Lowering alk

[Galizio]

I'm filling my new tank with all brand new saltwater, and pretty sure I'll need to lower the alk before transfer everything over. I use the io reef crystal, still in the process of mixing , don't know what the alk is going to be by the time I'm done but I'll like to get my alk at 7, same as the tank I'm running at the moment...
I read about the muriatic acid and just wondering if there is another way or product to get the same result or if the acid is the easier way will like to hear it from someone that already did it or still do.
Thank you


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[dcw1sfu]

I'm filling my new tank with all brand new saltwater, and pretty sure I'll need to lower the alk before transfer everything over. I use the io reef crystal, still in the process of mixing , don't know what the alk is going to be by the time I'm done but I'll like to get my alk at 7, same as the tank I'm running at the moment...
I read about the muriatic acid and just wondering if there is another way or product to get the same result or if the acid is the easier way will like to hear it from someone that already did it or still do.
Thank you


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Not aware of another product that will lower alk. I have used muratic acid in the past and it's extremely effective and easy to use.

Nowadays I just use aquaforest salt that I'd close to 7 alkaline though.

[Galizio]

Not aware of another product that will lower alk. I have used muratic acid in the past and it's extremely effective and easy to use.



Nowadays I just use aquaforest salt that I'd close to 7 alkaline though.



Probiotic salt?
I was looking on Amazon but didn't wanted to wait 2-4 weeks for the shipping, also if I mix with that salt I could not be able to transfer right away.... It's a nice product and eventually going to switch over slowly I guess.
Probably going to Home Depot or Rona for now and get a litre of muriatic acid .
Thank you


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[intarsiabox]

Probiotic salt?
I was looking on Amazon but didn't wanted to wait 2-4 weeks for the shipping, also if I mix with that salt I could not be able to transfer right away

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Shipping is more like 2-4 days, the salt is in stock. I use the AF Reef salt and my current bucket mixes at 7.4 Alk.

[Galizio]

Shipping is more like 2-4 days, the salt is in stock. I use the AF Reef salt and my current bucket mixes at 7.4 Alk.



Ah, didn't know, 2-4 days is not bad, well is too late now for that ...also still had a bucket and 1/2 at home of the reef crystal, I kinda want to use it first then I can do a switch...
For now I just use the acid. There is a formula for the muriatic acid?


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[duncangweller]

If you go to Canadian tire muriatic acid is $14 a gallon. In Langley its in aisle 53 with the paint and paint strippers.

[Galizio]

If you go to Canadian tire muriatic acid is $14 a gallon. In Langley its in aisle 53 with the paint and paint strippers.



Thanks Dunc,
Going to hd shortly....


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[intarsiabox]

Ah, didn't know, 2-4 days is not bad, well is too late now for that ...also still had a bucket and 1/2 at home of the reef crystal, I kinda want to use it first then I can do a switch...
For now I just use the acid. There is a formula for the muriatic acid?


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Nothing wrong with reef crystals, I've used it for a few years now without issue. To be honest the main reason for switching salt is the AF is cheaper than RC and about the same price as IO is here, plus it's shipped to my door step.

[TimT]

Muriatic acid is diluted HCl.

Always add it to water and NEVER water to it.

Open the jug in a well ventilated room. Sometimes it makes smoke... don't breath the smoke.

As a precaution I add a chlorine neutralizer if I need to use the water immediately. If not I let it sit for a day or two.

[Galizio]

Muriatic acid is diluted HCl.



Always add it to water and NEVER water to it.



Open the jug in a well ventilated room. Sometimes it makes smoke... don't breath the smoke.



As a precaution I add a chlorine neutralizer if I need to use the water immediately. If not I let it sit for a day or two.



I found some at Canadian tires , cause Home Depot doesn't not have the product anymore.
I was planning to fill up the tank with saltwater, measure the alk and then add the acid to get the alk at 7.
Is it safe to add the acid directly to the tank?
Is going to be nothing in the tank just some equipment, no live stock or rocks.
Going to add the acid slowly, as soon the tank is full


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[emerald crab]

Rona carries muriatic acid(HCl).

[Tyfighter]

I would mix the with some ro water first in a bucket outside. You will get some gassing off and it's pretty toxic and smells like rotten eggs when you add larger amounts at a time. Watch for splashing too it will burn and skin and ruin the carpet.
Good luck!

[Galizio]

Rona carries muriatic acid(HCl).



Thanx, I found it a Canadian tire. Hopefully don't have to use this stuff anymore:-)


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[Galizio]

I would mix the with some ro water first in a bucket outside. You will get some gassing off and it's pretty toxic and smells like rotten eggs when you add larger amounts at a time. Watch for splashing too it will burn and skin and ruin the carpet.

Good luck!



That's a good idea , most likely have to use a large amount just to drop 1 dhk , was reading about .123 L per gallon . I'm just wondering if is going to affect the equipment, I just have power heads, heater , return pump and skimmer.
Thanks


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[GoFish]

That's a good idea , most likely have to use a large amount just to drop 1 dhk , was reading about .123 L per gallon . I'm just wondering if is going to affect the equipment, I just have power heads, heater , return pump and skimmer.
Thanks.

That's wayyyyy to much!
It only takes 1/11000th of the water volume to drop the Alk by 2.8dkh
You can thank Randy Holmes Farley for that equation (look up "lowering alkalinity with acid" on RC post #3). So if your tank is filled without rock and is 105 gallons (397 litres) you'd need 1/11000th of that volume which would be 39.7ml to lower the dkh by 2.8. I'd first figure out how much water you have and what your Alk is for the new water then go from there.

[Galizio]

That's wayyyyy to much!

It only takes 1/11000th of the water volume to drop the Alk by 2.8dkh

You can thank Randy Holmes Farley for that equation (look up "lowering alkalinity with acid" on RC post #3). So if your tank is filled without rock and is 105 gallons (397 litres) you'd need 1/11000th of that volume which would be 39.7ml to lower the dkh by 2.8. I'd first figure out how much water you have and what your Alk is for the new water then go from there.



Great, I just took a quick look on that, that's way better lol... Going to take a read on it. Still making saltwater , so when done with that I can figure it out the water volume, then test the alk and do proper adjustment .

Thanks for the info ,


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[Myka]

When I used H2Ocean I would lower the alkalinity using muriatic acid prior to doing water changes. Be aware that it DRAMATICALLY lowers pH for several hours because the reaction creates CO2. pH will rise back up, but you can't use the water for several hours. Muriatic acids only affects alkalinity and pH.

My buckets of H2Ocean would start around 9.0 dKH, I added 7 mL muriatic acid to 17 gallons of saltwater, and that lowered the alkalinity to about 7.5 dKH. I would suggest you test alkalinity, add a half dose, wait an hour, test again, and see how much more you need to add. Do you have a digital pH meter? You should check pH before adding livestock to the tank as will probably be down in the 6's after you dose. Don't bother with a pH test kit though - it's not good enough. Just make sure the water is in the high 7's before you add livestock.

Btw, provided you don't grossly overdose, it won't hurt your equipment. You won't actually see any changes visually. As mentioned though, it will produce a small whiff of vapor when you open the bottle and also when you add it to the tank - don't breathe it. If you open the windows in the house it will help bring the pH up and will clear that vapor quick too. If you point the powerheads towards the water surface that will help bring the pH up faster too by helping to off-gas the CO2.

[Galizio]

When I used H2Ocean I would lower the alkalinity using muriatic acid prior to doing water changes. Be aware that it DRAMATICALLY lowers pH for several hours because the reaction creates CO2. pH will rise back up, but you can't use the water for several hours. Muriatic acids only affects alkalinity and pH.

My buckets of H2Ocean would start around 9.0 dKH, I added 7 mL muriatic acid to 17 gallons of saltwater, and that lowered the alkalinity to about 7.5 dKH. I would suggest you test alkalinity, add a half dose, wait an hour, test again, and see how much more you need to add. Do you have a digital pH meter? You should check pH before adding livestock to the tank as will probably be down in the 6's after you dose. Don't bother with a pH test kit though - it's not good enough. Just make sure the water is in the high 7's before you add livestock.

Btw, provided you don't grossly overdose, it won't hurt your equipment. You won't actually see any changes visually. As mentioned though, it will produce a small whiff of vapor when you open the bottle and also when you add it to the tank - don't breathe it. If you open the windows in the house it will help bring the pH up and will clear that vapor quick too. If you point the powerheads towards the water surface that will help bring the pH up faster too by helping to off-gas the CO2.



Thanks Mika,
I don't have an extra ph monitor, but I'm not going to add any livestock soon, I'm just finishing filling up the tank with new water, then I can check the alk....
My daughter is sick at the moment so is going to take a bit longer, but have no rush anyways....


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[dino]

Just a word of caution I use muriatic and hydrochloride acid everyday and safety is really important. I have to wear a respirator and banana suit. So be safe and avoid getting it on concrete also

[Galizio]

Just a word of caution I use muriatic and hydrochloride acid everyday and safety is really important. I have to wear a respirator and banana suit. So be safe and avoid getting it on concrete also



Thanks Dino, yes is really dangerous ,
Is a lot of water volume ... Kinda scared to do it :-)


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[gregzz4]

Hey Mindy
Have you tested Ca before and after using Muriatic?

I ask as I'm curious to know how much the Chloride levels increase as Alk drops

Also, most of us can't get our hands on Hydrochloric Acid, which is purer than Muriatic, and I'm concerned about the impurities present in MA. Muriatic contains ( among other stuff ) iron, so I wouldn't want to use it on a regular basis to adjust my mixed salt water.

Still, I'd like to know what your results are.
I ask as I'm nearing completion of my post-tank failure setup and am looking for options to deal with 115+G of IO regular salt with it's high Alk.
Only natural option I can think of at this time is to raise the Alk level in the tank containing my surviving corals before adding them to the new setup.
Then I'd let the Alk drop over time and go from there.

I've read an article from RHF (http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/6/chemistry) that has me hesitant to use MA on a regular basis.

Another article he published (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-03/rhf/#7) has info on dealing with pH, but without indepth reading, I didn't see any results pertaining to Chloride.

These are the most recent articles I can find online ...

Thanks for your thoughts :wink:

[gregzz4]

OK, I couldn't wait for answers, so I came up with my own ..

Greg's formula for dosing Muriatic Acid to lower alkalinity (http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=120752)

[Myka]

Hey Mindy
Have you tested Ca before and after using Muriatic?

I ask as I'm curious to know how much the Chloride levels increase as Alk drops

Also, most of us can't get our hands on Hydrochloric Acid, which is purer than Muriatic, and I'm concerned about the impurities present in MA. Muriatic contains ( among other stuff ) iron, so I wouldn't want to use it on a regular basis to adjust my mixed salt water.

No, I never tested Ca after using MA as I didn't think it was a concern. When I asked about MA affecting other parameters Randy told me that pH is the only concern.

Muriatic acid drops pH temporarily until you fully aerate. Many people do it with salt mixes and there are threads around. It also eliminates the CaCO3 precipitate from IO. Otherwise, it doesn't alter the chemistry.