My Tank crash - Hopefully you can learn from my experience :(

[loumaggs]

My Tank crash - Hopefully you can learn from my experience :(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RC1MXVUFN50

[soapy]

Well thats sad to hear.

A few questions out of curiosity,

How long was the power out? 4hrs?

What is you total system volume?

How many fish?

How did the inverts fair and which ones do you have if any?

[brisco]

I do have a battery back-up on of my Gyre recirc pumps which should keep things going for apox 36 hours at 30% flow. I hope this would be enough until I could get to the tank as I am away a lot. For longer outages I picked up a small gas generator but that would require me to be home to set it up. It has enough capacity to run everything in the tank. I guess that in the short term my hope is that the tank temp would drop slowly enough in the winter and rise slowly enough in the summer so that temp isn't a big issue but that is only a hope...don't want to ever test my set up for real. Very sad video, and I can tell that it was hard for you to make but thank-you for doing it.

[Scythanith]

Shitty deal. That's a nightmare of mine for sure. I have the battery back ups on my mp40's as well as a natural gas fireplace in my basement which will kick in even if the power is out and keep the basement warm. On top of that I have a couple D cell battery powered air pumps with air stones on the end that I could add to the tank. Those only work if I am there and awake. The battery backups work automatically.

Sorry for your losses, they looked cool!

[shrimp]

shady

[Animal-Chin]

I purchased a battery powered air pump with bubble stone at Caballas a few years ago. It's to keep your live well oxegenated when your fishing. It's saved my butt a couple of times. My tank lost power for 48 hours once and I didn't loose a thing, all it cost me was some d batteries to keep the bubbler going. Everyone should have one to keep your tank oxegenated and the water moving...

[shiftline]

So sorry to hear that. Hopefully it doesn't discourage you from the hobby

I had a tank crack one and it was a chaotic/traumatic experience but thankfully I was home

[hfp75]

My apex would send an email & txt when communication is lost......

Then I have T - however long to get my inverter running....

I had the power go out like 3 years ago for 4 or 5 hours and everything was fine (I was on vacation when it happened and my tank sitter was unaware). I think it depends on a few factors.....

Number and size of fish, volume of water & outside / room temp..... As well have a back flow / check valve so your tank doesn't all run into a sump that can't handle the increased volume.

[Scythanith]

I find check valves will fail the second they get fouled up a bit. I'd rather have the sump system designed to hold the total volume in the event of a pump outage.

[soapy]

+1

[IanWR]

I watched the linked video. I think at this point I'm comfortable calling out the OP as someone making a concerted effort at fame and fortune. She may have a reef tank, she may or may not have had the crash described, but I have the creepy feeling of being scammed.

She does posts like this here and on RC that I know of; starts a thread that invites attention always with a link to some video she's made. The information is always super basic, and occasionally questionable. For example, in this video she suggests that after 1 hour without power the O2 levels crashed to the point that most of her fish died. I highly doubt that the tank pictured in the video would suffer that effect after 1 hour. She also suggests that after an hour without power the bacteria would start dieting off. Please. She also says the temp dropped to 22 (from what she doesn't say though) in 4 hours. The tank pictured is big. Unless the house was freezing that's pretty fast to cool off. And even if it did, 22 is not that cold. It's not ideal, but fish would be fine. Then she says she tore the rock apart to get the fish bodies she couldn't scoop up with a net, including a scooter blenny? That makes no sense. Who here would tear up their 180+g tank to scoop out a fish body you couldn't find?

She ends her video with a really unconvincing suggestion that she's so affected by this tragedy her future in the hobby is uncertain, with the shameless suggestion to stay tuned to the next video to hear what her decision is! Helpfully included in her comments on the video is a link to a site where you can give her cash.

This OP never engages in these threads beyond the first post. This is not someone seeking to share or engage with like minded hobbyists. This is someone looking for attention and money.

[hfp75]

I don't trust check valves either, but some tanks require one & they need to be acid soaked frequently to ensure they are clean...

[rsisvixen]

I agree, seems fishy (pardon the pun)
We were without power for 66 hours last year, my temp dropped from 26-22 over a period of 12 hours (this was in fall so ambient temp wasn't too cold )
Since then we've had another 3 power outs (gotta love these windstorms) and I've had the tank dip to 15 over winter-everything made it through no trouble. As long as the change is gradual your livestock will adapt.

[reef-keeper]

I had an electrician wire in a generator plug and bought a big generator that will run my whole house. Plus I'm looking into solar power panels as well.

[Dearth]

To the people here doubting I am willing to give the benefit of doubt as Depending on what is in the tank I have read and watched on youtube (In fast time of course) tanks that crashed in a matter of hours to those that took 2 or 3 days to crash.

Most of us have experienced some sort of tank crash at some point in our career hell I've lost count the amount of fish and coral I've lost through various means including crashes

Shiiit happens we deal with it and hopefully rebuild

[Treebeard]

I tend to agree with Ian. I have watched the OPs YouTube videos and the fact that she started the thread and never came back to post again makes me suspect that it is all about hits to her YouTube channel. I do feel bad that she may have had a tank crash, however I am wondering why she has not been back.

[ComfortablyNumb]

I agree with Treebeard and Ian. And don't even bother to post questions for her like the guy on the first page did. She's posts her vids on about 75 other sites around the world, from Singapore to London. All with links to her donation page.

[Bblinks]

We had a 48 hours power outage and my tank was out of power for 12 hours before I put the pumps back on, unfortunately I can only run the pumps and the water temp dropped to 21 degrees and everthing still made it through....not sure if ammonia would set in that just 3-4 hours. It just doesn't make sense....even all my Sps pulled through and I have a lot of Sps with abandonce of fish. Obviously what happened to ops tank is heartbreaking and I feel bad for her but this is the hobby we have chosen, never said it was gonna be easy. Brush it off and start again, it's kinda fun to restock anyways, probably a good time to have a backup plan too....🙊

[Cabinetman]

I agree. Something ain't right. I don't doubt she had a mass die off but I don't thing 4 hours without power did it. I've got 3 times the bioload and I've had power go out for half a day before and I lost nothing. Id like to know what really happened.

[Jordon]

My jaw was dropped the entire video in sadness of what happened, until she said to check out her next video to find out her decision! That second I was like... Mmmmm No.

No doubt she posted this for the views and revenue from YouTube. That and nearly all the forums and then never responds as others have mentioned.

[kien]

This OP never engages in these threads beyond the first post.

This has been my experience too. I asked the OP a few questions on their Copperbanded Butterfly thread and got crickets. I suspect you'll get crickets in this thread too. By all means, discuss among yourselves but don't expect the OP to be involved in the discussion :neutral: It's too bad really. I'm normally foruming on my tiny phone screen so I don't want to watch YouTube videos. I would rather read and discuss the topic.

My tank has lost power quite a few times in the past 7 years. The longest it was without power continuously without supplemental intervention (backup power/generator) was probably 24 hours. Tank never crashed. Corals and fish weren't happy but the entire system didn't.. wait for it.. .. tank (pun intended).

[gmann]

this video freaked me out. Just wondering how popular/ useful are those back up battery packs that lfs sell to run your powerhead at 35% for "X" hours?

BTW I too have looked at the posters videos online. I find it funny she had to make/ post a video titled "exactly how rich am I"

guess she got a lot of haters lol

[Scythanith]

I just want to be clear, and I'm 98% sure everyone else feels the same way, that I feel devistated for her loss! It totally sucks and is a gut wrenching feeling to know something went wrong with your system.

The social media hustle is quite apparently a part of her thing and so be it. People become rich off social media nowadays, good on her for trying. But to string people along and draw out our sympathy into another video view is pretty rough. I for one can honestly say I will not click on a loumaggs post on any forum I see now. I have zero hate for loumaggs, I just don't want to be a part of that process more than I already have been.

Peace

[WarDog]

There are far more educated and experienced reef keepers on YouTube that I DON'T watch.

[Reeferluke]

There are far more educated and experienced reef keepers on YouTube that I DON'T watch.

+1

[kien]

I just want to be clear, and I'm 98% sure everyone else feels the same way, that I feel devistated for her loss! It totally sucks and is a gut wrenching feeling to know something went wrong with your system.

The social media hustle is quite apparently a part of her thing and so be it. People become rich off social media nowadays, good on her for trying. But to string people along and draw out our sympathy into another video view is pretty rough. I for one can honestly say I will not click on a loumaggs post on any forum I see now. I have zero hate for loumaggs, I just don't want to be a part of that process more than I already have been.

Peace

Yup, pretty much.

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Personally, I have no problems with any of these videos.

Also, when I had a devastating tank crash due to a Marine Velvet outbreak, it took the heart out of me with regards to this addiction. I was ready to throw in the towel. But I didn't make a hasty decision when I was feeling devastated by the losses. Instead, I took some time out to think if I still had it in me to continue. It was actually my wife who encouraged me to take a bit of a break and try again. For the OP, stating that she hasn't made up her mind whether or not to restock and start over after this massive tank wipeout is the same situation I went through (although I'm not a YouTube kinda guy). If she has a lot of "online followers" then its a logical step to state that she will make her decision later and post it on a future video. How else would someone who posts videos online regularly do it? If I usually text my ideas or opinions to my fishie friends, then I would text that I will let them know by text once I make up my mind on a fairly significant decision. So to me, this is the same thing, except she does things by video. I don't see anything "sinister" in mentioning at the end of this video that she'll let everyone know her final decision in a future vid.

For the record, I have posted on some of her earlier videos and the OP did respond back both by post and PMs. If she posts links to her videos on 75 forums (as another member stated earlier) I'm sure its a very time consuming chore to respond to every thread on every forum. I am only on BCAquaria and Canreef (regularly in terms of fish forums) and its sometimes not easy to keep up with everything going on with just two forums. I believe she's in the UK so Canreef is a foreign site to her, so one she will less likely to post on or visit as regularly as UK fish sites.

BTW, I have read a lot of threads on both my "home" forums where someone posts a question or opinion in a new thread and never responds back to follow up postings, so again, not a big deal. Why get offended or consider try to find something sinister behind it? Seems a waste of energy to me, since lots of members are more lurkers than posters. After all, I belong to a citrus growers forum which I visit occasionally and it is often weeks between posts for me on that forum, since its not one of my main "home" forums.

Also, if my tank was just wiped out, the last thing I would be doing is deciding if I should still buy a Copperband Butterfly fish, which are notoriously tricky to keep under optimal conditions.

Just my opinion.

Anybody who doesn't want to watch any future videos by the OP is following their own inclinations and opinions. Just seemed the comments on this thread were becoming too one-sided for me to stand on the sidelines and not post my own comments.

loumaggs, hope this tank crash does not discourage you from resetting up your system, but with more backups to prevent future problems.

Anthony

[Dearth]

Well said Anthony

[loumaggs]

Well thats sad to hear.

A few questions out of curiosity,

How long was the power out? 4hrs? Slightly more

What is you total system volume? 1100 litres

How many fish? Too many apparently

How did the inverts fair and which ones do you have if any? Fine until ammonia spike


Answered above

[loumaggs]

My apex would send an email & txt when communication is lost......

Then I have T - however long to get my inverter running....

I had the power go out like 3 years ago for 4 or 5 hours and everything was fine (I was on vacation when it happened and my tank sitter was unaware). I think it depends on a few factors.....

Number and size of fish, volume of water & outside / room temp..... As well have a back flow / check valve so your tank doesn't all run into a sump that can't handle the increased volume.

Apex is something I'll look into if I do continue

[loumaggs]

Personally, I have no problems with any of these videos.

Also, when I had a devastating tank crash due to a Marine Velvet outbreak, it took the heart out of me with regards to this addiction. I was ready to throw in the towel. But I didn't make a hasty decision when I was feeling devastated by the losses. Instead, I took some time out to think if I still had it in me to continue. It was actually my wife who encouraged me to take a bit of a break and try again. For the OP, stating that she hasn't made up her mind whether or not to restock and start over after this massive tank wipeout is the same situation I went through (although I'm not a YouTube kinda guy). If she has a lot of "online followers" then its a logical step to state that she will make her decision later and post it on a future video. How else would someone who posts videos online regularly do it? If I usually text my ideas or opinions to my fishie friends, then I would text that I will let them know by text once I make up my mind on a fairly significant decision. So to me, this is the same thing, except she does things by video. I don't see anything "sinister" in mentioning at the end of this video that she'll let everyone know her final decision in a future vid.

For the record, I have posted on some of her earlier videos and the OP did respond back both by post and PMs. If she posts links to her videos on 75 forums (as another member stated earlier) I'm sure its a very time consuming chore to respond to every thread on every forum. I am only on BCAquaria and Canreef (regularly in terms of fish forums) and its sometimes not easy to keep up with everything going on with just two forums. I believe she's in the UK so Canreef is a foreign site to her, so one she will less likely to post on or visit as regularly as UK fish sites.

BTW, I have read a lot of threads on both my "home" forums where someone posts a question or opinion in a new thread and never responds back to follow up postings, so again, not a big deal. Why get offended or consider try to find something sinister behind it? Seems a waste of energy to me, since lots of members are more lurkers than posters. After all, I belong to a citrus growers forum which I visit occasionally and it is often weeks between posts for me on that forum, since its not one of my main "home" forums.

Also, if my tank was just wiped out, the last thing I would be doing is deciding if I should still buy a Copperband Butterfly fish, which are notoriously tricky to keep under optimal conditions.

Just my opinion.

Anybody who doesn't want to watch any future videos by the OP is following their own inclinations and opinions. Just seemed the comments on this thread were becoming too one-sided for me to stand on the sidelines and not post my own comments.

loumaggs, hope this tank crash does not discourage you from resetting up your system, but with more backups to prevent future problems.

Anthony

Thank you Anthony, it's a very sad day when you film something and people still don't believe you... I received around 150 messages from various social media sites everyday and 95% I reply to. I've had 300 messages of,support on that video and every messages I've replied to. It's almost a full time job

[kien]

Thank you Anthony, it's a very sad day when you film something and people still don't believe you... I received around 150 messages from various social media sites everyday and 95% I reply to. I've had 300 messages of,support on that video and every messages I've replied to. It's almost a full time job

Sorry to hear about your loss. It sucks to go through something like that. So what are you plans moving forward?

[kien]

Thank you Anthony, it's a very sad day when you film something and people still don't believe you... I received around 150 messages from various social media sites everyday and 95% I reply to. I've had 300 messages of,support on that video and every messages I've replied to. It's almost a full time job

And it's gracious of you to come in and reply to Anthony's post. That's much appreciated. There are however a few other posts before his with various questions posted that I myself am interested in hear the answer to if you have time to answer them?

[Scythanith]

Thank you Anthony, it's a very sad day when you film something and people still don't believe you... I received around 150 messages from various social media sites everyday and 95% I reply to. I've had 300 messages of,support on that video and every messages I've replied to. It's almost a full time job

I don't think anyone is doubting the legitimacy of your tank loss. Everyone is very sympathetic toward you about that :) I hope you get back on the seahorse and carry on with the hobby.

[Bblinks]

Personally, I have no problems with any of these videos.

Also, when I had a devastating tank crash due to a Marine Velvet outbreak, it took the heart out of me with regards to this addiction. I was ready to throw in the towel. But I didn't make a hasty decision when I was feeling devastated by the losses. Instead, I took some time out to think if I still had it in me to continue. It was actually my wife who encouraged me to take a bit of a break and try again. For the OP, stating that she hasn't made up her mind whether or not to restock and start over after this massive tank wipeout is the same situation I went through (although I'm not a YouTube kinda guy). If she has a lot of "online followers" then its a logical step to state that she will make her decision later and post it on a future video. How else would someone who posts videos online regularly do it? If I usually text my ideas or opinions to my fishie friends, then I would text that I will let them know by text once I make up my mind on a fairly significant decision. So to me, this is the same thing, except she does things by video. I don't see anything "sinister" in mentioning at the end of this video that she'll let everyone know her final decision in a future vid.

For the record, I have posted on some of her earlier videos and the OP did respond back both by post and PMs. If she posts links to her videos on 75 forums (as another member stated earlier) I'm sure its a very time consuming chore to respond to every thread on every forum. I am only on BCAquaria and Canreef (regularly in terms of fish forums) and its sometimes not easy to keep up with everything going on with just two forums. I believe she's in the UK so Canreef is a foreign site to her, so one she will less likely to post on or visit as regularly as UK fish sites.

BTW, I have read a lot of threads on both my "home" forums where someone posts a question or opinion in a new thread and never responds back to follow up postings, so again, not a big deal. Why get offended or consider try to find something sinister behind it? Seems a waste of energy to me, since lots of members are more lurkers than posters. After all, I belong to a citrus growers forum which I visit occasionally and it is often weeks between posts for me on that forum, since its not one of my main "home" forums.

Also, if my tank was just wiped out, the last thing I would be doing is deciding if I should still buy a Copperband Butterfly fish, which are notoriously tricky to keep under optimal conditions.

Just my opinion.

Anybody who doesn't want to watch any future videos by the OP is following their own inclinations and opinions. Just seemed the comments on this thread were becoming too one-sided for me to stand on the sidelines and not post my own comments.

loumaggs, hope this tank crash does not discourage you from resetting up your system, but with more backups to prevent future problems.

Anthony

I totally understand what you are saying, it's not that we don't believe this happened just can't rationalize why it happened in such a short time. I have personally been through countless power outages and the longest one was about 10 years ago where we lost power for three days straight and my tank had no alternate aid for the same duration and when the power came back on I still made it through with all my fishes.

I think we would like to get some more info on why and how this all happened, there is got to be something else that caused this and not just a few hours of power outage. We all love this hobby and that'why we use our hard earned money to ensure all inhabitant live happy and well. I would do anything to avoid a disaster and I think that goes for everyone who had questions so we can examine exactly what caused it, OP needs to answer a few questions on here so we can investigate and some how come to a collaborated conclusion which should help her and help us in the long run.

[Bblinks]

I don't think anyone is doubting the legitimacy of your tank loss. Everyone is very sympathetic toward you about that :) I hope you get back on the seahorse and carry on with the hobby.

Get back on the seahorse.....hahahahah:mrgreen:

[Animal-Chin]

Last night I got home from work and my Cali Tort was 3/4s bleached/dead. I thought "maybe I should quit reefing" for a moment or two...lol I can't imagine a total tank wipe out, must be devastating.

Louise has a place in the youtube reef world. She may not be hardcore like some of the guy reefers who do video's like scientists but her vids have a place like anything else. I enjoy watching from time to time and if I learn something, bonus!

[ComfortablyNumb]

loumaggs: did someone advise you that there were negative posts here? Is that why you came back so quickly? Previously, you hardly ever responded to your own threads or questions in them..is why I'm asking.

There have been some legitimate questions posted as to how your tank crashed so quickly...no one here seems to have experienced anything like that, despite almost all of us having experienced power outages, many of far greater duration in tanks much more heavy loaded than yours.

We're not saying it didn't happen of course, its just your explanation of why it happened seems rather unusual (tank ran out of o2 in an hour or so) compared to anyone here's experience.

Again, not to say it didn't happen like you said it did, but if you are going to hold yourself out as an expert while soliciting donations from us, you must expect questions like these.

*edit* My sympathies for your loss...nobody enjoys seeing beautiful fish like that die.

[Scythanith]

Get back on the seahorse.....hahahahah:mrgreen:

:biggrin:

[kien]

and there is a perfectly good reason why this thread (and others like it) are completely one sided. It's because the "other side" isn't here to help contribute to the discussion. Even though the "other side" was here, the "other side" still chose not to take that opportunity contribute to the discussion that they started. :neutral:

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Kien,

These questions were answered.

"How long was the power out? 4hrs? Slightly more

What is you total system volume? 1100 litres

How many fish? Too many apparently

How did the inverts fair and which ones do you have if any? Fine until ammonia spike"



BTW, in case anybody bothered to check (which I did before I posted), the OP was NOT on Canreef since the 15th, when the original post was made, until she responded to yesterday, which explains why the questions were left unanswered. Again, everyone here should remember Canreef is not the OP's home site (UK-based, not a Canadian reefer).




From my own experience, I once made a totally stupid & very costly (for my livestock) mistake of forgetting to turn my power bar back on one of my tanks after a water change. I was in a rush because my father-in-law had called while I was in the middle of doing water changes with free tickets to a Canucks game. I rushed through my water change, plugged everything back in, but took off without looking to see if the power came back on (which it didn't since I turned off the powerbar before starting the water change). By the time I came home, I had lost 3 fish , which I felt very guilty about since this was a totally preventable accident. The tank was much smaller than the OPs, but my bioload was also much smaller, yet in the 4 hours I was gone to watch the hockey game, the oxygen level had dropped enough to kill the biggest fish, which then increased the rate of oxygen depletion and caused an ammonia spike. So yeah, a tank crash can happen in less than 4 hours if all the stars align against you and your tank (Murphy's Law). Not one of my finer moments in my fish-keeping career, but I now am very anal about ensuring everything is plugged in and working after a water change.

This is another lesson I hope others can learn without going through it themselves. "Double check everything post-water change"!!!

Anthony

[brisco]

Canucks probably lost too! Insult to injury!

[Bblinks]

Canucks probably lost too! Insult to injury!

:mrgreen:

[Bblinks]

Kien,

These questions were answered.

"How long was the power out? 4hrs? Slightly more

What is you total system volume? 1100 litres

How many fish? Too many apparently

How did the inverts fair and which ones do you have if any? Fine until ammonia spike"



BTW, in case anybody bothered to check (which I did before I posted), the OP was NOT on Canreef since the 15th, when the original post was made, until she responded to yesterday, which explains why the questions were left unanswered. Again, everyone here should remember Canreef is not the OP's home site (UK-based, not a Canadian reefer).




From my own experience, I once made a totally stupid & very costly (for my livestock) mistake of forgetting to turn my power bar back on one of my tanks after a water change. I was in a rush because my father-in-law had called while I was in the middle of doing water changes with free tickets to a Canucks game. I rushed through my water change, plugged everything back in, but took off without looking to see if the power came back on (which it didn't since I turned off the powerbar before starting the water change). By the time I came home, I had lost 3 fish , which I felt very guilty about since this was a totally preventable accident. The tank was much smaller than the OPs, but my bioload was also much smaller, yet in the 4 hours I was gone to watch the hockey game, the oxygen level had dropped enough to kill the biggest fish, which then increased the rate of oxygen depletion and caused an ammonia spike. So yeah, a tank crash can happen in less than 4 hours if all the stars align against you and your tank (Murphy's Law). Not one of my finer moments in my fish-keeping career, but I now am very anal about ensuring everything is plugged in and working after a water change.

This is another lesson I hope others can learn without going through it themselves. "Double check everything post-water change"!!!

Anthony

How big was the tank Anthony? How much water did you drain out of it before you took off to the game? What three fishes died? Sorry for all the questions, I just have a genuine interest on this topic. I just can't seem to believe this can happen in such a short time. There is gotta be a better explanation to the cause of it. Thanks for your time.

[loumaggs]

Sorry to hear about your loss. It sucks to go through something like that. So what are you plans moving forward?

If I'm honest I don't actually know wha the plan is, I think I'm just leaving things to settle for now. Literally can't afford to restock at the mo net so I don't really have an option. I'm selling off some coral because I'm more of a fish person

[loumaggs]

I don't think anyone is doubting the legitimacy of your tank loss. Everyone is very sympathetic toward you about that :) I hope you get back on the seahorse and carry on with the hobby.

Seahorse very good :)

[loumaggs]

Last night I got home from work and my Cali Tort was 3/4s bleached/dead. I thought "maybe I should quit reefing" for a moment or two...lol I can't imagine a total tank wipe out, must be devastating.

Louise has a place in the youtube reef world. She may not be hardcore like some of the guy reefers who do video's like scientists but her vids have a place like anything else. I enjoy watching from time to time and if I learn something, bonus!

I'm far from a scientist but I enjoy making the videos... which is why I do it.

I actually have a learning difficulty which is why I speak slightly slowly, one of the reasons I started doing the channel was for that (I'm improving compared to my first videos you'll notice)

[loumaggs]

No one pointed it out to me, I normally post and then come back to check, I make my videos in an effort to help beginners. Not experts, I've been doing this nine years now so I know a little but I never claim to be an expert.
I've given my explanation in the video, everything which I know pointed to tank losing oxygen. I had a reasonably heavily stocked tank and I think that probably contributed to it. The only thing I did the night before was clean the glass.

loumaggs: did someone advise you that there were negative posts here? Is that why you came back so quickly? Previously, you hardly ever responded to your own threads or questions in them..is why I'm asking.

There have been some legitimate questions posted as to how your tank crashed so quickly...no one here seems to have experienced anything like that, despite almost all of us having experienced power outages, many of far greater duration in tanks much more heavy loaded than yours.

We're not saying it didn't happen of course, its just your explanation of why it happened seems rather unusual (tank ran out of o2 in an hour or so) compared to anyone here's experience.

Again, not to say it didn't happen like you said it did, but if you are going to hold yourself out as an expert while soliciting donations from us, you must expect questions like these.

*edit* My sympathies for your loss...nobody enjoys seeing beautiful fish like that die.

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Canucks probably lost too! Insult to injury!

No, actually this was a few years ago and the Canucks WON!!!:wink: I've only been to a handful of games, but they've actually won every game I've attended over the last decade or so. This wasn't true in the 80s or 90s though.

Rich,

it was only a 34g RSM, so much smaller than the OP's reef tank. I never had much luck with that tank and tore it down and replaced it with my 93g cube after this incident. I lost a med. Marine betta, a Naoko fairy wrasse and a third fish I cannot remember now. It was a complete Brain-fart moment and I still feel bad that my carelessness lead to their needless deaths. I admit I was really shocked that they died in such a short period of time without circulation. Before this happened, I would have sworn a tank could go half a day without power without suffering any casualties (unless overstocked like my main reef tanks usually are). The third fish may have been a mandarin goby. My leopard and yellow canary wrasses survived, but they hid in the sand for another day or so. I was in the process of planning a switch over to a bigger tank and had just recently added the MB in anticipation of that upgrade. My theory is the water change dropped the tank's ORP and without turning on my powerbar, the oxygen level dropped quickly. The 2 wrasses survived probably because they are used to surviving on lower oxygen levels when they bury themselves in the sand every night. As long as the pumps were working, this bioload was fine but without circulation it was clearly too much for the available dissolved oxygen levels in that size tank (4 small fish & 1 med.).

I had done a 10g water change and did another 10g change when I came home from the game.

Now I own 3 battery operated air pumps, a generator and a battery back up (UPS) in case of blackouts to ensure that I can at least keep my tanks oxygenated. I also check every piece of equipment after each water change to make sure everything is plugged in and working again.

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

No one pointed it out to me, I normally post and then come back to check, I make my videos in an effort to help beginners. Not experts, I've been doing this nine years now so I know a little but I never claim to be an expert.
I've given my explanation in the video, everything which I know pointed to tank losing oxygen. I had a reasonably heavily stocked tank and I think that probably contributed to it. The only thing I did the night before was clean the glass.

Not only was your tank reasonably heavily stocked, the fish you kept were mostly large tangs and other species that require heavily oxygenated waters to thrive. Once circulation was lost, these large tangs would have been the first to go and then it would have been a cumulative effect in a very negative way since each death would have depleted the oxygen level even faster and create a dead zone at the bottom layer of water, which is of course where the living fish would settle to conserve energy (Murphy's Law at work). Without the energy to stay near the surface, those fish would have been the next to succumb to oxygen deprivation. This is my theory of what happened in your tank.

Anthony

[Animal-Chin]

I'm far from a scientist but I enjoy making the videos... which is why I do it.

I actually have a learning difficulty which is why I speak slightly slowly, one of the reasons I started doing the channel was for that (I'm improving compared to my first videos you'll notice)


Would have never noticed, you speak very well in your videos.

We all go through ups and downs in this hobby. I've seen guys with full flourishing sps reefs make a mistake and crash the whole thing losing a fortune in coral. If its something you love, ya just gotta keep on going. If I were you, I'd re aquascape first. Make your tank look different than when it crashed like a fresh start sort of thing. Then go slowly from there bringing in new favorite fish!

[ComfortablyNumb]

Not only was your tank reasonably heavily stocked, the fish you kept were mostly large tangs and other species that require heavily oxygenated waters to thrive. Once circulation was lost, these large tangs would have been the first to go and then it would have been a cumulative effect in a very negative way since each death would have depleted the oxygen level even faster and create a dead zone at the bottom layer of water, which is of course where the living fish would settle to conserve energy (Murphy's Law at work). Without the energy to stay near the surface, those fish would have been the next to succumb to oxygen deprivation. This is my theory of what happened in your tank.

Anthony

Here's a vid of a friend's tank (Cabinetman) who posted earlier in this thread. This tank went without power for over a half a day and its full of big tangs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PEHCTBfDXQ

From his post on pg 2: "Something ain't right. I don't doubt she had a mass die off but I don't thing 4 hours without power did it. I've got 3 times the bioload and I've had power go out for half a day before and I lost nothing. Id like to know what really happened."


I don't think o2 levels drop that fast to fatal levels (1 hour or so as OP claims) when this tank went over 12 hrs with no
fatalities.

[rsisvixen]

From the speed of the tank crash I can only guess that even though all looked well that the tank was red lining on Dissolved oxygen content already and the power out pushed it over the edge.

I didn't hear a mention of a protein skimmer, and maybe surface agitation wasn't sufficient to maintain high enough levels of dissolved oxygen for the amount of bioload to sustain them once circulation stopped.

Although the bacteria would have been the last thing to die rather than the first, and probably via ammonia spike rather than lower lvl's of oxygen

[Dearth]

Every tank reacts differently it depends on so many factors like how much live rock, how stocked is the tank, how many high maintenance corals and fish are there, how easily do they become stressed and so on. All that factors in

Remember just because one tank will do well with no power for 12 hours does not mean every tank will react in the same way some do well others can crash in a matter of hours

I learned very early on in this hobby there is no such thing as standard or baseline everything involved in this hobby is a guideline there is nothing standard in this hobby at all and it is something that too many people in the hobby forget.

My personal opinion is that people here are disbelieving because loumaggs posted the video and didn't follow up and are less inclined to believe her story and that the fact she is on so many sites which by the way doesn't bother me but aparantly it bothers a lot of people but each to their own

[Myka]

Lack of oxygen is really the only thing that will kill that fast in a power outage.

[ComfortablyNumb]

Heat could have killed the fish too. Poisoning is also a possibility. Over-dosing meds or additives also. To say 02 deprivation is the only possible source is short-sighted in my view.

I know some tanks are different than others, but the same laws of physics and chemistry apply to all. I have never heard of any reef tank failing due to oxygen deprivation in such a short period of time as the OP surmises. It doesn't make any sense given the vast bulk of evidence indicating otherwise from practical experience by well experienced keepers here and elsewhere.

[ComfortablyNumb]

My own experience also indicates the stated cause is "fishy". I had a tank go almost 2 full days without power... with one minor loss of a fish that wasn't doing that well anyway. All other inhabitants lived, although 3 of the 14 later got ich. The temp in the tank dropped a few degrees (which actually assists with o2 uptake) while I had a blanket over it for about 40 hrs. A dark tank, as presumably the OP's tank was as the claimed outage happened at night, would also use up less o2 due to the relative inactivity of the fish.

My apologies...but colour me sceptical.

[Myka]

Heat could have killed the fish too. Poisoning is also a possibility. Over-dosing meds or additives also. To say 02 deprivation is the only possible source is short-sighted in my view.

I know some tanks are different than others, but the same laws of physics and chemistry apply to all. I have never heard of any reef tank failing due to oxygen deprivation in such a short period of time as the OP surmises. It doesn't make any sense given the vast bulk of evidence indicating otherwise from practical experience by well experienced keepers here and elsewhere.

Why would there be poisoning or over-dosing meds or additives in a power outage??? :neutral: As things start dying from lack of oxygen, their deaths will obviously create a snowball effect, but it's the lack of oxygen that is the primary cause in power outages in tanks that size, with that many fish, at this time of year (they have the same seasons as us in England). Heat wouldn't have changed that fast in a tank that size at this time of year. Anthony provided evidence of lack of oxygen. I've seen it happen within hours - several examples actually. It's really not that uncommon.

I don't think the "beneficial bacteria" loumaggs talks about would have been any significant contributing factor at only the 1 hour mark as she describes in her video though.

[Myka]

For those interested, Denny (reefwars) lost his tank in a power outage in Calgary recently too.

Also, here at Canreef it seems us "friendly Canadians" are the only ones that seem to be acting so "unfriendly" to loumaggs.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2579672

http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/marine-chat-10/my-tank-crash-hopefully-you-can-learn-my-experience-173993/

http://www.reef2reef.com/threads/my-tank-crash-hopefully-you-can-learn-from-my-experience.248900/

[IanWR]

I don't think scepticism is the same as unfriendliness.

In court there is a concept of clean hands. Those plaintiffs that don't play by the rules are treated differently than honest people seeking help. In this case the OP did not come to share an experience, seek advice, establish relationships, etc. She came here as a business person to advertise her business. When other non vendor businesses are linked to, the mods delete the link. I imagine if a non vendor business started posts like this, the posts would be deleted and the account banned.

That is my issue with the OP. If a fellow hobbyist shared a bad experience (eg tang they kept in a 40g died)they would get support, advice, possible criticism of a poor stocking choice. If some reef store posted about how they recommend tangs for 40g tanks they would be excoriated. Businesses are held to a higher standard than your average joe, since we expect them to know what they are doing.

The OP posted a commercial video containing erroneous information (your BB dies after an hour without power), crappy advice (tear your rock work apart to remove a fish body), and manipulation (poor me may not have the funds to continue, stay tuned to my channel to hear, links to direct cash asks). She deserves to be held to a higher standard of scrutiny, and held to the same rules as other businesses. Otherwise, let Denny back and allow him make posts sharing some neat new zoa, with a link to his site (for example).

[WarDog]

Denny's been back for months and months. He chooses not to participate.

[ComfortablyNumb]

Ian's post reflects my feelings exactly...and its the reason I didn't just pass this thread by as I normally would.

Do you go to bed at night in fear that a short power interruption will take out your whole reef/fish tank? I certainly don't ...as I have experienced dozens of short power interruptions in my 35 yrs keeping aquariums, with little to no losses incurred as a direct result of a 1-4hr outage.

If I was a newbie and watched that vid (as presumably hundreds have and many will do), my thoughts would be... why would I put thousands into a hobby that can be wiped out in 3hrs from a normal power interruption? It may keep me out of the hobby entirely. Thus, the OP should be held to a higher standard than your average poster.... not to mention the funds soliciting.

From another site:
I was thinking that since you've done so much with the reefing community in the way of educational videos, I would be more than happy to contribute to a gofundme site to get your tank up and running again. I'm sure others would do the same :) ....example of such soliciting working as intended by the OP.

When money starts being involved, combined with fact the OP admits she is no expert, plus some very dubious advice and conclusions dispensed...well, like I said...colour me sceptical.

She certainly has a lovely speaking voice with its own cadence and charm..but some of the things she has said, combined with her big reach and money requests...well you get the picture. :)
Cheers.

[ComfortablyNumb]

As a matter of fact, if I was admin here I'd sent her a pm immediately requesting she refrain from posting links that solicit money for her own personal gain on this site. ie: post the actual vid, not a link that requests funds.

[Cabinetman]

Ian's post reflects my feelings exactly...and its the reason I didn't just pass this thread by as I normally would.

Do you go to bed at night in fear that a short power interruption will take out your whole reef/fish tank? I certainly don't ...as I have experienced dozens of short power interruptions in my 35 yrs keeping aquariums, with little to no losses incurred as a direct result of a 1-4hr outage.

If I was a newbie and watched that vid (as presumably hundreds have and many will do), my thoughts would be... why would I put thousands into a hobby that can be wiped out in 3hrs from a normal power interruption? It may keep me out of the hobby entirely. Thus, the OP should be held to a higher standard than your average poster.... not to mention the funds soliciting.

From another site:
....example of such soliciting working as intended by the OP.

When money starts being involved, combined with fact the OP admits she is no expert, plus some very dubious advice and conclusions dispensed...well, like I said...colour me sceptical.

She certainly has a lovely speaking voice with its own cadence and charm..but some of the things she has said, combined with her big reach and money requests...well you get the picture. :)
Cheers.

Well said Ted!

[Jordon]

I guess if any lesson to be learned if if you are investing serious $ in livestock and/or care about the livestock it is wise to get a Seneye or Apex that can alert you in cases like this. That and a UPS or Battery Backup device.

I have all four personally as I have had too many close calls with snow storm outages as well as lightning storms in the summer.

I do feel bad for OP, but I think many are skeptical of her intentions due to the mass posting across other forums and the sign off on her video which makes people assume its for subscribers or $.

I'm not saying that is in fact the case, but to give you an example of why I am personally skeptical is the Fort McMurray fires. I work at a major financial institution assisting those affected as well as volunteering my time at Red Cross and various charities, and you wouldn't believe how many people try to scam their way to get money when they weren't actually affected by those events in the least. If anyone has experienced this, you start to take everything with a grain of salt.

[rsisvixen]

A dark tank, as presumably the OP's tank was as the claimed outage happened at night, would also use up less o2 due to the relative inactivity of the fish.


While true fish might use less oxygen at night, a tank also has less dissolved oxygen at night with the lowest levels of dissolved oxygen just before lights on. All photosynthesis is halted without light, and algae and zooxanthellae will use up dissolved oxygen and release carbon dioxide at night.

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

As a matter of fact, if I was admin here I'd sent her a pm immediately requesting she refrain from posting links that solicit money for her own personal gain on this site. ie: post the actual vid, not a link that requests funds.

Wow, for a new member (just over a month), you're going out of your way to change this forum into something its never been and to single-handedly break the stereotype of Canadians as friendly, accepting, sympathetic people. It's like you won't be satisfied until the OP leaves Canreef to avoid all this unnecessary online hate spewing from your keyboard. I guess "Haters gotta hate" as they say.

Just because YOU can't imagine that her fish died due to a lack of oxygen does not mean it didn't happen for that reason. As Myka and others have pointed out, power outages of various durations can (and have) caused several tank crashes to reefers we know. Each tank is different. One tank may come through with no casualties, others may suffer a complete crash. Ok, so it's never happened to you. Thank your lucky stars, but don't take your good fortune to mean that your experience is the same as everyone elses.

Your screenname "ComfortablyNumb" must be Ironic rather than an accurate description of your online persona/attitude.

Here's some free (unsolicited) advice:

1) If you have a problem with the OP, don't open her threads or post on them

2) If you have a problem with the OP's videos, don't watch them (nobody is forcing you)

3) If you feel like typing something hateful and nasty or giving advice to the forum administrators and moderators, go to your fridge, grab a brew and become "comfortably numb" instead.

BTW, if you want to attack my credentials, I've been keeping fish for almost 40 years, have a BSc in Aquaculture and an MSc in Aquacultural Engineering from UBC, and have worked for several years both in the petshop industry and working on commercial fish farms.

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

While true fish might use less oxygen at night, a tank also has less dissolved oxygen at night with the lowest levels of dissolved oxygen just before lights on. All photosynthesis is halted without light, and algae and zooxanthellae will use up dissolved oxygen and release carbon dioxide at night.

Exactly. This reverse-photosynthetic process exacerbated the low dissolved Oxygen issue and would have made things worse, NOT better.

[ComfortablyNumb]

Wow, for a new member (just over a month)
I may be new here SF, but I have been admin on a software-related BBS for over 8 yrs.

and to single-handedly break the stereotype of Canadians as friendly, accepting, sympathetic people.
You give me far too much credit I think. I also believe you are confusing my scepticism with hostility.

It's like you won't be satisfied until the OP leaves Canreef to avoid all this unnecessary online hate spewing from your keyboard. I guess "Haters gotta hate" as they say.
Its not just me saying it, if you'd take notice. Again, I believe you are confusing scepticism with hate or hostility. Hostility is however, clearly evident in your post to me.

Just because YOU can't imagine that her fish died due to a lack of oxygen does not mean it didn't happen for that reason.
Again, my friend, its not just me saying it. And it also goes against my 35 yrs experience and also in some very tangible ways, it goes against common sense.

Ok, so it's never happened to you.
Indeed, as I posted previously, power outages have happened to me many times over 35 yrs. And not once did I experience a complete die-off due to a 1-3hr power outage. Nor has any friend of mine, even one who's vid I posted earlier, ever experience anything like that with his tank, which is far more heavily laden bio-load wise than her tank. Our suspicions are there was something else wrong with this tank because an o2 crash in that short a period of time is, to my (alleged) mind, highly unlikely.

Your screenname "ComfortablyNumb" must be Ironic rather than an accurate description of your online persona/attitude.
Never, ever judge a book by its cover. *wink

Here's some free (unsolicited) advice:
I read your "advice" and you are asking more than its worth.

BTW, if you want to attack my credentials
I have zero intention of attacking your credentials. What I am upset with is your open hostility. The OP is clearly lacking credentials herself. Here's some advice for you, if you don't mind...go back and re-read my comment. Our main objection to the OP is her attempts at personal monetary gain from her posts here and elsewhere.

*edit* May I ask, do you think she should make money from posting here?

[jorjef]

It's an all out girl fight, please keep the hair pulling and scratching to a minimum....

[ComfortablyNumb]

It's an all out girl fight, please keep the hair pulling and scratching to a minimum....

lol..I thought that WAS the attraction of an all out girl fight. ; )

[Myka]

Personally, I'd enjoy watching some hair pulling and scratching, but let's move this thread into a better direction. After all it IS May Long Weekend and we should be having a Fiesta not a fight!

Yours truly,
Canreef Staff (just in case CN didn't realize that YES we ARE watching) ;)

[ComfortablyNumb]

Agreed on all points. I know you are watching and I appreciate that you didn't close off this thread.

Point of clarification:

If I posted a link of my tank and asked members for money for my own personal gain in that link, would you allow the post stand?

Thank-you for your patience.

[Myka]

Agreed on all points. I know you are watching and I appreciate that you didn't close off this thread.

Point of clarification:

If I posted a link of my tank and asked members for money for my own personal gain in that link, would you allow the post stand?

Thank-you for your patience.

Sure, why not?

[jorjef]

If I posted a link of my tank and asked members for money for my own personal gain in that link, would you allow the post stand?
.



High I'm going to post a link of my tank and I'm asking members for money for my own personal gain in that link ...but you get frags, or maybe because if I ask people will give my money, and if they do does anyone really care if that person gives me money...hey hold on please send me money just cus, PayPal preferred...I'm a bad bad man...

[kien]

Kien,

These questions were answered.

"How long was the power out? 4hrs? Slightly more

What is you total system volume? 1100 litres

How many fish? Too many apparently

How did the inverts fair and which ones do you have if any? Fine until ammonia spike"


Thanks Anthony! I was referring to other questions though, but I got my answers :-)

[WarDog]

:pop2:

[Scythanith]

High I'm going to post a link of my tank and I'm asking members for money for my own personal gain in that link ...but you get frags, or maybe because if I ask people will give my money, and if they do does anyone really care if that person gives me money...hey hold on please send me money just cus, PayPal preferred...I'm a bad bad man...

I will give you a dollar :)

[Dearth]

:pop2:

Stealing Kiens seat are you

[ComfortablyNumb]

Sure, why not?

Answered in my pm to you.

[reefwithareefer]

So I watched her other vids, the one where she explains that she is not rich etc plus the others made before those.

It made me wonder if what she is saying is true, can it not be possible that she is indeed being honest. It appears that she no doubt had a tank and it crashed. She was putting out vids before the crash happened. Is it not within the realm of possibilities that she is not wealthy and maybe she has an entrepreneurial spirit? There are many in life that have taken what they love doing and tried to make a living out of it. Is that such a bad thing? Again, she appears to have posts all over the world, not just for the vid of requesting money.


In short...
She wanted to make money by doing reefkeeping vids
Her tank crashed
Hard to make money with no tank
She invested time into vids and tank and wants to recoup, but can not afford so she asks for help. Who has not ever needed help?


Shady? Scam? Bad timing? Poor request method?

Friendly Canadians..Hmmm. this may be true, but it does
bring to mind, something a friend once said to me.

" One of the differences between a Canadian and an American is that someone could drive down a road in a Ferrari and the typical American would say Wow, cool car! I wonder what I have to do to get one?
The Canadian says..."Cool car, I wonder who he ripped off to get that car or is he just another drug dealer..."

I have been on Canreef for a few years now and have certainly felt or seen the the "friendly" side of us Canadians on here that made me sit back for a moment.

I have to step off my soap box now, going to jump into my Mercedes and go pick up some frags....

[Myka]

"One of the differences between a Canadian and an American is that someone could drive down a road in a Ferrari and the typical American would say Wow, cool car! I wonder what I have to do to get one?
The Canadian says..."Cool car, I wonder who he ripped off to get that car or is he just another drug dealer..."

:lol: Never heard that before!

[ComfortablyNumb]

I have been on Canreef for a few years now and have certainly felt or seen the the "friendly" side of us Canadians on here that made me sit back for a moment.


I've noticed it from coast to coast. Especially in the maritimes. Have you ever gone thru a Timmy's drivethru and had your coffee paid for by the chap in front of you? That doesn't happen much in the US. Happened to me last year and it had quite an effect. I've cut back on my Horton's intake, but whenever I'm in their drive-thru now, the guy behind me doesn't pay. Cheap way to feel good ;)
.... altho once, the woman behind me had ordered 3 sandwiches and I told the girl at the counter "Ehh...maybe next time :)

*edit* I think some of the difference between Americans and Canadians (altho I'm half American as well) is best illustrated by the way Canadians welcomed Syrian refugees into this country, while the US has virtually closed off access and is almost paranoid that they all could be terrorists. Cheers, Tim

[Skimmer Juice]

I personally think its more of Canadians being skeptical about suff like this . We are not use to patreon and being asked for donations in the reefing community , or at least I have yet to see patreon really being used in Canada for this type of thing. However Im into gaming/live streams and they have been doing it for a while using patreon to support them . Now some people use it as a tool to avoid leaving their house and having to face responsibility of being an adult , but some actually put a lot of time effort into making videos . Editing videos is not a quick thing to do so really if somebody appreciates the work they can chip in some money to help the person. Is this a bad thing ? No but like everything people will find ways to exploit it for money like everything .
My opinion I seen her videos long ago on youtube so its not like she just set up a channel and patreon to get a quick cash grab , and really her patreon has under $200 in donations so its not like shes getting rich from it , I have seen some youtube channels get more in a month in donations than I gross in a year lol. Think its more Canadians are skeptical when somebody with little to no activity on a forum board comes in from another country drops a post about a tank crash with links to a channel with heavy patreon influence , and then does not engage in the conversations . Cant deny its somewhat weird , why post if you have no intention on conversation about it ? Dont see anything wrong with questioning it , I dont think this jeopardizes us as a whole being un friendly . More like a little suspicious and Canadians dont like bull shit so if something seems off , question it dont be afraid . I also think all of this would have been avoided if the OP would have checked in and replied to a few questions on the first page , so when a few pages go by no second post people start wondering why . If she would have engaged in the convo none of this would have even came up , but I guess thats harder to do when you have literally posted the same thing on tons of other forums , plus only 18 posts? So im guessing she only posted to gather more attention to her youtube/patreon = $$$ . So cant you see why people are a little suspicious ?

Sorry for my terrible writing skills I suck and I realize this

[Dearth]

Well said Skimmer Juice and as a gamer myself I made tons of gaming videos (WOW ruled my life) which I find easy to make but doing actual real life videos is that much harder I think

As to loumaggs as far as I'm concerned all the more power to her if people can't handle her then it's very easy don't read any future posts by her or any future videos pretty simple actually

[reefwithareefer]

I've noticed it from coast to coast. Especially in the maritimes. Have you ever gone thru a Timmy's drivethru and had your coffee paid for by the chap in front of you? That doesn't happen much in the US. Happened to me last year and it had quite an effect. I've cut back on my Horton's intake, but whenever I'm in their drive-thru now, the guy behind me doesn't pay. Cheap way to feel good ;)
.... altho once, the woman behind me had ordered 3 sandwiches and I told the girl at the counter "Ehh...maybe next time :)

*edit* I think some of the difference between Americans and Canadians (altho I'm half American as well) is best illustrated by the way Canadians welcomed Syrian refugees into this country, while the US has virtually closed off access and is almost paranoid that they all could be terrorists. Cheers, Tim

I do not want to go to far in depth with all this. I will say that I lived in the states for quite some time. From Seattle to San Diego. Firstly, Timmys only just opened a few stores in the USA , so there is probably not to much going on with the pay it forward over there at Timmys.
There is however, lots of people doing similar things in the USA. I personally saw it and I am sure it happens in most places around the world. Canada is one of the youngest countries in the world, so more than likely, most others have done it already, centuries ago..:)

My friends words were about the attitude of Canadians, as opposed to Americans.
To me, it is irrelevant if Americans pay it forward at Timmys or not. Our(Canadian) attitude is still unchanged about the guy driving the Ferrari. It is about a culture of thinking to me. Just like the culture of thinking most Syrians have towards western culture

Yes, not all Syrians are bad folks. The reality is that the majority of Syrian people "dislike" western culture and despise America as its unelected leader. Whether it is justified or not. It is their culture of thinking because of whatever reason.
I am very confident that if one was to Google the history of the Syrian and American relationship, one would see it is and was not, good by any stretch of the imagination.
So it does not surprise me that they may not want to take a chance on letting them live in their country after such a strained relationship already. Do you let people move into your house knowing there is a good chance they may not like you?
None of this really is pertinent to the discussion anyways is it? How does letting Syrians into a country have anything to do with with the Canadian attitude that this lady is just a scam and is ripping someone off to get herself a Ferrari?

IMO, Yes, skepticism is probably not a bad thing, but many comments made on here, were much more than just folks being skeptical.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I say....

Did she not respond by making the video explaining her actions? Would that not take much less time to accomplish than responding to every board, blog, vlog etc etc.

I look at how much time it takes to think of a respectful response and type it etc. Hell, I look at how long this response took, so imagine having to do that 100, 200 300... times. Imagine dealing with the haters etc on top of it. I would have to quit my job or something..The problem with that , is that I do not have a YouTube channel that makes me money...not yet anyways..haha

[intarsiabox]

:lol: Never heard that before!

Well, one person has.

[intarsiabox]

Personally, (and this is just my opinion), I find it sad when someone loses their tank that they put a lot of care and effort into. I've had things die and felt pretty bad about it but have never experienced a crash. Other people on this board have posted their crashes and everyone was supportive to them. Now if the OP worked for McDonalds and got paid from McDonalds I wouldn't care, so if the OP wants to put the work into a video for YouTube and gets paid by YouTube then why should I care about that either?

[brisco]

I am more interested in the "why" the tank crashed so as to learn and avoid it. Canadians/Americans/Syrians oh my!

[Bblinks]

I am more interested in the "why" the tank crashed so as to learn and avoid it. Canadians/Americans/Syrians oh my!

Amen! Don't know why all that got involved. Go live where you think it's better.i want op to tell me why this tank crashed within 4 hours of power outage which makes absoultly no sense to me so I can sleep better at night, I think that's what the bulk of us is trying to find out. There is no reason this process would happen so fast, there is obviously other elements that's in play here.
Stop with all this political crap.

[Myka]

Stop with all this political crap.

People get sidetracked, and it's what happens when the OP fails to come back and update a thread where people have lots of questions. :)

[reefwithareefer]

People get sidetracked, and it's what happens when the OP fails to come back and update a thread where people have lots of questions. :)



or is it that people are quick to judge and accuse and she does not want to be subjected to more ignorant abuse from others? Hmmm...

[Myka]

or is it that people are quick to judge and accuse and she does not want to be subjected to more ignorant abuse from others? Hmmm...

Maybe, but she didn't reply much in any of her other threads either. ;)