Advice about sumps

[molybdenumman]

I am eagerly awaiting setting up my new 90 gallon tank with a 20 gallon sump. The sump came with bioballs, but I have been cautioned against using them. I am hoping to get some more opinions on the subject.

Do you use bioballs? If not, what do you use?

Any advice or direction would be greatly appreciated.

DanTheMan

[Richer]

I don't use bioballs in my system. Filtration is done completely by my LR, skimmer and macro algae I have in my refuge.

-Richer

[trilinearmipmap]

Ditto.

I recommend the largest sump you can find, that or add on a refugium externally to your existing sump.

[Corey]

Bio balls dont hurt, they allow organisms to grow between them, if you have a lot of filter feeders I would say go for them.

[molybdenumman]

I have been told that they significantly increase nitrate levels in your tank. Has anyone observed this?

DanTheMan

[Richer]

I have been told that they significantly increase nitrate levels in your tank. Has anyone observed this?

DanTheMan

I've read that also... in fact, its probably one of the most consistant things that I've read about in this hobby. Bioballs trap debri, which eventually breakdown and produce nitrates. Bioballs could work if you are constantly cleaning them, but who wants to do that? :eek:
There's nothing wrong with them if you're just doing a FO, or FOWLR setup.

-Richer

[Cap'n]

I've often wondered about this claim. How is it that bioballs trap debris which leads to nitrate buildup while porous live rock does not?

Let's say, for example, you have a bunch of bioballs scattered throughout your rocks in the reef tank (nice picture, eh?). Would the balls be dirty clumps of nitrate crud beside a pristine, coralline covered live rock?

Seems to me it would come down to the microorganisms inhabiting the filter media. Which leads me to believe that they don't like plastic, if the bad bioballs claims are true.

Anybody have more details?

[Delphinus]

I always thought it was just a case of the bioballs were an aerobic zone and you need an anaerobic zone for nitrate reduction.

[Justin]

I always thought it was just a case of the bioballs were an aerobic zone and you need an anaerobic zone for nitrate reduction.

Kinda. Nitrate reduction can occur in aerobic zones. For simplicity sake, the bioballs house Nitrobacter, which produce nitrate as the end product of thier biological process.

However, some of the organisms in live rock further processes some of the Nitrate into Nitrogen gas. The gas difuses into the water, and escapes into the atmosphere, or sometimes collects within the sandbed (even shallow ones, in the upper aerobic zones) and escapes to the atmosphere when it is disturbed and rises. End result being lower (but not no) nitrate after nutrient minerilization.

Bioballs directly compete with live rock for the available nutrients thereby limiting the nutrients available to the organisms on the rock, obivously impeding thier growth.

Bioballs are highly effective at removing ammonia and nitrite, and in certain applications are necessary or provide a level of insurance. IE lots of bioload, not a lot of rock.

[StirCrazy]

I always thought it was just a case of the bioballs were an aerobic zone and you need an anaerobic zone for nitrate reduction.

there are actualy 3 different zones, if our tanks only had anarobic, and aerobic zones we would all be cool. the backteria that is responcable for nitrate break down lived primaraly in the anaerobic zone but is quite capable of functioning in the aerobic zone but art a reduced rate. aerobic being lots of air, anaerobic being low air.

the problem comes in when you have an anoxic (*SP) zone, it is where there is no air period and a different bacteria lives here that can take the nitrogen gas which is traped in pockets in the sand bed (which is harmless) and break it down further in to a sulfer gas byproduct which is the black pockets you see in deep sand beds that have been knowen to harm the tank when disturbed.

Bio balls only create an aerobic area, so they will do there jobe and turn amonit into nitrite then nitrate, but if that is all you have ie, no live rock, then it is going to be at a reduced capacity to turn that nitrate into nitrogen gas, which will make the nitrates go up.

Steve

[Delphinus]

Bio balls only create an aerobic area, so they will do there jobe and turn amonit into nitrite then nitrate, but if that is all you have ie, no live rock, then it is going to be at a reduced capacity to turn that nitrate into nitrogen gas, which will make the nitrates go up.


The thing is, even if you do have live rock, the LR itself will be a reduced capacity to reduce NO3 because the bioballs are competing againt the LR. Sorry if my explanation was a little too simple but I've been trying to be less wordy as I have been accused in the past of having long posts. :razz:

[StirCrazy]

The thing is, even if you do have live rock, the LR itself will be a reduced capacity to reduce NO3 because the bioballs are competing againt the LR.


well kinda not really in my opinion the liver rock with deeper pours and crevices will host a higher concentration of anaerobic bacteria which will handle the job of reducing the nitrates to N2.


Sorry if my explanation was a little too simple but I've been trying to be less wordy as I have been accused in the past of having long posts. :razz:

:eek: well I never, who would have said such a thing :mrgreen:

Steve

[molybdenumman]

So then what does everyone recommend that I use inside of my sump? Or do I need anything inside of there (other than filter media)?

[StirCrazy]

So then what does everyone recommend that I use inside of my sump? Or do I need anything inside of there (other than filter media)?

all I have in my sump is heaters, pumps and a float valve.. oh and that is where I also put my carbon.

Steve