Bowfront seam failure?

[Delphinus]

Does anyone have any experience in diagnosing a possible failed seam on a bowfront?

I have water coming out of my bottom trim. I can't see where it is coming from. I thought it might be splashing but I've readjusted the flow patterns and I'm pretty sure it's not splashing anymore. There's no salt creep along the sides, and I've checked the wires coming down the back for any kind of wicking and I don't see any.

The side seams appear fine, but obviously I cannot see the bottom seams for they are under sand.

Unfortunately it appears to be accelerating. I lived in denial for a few days but I fear that the odds of this being something benign are becoming low.

[Buccaneer]

If you empty the tank Tony I will reseal the bottom edge for you ( and bring your buckets back :razz: )

[Jason McK]

I had two failures on a Oceanic 72G Bow. That is two separate tanks failed at the same spot. It was about 3 inches left of the overflow on the back seem. Water filled the trim then spilled out the front.

Jason

[Delphinus]

Thanks for the info Jason.

The spot you describe is where I seem to have the most water accumulating, a few inches offset from the overflow. It is then running forward spilling out at the front as well as in this spot.

I have run a paper towel "bandana" around the tank to confirm 100% that it is not some kind of spillage from the top. Bone dry.

Yet there is accumulation of water around the bottom trim at the order of a few ml per every few hours.

How long did yours go on like this before you replaced the tanks? I guess now that I have confirmed my diagnosis I'm a bit freaked out as to how far away a catastrophic failure might be. Even flat out I won't have a new tank to transfer into for at least a day or two, and this has been going on for several days now already.

Great .... I didn't need to sleep tonight!!!!!!!!

[Bryan]

Seem to recall reading athread on RC that the 72 Gal was most prone to seam failures.

[Jason McK]

Delphinus,
Unfortunately for me, my failure was extreme in both cases. I actually had sand shooting out of the seem after about 2 minutes of slow leak. I'm afraid to tell you mine went from a drip to flow in minutes

J

[Delphinus]

:cry:

With many thanks to Doug and Steve for helping me move things out of the 72g this morning, I regret to report that this has turned out to be one of the worst days of my life inside of this hobby nonetheless.

My only guess now is that the ritteri is the root cause of things. It is the only variable I can't account for. The water was good, the temperature was goo.

I have essentially lost my entire tank. At this point the mandarin and the percula look like they may pull though. Please wish them luck. I have moved the mandarin into a different tank outside of the ritteri tank. I cannot catch my percula, but maybe he's immune to whatever it is that damned anemone is putting out because he actually looks fine.

The worst part is that the air in my house has become acrid. There are three people in the house and everyone is reporting that their sinuses are burning, and sneezing. Something is in the air.

I don't know what to do. I have had a few months of bad luck in this hobby but this just doesn't compare to a leaky reactor. I will probably have to take some time to reassess my feelings and decide where do I go from here. I have to admit that I am considering packing it in.

The first order of business will be that I have to find the ritteri a new home. If you have any interest in a ritteri anemone please let me know now. I will probably be putting a post in the buy/sell forum at some point, including other things that I will be paring down to scale things back.

[Bob I]

I am really sorry to hear about your misfortunes. :sad: And to hear that your pride and joy is doing that to you hurts even more. I am wondering if the anemone was beginning to feel crowded :question: , and moved into another phase of its lifecycle. I am of course guessing.

[Beverly]

I have essentially lost my entire tank.

Tony,

You are describing my worst nightmare - leaking tank and losing all livestock. Once picked up some kind of funky looking orange worm-like thing. Put it in my 180g, when we had it. A few months later, woke up one morning and half my fish were dead and the other half breathing heavily :frown: Our prized marine betta that we had from the beginning of reefkeeping was dead. That hurt the most :cry:

Threw in as much carbon as our setup could take, removed the not-yet-dead fish from the tank to buckets, and changed a huge amount of water. Couldn't figure out what caused this tremendous death, until I remembered the funky worm, which had disintegrated. Most of the not dead fish did not survive, they were so poisoned :cry: :frown: Corals were okay for the most part.

Was so bummed out for a few days that I wasn't sure what to do. But I realized I still had rock and corals, so I slowly built up the livestock over the next few months. Thank God I didn't have a leaking tank to go along with the loss of the livestock.

You at least have some fish, as well as your rock. You're a trooper, man, so I don't see you leaving the hobby, especially since you've won several battles lately. I predict, oh swammy, that you will get over your grief in time to rebuild :cool:

Best wishes to you :smile:

[Jack]

Hang in there Tony.

Good luck.

[Jason McK]

Boy oh boy Tony. Sorry to read of your troubles. Hang in there

J

[LostMind]

My condolences.

You've been a big help to me as I've moved along thru this hobby. It'd be a loss to have you leave reefing entirely, thats for sure.

Take care, and good luck with whatever you choose to do.

:confused:

[AJ_77]

The Ritt wiped out the 72, but is OK itself? Or is it in the new tank now? I'm having a hard time putting the story together - no problem though. You likely need help more than questions right now.

Anemones are off my menu for now, so can't help you there - sorry Tony.

[Buccaneer]

The Ritteri was sliming abit when Tony was trying to extricate him from a large rock that he was attached to ... he obviously did not like the idea of leaving that rock :eek: ... I cant see how that anemone could cause that much damage but obviously has some serious defense mechanisms :confused:

When we moved my whole tank a couple weeks ago I had to use a ice cooler and a plastic knife to wedge my large GBTA off the back of my tank and did not experience anything like this ... the buckets that the fish/anemones were in actually dropped quite abit in temperature and we did not have alot of time to reaclimate them to the new tank yet all survived.

This slime from the Ritteri has to be the cause and is seriously poisonous :sad:

I am so sorry for what happened Tony ... I feel just awfull ... I will have my sump/skimmer up and running in the next couple days so I will volunteer to provide a temporary home for your anemone < I say temporary because I would like you to take some time to reconsider getting rid of it altogether as the disappointment of the loss of fish is too fresh in your mind >

Please consider my offer before you decide on anything

If you still decide to get rid of it I will take it as well but only if you let some time pass and get a chance to regroup and reconsider

Regards

[Quinn]

Hope it works out for you Tony. :frown:

[Delphinus]

Many thanks for all the kind words.

I know that many people have suffered great losses before in their quest for the hobby. I suppose this underscores that there is risk in this hobby, even when you think you have identified the risks and have taken steps to mitigate them, a whole new crop of them come up that you never even dreamt of.

I can only speculate that the anemone released something toxic, and I suppose I'll never -really- know. But it is sure is one thing that sets this tank move apart from others, and it makes me pause to wonder.

Tomorrow is another day.

[monza]

Sorry for the losses, but give it up... wrong! Move forward, get the bigger tank that you've wanted, more water volume is going to help enormously with the monster anemones that you are growing. Never be beaten or step back move ahead and make things better!

Best of luck, if I can help let me know how.
Dave

[MitchM]

:eek:
Hang in there, Tony! You're a great resource to this board and hobby, and if there is anything I can do or temporary store for you, let me know!

Mitch

[Doug]

Geez Tony;
Thats sucks. I have been there also, although not in that severity, with my flatworm wars. :evil: I also know the feeling of just wanting to say the heck with it all.

Sorry about your losses and wish you the best in what ever path it is you go. I would for sure help, if I was there.

[Buccaneer]

Sorry for the losses, but give it up... wrong! Move forward, get the bigger tank that you've wanted, more water volume is going to help enormously with the monster anemones that you are growing. Never be beaten or step back move ahead and make things better!

Best of luck, if I can help let me know how.
Dave

:cool:

[TANGOMAN]

Tony, that's awful news. I have a pretty good idea how crushed both you and Linda are.
You are a valuable member to this community. Packing it in is out of the question ! Stop for a minute and consider the enjoyment you find in your systems. Whether it's sitting back and observing, or modifying and adjusting. That would leave a void that'd be difficult to fill. You've been cursed with moving things as of late. I've been down that road many times and the losses never get easier. Like you said, they become pets.
Moving systems is always a huge risk. You do everthing you can to do it right and the rest is dependant on luck... :sad:

I think you're right about the Ritteri, though it didn't "slime up" nearly as bad as the "big move". Last night, and still today, my sinuses hurt like hell ! I just figured I was comin' down with a bad cold... :confused: . I wish that's what it was...

Don't make any drastic decissions buddy !!!

[Beverly]

Tony,

How are things going since the crash? Have been thinking about you and hope all is well.

[trilinearmipmap]

I have heard a lot about bowfront seam failures.

In a rectangular tank, if the temperature changes up or down the glass would expand or contract evenly among all 5 panes of glass, thus the seams should not be stressed.

In a bowfront tank, the front pane is longer than the rear pane, therefore it should expand or contract proportionatly more with a temperature change. Over time this small amount of expansion and contraction could stress the seams causing a failure.

That is just a theory but it is the only reason I can figure why bowfronts should fail so much.

If it were me I would try to round up a number of people on line who have had bowfront tank failures and seek a remedy from the manufacturer, or talk to someone about a class-action lawsuit. As I understand it most companies would rather pay up than spend a jillion dollars on legal fees, whether they are right or wrong.

[Delphinus]

How are things going since the crash?

Hi Bev,

The mandarin who I've moved into my other tank is doing fine, although I'm concerned about his long-term prospects in there with the exceptionally hungry 5 other fish in there to compete with (doesn't matter how much I feed them ...). I shoot mysis at the mandarin when I see him and he'll take one or two, but it's a far cry from the 12 of so mysids he'd get per day when he was in the other tank (because the other fish are like lightning on the mysis, whereas with his former tankmates, nobody would let me get close to them with the turkey baster {except him} so it was a breeze to target feed him). I'll have to see how it goes, right now I'm not worried since he seems to be fat and not terribly hungry, but if that changes I might have to try to catch him and put him back in the other tank.

The other tank, other than being mostly empty now, seems to be doing OK now. The perc (probably ocellaris but it doesn't really matter to me) has the 90g to himself and I think he (she by now) is probably a little dotty without some company, so I am considering picking up a small percularis or two to see how that goes.

The anemone has had a few off days since the move but is overall doing OK.

Snails, hermits, conch, other corals (mostly softies), and the perc, all were unaffected by whatever it was that killed the fish.

I had contemplated getting rid of the ritteri but I don't think I'm ready to do that anymore. It's a very large animal and as such there are not too many tanks out there that could do well for it. And since now there is a risk to fishmates if something sets it off, I don't know if I could consciousably (sp? is that even a word??) pass it off to someone else if they didn't know what they were getting themselves into.

My thinking now is that if I ever do get other fish for this tank, and if I ever have to move them again, the fish have to be done in a separate move -- different initial tank, different timing, etc.

Before I had the tank setup I had briefly flirted with the idea of a common sump between my two tanks. :eek: I can only thank my lucky stars now that I had decided against that idea, I don't want to even think about what bullet I dodged there.

... I haven't quite decided if I want to sell the bowfront or keep it and maybe turn it into a vivarium. When I have some time I was going to tackle the issue of resealing it. Interamerican would charge $100 to reseal the tank, or I could try it myself (espescially if it's going to be mostly a terrarium or vivarium anyhow, no big deal if my silicone work looks sloppy, so as long as the leak is actually fixed). But to be honest I don't think the size/shape lends itself real well to any vivarium sp I'm not sure ... I'll have to sleep on that question some more.

[Buccaneer]

Before I had the tank setup I had briefly flirted with the idea of a common sump between my two tanks. :eek: I can only thank my lucky stars now that I had decided against that idea, I don't want to even think about what bullet I dodged there.



That was a close call ... it certainly would have cut down on your maintenance time only having one sump/skimmer etc to deal with so I understand why running one only would have been very tempting ... good thing you did not succumb to temptation :razz:

did you check with the experts over at RC as to what that could have been excreted from the anemone or if they had seen the same phenomenon before ?

I am glad that life has settled back down for you.

[Delphinus]

I didn't put a post in my own thread, however, I did add a post recounting the experience to Gary Majchrzak's thread regarding his ritteri. He too had an incident over the summer (August IIRC), although in slightly different circumstances, had the same end result: a complete wipeout of all non-anemonefish fish in his tank. In his case his ritteri had wandered too close to the overflow and part of the pedal disk got sucked into it, causing an injury. But in Gary's case I believe he said he actually saw mesenterial filaments free floating in the tank, whereas in my case there was not really anything visible. With a lack of physical evidence, however, I am still convinced that it is the anemone. This is twice now in six months that this setup has been moved, and both times ended up with disastrous results. I know that any time a tank is moved, there is risk; but this goes beyond that.

The anemone had been moved twice before in the past but with no ill effects. However the first time that it was moved it was considerably smaller (5") and the second time, only clownfish were moved along with it.

[AJ_77]

IT'S A KILLER! :eek: But seriously, it sures gives pause to consider (and reconsider) keeping one of these beasts, or any anemone for that matter. They have wondrous capacities for harm in our little systems - another argument for leaving them in the oceans? ...like we need another.

...a small percularis...
- - - - - > :lol: :biggrin: :lol:

[Buccaneer]

But in Gary's case I believe he said he actually saw mesenterial filaments free floating in the tank, whereas in my case there was not really anything visible.

The thing is though Tony is that I did see stuff floating around in the tank when you were trying to remove his foot from that large rock ... kind of whispy slimy stuff ... maybe that is what Gary was referring to as " mesenterial filaments "

That type of defence seems to be specialized to ritteri's as I saw no evidence of that when I was removing my GBTA from the back wall of my old tank.

[Delphinus]

I don't think it's the same thing. He's referring to the filament structures within the digestive cavity (you can sometimes see them in the tentacles, or if an anemone is back lit). Basically, "anemone guts." I don't think you would see this get released except in an injury type situation where it would spill out of a tear in the flesh.

Slime is another thing though. But then, many many things slime up when disturbed, it's a fairly common defensive mechanism.

Who knows though. The thing is, we didn't stop to analyze what that stuff was under a microscope, so we'll never truly definitively know. We'll have to accept this as anecdotal/circumstantial evidence at most.