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zhasan
01-03-2017, 04:56 AM
Hi All,

Due to limited space, I have to setup my water station in the garage. I live in Lac La Biche and temperature reaches 30 below and more during winter. This would certainly result in frozen RODI water in the barrel.

Is there a way I can keep RODI water in the garage without having to run a heater? would running a pump intermittently do the trick? Objective is to save cost while keeping ample water supply for top off and emergencies.

I'm curious to see how others manage this.

Thanks,

Zee

DKoKoMan
01-03-2017, 05:36 AM
I'm not too sure, you would need some serious circulation to keep the water from freezing in the barrel. As far as heat goes, I'm not sure if you can get away running a heater as the heat loss would be significant and the heater would run nonstop.

I'm sure some of the reefer gurus will come up with some alternatives if this cannot be accomplished. :biggrin:

Myka
01-03-2017, 02:52 PM
I think you'd need something like a pond or livestock trough heater and a pump. I don't think there is a way to do it energy efficiently. It would probably cost you less to go buy 5-gallon jugs at the grocery store. The other thing, are you planning to run the RO/DI in the garage too? If it freezes, it will crack.

Are you moved permanently to Lac La Biche? I could change your location for you.

Reef Pilot
01-03-2017, 04:08 PM
During the winter, instead of keeping rodi water on hand, why not produce the water just before you do the water change? I do that all the time anyways, as it only takes 1 day to produce enough rodi water for a water change. And just keep a bucket in the house, enough for evaporation replenishment.

I assume your rodi must be in the house, as no way it could work in -30.

ramasule
01-03-2017, 05:56 PM
You will need major insulation and heaters.

Best to do what Pilot said and make it before you need it.

My recommendation would be to get one of those hang on float valves and let it drain into a bucket that you are using that is sitting over a drain preferably.

https://www.amazon.com/Eshopps-AEO19085-Float-Valve-Aquarium/dp/B00BUFV2GK

SoloSK71
01-03-2017, 06:15 PM
Couple of options.

1) A large enough volume with sufficient motion may not freeze. You would have to do the calculations to double check.

2) Build an insulated "mini-shed" around the storage containers and combine it with the pump and you will need a lot less energy. Again, need to do some calculations to make sure.

3) The "mini-shed" plus a heater on a timer, just enough to keep from freezing.

All of this and you are still going to have to do a lot to heat the water up for any significant water change or top off.

Charles

lyall12
01-03-2017, 07:13 PM
Is the garage insulated and in use?

I'm in Calgary with an attached insulated garage. We don't have a heater of any sort in the garage, and nothing ever freezes in it. Heat transfer from the house and vehicle is always enough to keep it above freezing and melt snow/ice off of car overnight.

What about using a large cooler combined with a small heater?

I know some coolers can be very efficient at keeping temperatures stable. Some claim to keep ice solid for a week. Throw a small heater in and you may be set indefinitely.

zhasan
01-07-2017, 06:56 AM
During the winter, instead of keeping rodi water on hand, why not produce the water just before you do the water change? I do that all the time anyways, as it only takes 1 day to produce enough rodi water for a water change. And just keep a bucket in the house, enough for evaporation replenishment.

I assume your rodi must be in the house, as no way it could work in -30.

I thought of that.. but I fear the time when I need to do a sudden water change. My RODI takes forever to produce too..


Couple of options.

1) A large enough volume with sufficient motion may not freeze. You would have to do the calculations to double check.

2) Build an insulated "mini-shed" around the storage containers and combine it with the pump and you will need a lot less energy. Again, need to do some calculations to make sure.

3) The "mini-shed" plus a heater on a timer, just enough to keep from freezing.

All of this and you are still going to have to do a lot to heat the water up for any significant water change or top off.

Charles

Thanks Charles. Agree with all your points. Have considered building an insulated closet in the garage.

zhasan
01-07-2017, 06:59 AM
I think you'd need something like a pond or livestock trough heater and a pump. I don't think there is a way to do it energy efficiently. It would probably cost you less to go buy 5-gallon jugs at the grocery store. The other thing, are you planning to run the RO/DI in the garage too? If it freezes, it will crack.

Are you moved permanently to Lac La Biche? I could change your location for you.

The plan is to run the RO/DI in the garage. The garage is insulated however it get pretty darn cold in there to the point where things start freezing.

I'm also looking at the possibility of running the RO/DI inside the house and run the line from the wall out to the garage.

Yes, please update my location. The move is permanent for the foreseeable future.

zhasan
01-07-2017, 07:06 AM
Is the garage insulated and in use?

I'm in Calgary with an attached insulated garage. We don't have a heater of any sort in the garage, and nothing ever freezes in it. Heat transfer from the house and vehicle is always enough to keep it above freezing and melt snow/ice off of car overnight.

What about using a large cooler combined with a small heater?

I know some coolers can be very efficient at keeping temperatures stable. Some claim to keep ice solid for a week. Throw a small heater in and you may be set indefinitely.

You've given me something to think about and work with here.

Garage is insulated.

It is in use. I park my car inside and the snow is gone by the morning.

After reading your post I paid attention to the floor and the water is not frozen or icy.

What I've noticed is that.. I have a bottle of Olive oil that seems frozen or atleast by the looks of it.. maybe its just curdy now. The pop cans don't freeze at all but they are chilled to the maxx.

I'm thinking If I insulate the water containers and build a small insulated cabinet for the RO/DI I may be able to get away in the -30 plus weather.

SeaHorse_Fanatic
01-07-2017, 07:15 AM
I have a friend in Powell River who built an insulated wooden box outside for his sump and water change system. Since it's well insulated, its had never had any temperature issues, (neither too hot nor too cold). Something like this would be ideal for use in your garage or outdoor space. He stained the wooden box so it looks nice and not ghetto.

Anthony

lyall12
01-07-2017, 01:01 PM
You've given me something to think about and work with here.

Garage is insulated.

It is in use. I park my car inside and the snow is gone by the morning.

After reading your post I paid attention to the floor and the water is not frozen or icy.

What I've noticed is that.. I have a bottle of Olive oil that seems frozen or atleast by the looks of it.. maybe its just curdy now. The pop cans don't freeze at all but they are chilled to the maxx.

I'm thinking If I insulate the water containers and build a small insulated cabinet for the RO/DI I may be able to get away in the -30 plus weather.


If the snow/ice is melting off your car over night, you're all set I think.

I've got cases of water, juice, etc out there. And it never freezes, even when near the main door. Makes a great beer fridge. ;)

You can probably get away with storing without freezing. Especially if you add a small pump for movement.

The water will likely be near freezing during the winter. It would take a bit of effort to get it up to temp for water changes, but doable if you bring what you need inside first.

If you're putting the ro/di unit in the garage you'll definitely want to insulate it. The ro membrane is less efficient at colder temperatures. I lose at least 10%-15% production with the rodi in the house just from the change in incoming water temp in the winter. I know some people run the water line through a sort of heat exchanger before the rodi in the winter, or carefully tie in hot water as well.

Myka
01-07-2017, 02:05 PM
One of my clients has the same sort of setup, and buckets of water freeze in there even when they're up against the house wall when it's about -25 even though the snow melts off the cars.

Using a cooler is a good idea though, and may be a good solution.

SoloSK71
01-08-2017, 04:11 AM
Another option that we use around dredges and barges is aerators for de-icing. They use a lot less energy than heaters. A good size air pump and some ait stones might work as well.

Charles