PDA

View Full Version : Herbie Questions


Madreefer
11-24-2015, 06:42 AM
So I was under the impression that once you set your Herbie drains up there is no need to touch it. I'm constantly adjusting mine and it's quite frustrating. This setup has been up for 2 years and I've had to adjust from day one. Sump is in the basement and return pump is a Reeflo Barracuda which I have dialled back. Returns are 1" and the 2 drains and 2 emergency drains are both 1 1/2".
I don't have the drains submerged in the sump water. I've tried them submerged and above the waterline in the sump and it doesn't seem to matter as I still have to watch the level in my overflow in my tank. It either rises or drops in the overflow? Any ideas on what the issue could be? I have to adjust weekly.

WarDog
11-24-2015, 07:09 AM
Weird, I haven't needed to adjust in 11 months. Are you using a gate valve?

Wheelman76
11-24-2015, 07:13 AM
It seems to work best with the drain line (with the gate valve)to be submerged under the water , the emergency line doesn't matter if it's underneath or not. The key for me so I'm not having to adjust it , is to always have a trickle running down the emergency all the times.

Wheelman76
11-24-2015, 07:15 AM
Also are you running 4 drains? 2 with a full syphon and two emergency drains?

duncangweller
11-24-2015, 07:35 AM
I had the same problem. I don't have an ATO and when my water level drops in the return chamber of my sump it is reflected in the overflow in the tank.

If I'm vigilant with ensuring my water level in my sump chamber is consistent then I don't have the problem.

Wheelman76
11-24-2015, 09:12 AM
I had the same problem. I don't have an ATO and when my water level drops in the return chamber of my sump it is reflected in the overflow in the tank.

If I'm vigilant with ensuring my water level in my sump chamber is consistent then I don't have the problem.


That's a good point as well , an ATO is a must with a herbie.

Madreefer
11-24-2015, 12:17 PM
Yep I have good quality gate valves and a ATO so my water level in my sump does not fluctuate.
My 2 syphon drains in the overflow are cut approximetly 6" below the 2 emergency drains and I like to keep the water in the overflow 3-4" above those. So no there is no trickle of water in the emergency drains (don't like the sound and don't trust it as i've had the tank overflow when I was not home so I had a really pi$$ed off wife)
Is there a chance it could be a problem with my return pump?
I've also just recently started using a filter sock again and I have noticed that as the sock gets dirty and does'nt allow water to flow out of it as fast it also has an influence on water in the overflow of tank.

Madreefer
11-25-2015, 12:31 AM
bump???

Myka
11-25-2015, 12:54 AM
I've found the best way to do it, considering your 4 drains is to have the gated drains cut low (like you have), then have the two emergency lines cut one 1" taller than the other. Put a 45 degree elbow on the top of the shorter one (make sure it's 1" shorter including the 45) and have a trickle going down the shorter one. The 45 keeps it much quieter and you're able to get a smaller trickle. I still end up adjusting mine every once in awhile, but not often.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/24/fa71b5150285caa3d63202deec61f553.jpg

Madreefer
11-25-2015, 01:20 AM
Yea I don't think that's not gonna work for me. The emergency drains are glued in and I won't be able to cut them down. Do you think not having a trickle in to the emergency drains may be the issue? I have tried it both ways and still have to adjust on a regular basis

Myka
11-25-2015, 02:01 AM
Yea I don't think that's not gonna work for me. The emergency drains are glued in and I won't be able to cut them down. Do you think not having a trickle in to the emergency drains may be the issue? I have tried it both ways and still have to adjust on a regular basis

IME it stays aligned for longer when there is a trickle in the emergency. You could use a roto zippy tool (Dremel) to cut the pipe from inside by going through the top. If you decide you don't like that, you can put a connector fitting on the end and it will be pretty much the same height it used to be.

don.ald
11-25-2015, 02:05 AM
I have a tank where I constantly have to adjust as well. When I use the trickle into the Emergency drain method its not long before it starts to trickle faster, then I have to adjust again. I also have a gate valve and all that...tried adjusting the return flow as well. Tried drain line submerged and above also. Noise isn't an issue for me so I just opened it up and let it rip.

Madreefer
11-25-2015, 02:16 AM
I have a tank where I constantly have to adjust as well. When I use the trickle into the Emergency drain method its not long before it starts to trickle faster, then I have to adjust again. I also have a gate valve and all that...tried adjusting the return flow as well. Tried drain line submerged and above also. Noise isn't an issue for me so I just opened it up and let it rip.

You've got your gate valves wide open?
And your return pump wide open?
I'm trying to have a slower flow in the sump for better skimming. But it's prolly not necessary as my skimmers no slump.

And Myka I thought bout your idea and may give it a go. It's just a pain in the a$$ to work on my tank. The top stands 6' high and its 30" wide. And of course up against a wall:lol:

Myka
11-25-2015, 03:21 AM
And Myka I thought bout your idea and may give it a go. It's just a pain in the a$$ to work on my tank. The top stands 6' high and its 30" wide. And of course up against a wall:lol:

Oh, fun stuff! Good luck! :)

I know from experience that having a gate valve on only one drain works a lot better than having it on two drains. I don't know why - probabaly some law of physics.

kien
11-25-2015, 04:39 AM
If it makes you feel any better (probably not), my tank is is 6 years old and the same herbie setup since day one, and I have to adjust mine from time to time. Maybe not every week, but periodically. In some cases I do know what causes the variability, and in some cases I don't. Here are the causes that I know for certain changes the flowrate and overflow water level:

1. gummed up overflow weir. Left too long and it gets gunk or algae in it which restricts the flow. Algae detaches from it on its own and it will GUSH. Sometimes feedings get trapped in the gummed up overflow weir (algae trap).

2. Something gummed up in the gate valve. See #1 above :lol:

3. Using a filter sock. It does strange things to the flow and fluid dynamics.

4. Dynamic changes in skimmer water level. My skimmer is on its own set of mystery parameters where by it will occasionally change water level which in turn affects the entire flow and fluid dynamics of the entire tank.

FishyFishy!
11-25-2015, 04:52 AM
I have the same issue. Probably once a month or so. Same goes with my skimmer etc. Everything always seems consistent, but im still adjusting from time to time. I use the emergency trickle as well. I find that works the best, and adds a little bit of surface skimming to boot.

I think kien is onto it. Little changes in where the water flows I think is the cause. Could be small, unoticable things. Thats what im thinking anyways.

I also have a theory that because I drip my kalk into my return chamber, that the pumps change their GPH over time as they get gummed up. Ive been vinegar bathing my return pumps more often in my maintenance routine, and that has really helped. Havent touched my valves in a while now.

gregzz4
11-25-2015, 05:04 AM
Hey Bill

My 2 cents after 3 years of running a Herbie;

I run my gate valve on my return pump, with a 'T' feeding it back into the sump.
This allows me to bleed off the excess pump flow to the sump.
Yes, I don't control the flow from the overflow, but rather I control the flow going to the returns.

I've been running my system this way for 3-coming up on 4 years now and it works great for me.
I did this in the first place because my return pump was overwhelming my drainage. My tank is too close in height to my sump.
Ever since I started controlling my return flow life is good.

So, to recap, instead of controlling your drain, control your return

Madreefer
11-25-2015, 06:41 AM
[QUOTE=gregzz4;971111]

instead of controlling your drain, control your return[/QUOTE

Yup I have a gate valve on my return as well.
Maybe i'll bring my water level up in my overflow so I have a trickle in my emergency. Just dont trust it as it's overflowed once before and I was assured that the emegency would handle it. The 2 emergency drains are teed in to one that drains in to the tank. I miss my Durso:sad:


Thanks for all the suggestions guys

Myka
11-25-2015, 01:57 PM
Kien brings up some really good points. My sumps have always been designed in a way that the water height where the overflow enters the sump doesn't fluctuate. I don't use socks either, I use a filter pad. I've always had my overflow under water in the sump.

I do occasionally adjust mine, maybe once every few weeks I have to dial it open a bit because I'm getting too much down the emergency, and it never fails that a few days later the main drain with the gate valve starts sucking air. I'm sure it's just a gob of something sitting on top of the gate valve. I know on my system, the gate valve is barely open at all. It seems like it's turned open a lot just by the number of turns, but when I remove it and look (it has a union above it) it's only open a fraction of the pipe diameter. Maybe that has something to do with it - that's been on a constant on my Herbie-plumbed tanks.

Hey Bill

My 2 cents after 3 years of running a Herbie;

[...]

So, to recap, instead of controlling your drain, control your return

Uh Greg, that's not a Herbie then. :mrgreen:

Madreefer
11-25-2015, 06:03 PM
Well it took me 4 hours last to get it dialled in to where I like it. And I slept on the couch in fear of a flood. I've got a good silent trickle. So far I haven't had to cut the emergency drains down and if it does come to that I think I'm just gonna cut some notches in the top of them instead. It took just a little under 10 gallons of water to raise up the water in my overflow to reach the emergency drains.