Looking for opinions on using BioPellets

[brisco]

Are the benefits of biopellets worth the effort? Is the only reason to run a reactor to reduce Phosphate and Nitrate in order to have more live stock? Is there a poll on this? I have a small reactor ready to go and am just stalling putting it into action because everything is good in the tank right now, but would like to add more fish soon.

[kien]

I went ahead and promoted your question to its own thread since this can generate a completely different discussion from where you originally asked this question (in Douglas' thread regarding his bacteria film issue).

My answer to you would be, stalling is the correct approach. In the meantime, read up on BioPellets as much as you can, which looks like what you're doing anyway. BioPellets can work, but BioPellets can also crash your tank. Every thank is different and will react/behave differently to BioPellets.

In short, BioPellets reduce nitrates (and a bit of phosphates). This is good if you have high nitrates, but can be pointless if you already have low nitrates (from other methods) and can be bad if you reduce nitrates too quickly and shock your tank. If you do start to use them, start small and slowly.

Many people are able to reduce nitrates in other ways. Eg, low fish load, less feeding, water changes, other carbon sources, etc. If one or more of the above applies to you then you're already implementing another method for which BioPelllets were designed for, probably.

Keep an eye on your nitrates. If they are already at a level that you're happy with, then the old saying applies to you, "it ain't broke, so don't fix it!"

[kaboom]

Are the benefits of biopellets worth the effort? Is the only reason to run a reactor to reduce Phosphate and Nitrate in order to have more live stock? Is there a poll on this? I have a small reactor ready to go and am just stalling putting it into action because everything is good in the tank right now, but would like to add more fish soon.

Yes well worth the effort, there's virtually no intervention once it's setup, only maintenance is replenishing the pellets every few months as it depletes. In my experience, your fish will love the added amount of food you can feed whcih will help maintain their colors, and corals color will enhance and grow quicker from the excess food/bacteria which normally wouldn't be present in the tank. It's the best of both worlds, it allows you to feed more and at the same time helps polishes your water. My reactor was virtually zero touch once it was setup. I am looking for ways incorporate a bio pellet reactor without a skimmer, not sure if that will work yet. Hope that helps.

[kien]

Good point about the additional feeding. I too love to feed my fish, lots. I also think I have a fairly high bioload and without the pellets (when they run out), I definitely notice a spoke in nitrates.

[TimT]

I like to have my system as simple as possible as that way there is less to go wrong. I do not use bio pellets and a reactor to control Nitrates. I find that just using vodka/vinegar on a dosing pump is more than adequate to keep the nitrates manageable. For phosphate control I use a liquid Phosphate binder called Foz Down. I started making Foz Down as a way to help people have more success with their tanks. I found the ingredient in Foz Down to be very effective in managing Phosphates in my own systems and I was buying it in bulk. It is expensive for the higher grade. I made a size and concentration suitable for people to use which would not break the bank. LoL. An 8oz bottle which neutralizes 10.7 mg/l of Phosphate in a 180 gallon aquarium is 29.95 + shipping.

[kien]

I like to have my system as simple

I always find it quite fascinating how differently everyone interprets "simple". For me, I would consider dosing vodka/vinegar and foz more complicated. I'm not meaning to debate it here, just pointing out the differing perspectives that hobbysts have, especially when it comes to carbon dosing of any form :biggrin:

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

I always find it quite fascinating how differently everyone interprets "simple". For me, I would consider dosing vodka/vinegar and foz more complicated. I'm not meaning to debate it here, just pointing out the differing perspectives that hobbysts have, especially when it comes to carbon dosing of any form :biggrin:

I agree. To me, using hydroton in media reactors is far more "simple" than vodka dosing. Literally added the hydroton reactors 2 years ago and haven't touched it since. "Set it and forget it" at its most simple, imo. My nitrates have never been lower and my corals are thriving. Nothing to add. Nothing to adjust. It doesn't tumble or dissolve so I don't have to even replace my hydroton. It just keeps going and going and going:wink::biggrin:

I do dose FozDown to control phosphates, but I prefer to gurgle my own alcohol supply, rather than feed it to my tanks:wink:

[TimT]

One of the added benefits of dosing vodka vinegar is that you are creating waterborne bacteria. Your corals can then feed off them. I have a green and gold torch coral in a clients tank. It has added 10 new heads in about a year with no target feeding.

When you use a reactor in the sump you are not directly effecting the water in the display due to slow flow rates through the reactors. When you dose the vodka/vinegar and Foz Down it goes into the tank and can remove the nitrates and phosphates before the algae uses it. Thus starving the algae. Sometimes direct dosing of Foz Down into the display tank is the only way to get rid of stubborn algae.

[Ryan7]

If you want to remove nitrates: IMO the only way to go is Nitraguard Biocubes! Its simple, and proven highly effective. I have personally tested it against vinegar and bio pellets and would never turn back. None of the common complaints others have had with vinegar and bio pellets.

"One of the added benefits of dosing vodka vinegar is that you are creating waterborne bacteria. Your corals can then feed off them"

I would have to disagree that the bacteria is waterborne and feeding corals. Vodka/Vinegar is a carbon source that will feed the bacteria and aid in concentrating on a surface. Bio Pellets are a surface which is designed to promote habitat for the bacteria.

Nitraguard Bio-cubes have been designed around redfield ratio, essentially allowing you to remove nitrate if you have no available phosphate.

[brisco]

Back in the day...I used to run a wet/dry trickle filter through bioballs. The thought here was that water running through the plastic bioballs would give lots more surface area for bacteria to grow on. It seems that is the idea with the Hydroton and biopellets just build on that idea but give the bacteria a food source as well.

[whatcaneyedo]

The wet/dry trickle filter was meant to provide a surface area for aerobic bacteria to break down waste... the trouble with them was that in that environment the waste was broken down into nitrate. In a planted freshwater system that might have been fine but its exactly what you want to avoid in a reef tank. This is why we run skimmers on saltwater tanks, to remove the waste before it has a chance to breakdown into nitrate. Anaerobic bacteria is what we employ live rock and deep sand beds for. Its the bacteria that doesn't like oxygen but consumes nitrate.

[TimT]

I would have to disagree that the bacteria is waterborne and feeding corals. Vodka/Vinegar is a carbon source that will feed the bacteria and aid in concentrating on a surface. Bio Pellets are a surface which is designed to promote habitat for the bacteria.


I have personally observed a waterborne bacterial overgrowth. I installed a UV sterilizer on the system and all the haze was gone in the morning. Redox was down around 80mv during the haze.

Forms of bacterial overgrowth were linked to the specific type of carbon source in a post on RC. There was waterborne, surface and then stringy mucous. I have seen all three in tanks.

I like the dosing methodology as it's easier to control and change dosage if necessary.

[albert_dao]

Gonna agree with Tim here. You will get bacterial aggregation in the water column of a vodka dosed system given everything is done correctly (properly skimming, flow, no preexisting "bad" bacterial overgrowth, etc). Bacterial guilds can exist in amazing diversity in reef tanks and will occupy all strata given the opportunity.

[Etaloche]

So then can you run pellets to reduce nitrates and dose vodka like once in a while compared to every day to still promote water borne bacteria?

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

It seems that is the idea with the Hydroton and biopellets just build on that idea but give the bacteria a food source as well.

Actually wet/dry is purely for aerobic bacteria (ammonia & nitrite consuming) whereas Hydroton also provides an anaerobic environment inside the porous clay balls for nitrate consuming anaerobic bacteria. Wet/dry systems worked for fish only tanks but were nitrate factories so bad for reef tanks.

[Bugger]

I ran a wet dri with a reef never had any issues. It's totally fine to use unless somehow dead fish or full pieces of shrimp somehow end up in it

[albert_dao]

So then can you run pellets to reduce nitrates and dose vodka like once in a while compared to every day to still promote water borne bacteria?


They're both more or less doing the same thing. Bacteria are going to exist in equilibrium with the available food sources, so an overdose of carbon sources will cause cloudiness.

[brisco]

Actually wet/dry is purely for aerobic bacteria (ammonia & nitrite consuming) whereas Hydroton also provides an anaerobic environment inside the porous clay balls for nitrate consuming anaerobic bacteria. Wet/dry systems worked for fish only tanks but were nitrate factories so bad for reef tanks.

What I was getting at is that is Hyroton is similar in that it gives the beneficial bacteria a place to colonize, similar to a wet/dry, but I guess that it provides for both aerobic and anerobic. It does not provide a food source. It that all correct or I am missing something?

[Ryan7]

I have personally observed a waterborne bacterial overgrowth. I installed a UV sterilizer on the system and all the haze was gone in the morning. Redox was down around 80mv during the haze.

Forms of bacterial overgrowth were linked to the specific type of carbon source in a post on RC. There was waterborne, surface and then stringy mucous. I have seen all three in tanks.

I like the dosing methodology as it's easier to control and change dosage if necessary.

I am not disagreeing that bacteria can be waterborne, however, I do not believe our corals consume it, save for sponges, dusters ect..

The methodology for dosing vinegar/vodka is not to promote the bacteria to become waterborne, and if you are able to see it in your water column, the dosage is too high and has caused a bacteria bloom. This can actually brown out your corals, thus, my belief in that the corals are not consuming it.

Furthermore, I believe vinegar/vodka dosing also feeds Cyanobacteria, however, some research suggests that Vinegar does not. My experience has been both do.

Here is a good article on dosing and an excerpt from it:

http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index.php/current-issue/article/116-vinegar-dosing-methodology-for-the-marine-aquarium

"Scientific research has found that cyanobacterial growth does not increase when dosing vinegar (acetate), where it was found that ethanol dosing will increase cyanobacterial growth. Cyanobacteria produce PHA to store energy when needed. PHA is an ingredient in some biopellets. So cyanobacteria can utilize some if not all of the biopellets. Hobbyists who have dosed vinegar have reported less cyanobacterial problems compared to dosing biopellets & ethanol. This was my experience as well"

As someone who has tried and tested, vinegar/vodka dosing, bio-pellets and nitraguard bio-cubes. Bio-cubes are the only way to go.

[TimT]

I am not disagreeing that bacteria can be waterborne, however, I do not believe our corals consume it, save for sponges, dusters ect..

Here is a link discussing bacterial consumption by corals.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-01/eb/index.htm


Furthermore, I believe vinegar/vodka dosing also feeds Cyanobacteria, however, some research suggests that Vinegar does not. My experience has been both do.

I have experienced the opposite while dosing vodka/vinegar so I suspect there are other causative factors at work. I suspect that there must be several key ingredients to have a cyano bloom. Some of them being phosphate and high dissolved organics. I have noticed that certain times of year there are several complaints about cyano outbreaks so perhaps it's seasonal too? Just rambling here.

[Etaloche]

I actually think I did this recently when I decided to start dosing a bit of vodka in preparation to have pellets running. Must've dosed a little too much and woke up to hazy water and a copepod population explosion in my tank. The other thing I noticed is that the small bits of cyano and algae that started to grow completely disappeared. Seems as though the bacteria bloom over competed them for nutrients and starved them out or maybe the pods ate them? In any case in my experience the opposite happened where an overdose completely starved out the cyano. Didn't notice any browning and if anything my corals looked happier than ever once the water cleared up and light could penetrate the water properly again.