The dearth of spirited discussion

[IanWR]

Hi all,

It seems like reef forums have been getting very quiet over the past 2 years or so. Not just canreef, but even huge forums like RC. When I first started reading forums there were often lively discussions on any number of topics. It seems like outside of buy and sell most threads are "ID this critter/algae/coral" or newbie questions that have been asked a thousand times.

Where are the raging debates? The new technique? Some game changing gear?

I wonder if the hobby has developed to the point that many previous open questions have been closed, rendering debate moot. For example:

- Plenum/DSB/miracle mud systems are out, and have lost vocal proponents

- LED lights are a proven viable lighting system, leaving the debate of MH vs T5 vs LED to high end sps systems and which light (or combination of lights) bring out the best colour (with enough examples of great looking successful tanks using any combination to prove that any could work).

- siphon drain systems (Herbie or BA) are common. The most spirited debate is whether one should keep the open channel in a Herbie completely dry or run a slight trickle through it.

I'm sure we can think of any number of things that used to inspire heated words that now barely rate a comment.

Is this the new normal? Is there something on the horizon to be the next hotly contested thing? Or am I out to lunch on this whole thing, and things are as lively as they've ever been and it's me that has changed? 😄

[Reef Pilot]

When people are entrenched with their opinions and beliefs, what's the point of arguing? I still see people saying and doing stupid things (IMO) and then wonder why they lose fish, or their corals don't grow. I guess Einstein's old definition of insanity (doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results) will always live on...

[Aquattro]

No, I think you're pretty close. Also, with the increase in social media, lots of people tend to gather in local/regional pages and discuss stuff. Our local Victoria page is still fairly active, with all the newbie questions and concerns.

I also see a shift in hobbyist mentality. Most seem like they're too busy to participate, and simply use online resources as a place to buy or sell items. As you mentioned, most things ever wondered about are already talked to death, and can just be referenced. I don't need to ask anything, I can use Google and find someone that already asked it.

More and more I see a "what's in it for me" thought process. Where I have annually had reef meets/swaps at my place, less and less people came because there was nothing for them in the way of adding to their collection, or profits to be made. The idea of just gathering and chatting in person with like minded people seems to be lost. This year was the last year I'll be hosting this..

I know for me, as a long time hobbyist, the hobby no longer appeals to me the way it did 10 years ago. To be honest, I can't even say I like the hobby, or at least the people in it these days.

I've dropped from all but one Facebook group (only because I own the one group) and even my participation here has mostly stopped. I suspect that after the xmas holidays, I probably won't even come here anymore.

[Aquattro]

When people are entrenched with their opinions and beliefs, what's the point of arguing? I still see people saying and doing stupid things (IMO) and then wonder why they lose fish, or their corals don't grow. I guess Einstein's old definition of insanity (doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results) will always live on...

Ya, that's another one. And as the misinformation is passed, it gathers steam. I see often where someone will ask a question. I answer (with the tried and true right answer), but 10 people with less than 6 months give some other (stoopid) answer, and majority wins. So I give up. Figure it out yourself, like I did 20 years ago. Ya, it's going to cost you money and/or livestock losses, but hey, the Internet said that was right, so have at 'er!! :)

[Reef Pilot]

Well, with Canreef now, seems that vendors rule, and hobbyists are 2nd class... That why there are more and more moving to other facebook groups. Again, JMHO.

[Aquattro]

Well, with Canreef now, seems that vendors rule, and hobbyists are 2nd class... That why there are more and more moving to other facebook groups. Again, JMHO.

No, the status quo has never changed in all the years in operation.. And as stated in the OP, all boards are suffering the times. There's just a couple people here that think they should have greater privilege. This board, as is every board, is a business. It's customers are the ones that finance the operation. The members are guests, that while ultimately drive the business model, still guests and need to abide by the rules or find somewhere more suitable to their preferences. Yes, some FB groups provide that, while some have just as many rules/issues as boards. Just more variety. Will the forum model simply die out one day? Probably, yes. That's just times a changin, progress progressing.

However, that is NOT the topic of this thread, so let's not make it about that, k? :)

[Doug]

I suspect that after the xmas holidays, I probably won't even come here anymore.


:sad:

[Zoaelite]

Is this the new normal? Is there something on the horizon to be the next hotly contested thing? Or am I out to lunch on this whole thing, and things are as lively as they've ever been and it's me that has changed? ��

I will restrain my post to the effect on Canreef, as I have too little experience with other forums to form an opinion on forums in general.

Canreef used to be a community, and something pretty special (personally) as it was the major motivation for me in the hobby. In my opinion the lack of discussion isn't because the issues have been beat to death, rather the members have left (for a myriad of reasons, most of which have been listed).

Simply put I didn't come back for the discussion I came back for the community. When Canreef lost Doug it was very evident, when Canreef lost Denny it was even more so. Checking in now-a-days all I see is discussion between mods, which is disheartening as this forum used to captivate me entirely. Now I'm just back for the occasional sale thread and to reminisce about the glory days.

Just my 2 cents.

[Scythanith]

*LED vs MH vs T5*

I will start off by saying I have not used MH's over a reef tank, only a reptile tank :)

My progression of lighting has been PC's, T5's, LED's and the LED/T5 combo. I have never skimped and always bought/built the best version of each genre. The more recent debate in my mind is do LED's give the necessary spread/blend of light required for a thriving reef? They have the PAR/PUR power no doubt, but is it delivered in a fashion to truly compete with a good MH/Ballast/reflector combination?

I can't really say either way since I've never had the MH setup. But I have had a nice overdriven T5 system! I started my new tank with 3 x Mitras 6100's and eventually decided to add 4 x 48" T5's to help with shaded areas and maybe give the corals a little more spectrum to work with for colour. I like the current blend I have now but after seeing what one_divided could do in around a year in his current reef tank with MH lighting it really does make me think about adding a little MH supplementation to my system. I'd have a LED/T5/MH combination for lighting :) Best of all worlds.

Discuss!

[Ryanerickson]

*LED vs MH vs T5*

I will start off by saying I have not used MH's over a reef tank, only a reptile tank :)

My progression of lighting has been PC's, T5's, LED's and the LED/T5 combo. I have never skimped and always bought/built the best version of each genre. The more recent debate in my mind is do LED's give the necessary spread/blend of light required for a thriving reef? They have the PAR/PUR power no doubt, but is it delivered in a fashion to truly compete with a good MH/Ballast/reflector combination?

I can't really say either way since I've never had the MH setup. But I have had a nice overdriven T5 system! I started my new tank with 3 x Mitras 6100's and eventually decided to add 4 x 48" T5's to help with shaded areas and maybe give the corals a little more spectrum to work with for colour. I like the current blend I have now but after seeing what one_divided could do in around a year in his current reef tank with MH lighting it really does make me think about adding a little MH supplementation to my system. I'd have a LED/T5/MH combination for lighting :) Best of all worlds.

Discuss!
Really? this discussion is so dead

[somafish]

Dearth lol. That is all

[albert_dao]

I would argue that the nature of the internet has changed, and with it, so has the means of dialogue. Let's not forget that it's really only been widely accessible since the late 90's.
It's a bit like the video game industry - look at the type of games that are achieving success now vs. how they were back in the early 2000's.

TLDR - stuff changes.

[Scythanith]

Really? this discussion is so dead

And this is why I may stop coming here as well now. Nothing is dead, every topic can be debated and discussed.

[Aquattro]

And this is why I may stop coming here as well now.

Me too. Everyone knows MH is the best. Or at least everyone should. Pfft.

[albert_dao]

I would also mention that fiery opinions or debates, for whatever merit they may carry, tend to end up with a round of asinine circle-jerking before they die out. You only need to experience that so many times before you become numb to it.

[Aquattro]

I would also mention that fiery opinions or debates, for whatever merit they may carry, tend to end up with a round of asinine circle-jerking before they die out. You only need to experience that so many times before you become numb to it.

Ya, there's that :)

[IanWR]

I would also mention that fiery opinions or debates, for whatever merit they may carry, tend to end up with a round of asinine circle-jerking before they die out. You only need to experience that so many times before you become numb to it.

I agree, and I don't long for petty squabbles. I think I am surprised by how quickly standard practices have been settled. I must have started getting into the hobby at some sort of transition time (started looking into it about 5 years ago).

[lastlight]

Me too. Everyone knows MH is the best. Or at least everyone should. Pfft.

then why can't i sell mine? you want them? :biggrin:

[Aquattro]

then why can't i sell mine? you want them? :biggrin:

Wrong size, sorry :) I run 400w. Saw a post today where someone is looking for some. Browse around.

[Delphinus]

I used to frequently obsess over this hobby but lately I feel almost a bit pushed away from it, and one huge driver is the sheer cost of things compared to a decade ago. Whereas in the early days, there were lots of expensive things, there were also a lot of DIY attitudes and experimentation that made things fun. I don't seem to see a lot of that cowboy'ing anymore?

Now everytime I see a new product, first of all, there's pressure to "preorder" it before it's even hit the market; and odds are good that whatever it is, I can't afford it anyhow. Part of it is my own station in life, have kids now, other expenses other priorities etc. but my own subjective feel is that it just costs more now.

[Aquattro]

I find it's actually cheaper now. My original set of Tunze pumps cost $1000. I can move the same water now for a fraction of that. Many items haven't changed at all. Bulbs are cheaper, heaters, about the same, salt, about the same. Sure, all the new fancy gimmick toys cost more, but they aren't really needed. I'm actually surprised prices have stayed as constant, or in some cases, dropped as they have.

Only thing I see costing more are frags. Where 20 years ago I could buy a whole bucket of nice frags for 100 bucks, now I get one frag.

I think keeping reefs has also become much easier. When I started, it was a craft to get a nice SPS tank. You had to work at it. Now, it seems it's add water and stir. Takes the challenge out of it :)

My biggest thoughts these days are thoughts of envy when I see people posting shut down sales. Maybe another year or two for me, just to get this tank where I planned, then I'm done. Just tired of it all.

[F.H]

most things ever wondered about are already talked to death, and can just be referenced. I don't need to ask anything, I can use Google and find someone that already asked it.

Nail in the coffin. Why start up another thread on a topic already beat to death, and wait hours for responses, when you can just google the answer. I suspect it's because reefkeeping has reached a stalemate of sorts. People have found what works, almost turned it into an ehow webpage for dummies and until any game changing technologies or revolutionary techniques show up, there's not much else to ponder.

More and more I see a "what's in it for me" thought process. Where I have annually had reef meets/swaps at my place, less and less people came because there was nothing for them in the way of adding to their collection, or profits to be made. The idea of just gathering and chatting in person with like minded people seems to be lost. This year was the last year I'll be hosting this..

I suspect that after the xmas holidays, I probably won't even come here anymore.


As much as I have been a lurker on these forums, I've come to enjoy your posts, and as is with anything else, it might be healthy to take a small break, or vacation. But you can never truly quit. :mrgreen:

[squibege]

I used to frequently obsess over this hobby but lately I feel almost a bit pushed away from it, and one huge driver is the sheer cost of things compared to a decade ago. Whereas in the early days, there were lots of expensive things, there were also a lot of DIY attitudes and experimentation that made things fun. I don't seem to see a lot of that cowboy'ing anymore?

Now everytime I see a new product, first of all, there's pressure to "preorder" it before it's even hit the market; and odds are good that whatever it is, I can't afford it anyhow. Part of it is my own station in life, have kids now, other expenses other priorities etc. but my own subjective feel is that it just costs more now.

As a newbie I'm scared to attempt to DIY stuff.The fear of harming my tank is greater than my disappointment at shelling out $$. I saw a post on how to build a skimmer from an air stone and a waterbottle. I would WAY rather do that than spend a couple hundred bucks- but I don't trust being able to figure our how its working for my tank. Purchasing something a fancy company has poured R&D into just seems 'safer' even if it is way less fun.

Money is what has kept me at bay from starting up this hobby for years. :(

[Myka]

I've found in the last 5 years that there is so much more science behind it all that there isn't as much to debate in any given topic. There are more scientists involved, and papers you can read. There aren't any reef related scientists here or even members with associated degrees. I find all sorts of interesting topics on other forums where really qualified people can answer questions and not so much debate, but work as a group to figure things out. That's what I think is lacking at Canreef - REAL experts. The sponsors aren't as active as they used to be a few years ago either. Aside from good discussions on "new" topics, I like to read Tank Journals.

[jorjef]

In my opinion the lack of discussion isn't because the issues have been beat to death, rather the members have left (for a myriad of reasons, most of which have been listed).

I'm just back for the occasional sale thread and to reminisce about the old days.

I used to frequently obsess over this hobby but lately I feel almost a bit pushed away from it, and one huge driver is the sheer cost of things.

Now everytime I see a new product, first of all, there's pressure to "preorder" it before it's even hit the market; and odds are good that whatever it is, I can't afford it anyhow.

My biggest thoughts these days are thoughts of envy when I see people posting shut down sales. Maybe another year or two for me, just to get this tank where I planned, then I'm done. Just tired of it all.

All the above and the wholesale loss on all antagonistic posts that sometimes maaaayy have walked on the wrong side of the line but were usually meant in fun.... Most of the time but always lead to wonderful mayhem. So much fun.

Brad if you're not coming back after Chistmas I'm done....Ban me for the third and final time.

[Scythanith]

There aren't any reef related scientists here or even members with associated degrees.

Speak for yourself ;) 4 yr B.Sc. with Hon in Palaeobiology. I studied my fair share of fossilized vertebrates and invertebrates :)

But I know what you mean, I'm not elbow deep in the aquatic research tanks anymore.

[Myka]

Speak for yourself ;) 4 yr B.Sc. with Hon in Palaeobiology. I studied my fair share of fossilized vertebrates and invertebrates :)

But I know what you mean, I'm not elbow deep in the aquatic research tanks anymore.

I'm not sure that's directly relatable - except maybe Coelacanths. :D

[Madreefer]

I've found in the last 5 years that there is so much more science behind it all that there isn't as much to debate in any given topic. There are more scientists involved, and papers you can read. There aren't any reef related scientists here or even members with associated degrees. I find all sorts of interesting topics on other forums where really qualified people can answer questions and not so much debate, but work as a group to figure things out. That's what I think is lacking at Canreef - REAL experts. The sponsors aren't as active as they used to be a few years ago either. Aside from good discussions on "new" topics, I like to read Tank Journals.

Myself I would rather not read nor hear from scientists. They're write ups are totally boring and put me to sleep. I'd much rather hear from a hobbyist, it's easier and way more interesting as they speak in layman's terms. I've read so many posts from the cut copy and paste scientists and they are proven wrong so many times. People take this hobby way too far and it's really not as difficult as one thinks. It scares people away constantly hearing that scientific talk. That and the cost of the hobby.

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Well locally, almost all the old-timer fellow reefers I knew in the early 2000s have since quit, completely downsized or are in a holding pattern (ie. not changing anything & no longer participating much). For me, not having my buddies in this hobby anymore is a real bummer. I understand though because life happens. When things change, like having kids or kids growing old and more involved in extracurricular activities, its hard to stay focused and devote a lot of time to reefing. Also, sometimes work is just so busy that there's little time to do more than take a quick look at the "New Posts" items and then back to work.

[Aquattro]

Brad if you're not coming back after Chistmas I'm done....Ban me for the third and final time.

Maybe for Xmas, ok? lol

[Myka]

Myself I would rather not read nor hear from scientists. They're write ups are totally boring and put me to sleep. I'd much rather hear from a hobbyist, it's easier and way more interesting as they speak in layman's terms. I've read so many posts from the cut copy and paste scientists and they are proven wrong so many times. People take this hobby way too far and it's really not as difficult as one thinks. It scares people away constantly hearing that scientific talk. That and the cost of the hobby.

Oh I love when I read something I don't understand. That means I have to go learn something. I find it way more interesting to try to extract bits and pieces and apply it to some new methodology or using that information to define anecdotal evidence.

[Reef Pilot]

Well, I could talk more about why canreef might be declining, but my knuckles are getting sore from being rapped so much. And oh, this was supposed to be a topic about spirited discussions...

I will still say though, that it is the experienced hobbyists that make this forum great. I myself was very inspired with some of the tanks and pics I have seen here. Talk and opinion is sometimes interesting (incl the drama), but what really means the most to me is demonstrated success with journals and pics.

Science is great, but as others have said, it can be lost in the interpretation and may not always be applicable, or practical, and feasible to the regular hobbyist. And even right here on this forum, have seen some abominable examples of so called scientists (or students in the field) that have totally messed up their tanks with misguided applications of their theoretical assumptions.

So, for me proven success is what matters most. And sure would hate to see those people leave the forum.

[Ram3500]

I think Canreef was the most exciting when the buy and sell popped up in Active Threads.It made for a very active page. I felt that I always had to be checking back to in fear of missing some great deal.
I understand that the vendors maybe didn't like this in fear that they were losing out on business but they are wrong. A more active fourm will only draw more clicks in the Vendor Forums driving customer to there web pages. More users on canreef = more $ in the vendors pockets.

[Skimmer Juice]

I assumed the boards were slow due to the time of year but also think the boards slowed down when the buy/sell rules changed. I know of a couple members that quit coming on here at that point . Also been reading about people leaving the hobby/not enjoying it anymore quit a bit. To be honest this is my main forum I go to reef central once in a while to read through the shallow tank club thread and the pipefish/seahorse thread as there is not much pipefish activity on here . Discussion can get burned out when there is limited activity IMO I'm sure it will pick up . Also agree that topics have reached a point where a lot of info can be found by googling , when I started the info was not out there like it is now . To be honest even though the questions may get repetitive it's still better to ask in a thread as you may find out something you were not directly looking for . Im just glad after 11 years in the hobby Im still excited as ever with the hobby , really hope that the day where the hobby does not interest me at all never comes .

[Aquattro]

I think Canreef was the most exciting when the buy and sell popped up in Active Threads.It made for a very active page. I felt that I always had to be checking back to in fear of missing some great deal.
I understand that the vendors maybe didn't like this in fear that they were losing out on business but they are wrong. A more active fourm will only draw more clicks in the Vendor Forums driving customer to there web pages. More users on canreef = more $ in the vendors pockets.

All I get in new posts in buy/sell. Not sure what you mean about active posts?

[Aquattro]

All I get in new posts in buy/sell. Not sure what you mean about active posts?

Oh, I see what you might be doing. I simply navigate the site by clicking new posts. It's all there.

[somafish]

Sounds like a lot of jaded folks on here! What could we do to make it more entertaining on the site, coral auctions? More vendor give aways? I thought it was pretty awesome when I had a chance to go to MACNA, actually I think Concept is the only vendor I have seen offer anything for free

[Ram3500]

When viewing the fourm on my iphone or ipad there is no new post tab available. I am sure I am not the only person on ios. I wonder how is appears
on android

http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o794/groundhogdog/5393395E-39A8-4F20-8495-99A71F5D86C0_zpsyilefse6.png (http://s1343.photobucket.com/user/groundhogdog/media/5393395E-39A8-4F20-8495-99A71F5D86C0_zpsyilefse6.png.html)

[Ryanerickson]

You have to be logged in to see the new post tab

[Reef Pilot]

When viewing the fourm on my iphone or ipad there is no new post tab available. I am sure I am not the only person on ios. I wonder how is appears
on android


I think you have to be logged on before the New Posts tab appears.

[Aquattro]

I think you have to be logged on before the New Posts tab appears.

Correct.

[Ram3500]

Ok lol haha . :redface: Am I correct that there was a time when the new posts would appear under active threads ? Or did you always have to hit the new post Tab ?

[Aquattro]

Ok lol haha . :redface: Am I correct that there was a time when the new posts would appear under active threads ? Or did you always have to hit the new post Tab ?

I don't recall ever changing anything, pretty sure it's always been this way. I could be wrong, but I don't remember us changing it.

[sphelps]

Oh, I see what you might be doing. I simply navigate the site by clicking new posts. It's all there.

It's not the same, it requires an extra click which sometimes isn't worth the extra effort.


I gave up reefing a while ago, maybe for good or maybe not. At any rate I stick around because I like the community and I myself owe a lot to it as I've grown a tremendous amount since I first joined being that I'm only a partial ignorant douche now. At any rate I can occasionally still offer good advice and enjoy a good build thread. That said I'm visiting less and less and I agree with what has already been said. To add to it, a lot of what feeds this forum are the build threads and the sense of importance each author achieves. Most threads these days are essentially a repeat with original builds being much harder to achieve, this drives down viewer interest and respective comments which drives interest down in general. Low comments = low updates = low bumps = low activity. This causes tank owners to use other sources to show off their work and get that attention they crave. This craving for importance is what drives a lot people after all and it is what fuels social media, not just in this hobby but most aspects of life. As said time is a changing, move on or be left behind.

[Scythanith]

I'm not sure that's directly relatable - except maybe Coelacanths. :D

Biological science is pretty widespread. Understanding the evolution and development of a vertebrate embryo translates across a pretty wide range of fields :)

There is a lot of chemistry on keeping a reef healthy. Do you need to have a Ph. D. in organic chem to understand it all? Nope. I personally feel a moderate knowledge of life sciences can allow anyone to grasp everything you need to know about keeping a tank healthy and flourishing.

Now the practice of doing such is completely different. Many people can understand something but cannot capitalize on that knowledge.

And I wish I would have been at the Smithsonian in Washington to see the Coelacanth :) An old invertebrate palaeontology professor of mine works there now and could have had a pretty sweet tour!

[Scythanith]

It's not the same, it requires an extra click which sometimes isn't worth the extra effort.


I gave up reefing a while ago, maybe for good or maybe not. At any rate I stick around because I like the community and I myself owe a lot to it as I've grown a tremendous amount since I first joined being that I'm only a partial ignorant douche now. At any rate I can occasionally still offer good advice and enjoy a good build thread. That said I'm visiting less and less and I agree with what has already been said. To add to it, a lot of what feeds this forum are the build threads and the sense of importance each author achieves. Most threads these days are essentially a repeat with original builds being much harder to achieve, this drives down viewer interest and respective comments which drives interest down in general. Low comments = low updates = low bumps = low activity. This causes tank owners to use other sources to show off their work and get that attention they crave. This craving for importance is what drives a lot people after all and it is what fuels social media, not just in this hobby but most aspects of life. As said time is a changing, move on or be left behind.

:clap2:

I think that pretty much hit the nail on the head.

I just wanted to talk about lights....

[jorjef]

All the above and the wholesale loss on all antagonistic posts that sometimes maaaayy have walked on the wrong side of the line but were usually meant in fun.... Most of the time but always lead to wonderful mayhem. So much fun.

Brad if you're not coming back after Chistmas I'm done....Ban me for the third and final time.


I think it's time......it's like stale bread, cardboard cookies, or soggy chips... It's time :sad:

[Aquattro]

I think it's time......it's like stale bread, cardboard cookies, or soggy chips... It's time :sad:

You'll keep suffering with the rest of us. Suck it up.

[jorjef]

You'll keep suffering with the rest of us. Suck it up.

Maybe a poll would help cheer me up.

[Aquattro]

Maybe a poll would help cheer me up.

There's a new one now. I picked Richmond at 5

[jorjef]

There's a new one now. I picked Richmond at 5

Ya I was Vancouver but changed to Surrey.... Greg says I cant go. :sad:

[Aquattro]

Ya I was Vancouver but changed to Surrey.... Greg says I cant go. :sad:

Greg's not the boss of us..

[jorjef]

Greg's not the boss of us..

He's kinda bossy, rude, crude, with a complete dearth of sensitivity to other people's feelings..... It's a cruel world, don't make it worse Gregory...

[Aquattro]

He's kinda bossy, rude, crude, with a complete dearth of sensitivity to other people's feelings..... It's a cruel world, don't make it worse Gregory...

meh, just knock him through a window.

[jorjef]

meh, just knock him through a window.

Once poll two and three are complete, spread sheets drawn up, analyzed,publicly posted and scrutinized. I may have a locale to attempt said action.....

[Aquattro]

Once poll two and three are complete, spread sheets drawn up, analyzed,publicly posted and scrutinized. I may have a locale to attempt said action.....

It'll change last minute :)

[jorjef]

It'll change last minute :)

Good thing there's a poll...:lol:

[Aquattro]

Good thing there's a poll...:lol:

I thought you were kidding about #2 and 3. lol.

[jorjef]

I thought you were kidding about #2 and 3. lol.

No sir.....kinda thinking there should be some government funds funnelling into a project this size.....It's serious business.

[Ian]

As someone who is just back after stepping way from the forums and hobby for a few years I am surprised at the change in the feel here on Canreef. This forum spurred me to go from 1 29 gallon biocube to around 500 gallons of multiple tank syndrome! Now I have the same cube running and am debating if I really want to put that fish room in the new house into action!

[Aquattro]

As someone who is just back after stepping way from the forums and hobby for a few years I am surprised at the change in the feel here on Canreef. This forum spurred me to go from 1 29 gallon biocube to around 500 gallons of multiple tank syndrome! Now I have the same cube running and am debating if I really want to put that fish room in the new house into action!

I know what you mean. I don't even want the tank I have anymore!!

[hillegom]

doldrums

a spell of listlessness or despondency

[Dearth]

This is funny I just got finished reading about the same exact thing on Reef Central about where the community is and what has happened

I believe it is a combination of several things with social media, local community forums and long time members being less active leading the charge to quieter forums

Social media- in the last 8 years this has grown by leaps and bounds and with the sheer volume of information available on the 'net even with a basic search can turn up a massive amount of information. The downside to this media is as we all know the Internet never lies so people just getting into the hobby get led astray by false information because they don't have reliable sources like canreef, reef central and other forum sites to fall back on because they either don't know about the forum or listen to bad advice on the net and easily become frustrated and overwhelmed with information overload.

Local community- this particular form of media has been a recent addition to the world of the reef hobby. While local community forums and groups have been around for a long time it has only recently taken off in part due to social media. It is easier to connect for many people to a local reefer than someone from another city because in part they can meet these people face to face and get the info they need from the local reef experts per se.

The long time reefers/contributors- this is the hardest one as the backbone of many forums are built on the dedication of those who first started in the hobby and everything was new. This forum has been around for 14 years now I believe and many of the people who were around when it started up have moved on, dropped out of the hobby or just lurk now because they have seen it all, hashed it out before and get annoyed by the same question asked 40 times a day (for example how many posts have there been about bristle worms). I have been in the hobby for three years now and I started on 7 forums now I am down to 3 Canreef, RC and Reef to Reef. Canreef is the only one I visit daily now and visit the other 2 mostly for Shiits and giggles.

The End result is how to keep people interested and how to keep the site current and engage new people to the hobby and more important how to engage the long time members to keep them interested in the site. This is something that every forum struggles with and luckily I believe Canreef has kept up with the curve because if it hadn't the forum would of shut down long ago.

The trick is to evolve and embrace all three of the above mentioned in new avenues keep pace with social media.

that's my ramble for today:lol::lol::lol:

[albert_dao]

:lol::lol:

Uniquely appropriate username within this context.

[Dearth]

Uniquely appropriate username within this context.

Yup the significance of the title wasn't lost on me 😎

[Aquattro]

The trick is to evolve and embrace all three of the above mentioned in new avenues keep pace with social media.

that's my ramble for today:lol::lol::lol:

All good points, and things we've been looking at. The new staff have been working on new ideas to liven things up and so far doing a good job. We've added auctions, the newsletter which turned out great (you got the vendor coupon codes I hope!) and we expect to see more features going forward.

While I'm stepping back here shortly, I have committed to manage the FB page and try to keep things active there, as we have a lot of people there that don't even come to the board. The "dearth of discussion" there is even a bit more lively and permissive, and I hope we can grow that aspect of Canreef more next year.

All forums suffer the same fate with the introduction of social media, and we are trying to remain engaging to compete with that. Feature tanks, threads, etc, things that aren't as easy to run on FB.

As for the board itself, yes, we have to contain some of the chatter, as it has gotten out of hand at times. We have a few members that are vocal in complaining when things get suppressed, but we also get lots of PMs thanking us for making it a friendlier and more welcoming environment. We have to remember that there is a lowest common denominator in pleasing as many members as we can. We have men women and kids coming here, and some topics/discussions just can't be here. Overall I think our membership is one of the best I've seen on a public forum, and almost without exception, the members conduct themselves well. Sure, we have to monitor and shut some things down, and yes, we may go too far in the other direction sometimes, but we really do try to provide balance to appeal to the most people we can.

Even within the staff team, we often disagree with where a line gets drawn, so we usually have to reach a compromise, again showing you can't make everyone completely happy all the time. We can and do try to make as many as possible as reasonably happy as we can, without chasing others away. It's never perfect, but it's the best we an do with what we have.

In the end, we all, on the team, try to make this about you guys, and while we don't always get it right, we do try and correct errors we make and find balance. It's a work in progress :)

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Brad,

Please don't go. But if you do, know that all your time and effort here on Canreef is deeply appreciated by the membership. Hope you and your family have a very Merry Christmas.

Anthony

[Aquattro]

Brad,

Please don't go. But if you do, know that all your time and effort here on Canreef is deeply appreciated by the membership. Hope you and your family have a very Merry Christmas.

Anthony

Anthony, I'll still be here, but as just a regular guy. I'll mostly stay out of the moderating stuff unless something goes horribly wrong. I'll manage the FB page, and still post my annoying funny sarcasm, just trying to let the younger, more enthusiastic team take the reins. Honestly, they're doing great, and Canreef will be better for it.

[Dearth]

Anthony, I'll still be here, but as just a regular guy. I'll mostly stay out of the moderating stuff unless something goes horribly wrong. I'll manage the FB page, and still post my annoying funny sarcasm, just trying to let the younger, more enthusiastic team take the reins. Honestly, they're doing great, and Canreef will be better for it.

In other words your old and grumpy need more naps.....

[Aquattro]

In other words your old and grumpy need more naps.....

If you want to use less words, ya, that.

[Doug]

In other words your old and grumpy need more naps.....


:lol: Now you know why Im not a regular staff member anymore......:lol:

[Aquattro]

:lol: Now you know why Im not a regular staff member anymore......:lol:

More fiber Doug, that'll make you regular..

[Dearth]

More fiber Doug, that'll make you regular..

I also heard that eating smaller and more meals per day will make you regularly visit as well😎😎

[Aquattro]

I also heard that eating smaller and more meals per day will make you regularly visit as well😎😎

doubt that. :) I hear lots of things that aren't true lol

[Dearth]

doubt that. :) I hear lots of things that aren't true lol

But I got it off the internet it must be true.......😈😈😈