Refugiums: Yay or Nay?

[spedly]

There seems to be a few differing opinions on refugiums. Some experts say they're awesome to have, but only if they're big enough. Others say there's no point. What are your experiences? I don't seem to have a need for one today. But I like the idea of growing macro alage and critters for a mandarin or other cool fish.

[Animal-Chin]

I'm not expert but I think mine helps keep the water clean. I have a pretty big one, I'd say 12x10x10 packed with cheato. I trim half of it out every month or so and it grows back quick. Its teaming with life from pods to little star fish. So I keep the thing going...

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Yay. I always have part of my sump converted to being a refugium with some chaeto, other macro & live rock (rubble) for extra biofiltration/nutrient export & pod production to add live food into my display.

[warriorcookie]

There seems to be a few differing opinions on refugiums. Some experts say they're awesome to have, but only if they're big enough. Others say there's no point. What are your experiences? I don't seem to have a need for one today. But I like the idea of growing macro alage and critters for a mandarin or other cool fish.

I think part of the reason for mixed advice is the term refugium means something different to everyone. Deep sand bed, macro algae, live rocks, mangroves, etc...

I see the benefit to have macros and some extra live rock. IMO, not alot of people grow enough to make a difference though.

If you do Chaeto, make sure to give it enough room to tumble. Youtube it.

[Myka]

In order for me to answer this question it would have to be more specific. "A refugium" could refer to quite a few different methods. What is the main purpose you want a refugium for? Generally though, I'm not a big fan.

[Craigdillman]

As long as you have the right "goals/expectations" for your fuge they are awesome

I you want it for nutrient export having a 10"x10" section in your sump covered will not do it for you
that goes for same if all you want to is have a safe haven for pod growth to feed a mandarin or other finicky fish you won't need a 50g section to achieve that

i have a small 10x8x14 section with some of that miracle mud topped with some sand few pieces of small rubble and cheat growing that i cut every month or so back down to a baseball size, lit by a par38 bulb opposite of the tank

Works wonders for me its also kinda cool to watch the crazy life in there mandarin and the leopard wrasse are happy all day and i never have to worry about stable pod population

[albert_dao]

IMO, a well thought out reef aquarium should never require the services of a refugium. This off the back of the hundreds of setups I've down over the years.

[spedly]

I don't really have a reason for a refugium. I guess what's driving it more than anything is, "hey, I have a section in my sump for a refugium. maybe I should put something in there."

I like the sounds of "nutrient export" but I'm not sure if the section is big enough to have much of an impact. It's a 12.5"x14.5" section on a 150g display. Moreover that's probably not big enough to grow a sufficient amount of critters to feed a feed a mandarin.

I think I'm answering my own question as to whether or not I should get one going.

[coolhandgoose]

I'm in the same boat, I have a section of my sump that's been empty since the start of the tank. I can't decide what I want to do with it. I don't have a light either so if I want to grow cheato I'd have to get that as well.

Question : for feeding a mandarin do you guys take the pods out of the fuge or just let the return pump shoot them up should they fall in the return section?

[spedly]

Regarding the pods, my understanding is that only the larva will go through the return pump and into the display. However fish eat the adults - and they're too big to go through the return pump, so they need to be fished out manually.

The larva will grow in the display tank and eventually become tasty morsels if they have the required nutrients in a safe place inside display tank.

The more I went down the pod/refugium wormhole yesterday the more I realized that the easiest way to get enough stock is to have a tank dedicated for them. I don't think I want to do that right now.

[Trigger Man]

I liked the idea of a refugium and tried it with the trigger system Elite sump that has the built in fuge. In the end I could never get it to work out properly and ended up shutting it down and leaving it running just water. I try to put some LPS into my tank where possible as my extra filter cleaning. I was talking to a few guys that swear that using xenia's in the fuge area does more.

[Animal-Chin]

IMO, a well thought out reef aquarium should never require the services of a refugium. This off the back of the hundreds of setups I've down over the years.


Funny thing is I've seen this same comment made in the past about skimmers, algae scrubbers, carbon, phosphate reducing media, you name it. Everything we seemingly can add to our tanks have positives and negatives but do the positives outweigh the negatives?

[shiftline]

I just seeded a bunch of live rock in the sump with pods... I think cheato or macro have benefit but only on large scale.. i personally dont think the tiny fuges that most of us run have a huge advantage on nutrient levels.. Pods is about the biggest benefit if you have a mandarin or pipe fish (i have both! haha)

[Animal-Chin]

Guess I could clean out my fuge and see if my nitrates go up, thatd be the only sure fire way to know for sure...

[shiftline]

Let us know the results if you try it :)

[albert_dao]

Funny thing is I've seen this same comment made in the past about skimmers, algae scrubbers, carbon, phosphate reducing media, you name it. Everything we seemingly can add to our tanks have positives and negatives but do the positives outweigh the negatives?

Sure, but here's how I see it:

1. You don't need one. It's not like this is a matter of replacing something either, you just straight up can run a beautiful, healthy tank fuge free.

2. When you do have one, there are diminishing returns on its usefulness as a filter compared to just doing water changes and having good flow/skimmer.

3. They collect detritus over time. This is just more maintenance.

4. They take up resources (space, electricity, money, etc).

Given that I can run two tanks side by side, fuge/no fuge and end up with more or less the same results after a year, I'm of the motivation that they are completely dispensable.

[soapy]

I enjoy having a refuge. Just for the idea of having a second different ecosystem. Sort of like having the mangrove swamp next to the lagoon and reef. I love looking in there and seeing thousands of pods and mysids cavorting amongst the macros and fan worms day and night.

[AquaAddict]

If you want to keep Mandarins, or leopard wrasses, etc., you will a better success rate if you have a refugium.

AquaAddict

[shiftline]

Does macro alage actually do anything to help pods grow or would a chamber of love rock grow pods just the same ?

[Wheelman76]

Does macro alage actually do anything to help pods grow or would a chamber of love rock grow pods just the same ?



A bunch of live rock rubble is better housing for a bunch of pods than chaeto imo. When I grew chaeto I never found any pods inside of it.

[coolhandgoose]

What about a cryptic fuge? Those seem to be all the rage. Can you still have a pod population in there?

[brisco]

Watching this thread closely as I am considering starting one up. I did see this debated at a conference with Julian Sprung definitely in favour, but he did indicate that there are so many different definitions of what a fuge is, so it makes it difficult.

[Jakegr]

You can definitely run a successful reef tank without a refuge, but that doesn't really mean much. We have all seen successful tanks run without protein skimmers, carbon/GFO/other media, filter socks etc... there are just so many different combinations that can work.

- My old tank had a refugium run on an opposite lighting schedule to the display tank. It kept the pH extremely constant.
- Depending on the species of algae you grow, I think even small refuges can remove significant amounts of nutrients.
- They consume CO2 and produce oxygen. Elevated CO2 has been known for decades to reduce growth in aquatic animals, but seems to have only recently started to gain traction in the salt water aquarium hobby as being an important water parameter.
- From a husbandry perspective, if you take care of the refuge it can make a decent place to keep aggressive fish, fish that need to be target fed etc.

[kien]

I vote YAY as well. For me, I run a 150 gallon refugium conveniently located over my sump. It has sand, live rock, dead coral rubble and grows pods, algaes, all the good stuff ! :thumb:

[shiftline]

I vote YAY as well. For me, I run a 150 gallon refugium conveniently located over my sump. It has sand, live rock, dead coral rubble and grows pods, algaes, all the good stuff ! :thumb:



Fuge over the sump? Do you have a pic?! :)

[albert_dao]

Fuge over the sump? Do you have a pic?! :)

Dammit man... -___-

[spedly]

I vote YAY as well. For me, I run a 150 gallon refugium conveniently located over my sump. It has sand, live rock, dead coral rubble and grows pods, algaes, all the good stuff ! :thumb:

lol

[kien]

Fuge over the sump? Do you have a pic?! :)

Yes, as a matter of fact I do. Here's a recent pic of my 150g 'fuge.

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af144/muzanji/20160328%20Tank/FTS_20160328_002_zpsgjri8sgc.jpg

[albert_dao]

Yes, as a matter of fact I do. Here's a recent pic of my 150g 'fuge.

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af144/muzanji/20160328%20Tank/FTS_20160328_002_zpsgjri8sgc.jpg

Most incompetent fuge I've ever seen. Where's the Chaeto , Caulerpa and Miracle Mud?

[kien]

Most incompetent fuge I've ever seen. Where's the Chaeto , Caulerpa and Miracle Mud?

Ya, it's definitely far from perfect :sad: I struggle with growing Chaeto as my tangs seem to enjoy (consuming) it, immensely. Plus, I have a hard time finding Caulerpa around here. Seems no one wants to stock it anymore. Instead, I have to settle for bubble algae and film algae. The Miracle Mud is all under the live rock. It's only visible when you lift up any rock allowing the "mud" to escape all over the place clouding the entire refugium. :neutral:

[albert_dao]

Ya, it's definitely far from perfect :sad: I struggle with growing Chaeto as my tangs seem to enjoy (consuming) it, immensely. Plus, I have a hard time finding Caulerpa around here. Seems no one wants to stock it anymore. Instead, I have to settle for bubble algae and film algae. The Miracle Mud is all under the live rock. It's only visible when you lift up any rock allowing the "mud" to escape all over the place clouding the entire refugium. :neutral:

Get your act together Kien. The only thing that's going to fix this mess is a few new Acans. Thankfully, I know where you can get some.

[soapy]

My refugium currently houses a Yellow Clown Goby who prefers eating acroporas over any other food. He especially likes the delicate colourful acro's and eats those first. In the fuge he is on a strict diet of brownapora.

[shiftline]

My refugium currently houses a Yellow Clown Goby who prefers eating acroporas over any other food. He especially likes the delicate colourful acro's and eats those first. In the fuge he is on a strict diet of brownapora.

Sounds like he has good taste!

[soapy]

Sounds like he has good taste!

Hah! Ok, he just got his name; Charlie.

Wonder if he tastes good?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvgEqlFIn2o

[Animal-Chin]

I don't get it, Kiens fuge looks like a regular reeftank? Does Kien not know what a refugium is?

[soapy]

I vote YAY as well. For me, I run a 150 gallon refugium conveniently located over my sump. It has sand, live rock, dead coral rubble and grows pods, algaes, all the good stuff ! :thumb:

If you leave it empty they are a lot less maintenance and you will save electricity! :biggrin:

[trilinearmipmap]

Question for people with a chaeto fuge and running phosphate reactors:

Do you find that near-zero phosphate prevents your chaeto from growing, eliminating the benefits of nutrient export with chaetomorpha?

[shiftline]

I used chemipire blue in my old 30g and it ended up killing off my cheato. So I decided to jail use the chemipure as it was cheap and less hassle