What Species of Clown Is this???

[OCDP]

Hey guys... my first post here... I really enjoy the site.. it's great. I am 18, just setup my first reef on August 31st... I love the hobby, it's great.

My question is...

I bought 2 tank-raised percula's from Big Al's... but then when I was using RC and posted a pic of them, I was told they were tank-raised Ocellaris (I didn't think Big Al's would screw up the species) So for the longest time I have been thinking they are Ocellaris... but today on RC, someone viewed my pics and told me they were Percula's lol. I figure some of you reefers should be able to tell... sorry for the not so great pictures.. .I'll snap some better ones in the future.

http://www.sendpix.com/albums/04102917/a1qnmdxwr5/

Thanks in advance :smile:

[AJ_77]

Ocellaris (False Percula). Welcome to the board!

:biggrin:

[OCDP]

Hey!

Thanks for the speedy reply... and I have a feeling your going to be seeing a lot of me hahaha.

Are you 100% sure it's an Ocellaris? Big Al's had them for $14.99 each marked as "Tank-Raised Percula's" ... :question:

Thanks again :)
Scott

[dirtyreefer]

yup they're definitely Ocellaris...

[OCDP]

Cool, thanks for clearing that up.

How do you know *for sure* that it's an Ocellaris? I'm not saying your wrong, just curious as to how you tell the two apart so distinctly.

Thanks,
Scott

[AJ_77]

Generally speaking, the Ocellaris Clownfish (Amphiprion ocellaris) lacks the more obvious black colouring between the bands on the body, commonly found in Amphiprion percula. Specifically,

"It has 11 dorsal spines (10 in A.percula), and 17 pectoral rays (16 in A.percula)." - from http://www.amonline.net.au/fishes/fishfacts/fish/apercula.htm

So if you want to know for SURE, get counting. :biggrin:

Actually, here's a good page - scroll down to similar species: http://www.edge-of-reef.com/pomacentridi/PMCAmphiprionocellarisen.htm - see if yours matches one of these.

[OCDP]

I don't really know.. they are still fairly small as you can see.. but I don't think it resembles an adult like you showed me... I'm sure it is an Ocellaris.. I guess time will tell?

[mr_alberta]

Usually True Percula clownfish also cost a lot more than $14.99...unless they jacked up Edmonton price for them! :eek:

[Delphinus]

I think captive bred percs may lose their black banding, and forget trying to count dorsal spines unless you like a whole lotta frustration. "Hold still I say!" What's worse, even if you did count them, dollars to donuts you'll count 10. And technically percs can have 9 or 10, and ocellaris can have 10 or 11. Whee! Guess how many MY percularis fish have?? :lol:

I couldn't see the pictures you posted because of some firewall issue (Stupid McAfee).

Anyhow, one method that clownfish guys swear by, is the colour of the ring around the eye. If it's clear (or orange), it's A. ocellaris. And if it's dark, muddy, or outright back then it's A. percula.

HTH :biggrin:

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

I vote Ocellaris not Perc as well. They look just like every Oc I've ever had. The price also indicates TR Oc. Just my $.02 :biggrin:

[Tarolisol]

wierd from what i can tell its a big empty white screen, with a slight hint of grey. Anyone else concour?

[Bob I]

Anyhow, one method that clownfish guys swear by, is the colour of the ring around the eye. If it's clear (or orange), it's A. ocellaris. And if it's dark, muddy, or outright back then it's A. percula.

What ring around the eye :question: I have two of what I am sure are A. percula. They have black around the pupils. pupils. I have two A.ocellaris. They have black rings around their pupils. At least in the human eye it would be called the white of the eye. IOW my percs have clear whites, and the Ocellaris have black whites. Anyone who has stayed with me this far, does that make any sense. :question:

BTW these are all wild caught, and the Perculas have the characteristic black banding. :rolleyes:

[Delphinus]

Um .. You've totally lost me there Bob. (Yes, I did mean the ring around the pupils. pupils. :razz: ) But I'm afraid I didn't understand any of the rest of what you said.

[Bob I]

Um .. You've totally lost me there Bob. (Yes, I did mean the ring around the pupils. pupils. :razz: ) But I'm afraid I didn't understand any of the rest of what you said.

I did not think anyone would, so I will retry. I have four wild caught clowns. The two that are Ocellaris as far as I am concerned have BLACK rings around the pupils :eek: , The two that are A. percula because the markings say so, have CLEAR rings around the pupils, which is exactly opposite to what you said. Did you get it backward perhaps :question:

[AJ_77]

The sites I linked seem to back up Bob... :question: And the ring around the pupil makes the eyes look fuller/blacker in the Ocellaris there...

Nothing like clearing the issue up some. :confused:

[Bob I]

Well the more pictures I look at the more confused I become. I do know that my percs look exactly like the lower picture on this site
http://www.exotictropicals.com/encyclo/marine/clowns/truepercula.php
But one of what I have taken to be A. ocellaris has SOME black edging around the white bars, According to some people they NEVER do, but they have the black rings around the pupils. I do get more confused. :confused:

[Quinn]

Tough to be 100% certain but I do think we're looking at A. ocellaris here, just based on what seems to be more common in stores here. From Rob Toonen:

"Technically the difference between the two has little to do with coloration -most of the clowns show coloration variation throughout their range. The real difference is in the number of fin rays in the dorsal fin:
-A. ocellaris has 11 (but in rare individuals 10) fin rays in the dorsal fin.
-A. percula has 10 (but in rare individuals 9).

The spinous anterior portion of the dorsal fine is elevated in A. percula (3.1 - 3.3 times the length as opposed to 2.1 - 2.9 in A. ocellaris). There are black varieties of A. ocellaris around Darwin, and the standard "black margin around the white bars" description does not hold -- even in Fautin's book, although she says this is one way to tell them apart, she then has a picture of A. ocellaris with black margins. The best way to tell them apart is the location from which they were collected, because the animals have non-overlapping distributions: If the clown comes from northwestern Australia towards the base of SE Asia, it's A. ocellaris. If it comes from Northern Queensland or Maelanesia, it's A. percula."

And remember, Toonen is originally from Alberta so he must be right. :mrgreen:

Perhaps part of the problem as well is that there are several variants of each recognized in the hobby, for A. ocellaris, the regular variant and the black variant, and for A. percula, the regular variant, the onyx variant and the Solomon Islands variant. Some individuals may believe the A. percula variants with large patches of black are the only variant of the species, and that all others are A. ocellaris.

[Bob I]

Thanks Quinn for the added confusion. :rolleyes: , now when I look at my fish, the ones I thought were A.percula are Ocellaris, and the Ocellaris are percula. That is going by the dorsal fin height. However, if we go by the usual price difference, it is still the other way around. The two sets are in different tanks, so it does not really matter I guess. :confused:

[Delphinus]

Well .. maybe I have it backwards then. I did another search on RC and NOW the first post I read says "clear=percula muddy=ocellaris". I'm also reading that the "muddiness" may be VERY subtle in some cases, not really showing up on photos.

Oh well. I tried to post something that was supposed to help. But I guess it didn't. Don't shoot the messenger.

[AJ_77]

It was as helpful as anything, Tony. :smile: I was just going to say, "Percula have more black." :mrgreen:

[Bob I]

You are right Alan. That is what I am going to say too. Even though a lot of descriptions say we are wrong. :lol:

[Quinn]

I think if you made a judgement based on number of rays, fin size, eye colour, and banding colour, you could make an educated guess. Maybe someone with a good background in statistics could even calculate the likelihood of being right, 19 times out of 20.

[Coldwater]

I am with AJ_77

Matt

[Bob I]

I am with AJ_77

Matt

As I said I am too. After all the fish know who they are, and unless we are breeding them it really does not matter. As far as I am concerned I have two Perculas in one tank, and two Ocellaris in the other. As to who is in what tank is immaterial. :biggrin: