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View Full Version : Hi, Newbie Here, In Planning and Research Stage


TripleT
09-05-2015, 08:57 PM
Been doing lots of reading and planning for a noob reef setup.
Have read thru Christy's 180 Build and have lots of questions. So here I go:


plans include 90g tank, sump and 20g refugium - what size should sump be?
Looking at Octopus 150SS or similar skimmer
No idea as to what pump to use, or flow rates to achieve.
Would like to have sand bed, so, is use of egg crate to stabilize base imperative?
Led lighting with appropriate controllers.
What heater(s) to use?

That's it so far. I have bred cichlids in the past and had two successful tanks years ago. And as addictions go, this one is pretty healthy!


Also, how effective would the refugium keep algae growths non-existent. I have read that a lot of blooms happen that need chems and treatments that seem to be rather daunting at this point.


Thanks for the forum,
Terry

WarDog
09-06-2015, 07:43 AM
Hi Terry, welcome to Canreef!

Are you planning a sump in the stand, or a remote location?

TripleT
09-06-2015, 04:44 PM
It all depends on which room I will be able to commandeer...:biggrin:
Also, it depends on when my grown children are going to move out. For the second time! :question: As this would free up two rooms in the house and my wife could move her sewing room back to her sewing room This timeline will give me enough planning time to collect all parts. Only problem is that I have no room to store anything right now, the basement is full of furniture and boxes.:pout:

Am I correct in planning a 30g sump for a 90g tank? Or is that too small?
Initially, the sump was going to be part of the refugium, however, I like the idea of a separate sump external from the aquarium and stand.

The refugium will be in the stand.

I'm thinking that this will give me the external access to add reactors and qtank at a later date. (if needed)

Enough rambling for now!
Cheers....

intarsiabox
09-06-2015, 05:20 PM
For sump sizing you first need to have an idea of what skimmer you want to make sure you have enough room to support its footprint. Another thing I always consider when designing a sump is that I ensure there is enough spare room to hold the water from the display tank that will siphon back in a power outage. Some people rely on check valves for this but they are highly prone to failure and require frequent cleaning or they will bypass. Check valves are handy for doing sump maintenance but I personally like the peace of mind when I'm not at home that my tank won't flood my house. Filter sock holders are also really nice to have in the sump but take up more space. The return section of the sump is the only chamber that will fluctuate due to evaporation. If you are using an automatic top-off system or not will determine how big you want to make this section of the sump. If you make it bigger you can still add the ATO at a later date.

Flow through the sump doesn't have to be great, around 5x the tank volume is ample. I had a Mag9.5 in my 90g that worked great. The return pump shouldn't be your primary source of water movement in the display tank, use powerheads or some type of wavemaker for this.

Bobothemonk
09-07-2015, 07:08 AM
Are you saying you want a tank and then a refugium for macro algae in the stand and then another sump outside the stand? so 3 areas?

Will noise be an issue?

If I could go back id try to set it up with refugium / sump / any external tanks in the basement as close to drain as possible. I would drill holes in walls and floors to do it.

I think the idea of a sump / refugium separate and all in the same room will be a headache down the road. More info.. main floor? carpet? Theres alot of hard lessons learned out there. More info so we can relate with personal experience.

Id think sump in stand with a refugium outside that drain to sump is best idea. You could place it near window for extra light and treat it like another tank with a common sump.

Aquattro
09-07-2015, 02:45 PM
I wouldn't over complicate things for your first setup. Largest sump that can fit under stand. You don't need refugium, it's added work IMO. Remote sumps tend to get neglected, keep everything together.

I have about 2.5x flow through sump. Works well, all I need is water to pass through for skimming, other filtration as used.

That skimmer is ok for reasonable bio-load

Eggcrate is NOT needed and the worst thing I did on my last build. Rocks will sit fine using gravity.

Heaters, I prefer undersized x 2. If one fails off, you still have enough to not get critical. If one fails on, hopefully not strong enough to kill things.

Lighting should be determined only after you decide what you plan to keep. Lighting is expensive, so best to buy it once.

Plan out how to automate top-off and water changes, 2 of the biggest PIA chores if it's not made simple. War Dog had a good write-up on his water change setup.

TripleT
09-08-2015, 10:18 PM
I wouldn't over complicate things for your first setup. Largest sump that can fit under stand. You don't need refugium, it's added work IMO. Remote sumps tend to get neglected, keep everything together.

I have about 2.5x flow through sump. Works well, all I need is water to pass through for skimming, other filtration as used.

That skimmer is ok for reasonable bio-load

Eggcrate is NOT needed and the worst thing I did on my last build. Rocks will sit fine using gravity.

Heaters, I prefer undersized x 2. If one fails off, you still have enough to not get critical. If one fails on, hopefully not strong enough to kill things.

Lighting should be determined only after you decide what you plan to keep. Lighting is expensive, so best to buy it once.

Plan out how to automate top-off and water changes, 2 of the biggest PIA chores if it's not made simple. War Dog had a good write-up on his water change setup.

Hey, thanks...
I like the idea of redundant heaters:biggrin:
Can you tell me why no egg crate for sand. My reasoning, to stop goby from displacing all sand from open spaces in tank.
I am reading this thread: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1541946 right now. And it is long...

Terry

SeaHorse_Fanatic
09-08-2015, 10:50 PM
Hey, thanks...
I like the idea of redundant heaters:biggrin:
Can you tell me why no egg crate for sand. My reasoning, to stop goby from displacing all sand from open spaces in tank.
I am reading this thread: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1541946 right now. And it is long...

Terry

Because you'll end up seeing egg crate when the goby and powerheads blow the sand off, leaving bare patches. Unless your sand bed is quite deep, having bare patches with visible, unsightly egg crate is very likely.

I would also plan on using as big a sump tank as can fit in your stand, which would allow you to have one section set up for your skimmer & other equipment and a second section for a refugium and a third section for a return pump. A large sump tank has the benefit of giving you more "wiggle room" in case of power outage cause your sump can hold more water draining from your display tank without overflowing. A small sump makes fitting a good sized skimmer a potential issue, as well as increases the risk of overflowing if power is shut off and water drains down.

For instance, if you use a 50g breeder (36" x 18" x 18"), you could have a skimmer section (set up by siliconing a baffle 8" or 9" tall to the bottom and sides) that is 18" x 18" (which is big enough for any size skimmer you would ever need for your 90g). Siliconing the first baffle to the sump bottom creates a stable water level for your skimmer to improve overall skimmer efficiency.

Then on the other end of your sump, about 6" from the end, you could silicone another baffle raised about a cm or two off the bottom and only attached on the sides. This would serve as your return pump section (18" x 6" which is again bigger than any return pump you would need for this tank). This then creates a middle refugium section that is 18" x 12" where you could grow your cheato or other macro-algae. If using a small return, you could even leave that space only 4" wide, leaving you with a 18" x 14" refugium section. The refugium section in the middle, along with the raised second baffle also helps eliminate any microbubbles from your skimmer in the first section (known as the skimmer box).

Hope this sump design explanation is understandable. Having the refugium separate creates another potential point for failure or leakage, so incorporating a refugium section into a bigger sump tank eliminates that risk and your need to have a separate pump to feed your "remote" or separate refugium.

Alternatively, if you could fit an even bigger sump tank inside your stand, you could add one full size baffle and create a reservoir for freshwater for your auto-top-off in a fourth section.

Aquattro
09-08-2015, 10:54 PM
I found that it was often exposed and created little 1/4" packets of compressed sand in each hole. It limits available space for sand dwelling critters unless you're using a lot of sand. It didn't do much for rock stability IMO, compared to many other tanks where I didn't use it. Upon removing it, the sand packed into the holes was very dark and stinky, not a healthy sand bed. I don't even quite recall why I used it, and a couple years into the tank, I wish I hadn't. Once it's there, it doesn't come out unless you empty the entire tank.
In the end, I think it adds complexity and potential issues and doesn't give any benefit to these costs.
If you really don't trust gravity to hold the rocks in place, add a small square of eggcrate to the bottom of rocks using putty or whatever.

mike31154
09-09-2015, 03:06 AM
I used some large diameter ABS pipe cut into slices with holes in the sides of the slices to allow some measure of circulation to support my rockwork. Next time around I will likely cut them into half slices like this & silicone them to the bottom.

https://tsl4pa.bl3302.livefilestore.com/y3pFHdK58n7dnThgSOSnwWLaD2SOmNHv5b8zYzdjLA8otxzgWA fg16Kb4oFlU44n9gUqOaH9W-rD3eIhweIIRktVeEHYxXvrC_vtckZqxT4CJdzJAjhz1b7TYDlz NeV8Tc5/P1010733.jpg?psid=1

The pipe I used on the current tank kept floating up, turns out it is buoyant. Will take a bit of planning, but now is the time to do it, with an empty tank. I suppose one could simply scatter a few of these all over the bottom & play around with setting up the rocks. If they get exposed later by sand movers, the black won't be quite as obtrusive & will eventually be covered in coralline. Strategically placed to support each rock, they shouldn't be easily exposed. If they really become an eyesore, easier to remove than a large piece of egg crate. Large diameter white PVC pipe could be an option as well.

TripleT
09-15-2015, 09:26 PM
Wow, going from fresh to salt seems pretty daunting!

Some great success stories, and nasty failures...

Time and patience seems the most prudent protocol, however, MSEEPMAN'S 290g reef tank is something else! Incredible, fantastic and scary... yikes!

Mechanically I'm good. What's scary: All the DOSING. :surprise: Thanks Roskoreef :lol: Beautiful setup though, and wish u continued success!

So far,
90g-120g in wall display tank.
Bean Animal shore to shore siphon setup. (where to pick up those screened elbows in Calgary?)
Separate sump and separate refugium.
Bubble Magus Curve 7 Skimmer.

Also. I like the idea of only using eggcrate to hold the rocks in place. Thanks Aquattro!

Terry

TripleT
10-24-2015, 08:14 PM
Latest score! Need info as to which tubes hook up to what. And source for new filter housing.
I plan on using the tank for directing drinking water to the dispensing tap via a diverting valve in the line to the RO water tank of 50gal. Is this possible with this setup?
http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/picture.php?albumid=971&pictureid=7029
Thanks,
Terry

Aquattro
10-24-2015, 09:03 PM
Also. I like the idea of only using eggcrate to hold the rocks in place. Thanks Aquattro!

Terry

No. Backwards. Eggcrate sucks. I'd never use it again. Use gravity to hold rocks in place, it's free and much more aesthetic.