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Doug
08-28-2015, 05:31 PM
Upon closer examination and some reading, it appears the disease my fish had or have was velvet. That would explain why my mandarin died also.

How the heck does it occur when no new fish added?
Can it be caused by stress from whatever was irritating my corals to extinction?
I have a couple fish in my display like my bangaii, that seem resistant. How do I get it out of my show tank without a period of no fish?

Lastly...:frusty:

SeaHorse_Fanatic
08-28-2015, 06:45 PM
Sorry, as far as I know, only early diagnosis and treatment with a copper based medication eliminates velvet. Had it once really bad. Bad enough I almost quit the hobby.

Slyguy00
08-28-2015, 09:13 PM
Velvet can come in on new frags, live rock or anything else you add to your tank. Not just on fish. Sorry to hear, im currently treating my fish for ich in a qt.

albert_dao
08-28-2015, 09:27 PM
Pfft, Velvet sometimes just happens spontaneously. I've seen it in maintenance tanks that haven't had any new additions for months. I have suspicions that it can either lay dormant for extended periods or can be introduced via food. I've also noticed that a big velvet infestation can cause extreme distress to corals. Perhaps velvet is a key vector in total system (not just fish) wipeouts?

Slyguy00
08-28-2015, 09:29 PM
Interesting theory

albert_dao
08-28-2015, 09:35 PM
Interesting theory

Hypothesis.

Doug
08-28-2015, 10:39 PM
Pfft, Velvet sometimes just happens spontaneously. I've seen it in maintenance tanks that haven't had any new additions for months. I have suspicions that it can either lay dormant for extended periods or can be introduced via food. I've also noticed that a big velvet infestation can cause extreme distress to corals. Perhaps velvet is a key vector in total system (not just fish) wipeouts?

That makes the most sense, even if it is a hypothesis. Its exactly my case, coincedense or not.

Reef Pilot
08-28-2015, 11:22 PM
Pfft, Velvet sometimes just happens spontaneously. I've seen it in maintenance tanks that haven't had any new additions for months. I have suspicions that it can either lay dormant for extended periods or can be introduced via food. I've also noticed that a big velvet infestation can cause extreme distress to corals. Perhaps velvet is a key vector in total system (not just fish) wipeouts?
Ich can hide in a tank for a lot longer than a few months, as long as there are fish present. And not uncommon for hobbyists to mistake ich for velvet, especially with an aggressive outbreak. But under the right conditions, ich can indeed overcome healthy fish, and quickly wipe out most of your fish. Even moving them to a fully acclimated mature QT will likely fail unless you do it early on at the first signs of the disease.

And your correlation with velvet and corals may have more to do with poor tank conditions that affected both the fish (which made them more susceptible) and corals. Unsubstantiated theories just add to the confusion and myths with these diseases as described in the article I posted on the other thread.

In the end, prevention is still the best course with QT (or tank transfer with fish) for both corals and fish.

Reef Pilot
08-28-2015, 11:24 PM
That makes the most sense, even if it is a hypothesis. Its exactly my case, coincedense or not.
Doug, you said that you added corals. That's a pretty obvious smoking gun...

albert_dao
08-29-2015, 02:02 AM
Ich can hide in a tank for a lot longer than a few months, as long as there are fish present. And not uncommon for hobbyists to mistake ich for velvet, especially with an aggressive outbreak. But under the right conditions, ich can indeed overcome healthy fish, and quickly wipe out most of your fish. Even moving them to a fully acclimated mature QT will likely fail unless you do it early on at the first signs of the disease.

And your correlation with velvet and corals may have more to do with poor tank conditions that affected both the fish (which made them more susceptible) and corals. Unsubstantiated theories just add to the confusion and myths with these diseases as described in the article I posted on the other thread.

In the end, prevention is still the best course with QT (or tank transfer with fish) for both corals and fish.

OK, guess I'll duck out of the discussion then. I'll go spread my wuju elsewhere. Like an Antivaccer community.

Reef Pilot
08-29-2015, 02:11 AM
OK, guess I'll duck out of the discussion then. I'll go spread my wuju elsewhere. Like an Antivaccer community.
OK, (good guy) Albert, but hard to tell when you're joking sometimes (as when I first read your "hypothesis")...

albert_dao
08-29-2015, 08:55 AM
OK, (good guy) Albert, but hard to tell when you're joking sometimes (as when I first read your "hypothesis")...

I get it, you think I'm an idiot. We don't have to interact.

Reef Pilot
08-29-2015, 03:08 PM
I get it, you think I'm an idiot. We don't have to interact.
Oh come on, Albert, you know that isn't true. Very much the opposite, actually, as I well know and appreciate your experience and knowledge. And I wouldn't have razzed you if I thought you would be offended. My apologies...

Doug
08-29-2015, 05:52 PM
:lalala:

Slyguy00
08-29-2015, 07:06 PM
:pop2::drinking:

hillegom
08-29-2015, 08:16 PM
lol

Doug
09-18-2015, 06:35 PM
If the fish one has left beat it and seem to be immune, how long until you can add new fish. Can it hang around forever? Will my immune fish still carry the parasite? And so forth.

Aquattro
09-18-2015, 07:06 PM
If the fish one has left beat it and seem to be immune, how long until you can add new fish. Can it hang around forever? Will my immune fish still carry the parasite? And so forth.

I can't read back through all that mess, so I'll pick up here. If you had a fish exposed, and not treated that appears to have developed an immunity, I would not add other fish to the tank with it.
Remove it, treat it, and leave the tank for 3 months. Then add newly QT'ed fish to the system.

Doug
09-18-2015, 07:14 PM
I can't read back through all that mess, so I'll pick up here. If you had a fish exposed, and not treated that appears to have developed an immunity, I would not add other fish to the tank with it.
Remove it, treat it, and leave the tank for 3 months. Then add newly QT'ed fish to the system.

Good grief. Thats sucks. Maybe I will just keep the few immune fish. Im going to read your thread again.

Doug
09-18-2015, 07:15 PM
I curse who ever gave this to my fish. I have had flatworms and fish die but nothing like this. Its enough to drive one from the hobby.

Aquattro
09-18-2015, 07:23 PM
I got lucky. My "immune" fish jumped out of the tank. I then left it 3 months. Worked out well. Are you attached to that fish?? :)

Doug
09-18-2015, 07:26 PM
I got lucky. My "immune" fish jumped out of the tank. I then left it 3 months. Worked out well. Are you attached to that fish?? :)

I have three. Two clowns and a bangaii. Its killed all the fish I was attached to, including my 15yr. old percs. No Im not attached to any of them but not sure with the amount of rock I have how to catch them, even with the Bradamatic drain method. :smile:

Guess take down the reef also and try not kill to many corals. Mine are to stupid to jump out.

Doug
09-19-2015, 03:45 AM
Im guessing I can treat with cupramine?

Aquattro
09-19-2015, 04:31 AM
Im guessing I can treat with cupramine?

Apparently. I've never done it, but copper is an effective med. You need to test levels and stuff though, if I recall. No calcareous substrate either. Pretty sure..:)

Doug
09-19-2015, 04:35 AM
Apparently. I've never done it, but copper is an effective med. You need to test levels and stuff though, if I recall. No calcareous substrate either. Pretty sure..:)

Oh is that right. I put some extra live rock in there for biological filtration as I have 4 fishies going in. Wonder if that affects it?

Doug
09-19-2015, 04:44 AM
Just read it could affect the absorption & release in the water.I think Im going to leave it in. Tomm is drain & catch day..Blah

Doug
09-19-2015, 08:16 PM
With the help of a good friend & Brads super drain & catch your fish technique, my fish are removed and in quarantine. Just inverts & corals in the tank. Bought some cupramine today.
Now hope I don't kill my fish anyways.

jimbo222
09-19-2015, 09:30 PM
Sorry about the losses and troubles . Glad your not giving up.
I had a velvet outbreak once before as well .
Cupramine saved all my remaining fish . It works great .
Lots of oxygen in the quarantine .also found cupramine will make the fish loose appetite . So don't give up , I had a hawkish not eat for about 8 days in quarantine , but still survived.
As for biological filtration cupramine will kill everything. So you have to rely on water changes. But the rock is good for the fish to feel more comfortable . Just make sure you toss it out when your done.

Doug
09-19-2015, 11:06 PM
Sorry about the losses and troubles . Glad your not giving up.
I had a velvet outbreak once before as well .
Cupramine saved all my remaining fish . It works great .
Lots of oxygen in the quarantine .also found cupramine will make the fish loose appetite . So don't give up , I had a hawkish not eat for about 8 days in quarantine , but still survived.
As for biological filtration cupramine will kill everything. So you have to rely on water changes. But the rock is good for the fish to feel more comfortable . Just make sure you toss it out when your done.

Thanks. Now theres something I never knew. It kills biological filtration. Good grief. What else. If you do large water changes, then your copper level is getting all screwed around. Trying to find a test kit, is like pulling teeth.

Aquattro
09-19-2015, 11:15 PM
Thanks. Now theres something I never knew. It kills biological filtration. Good grief. What else. If you do large water changes, then your copper level is getting all screwed around. Trying to find a test kit, is like pulling teeth.

If you can wait a week or so, I can send you some CP instead. Easier to manage. I fly out tomorrow, but back on 29th.

Doug
09-19-2015, 11:32 PM
I can wait Brad. I just added cupramine but can remove it for now.. I have Poly filters cleaning it out

Aquattro
09-20-2015, 12:14 AM
K, I'll touch base when I get back and send some up.

gregzz4
09-20-2015, 12:37 AM
I just added cupramine ... I have Poly filters cleaning it out
Doug, are you meaning you are going to remove the cupramine with regular poly filters?
If so I'd suggest getting some carbon in there, or some cuprasorb if you can get your hands on it.
Good luck with your headaches.

PS, I bought some CP off E-bay. Probably not lab grade but arrived in less than a week.
Honestly I haven't used it yet, just wanted it for the 'medicine cabinet'

Doug
09-20-2015, 02:09 AM
Doug, are you meaning you are going to remove the cupramine with regular poly filters?
If so I'd suggest getting some carbon in there, or some cuprasorb if you can get your hands on it.
Good luck with your headaches.

PS, I bought some CP off E-bay. Probably not lab grade but arrived in less than a week.
Honestly I haven't used it yet, just wanted it for the 'medicine cabinet'


Thanks. Poly filters are likley the best filtration media out there. And I do have a large bag of Chemi Pure in there also.
http://www.aquariumsupplies.ca/absorbents-resins-c-1_2_6.html

gregzz4
09-20-2015, 08:40 PM
Ah, you mean the Poly Pad thingys

Doug
09-21-2015, 12:32 AM
Ah, you mean the Poly Pad thingys

yup

maron6977
09-21-2015, 06:04 AM
Just found this thread
My god , if you didn't have bad luck, you wouldn't have any luck at all !!!

Doug
09-21-2015, 08:01 PM
Just found this thread
My god , if you didn't have bad luck, you wouldn't have any luck at all !!!

Thanks you. Could not have said it better.