Something that can run on a large power filter for circulation, use one of my single 175w pendants, no skimmers, no reactors, no huge pumps. :lol: Regular weekly water changes should fit the bill.

Seemed when I worked for a living, time was a concern, thus limiting my tanks sizes and such. Now, one needs to watch the budget, but more time. :confused:

I read on many of the boards, about many seasoned aquarists going through the same. I sometimes think we get burnout, caused by all the high tech. equipment, thats supposed to make it easier. And of course, then replacement costs. Seems you do everything perfect, then comes along problems like Brad, Tony, Steve and others have had, just to mention a few. It eventually has to play on your nerves.

Anyways, Tony, I still think there are ways to still enjoy the hobby, with less frustrations. :smile:

[Aquattro]

I still think there are ways to still enjoy the hobby, with less frustrations. :smile:

I'm thinking that real cool reef aquarium screensaver for Windows XP!!

I just woke up to another RTN'ed coral. Adds a nice white touch to the tank :rolleyes:

[Delphinus]

I'm sorry to hear that Brad. :frown:

[Bob I]

Anyways, Tony, I still think there are ways to still enjoy the hobby, with less frustrations. :smile:

I am inclined to agree with the "simple" aspect. I have been at this for three+ years, and have tried to keep it simple. I don't have huge tanks. 52G semicube is the largest. I have no external things except for Fluvals to hold the Chemipure, which keeps me from doing many water changes. No RO/DI water, no Calcium reactors, no skimmers. Basically no nothing. I of course limit myself to things that are not too difficult ie. Zoanthids and LPS corals mainly with some digitata thrown in for good measure. I don't know what a Flatworm looks like :eek: During my time in the hobby thing have gone swimmingly (A pun :question: ) And best of all I continuw to enjoy it. :biggrin:

[christyf5]

Although my tank is not having any problems at the moment, I still feel that way. As I have said before, the couple years of fighting flatworms and such, has just taken the wind from my sails. Seems hard to get it back, despite what direction I go.

I'm with you on this one Doug. Most of this year has been spent battling dinoflagellates which have yet again cropped up in my tank. In the wake of victory, comes a wave of yet another algae (somewhat like Brads, the type that the astreas ate) followed by a massive caulerpa bloom. The cycle just keeps on going. Prune back the caulerpa, tank looks good for a couple of weeks and I think I'm in the clear, add something, then the dinos are back, sps and snails die, kill the dinos, algae pops up, get astreas which eat the algae, caulerpa blooms, prune caulerpa, dinos arrive etc etc. I just can't win and I'm really tired of it.

I've tried everything in the books, spent alot of time on the tank, spent little time on the tank, spent no time on the tank, more skimming, water changes (yes I've checked my RODI), etc etc. Even when the tank does look good for that little time, I am still at a loss because I can't do anything with it without some sort of other algae problem popping up.

Lately I've been starting to calculate how much money I could get if I sold the whole thing. But then I'd probably be bored because I'd have nothing to fiddle with and feel lost without my constant depression and frustratedness about my tank :razz:

Christy :)

[Delphinus]

Respectfully, I should have said "I hate the frustration that comes with the hobby sometimes." I dont really hate the hobby or else I would be selling everything. I'm sure everyone has their moments of frustration. It wouldn't be an interesting hobby if it didn't have its challenges.

I think Christy nailed it bang on, I'd be lost without the tanks.

I don't know if it's really a question of priorities or even simple vs. complicated. I'm frustrated from a bit of bad luck that got compounded by bad calls on my part which made things worse. Whether I was home or not, or had a skimmer or not, my tank would still have sprung a leak. That part I couldn't influence, but what I could influence is what came after. I made a series of decisions which were meant to mitigate and contain risk, and yet despite this, either the risks came to fruition, or there were latent risks that weren't identified and and thus properly mitigated.

With each negative incident, you take away something you can learn and improve upon. It's just kind of sad that sometimes our learning opportunities sometimes cost innocent animals their lives. This is the part I have the most trouble coming to terms. Had I done better, they might not have died. So, even if it's bad luck that started something, in the end I still feel responsible. I am responsible.

I just hope that, wherever I go from here, I don't make the same mistakes again.

[Canadian Man]

I don't think we should all get too depressed when bad things happen.

I almost burnt my house down the other day because my frag tank overflowwed and i'm still happy. I kicked myself for putting a powerbar on the top of a bucket with a lid later and now the powerbar is in a more safe spot. There is also a screen on the drain tube.

BUT

I had a huge bout of anger when it happened. I was ****ed because I had to clean up 10 gallons of water off the floor but....

The next time I looked at my tank I was happy none the less.

I had one of my fav corals RTN the other day.... Oh well....Broke off the tips and start over.

It's just a hobby :biggrin:

[Buccaneer]

Where we are lucky though is that in the sharing of our experiences we all learn from the mistakes of our own and others ... keeping a small chunk of the reef in a glass box thousands of miles away from the nearest natural reef is a achievement in itself ... the trick is to find the right formula for success for the animals you choose to keep.

water changes vs no water changes
skimmer vs no skimmer

and on and on will likely depend on the individual reefkeepers combination of parameters ( size of tank/inhabitants etc plus whatever came in on our rock/fish)

I will say that there will always be the possibility of disaster which will test your resolve and I have had my share as well :rolleyes:


but there are lots of examples of reefers that have done a magnificent job ( both low tech and high tech ) and have figured out what combination of factors keep their reef going beautifully year after year ( there is a article on RC of some guy with a 20 yr old reef and a " undergravel filter " as his primary filtration outside of live rock !

[MitchM]

I know this sound weird, but "great thread, Tony!"
I have had many frustrations with this hobby, and I've tried to look at the problem being with my perceptions, not with my reef.

I've noticed that flatworms bloom shortly before a cyano outbreak, that snails shells grow best when calcium is high, that for some strange reason, when my calcium reactor is shut down, the corals seem to do extremely well for about a week or so, that foraminiferans do great right in the middle of "everything going well", that my fish recognize me and are happy to see me and the food, not just some stranger, that the bigger the tank/system I have, the more predictible the fish behaviour is, the simpler and more maintenance free (read - bigger) my system is, the more time that I have for observing.
The list goes on.

I think that we make a mistake when we try to get perfection out of our mini reefs. Changes, evolutions happen, and we want everything to remain the same. Obviously, we can't make that happen.

The solution is to make a big, simple, mechanically stable system and watch what happens. What we expect, or are told what to expect, is usually what doesn't happen. That's what I love about it, and I try to make sure that I know enough to still ensure the safety of the fish and corals.
Get a bigger tank Tony, or give/sell that anemone to someone with a huge tank. There are big anemones in the wild and fish around them. I don't mean to be blunt, sorry.
I have never understood the thinking behind nano-reefs, relatively speaking. We don't need big expensive glass aquariums, but at least some serious water volume where all the various bacteria/macroalgaes/copepod/various pods can live out their life cycle and do what they do best.
In a smaller system, bad things will happen quickly and constantly.


Mitch

[MitchM]

Also.. :smile:

Month after month I see Tank-of-the-month articles featuring tanks that are 50% water and 50% LR/fish/corals. Crammed full of "life". It's not representative of the oceans, so why would they be as stable and self-sustaining?

Mitch

[AJ_77]

Interesting points - imagine the size of tanks we'd have to get anything close to "realistic." I'm all for upgrading to make more room for water. :biggrin:

I think a jam-packed 75gal would look a lot better measured into a 120, for instance...

[Aquattro]

Lots of good points. None of them made me feel any better about coming home to more acros sloughing tonight. Green milli on it's way out now. All the blue gone, a new piece is completed RTN'ed. :rolleyes:

[MitchM]

Take it as a sign... :smile:
We all need to approach this hobby differently.

Mitch

[AJ_77]

Sorry to hear that Brad - can't imagine how I'd be freaking out in that situation, probably with much anger/frustration though. Do you see and end to this? Or is it going to be you and Steve supporting your local LFS for a few months to come?
-----------------
Mitch: what do you mean?

[Cap'n]

Also.. :smile:

Month after month I see Tank-of-the-month articles featuring tanks that are 50% water and 50% LR/fish/corals. Crammed full of "life". It's not representative of the oceans, so why would they be as stable and self-sustaining?

Mitch


This has been my thought for quite a long time, and was confirmed with snorkelling in Hawaii. My first impression was "Man, is this ever dirty!". There was a layer of sludge covering the ocean floor and bits of crud floating everywhere. The other main thing I noticed was the distance I had to travel between points of interest. A cluster of rock and reef here with its accompanying fauna, then a few (or several) metres away another similar formation. Even in the most densely populated reefs I never saw anything close to the concentration of many tanks.

I guess what I'm trying to say is to get that much life to thrive in such a self contained environment takes a massive amount of fine tuning. The more points to tune, the easier it is to get out of line. And to keep that system pristinely clean as well...

There are those who drive a Ferrari and are comfortable with the mechanics bills and frequent tune-ups that come with it. I drive an old VW Golf diesel, and love it.

[MitchM]

-----------------
Mitch: what do you mean?

I guess what I'm trying to say, and I don't mean to offend anybody, is that we pay so much attention to the "higher order" creatures - fish, corals, anemones... that we tend to forget about all the bacteria, algae, pods, various worms that are just as much part of the reef setting as anything else.

The very things that give us all so much trouble.

Except that the ratio of complex organisms to the simpler variety is so out of whack in our small systems that the balance swings so dramatically it winds up overwhelming one area/lifeform or another.
We really need to reduce the amount of "higher life" in our tanks, IMO.

In my case, in my main tank, I've got a nice carpet of cyano going on right now, even though I've changed my flow patterns to blow right over the affected sand. I know that hair algae isn't far behind, even with my big skimmer. Flatworms are there, too.
In my sump, however, nothing. Clean as a whistle. 6 or 7" sand bed in my sump, 2 or 3 inches now in my main tank. Why cyano in one and not the other? I'm not exactly sure, but I think I can say with certainty that I just plain have too many animals/corals in my set-up. I'm not upset about it. It is what it is. The ecosystem (if I can call it that) is doing exactly what it is supposed to do.

We wind up overloading the necessary support system for our fish, corals and anemones.
No amount of equipment can make up for that.
These aren't hydroponic vegetables.

Mitch

[Aquattro]

Do you see and end to this?

Oh ya, I see an end to this real soon. If I had the market in Victoria to be able to sell all my animals quickly, they would be gone already.
Unfortunately, there isn't enough demand to sell all my remaining corals, so I have to watch them fade, one at a time. If I keep the tank running, it looks like it might end up as a FOWLR tank....

Anyone that shows up at my door with 4 grand can walk away with the whole thing right now... :rolleyes:

[EmilyB]

:eek: :confused:

[Aquattro]

:eek: :confused:

And bring a truck.... :neutral:

[EmilyB]

No, no and no. I've been in this hobby six years and NO. There is something wrong if it is going that badly. IMO. :frown:

[Delphinus]

Getting a little off topic, but, Tim that fits with mostly my memories of snorkeling in Hawaii. I understand the real reefs you need to go quite a bit further out. Basically all I remember is fish. Congrats on the new addition BTW. :cool:

However, you want to see jam packed coral reef, you have to see the Great Barrier Reef. Even the most overcrowded tank does not compare. I found the Carribean (Cozumel/Mayan Riviera area) to be not too bad as well, but more softies like gorgs and such mixed in.

And Mitch, I've never really been bothered by the littler things. It's the big things that cause me trouble. So almost exactly the opposite of what you say. :razz: Although I do agree with some of your points. And as for the anemone, yes, it needs a bigger tank. I still maintain that for minimum risk however that it be a specialized setup. But I've come to terms with what's happened. One cannot hold an animal in contempt for being in its nature. It's like I've tried to warn others in the past: this species get ridiculously large. I thought I had it under control but I was wrong. I will tailor future decisions accordingly, and basically take the bitter pill of taking my own advice.

[Aquattro]

Deb, you're right. Something is wrong, and after 12 months of trying to solve the puzzle, I give up. Probably not permanently, but for now, I just give up. At this point there is no way I can sell the contents of the tank, so realistically, I just get to watch things fade away. I'm not intervening any more, so whatever happens, happens.
Like I said above, it may be a FOWLR by February...

[Delphinus]

Holy. Missed a few posts when I typed in my response to Tim, talk about your out of sequence replies.

Sorry about that

[MitchM]

If you're at that level of frustration, Brad, then I applaud you for the extra effort it must take to remain on the board helping out as much as you do. I sincerely hope that you don't get out of the hobby, either short or long term. You're a great resource.

Mitch

[Aquattro]

Mitch, as I was saying to Tony. I don't so much hate the hobby, just my tank. I still very much enjoy the board and the hobby in general. Just 53 weeks of this battle has beat me down.
I think it's best if I start over, but I'm stuck with what I have. Somehow I need to work with it, unless someone with a lot of money and a truck shows up at my door. :razz:

[Doug]

Mitch, as I was saying to Tony. I don't so much hate the hobby, just my tank. I still very much enjoy the board and the hobby in general. Just 53 weeks of this battle has beat me down.
I think it's best if I start over, but I'm stuck with what I have. Somehow I need to work with it, unless someone with a lot of money and a truck shows up at my door. :razz:

Wholly crap Brad. I never relized it was that bad either. Sorry for the losses.

Like you, its my tanks, not the hobby. I still love it and faithfully read most of my dozen or so boards everyday, with great anticipation.

Mitch, I disagree larger is better. Sorry, but thats where I have been. My systems are fully automated. Flatworms would not be so cute if anyone had the problems I had with them. Same with many others I know on the boards. Larger still means hard to reach in and clean, lots of salt for water changes, more and larger lights, large skimmers with large pumps and so on.

My current tank is lightly stocked, barebottom, lots of growth room for the sps corals. Unlike some of my other problems or some of the other posts here, my corals and fish are doing extremely well. Its still the upkeep and equipment of the large tanks that frustrate me now.

Like I mentioned before, perhaps to many years, to many problems lead to burnout. I have been at it for over 30 years, about 14 with a reef tank of somekind.

Another frustrating thing is all the aquarists I know on the boards and seeing some of their major problems like being mentioned here. It just makes me go hmmmmmmmm.

I guess these are just my feelings of course as I also know many with large, high tech tanks, that would have it no other way. So my major point on this thread is to agree with the philosophy of Bev and Bob, rather than leaving the hobby after many frustrations.

[StirCrazy]

unless someone with a lot of money and a truck shows up at my door. :razz:

I got the truck part

At any rate considering I had a huge let down in the last bit maybe I should put a cents worth in.

My loss was fast, and in the end it covered 99% of the fish (got the fox face to a LFS just in time) and 100% of the hard corals (which for argument sake was my entire tank)

this wasn't caused by an unknown problem, but rather an equipment failure (heater) I did seriously consider for about 4 to 8 hours just packing it in, and continued to do so as I watched everything "not recover" over the next 3 days, but I decided to redo it. My reasoning behind staying in Salt is simple, after I got over the initial upset I realized, how many people get a chance to start all over. to change bad fish decisions, or sand bed decisions, or coral choices in type and placement, well this was my chance. Another thing is once you get your tank up and established for all practical purposes you are done. I find the most satisfying part is building up to that point, as after that it is just something to look at.

But I also look at the other problems and in a way I am glad mine was sudden, I was totally devastated for about 1 day, upset for another one or two then that faded to oh well. but for some one who has been fighting a problem for a year or two with out making progress it is worse as you are continually beet down by the problem and get no sence of closure.

This hobby can be a roller coaster ride and it is not for the fien of heart or wallet. All it takes is a heater to stick and 2000.00 to 3000.00 worth of corals is gone overnight.

Steve

[MitchM]

My tank would never qualify for a Tank of the month. Nor would I want it to. Those are but a snapshot of a living organism. Trying to acheive that as a constant is unrealistic, IMO.
I look forward to the changes as they happen. It constantly reminds me that I have more to learn and that I can't sit back and watch a constant, perfect picture.
My first SW tank was in 1981. I've lived on a boat and loved it, I can't seem to get enough of the SW world.
My main frustration right now with this hobby is the emphasis that seems to be put on appearance and color. Myself, I like the activity and interactions between all the life forms.
While we may have our own preferences as to how much effort we want to put into our tanks, or how large/small a system is, we're all still dealing with animals that came from the same ocean.

To each their own, and I hope none of you people leave. This is a pretty great board.

Mitch

[AJ_77]

Like I said above, it may be a FOWLR by February...


Maybe a nice FOWLRAZ - "and zoos."

:biggrin:

(I don't mean to be a smartass, or trivialize your plight, but it's just a thought.)

[Bob I]

Like I said above, it may be a FOWLR by February...

I don't want to demean your problems, but you might try a FOWLR with zoanthids. I have a tank like that, and the beauty of it is that the zoos spread. You can then sell the offspring and the hobby becomes almost self sustaining. :biggrin:

[Aquattro]

Like I said above, it may be a FOWLR by February...


Maybe a nice FOWLRAZ - "and zoos."

:biggrin:

(I don't mean to be a smartass, or trivialize your plight, but it's just a thought.)

You think you're being a smartass, but in fact, this is a very real consideration. I really do like zoos, so who knows. :razz:

[Aquattro]

I don't want to demean your problems, but you might try a FOWLR with zoanthids. I have a tank like that, and the beauty of it is that the zoos spread.

But Bob, how would I start when there are no zoos locally for me to put in my tank?? :biggrin:

[trilinearmipmap]

OK here are some thoughts on this.

First of all to keep that type of anemone alive and thriving for so long is an achievement most people couldn't hope for, I would consider it a success and not a failure. The idea of a huge group of clowns hosting in that anemone I think deserves consideration, it would make a magnificent display. Another thought is that maybe after reaching a certain size these anemones become more predatory, if it is possible to make it split a few times (mechanically or by stressing it) you might have a more peaceful anemone as well as a few clones to sell, just a thought.

As far as losing an entire tank of corals it will happen to all of us sooner or later, it is the law of probabilities. Redundancy such as two half-powered heaters might help but eventually something will fail or a power outage will wipe out a tank. The best way around this IMO is an active network of people swapping frags, so if one person's tank got wiped out he could quickly restock his tank with frags from other hobbyists.

Anyway just my thoughts on this, my tank is young still and I know this will happen to me sooner or later.

[Bob I]

[quote=Bob_I]
I don't want to demean your problems, but you might try a FOWLR with zoanthids. I have a tank like that, and the beauty of it is that the zoos spread.

But Bob, how would I start when there are no zoos locally for me to put in my tank?? :biggrin:

Well I solved that by going the mail order route. There are lots available it is just a matter of finding them. I also think Christy has some, and Ocean Aquatics too. :biggrin:

[Aquattro]

Can you think of anyone else that has zoos?? :razz:

[G1GY]

Can you think of anyone else that has zoos?? :razz:

I know Bob has some! :eek: Because I just bought some from him! :biggrin:

[Delphinus]

You know I'm somewhat surprised that the Grammar Gendarme does not refer to them as "zoa's". I forget where I first heard that rant, "They're not ZOOANTHIDS they're ZOANTHIDS so why call them zoos? Zoos are places you might find zoas" (or some such). :razz:

TriLinear, thanks for your thoughts (and kind words regarding the amount of time I've kept it ... It's funny that one tends to forget or overlook the positives ... "guilty"). I am giving serious thought to the small-group/sharem idea, we'll see where that goes.

On an interesting side note, I feel it's an important distinction to note that it is not so much "predatory" as it is "highly defensive." It shows no interest in eating anything larger than mysis sized pieces.

As for the law of probabilities ... I think you're completely right. It really is a question of "when" not "if" and anyone who feels otherwise is probably naïve.

[AJ_77]

Grammar Gendarme
You mixed a hard and soft G sound here - therefore "Grammar Gendarme," while cutesy enough due to the mixing of French and English, must be disallowed... I'll talk to a mod... :wink:

As for the law of probabilities ... I think you're completely right. It really is a question of "when" not "if" and anyone who feels otherwise is probably naïve.
This is why I hold my breath for long stretches...

[Bob I]

You know I'm somewhat surprised that the Grammar Gendarme does not refer to them as "zoa's". I forget where I first heard that rant, "They're not ZOOANTHIDS they're ZOANTHIDS so why call them zoos? Zoos are places you might find zoas" (or some such). :razz:

I don't know if I would call that a rant, but let's explore this. (post padding :question: )

The first place I saw this controversy mentioned was in Eric Bourneman's "Mything the point". He stated (quite correctly) that we are talking about Zoanthids, not cutesy terms like "zoos", or indeed "zoas".
However, I don't see where Zoas is any more legitimate than Zoos. Both are equally wrong grammatically.
I myself use the word zoanthid, and zoos interchangeably(sp?). It depends if I want to be gramatically correct, or just go with the flow. :eek:

[LostMind]

I lost a mystery wrasse and a foxface today.

Both have been in quarantine for 6 weeks or so because the wrasse had developed a white *bump* on his belly. It was going down in size and both fish ate quite well... at least twice a day, sometimes 3x a day... a good variety of foods, clean tank, good flow, stable params...

and yet, both dead, for no apparent reason as the white bump that kept them in quarantine for an extra few weeks had gone away this weekend and I said to myself - I'll just give it a nother week before I put them in the big tank...

Also noticed 1 coral completely RTN'd overnight... it was about 4-5" across. 2 more corals are looking like they are ready to go as well.

Bah. But, I am still gonna get my bigger tank setup and keep my chunk of the ocean going... even though I am a bit upset with it all today.

[christyf5]

Brad if you want you can have all mine.

Seriously. Let me know.

Christy.

[StirCrazy]

Since this is turning into a zoo fest, I want to ask a question about the toxicity of zoo's, I remember a couple stories from Anthony Califo and also reading several articles about how toxic zoos are. could this make it hard to keep other types of corals in a tank with a bunch of zoos?

Steve

[Aquattro]

Brad if you want you can have all mine.

Seriously. Let me know.

Christy.

christy, I should perhaps drop by next time I'm in town. Which might be this wekend. I'll let you know, and thanks fo rthe offer.

[EmilyB]

I believe that some of us know where the local canreef term "zoos" came from, right Tony.... :razz:

[EmilyB]

Brad, I seriously wonder if you starved your tank. :confused:

I mean really, I must feed 6 times what you do. What did your corals eat if you fed so little to your fish?

Just a random thought.

[Aquattro]

Deb, I feed frozen cyclop-eeze to the corals. I actually fed more this year than the three before, and this is when I had more trouble. I know people with much nicer tanks than mine that almost don't feed ever. Their corals live off light and dissolved fish waste.
I actually see most of my colonies catching and consuming the cyclop-eeze, so I don't think that's it.

I need to add that it's only the acros that are doing poorly. The other corals are all doing very well, and the fish are very fat and happy.

I'm sure that now that I've finished mucking around, patience is all that's required to get things back on track. I think. Maybe. :razz:

[zulu_principle]

So I'll say it.

I only say that cause I have had many nights where I just dont understand the W'5 of the hobby. Fenner, Calfo, Borneman, Shimek, etc. whom I have had communication on many, many topics but....oh ya, and a few bucks.

This really sounds like a pity party.

Most of you have provided some of the best captive enviornments I have had the pleasure to witness in many tank tours in many cities.

Dont give up, Chin Up and "fragment & propagate".

Wendell

[Aquattro]

This really sounds like a pity party.



I think that's because it is. :razz: I am feeling sorry for myself, and I do think I deserve that pleasure right now. I've been fighting long and hard to keep things going. I'm going to have to continue fighting, just because of logistics, however, I'm also sure that I won't regret it in the end. As I said above somewhere, with some patience, my tank will turn around from this slide and start growing well again. I'm almost sure of it!! :razz:

My tank also has fish in it which are doing very well, and as family pets, they just can't be gotten rid of. I will persevere...

[AJ_77]

"Just keep swimming, just keep swimming..."

:biggrin:

[Beverly]

This really sounds like a pity party.



I think that's because it is. :razz: I am feeling sorry for myself, and I do think I deserve that pleasure right now.

When bad stuff happens, we have the right to feel PO-ed, frustrated, sad, depressed and all other not-so-great feeling there are.

I lost a fish a few weeks back and was I ever bummed the day it died :cry: And I don't apologize for that, either.

[marie]

Since this is turning into a zoo fest, I want to ask a question about the toxicity of zoo's, I remember a couple stories from Anthony Califo and also reading several articles about how toxic zoos are. could this make it hard to keep other types of corals in a tank with a bunch of zoos?

Steve
I have never noticed any problems, even when the zoo's are right up against another coral. I think the toxicity comes into play if they are eaten, or the juices end up in a cut or scrape.

[Fish]

Yes, I've read of zoanthids toxicity as being defensive as opposed to offensive. They need to be consumed to do the damage.

Brad,
I know it probably isn't much of a consolation but I do have some zoanthids that are fraggable. Also mushrooms, GSP, and even some pulsing xenia and colt if you can wait a little bit. I've been reading everyone's posts and have realized how furtunate I have been up 'till now. I think that sharing clones with others in the hobby is like insurance. That way no disaster can wipe out all your corals because all your corals aren't in one tank. I don't know...

Chad

[Fish]

I just started a different thread along those lines in the Lounge...

[StirCrazy]

I think that sharing clones with others in the hobby is like insurance. That way no disaster can wipe out all your corals because all your corals aren't in one tank. I don't know...

Chad

We were doing that.. just happened to crash at the same time. :rolleyes:

Steve

[Fish]

Dang! So much for that idea... I'll just go delete my other post... :razz:

[Buccaneer]

"Just keep swimming, just keep swimming..."

:biggrin:

just keep swimming, swimming, swimming :mrgreen:

Dory was awesome !

what were we talking about again ? :eek: :razz:

[dbdavid]

Hi Brad, sorry to hear about your Acro losses. There is nothing worse than helplessly watching your prized corals RTN.

Did you do the red bug treatment to your tank and if you did do you think that there may be a delayed reaction to the medication that may be causing some of your problems with just the Acros? Have you added any new Acros since you did the treatment and if so how are they doing?

Dave

[Aquattro]

Dave, I did the red bug treatment several months ago, but no, I don't feel that this has anything to do with it. I'm fairly confident that all th emucking around I've done is the source of my current issues, as all the non acro corals are doing very well. Acros, being a bit more sensitive, are affected more easily than other species.
I'm sure all I need now is time to recover. As for the red bug treatment, I know many others that have treated and not experienced any problems whatsoever.

Oh, and adding new acros. Yes, I have added new ones, with mixed results. Some are doing very well, others died.

[Doug]

I think you may be right Brad. Some established tanks of large acro colonies just dont seem to like being "mucked" with. Unfortunetely its needed many times, like in your case and somewhat mine.

One of my biggest problems and "taker away of enjoyment", is my living in the country. The lack of someone to watch over my tank is one of my main problems.

A smaller tank, with a lots less equipment may not scare some of my local friends so much. They look at my set up now, with all the equipment, cords, plug-ins and the such, and run for cover. :lol: