Need lighting advice from my fellow reefers...

[bulletsworld]

I'm trying to decide on whether to buy a used lighting unit. Need your advice to tell me what you think, if good deal, pro's and con's. As it would be my first MH unit, pretty silly hey. Well pick a way and convince me to go with it or not to go with it. I would love to hear all your advice. Since all I can think of is how much better my tank will look and how my pods, fish and anemone will love me if I flourish them with the closest thing to real live SUNNNNNNN!



My tank is 48"L X 16"W X 20" H (Tank is a 77 gal)

Used Lighting system is:
Hamilton 2 x 175W 10, 000k MH & 2x 40W power compact blue actinics.
Dimensions of fixture: 48inch length X 13inch width X 6inch height
it's got 1 fan on one side, and a filtering thin sponge thingy on the
other for trapping dust and what not
- one metal halide ballast (magnetic I believe) and the dimensions are:
15inch length X 7inch width X 4inch height
- one power compact ballast (also magnetic I think)
- the fixture is black aluminum with high quality electro-white reflector
and UV filtering acrilic lens
- the lights are about 7-8 months old, so you may need to replace.
Asking $400 on this fixture.

Help! Need your thoughts reefers!


:mrgreen:

[bulletsworld]

Also any ideas as to if having MH was a big dent on anyones power bill? Was it a noticable difference?

:mrgreen:

[Reefhawk1]

Hi there The set up sounds ok to me a little pricy for used though , I have a set up I purchased from Toronto. New Ushio 10,000k bulbs were only 85 dollars each Canadian plus shipping. The Only problem with buying a used unit is there is no warranty on the ballast and your bulbs might have to be replaced in a few months. I live in a apartment and I can definatly notice a change in my power bill. I am running a duel 175 watt set up with 55 watt pc bulbs. The power bill has gone up by 35 dollars a month, its worth it though my corals a thriving compared to when I was using power compact bulbs.
Here is the web site if you are interested. My ballast came with a 2 year warranty and it was alot cheaper than JL aquatics.

http://www.cooltouchlighting.com/index.asp

[mr_alberta]

Hey Lee! Finally bringing out the big guns eh?? :lol:

You may be able to do it a little bit cheaper via DIY, but I'm not sure if
you want to go there or not....

I've also heard some good things about Cool Touch Lighting and the good thing about them is that they are based in Canada, so no silly brokerage fees if you order from them!

The lighting for $400 isn't the greatest deal as you can almost DIY it for a little more and with new bulbs:

2x175W PFO TAR ballast $189 (JL's)
2xPFO 24" reflector&socket assembly $175.90 (JL's)
2x175W ARC 20000K bulbs $80 (aquaria Canada)

TOTAL: $444.90 (excluding taxes and shipping)
This might actually be cheaper than the Cool Touch setup since bulbs need to be purchased separately and all their prices, I believe, are in USD.

So, for $50 more than the used get up, you could get a whole new system (without the florescent lights though). A bonus though, is that the PFO reflectors I listed above are suppose to be some of the best on the market. Also, with such a high Kelvin bulb, you probably wouldn't need any actinics (unless you want to do the daylight/dusk effect).

[Quinn]

Lee have you ruled out the possibility of going with 250w?

[mr_alberta]

Actually Lee,

If you want to go all the way to 400W, you can talk to Jim...he has some old 400W ballasts lying around (don't know how much he'd want for them though)...and the bulbs would be like $80 for 2....then you'd just need the reflector and a standoffs for the mogul sockets.

[Richer]

Just to add to the convo... if you want to save some more cash (and don't want to go farther than 175 watts), you can always go and buy yourself a couple of M57 ballasts. I got two from Bartle and Gibson for 62.70 bucks each. They don't look pretty, but they run my 175 watt ushios just fine... If you want casings for them, I would talk to Jim, the guy has a bunch of MH casings laying around his garage.

-Richer

[bulletsworld]

Aw….see you guys are all great! I knew I asked the best people. Just when others in the household here just don’t under stand. :lol: Thanks for your replies guys.


I live in a apartment and I can definatly notice a change in my power bill. I am running a duel 175 watt set up with 55 watt pc bulbs. The power bill has gone up by 35 dollars a month, its worth it though my corals a thriving compared to when I was using power compact bulbs.Here is the web site if you are interested.

Reefhawk1 – I just love your avater, it is SOOoOoo adorable! I’ve been meaning to tell yeah everytime I seen it.

So hey thanks for the site, I’m have been totally checking it out. Hey $35 dollars extra a month you noticed on your power bill? I figured $10 maybe $ 20 but I guess hey, just enough to burn our apartments down regardless hey. :lol: Curious what everyone else has experianced with there power bill?


Hey Lee! Finally bringing out the big guns eh?? :lol:

:lol: :lol: Well after seeing you guys tanks it made me what Bigger, BRIGHTER, MORE corals! Make my lil wee guy grow! Its you guys fault. Well that’s the story I’m telling my BF anyway. :lol:

Yeah DIY units, I’m not sure about. Can’t say I would know what I’m doing. So I think that’s why I thought of going with a already assembled unit.


Lee have you ruled out the possibility of going with 250w?

I was thinking for the 77 gal I would start with dual 175w and figured that was all I would really need as long as I stayed away from SPS corals though, hey. But call me silly I’m into the softies lately. It will pass I’m sure then I will kick myself in the @ss.

[bulletsworld]

Just to add to the convo... if you want to save some more cash (and don't want to go farther than 175 watts), you can always go and buy yourself a couple of M57 ballasts. I got two from Bartle and Gibson for 62.70 bucks each. They don't look pretty, but they run my 175 watt ushios just fine... If you want casings for them, I would talk to Jim, the guy has a bunch of MH casings laying around his garage.-Richer

Hmm...... Bartle and Gibson sells ballasts? Pondering the thought of the DIY units now. Hmm.... :cool:

[Quinn]

Richer how are those ones compared to the ones HD sells?

[BMW Rider]

The power bill has gone up by 35 dollars a month, its worth it though my corals a thriving compared to when I was using power compact bulbs.

http://www.cooltouchlighting.com/index.asp

I know that story, mine jumped nearly $50 per month with the new reef tank. My wife was a little stressed out for the first couple of months with that. Now I pay the bill instead of her. I'm trying to cut my power consumption in other areas of the house with energy efficient lights and such.

I did the DIY thing for my lights. I'm running 2 x 250W MH on Icecap ballasts and 2 x 96W PC - 1 actinic and 1 6500k. I bought the kits from J&L, then built the hood myself from 1/2" plywood. It does help that I have a full workshop to build in, but if you can get the wood cut when you buy it, you should be able to assemble it at home. If you like, I still have the drawings for mine, and I could send you them with a cut-list as well.

[Beverly]

I was thinking for the 77 gal I would start with dual 175w and figured that was all I would really need as long as I stayed away from SPS corals though, hey.

With a 20" high tank, you can have SPS corals with 175w bulbs :biggrin: The actinic PCs are a bonus, imo :cool:

And don't let those DIY guys get you going on a project if you don't know anything about electrical and woodworking stuff. The idea of having a reef tank is that the whole package looks great, lighting included. I've seen pics of DIY lighting projects that look, well, crappy, even though they might work like a charm.

Hamilton light fixtures look great if they've been well cared for. We currently have two of them and have used them on past tanks. The fixture you describe sounds great, but I wouldn't buy it used unless you can knock the price down considering you'll have to replace bulbs and tubes shortly. Also, don't buy it unless you can see it to make sure it looks new and is in good working condition.

Edit: Don't worry about an increase in power consumption. This is our hobby. It's supposed to cost money :mrgreen:

[Richer]

If I wasn't so lazy with my "hood" you couldn't even tell my lights were DIY... but you would be asking me why there's a "computer" sitting beside the tank :mrgreen: .

teevee - I've looked around before, but never found a HD that sold MH ballasts, so I can't compare.

-Richer

[mr_alberta]

Ah, just do a couple of pendants and be done with it..... :mrgreen:

[Bob I]

I would have to agree with Beverley. 400 bucks for a complete Hamilton fixture sounds like a good deal, and eight month old bulbs should have quite a bit of life left in them. The first DIY post has some serious shortcomings, as the price of the unit does not have an enclosure factored in, nor the cost of shipping. (I paid close to $70.00 for an Arc bulb once the shipping was added) :eek: . BTW, I don't like that Arc 20000K bulb one bit.

As an example I have two PFO pendants with two Ice Cap 175W electronic ballasts on two different tanks. Once you add shipping costs and bulbs you are looking at around $800.00. :mrgreen:

[bulletsworld]

Wow, you reefers are AWESOME! Great ideas and comments, Thanks a SUPER bunch for all your replies. You have been a big help!

It’s very overwhelming though with different bulbs, ballasts, reflectors, retrofits, then making the custom canopy, acrylic UV shield, fans and then not getting electrocuted or not burning my apartment down. :lol: . I think I agree with Beverly & Bob here, DIY lighting project seems fun but I don’t know anything about electrical, woodworking and the tools that help make the units. :lol: I could just see what it would look like now if I built it. :lol: :lol:

:mrgreen:

[bulletsworld]

If I wasn't so lazy with my "hood" you couldn't even tell my lights were DIY... but you would be asking me why there's a "computer" sitting beside the tank :mrgreen: .-Richer

KEWL!!! Now I’m totally curious about the computer. Tell more! It’s for monitoring? Any pic’s? Even though totally off topic, unless…does it help run lights? :lol: :lol:


I know that story, mine jumped nearly $50 per month with the new reef tank. My wife was a little stressed out for the first couple of months with that. Now I pay the bill instead of her.

:shocked!: I guess its a good thing I pay the bill already, that way I could just slide the cost in. :lol: I just gotta keep focused! My little anemone, fishy, invert friends NEED me. They NEED SUN! I gotta get new lights, I just gotta despite any extra costs of lighting. :multi: Anyone else in with a noticeable dent in their power bill due to when they hooked up MH lighting?

:mrgreen:

[kuatto]

With 75 light bulbs in the house and my kids never turning a light off,I never really noticed my 250 mh bulb on my power bill :mrgreen: I'm thinking motion sensers for their rooms :razz:

[Richer]

KEWL!!! Now I’m totally curious about the computer. Tell more! It’s for monitoring? Any pic’s? Even though totally off topic, unless…does it help run lights? :lol: :lol:


Thats the best part of my DIY lighting... there's actually no computer in the computer case, just a couple of MH ballasts running my lights, and a powersupply running my auto topoff. The fans in my case keep my ballasts cool to the touch, and it looks spiffy at the same time... at least it will be once I finish modifications to the thing (I hope). :mrgreen:

-Richer

[Beverly]

Jim,

It takes persistance to teach kids to turn off the lights. I was taught to do so, and if I'm not in a room, there ain't no light on. Taught my daughter to do it too. Still trying to teach DH Chris, though :agrue:

[Bob I]

I added things gradually, so there was never a jump in my power bill. I still don't pay more than $60.00 per month. :biggrin:

[Bob I]

I could just see what it would look like now if I built it. :lol: :lol:

:mrgreen:

Hmmm, you want to know. :question: , I wonder who built Beth's :question: :razz:

[Reefhawk1]

Like my pooch huh :biggrin: he's my crazy little boy. I forgot to mention that the MH lighting is a good heat source in winter and torchure in summer but its still a great light source for corals. Setting up for a metal halide system is going to be expensive but don't rush into any unit right away, shop around and find something that will fit your budget. My total light fixture cost me 500 after I was finished building it. Have you tried looking on ebay.ca you may possibly find something on there you never know.


Stan

[Invigor]

BTW, I don't like that Arc 20000K bulb one bit.

poop. I just bought 2 of those... :cry:

[bulletsworld]

Like my pooch huh :biggrin: he's my crazy little boy. I forgot to mention that the MH lighting is a good heat source in winter and torchure in summer but its still a great light source for corals.

Hey Stan,
I Love your pooch! He's SOoOOOoo adorable! I WANT HIM! :lol: What's your pooch's name? Hey did you say you live in an apartment? Hey ME TOO but they don't let me have a (dog) cutie like that. I sure miss my puppy, I'm green with Envy now! :mrgreen: Hey any chance you can bring him (your pooch) as your date to the next reef meet. :lol: Ah, COME ON BEV! Pooch is a reefer to! :lol: :lol:

With the MH lighting I can imagine it will be a good heat source in the winter and a torchure in the summer. :eek:

[bulletsworld]

[/quote] Thats the best part of my DIY lighting... there's actually no computer in the computer case, just a couple of MH ballasts running my lights, and a powersupply running my auto topoff. The fans in my case keep my ballasts cool to the touch, and it looks spiffy at the same time... at least it will be once I finish modifications to the thing (I hope). :mrgreen: -Richer[/quote]

Hey thats a neat idea. You will definately have to post pics when your done. Would love to see.

:mrgreen:

[bulletsworld]

With 75 light bulbs in the house and my kids never turning a light off,I never really noticed my 250 mh bulb on my power bill :mrgreen: I'm thinking motion sensers for their rooms :razz:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

GOod idea Jim!

[Beverly]

Hey any chance you can bring him (your pooch) as your date to the next reef meet. :lol: Ah, COME ON BEV! Pooch is a reefer to! :lol: :lol:

Next meeting can be at your place, Leeanne :biggrin: Then EVERYBODY can bring their pooches :cool:

[Bob I]

BTW, I don't like that Arc 20000K bulb one bit.

poop. I just bought 2 of those... :cry:

Here's what I found. The bulb lacks what I call "punch" I have found it to be a dull, insipiid blue. Things look lifeless, and the longer I use it the worse it becomes. I have another PFO pendant on the way, and as soon as it arrives I will be going back to my Aqualine 14000K bulb. ( I can't wait) :eek:

[bulletsworld]

Hey any chance you can bring him (your pooch) as your date to the next reef meet. :lol: Ah, COME ON BEV! Pooch is a reefer to! :lol: :lol:

Next meeting can be at your place, Leeanne :biggrin: Then EVERYBODY can bring their pooches :cool:

:multi: YEAH! YEAH! GREAT IDEA! :multi:


But then again second thought....umm.....actually ...yeah :eek:... yeah that wouldn't be good. :lol: :lol:

[Invigor]

BTW, I don't like that Arc 20000K bulb one bit.

poop. I just bought 2 of those... :cry:

Here's what I found. The bulb lacks what I call "punch" I have found it to be a dull, insipiid blue. Things look lifeless, and the longer I use it the worse it becomes. I have another PFO pendant on the way, and as soon as it arrives I will be going back to my Aqualine 14000K bulb. ( I can't wait) :eek:

I ordered the 14k but they were outta stock. so Ivan asked me to try the 20k so I said ok...I shoulda went with 10k... :| I'm sure it's still a step up from 200w of pc lighting! at least I hope it is! this is my first crack at MH lighting, my next trial will probably be 10k ushios or something of the like..

[Reefhawk1]

My dogs name is Rudy and he is a 5 year old American bulldog. Unfortunatly he dosen't live with me at this time. That was a recent picture on a trip back home to Vancouver Island. I wont be bringing him out for another year when I buy a house. :biggrin:

[bulletsworld]

Awww......His name is Rudy! Well he's a cutie-pa-tootie!
Sad that man is away from his best friend. :frown: Well hurry buy the house then you can have your buddy Rudy back and get BIGGER, MORE TANKS and then you can host a meeting!

:mrgreen: :mrgreen:

[bulletsworld]

Hey guys,
I took some of your advice and decided that the Hamilton 2 x 175W 10, 000k MH & 2x 40W power compact blue actinics if were alittle cheaper I would go for it. So I offered $350.00 instead and.... HE ACCEPTED! :multi: I'm so excited! My first MH's ! If I knew how to post pic's so you can see then I would. Thanks for all your help guys.

Question for you guys though. The guy selling them told me the MH bulbs & PC blue actinics are all Coralife bulbs? He told me he wasn't sure about if other bulbs that are compatible? :question: :eek:

Where do you get Coralife MH bulbs? Any ideas prices? :question:

[EmilyB]

Coralife? :rolleyes:

Okay, my suggestion is a 250w system. With actinics - VHO would be awesome. You will never regret that.

[Bob I]

Hey guys,
I took some of your advice and decided that the Hamilton 2 x 175W 10, 000k MH & 2x 40W power compact blue actinics if were alittle cheaper I would go for it. So I offered $350.00 instead and.... HE ACCEPTED! :multi: I'm so excited! My first MH's ! If I knew how to post pic's so you can see then I would. Thanks for all your help guys.

Question for you guys though. The guy selling them told me the MH bulbs & PC blue actinics are all Coralife bulbs? He told me he wasn't sure about if other bulbs that are compatible? :question: :eek:

Where do you get Coralife MH bulbs? Any ideas prices? :question:

The only place I have ever seen Coralife bulbs is Big Al's. They are horrendously expensive. That said, you don't need Coralife bulbs. Most bulbs should be fine. If the ballast runs 10000K now, it will run all 10000K bulbs.
I have a couple of 6500K Coralife bulbs that are six months old if you need them. :eek: :biggrin:

[Bob I]

BTW you may want to look at Brad's sticky on posting pictures in the "pictures" forum :biggrin:

[mr_alberta]

You might need to find out what type of ballast you have (the ANSI code). Even though all bulbs should fire properly on most ballasts, some bulbs may have starting problems (i.e. they don't start up right away or flicker).

See here for which bulbs are compatible with which ballasts:
http://www.aquarium-lighting-guide.com/metal-halide-ansi

[bulletsworld]

hey thanks guys!


I have a couple of 6500K Coralife bulbs that are six months old if you need them. :eek: :biggrin:
Bob, I may be interested in your actinic's what you want for those used things. :lol: Thanks for the tip on where to get Coralife. Big Al's I bet will be super expensive. I'll go check it out.


You might need to find out what type of ballast you have (the ANSI code). Even though all bulbs should fire properly on most ballasts, some bulbs may have starting problems (i.e. they don't start up right away or flicker)

Hey Harvey,
Wow, thanks for the link for the lighting guide. AWESOME! Just one question... :question: Where do you think the ANSI code would be displayed on the lights? The ballast? Since the unit is in Vancouver. :eek: Where can I tell the guy to look?

Thanks guys for all your help. You guys are Awesome! *HUGS* :mrgreen:

[mr_alberta]

The ANSI code would be on the ballast itself (he'd most likely have to open up the ballast box).

I really wouldn't stress out too over the ANSI codes and whatnot though.

Wow, a 20000K 175W Coralife bulb from Big Al's online is $250.00 :eek:
It'd be cheaper to replace the whole pendant instead of buying replacement bulbs! :lol:

[bulletsworld]

Actually after reading the reference guide I imagine the ANSI code is probably M57. Hey on the link its got a column called Ballast Type (i.g Pulse, Probe, HQI and MV/MH) Have any idea what it really means? Like what’s a Probe ballast type? Sorry all new to this. :rolleyes:

Also looking for your opinions, thoughts & experiences on the following bulbs:

Coralife 175W 10,000K
Hamilton 175W 10,000K
Venture 175 10, 000K
XM (never heard of on list ) 175 10, 000K

Also curious as to where everyone buys their bulbs from? :question:



:mrgreen: I'm so excited about lights I can't work! :lol:

[mr_alberta]

MV = Mercury Vapor (if you look on JL's, it will be listed as "EYE" and are used only (as far as I know) for the Iwasaki 6500K bulbs.

HQI ballasts are typically used with double ended Metal Halide bulbs, but I believe the can be used with some mogul end bulbs (i.e. Radiums), but overdrives them giving them more output, but a shorter lifespan.

Pulse and Probe are another two different ways that Metal Halide ballasts can ignite metal halide bulbs, one requires a ballast and capacitor and the other requires a ballast, capacitor and a starter (I think that's what its called). Don't ask me which one is which though since I can't remember :redface:

Then there are electronic ballasts which can act as all of the above type ballasts (don't ask me how those work either).

Are you running actinics on this? If not you may want to consider higher kelvin bulbs. If you are, then 10000K should work well. I would skip the Coralife bulbs. The most popular brands of bulbs seem to be:

Ushio
Aqualine Bushke (aka AB) (love their 250W DE bulbs)
Hamilton (hear their 14000K is out of this world!)
CoralVue (currently running a 12000K 250W DE on my tank)
Giesmann/BLV (though I don't know if they make 175W bulbs)
XM
Radiums (Dez uses these on his bowfront)

I've heard mostly good things about all of the above bulbs, but they are usually more costly. The cheaper bulbs include Sun Aquatics, Venture and a few others. I've owned and run a Sun Aquatics 175W 10000K bulb and thought the color was nice (but dim). Quite a few other reefers have had problems with them being very yellow (almost 5500K yellow) though.

Also, remember that the color of the bulb may change a little after the initial "breaking in" or "burn in" time which is typically 100hrs or so. Oh, and remember to acclimatize your corals to the new light. You don't want them to go through light shock and bleach.

[Richer]

I use 10 000k 175w ushio bulbs supplemented with a 95W VHO actinic on my tank.

Here's a pic of my xenia patch before the bulbs were burned in:

http://www.telusplanet.net/public/metroopt/Aquarium/Saltwater/xenia3.jpg
As you can see, its pretty yellow even with the 95W actinic.

Here's a pic of the same xenia patch after the bulbs were burned in:

http://www.telusplanet.net/public/metroopt/Aquarium/Saltwater/Sept30/xenia4.jpg
Quite an improvement in colour IMO.

Both pictures were taken with the same camera on the same setting.

-Richer

[bulletsworld]

Also, remember that the color of the bulb may change a little after the initial "breaking in" or "burn in" time which is typically 100hrs or so. Oh, and remember to acclimatize your corals to the new light. You don't want them to go through light shock and bleach.

Good to know, good to know! Thanks! My brain is just absorbing away! :biggrin: Thanks a bunch for posting those pic's Richer! Thanks for showing me! Absorbing rally good info. :biggrin:

Also yeah acclimatize your corals to the new lights. I was thinking about that. :eek: Hmm..... How did everyone start off when they got their new MH lighting?

[bulletsworld]

:shocked!: OMG! the MH lights are expensive hey! Coralife @ Big Al's for 175 W 10K $219.99 for one! :eek: Hamiltons 175W 10K @ J&L's $124.00 each. Ahhh I see where they bend you over in this hobby :lol:

Bev told me a place to check but it has totally slipped my mine. What do you pay for bulbs for your hamilton's, Bev?

Where do you buy your lighting from everyone? :question:

[Bob I]

I thought the bulbs were coming with the fixture. If the ballast is M57 (unlikely) It would be better to go with XM's as they are supposed to work well with M57 ballasts. I myself use Aqualine 10000K' s which actually test out at 14000K. I get mine from Premium Aquatics. I have had good success with them. I always get my stuff shipped by way of the USPS. No hassle with customs. I always pay just GST and the $5.00 handling charge. :biggrin:

[mr_alberta]

Yes, purchasing bulbs from the US always seems cheaper. They often have a much wider selection as well.

[bulletsworld]

O.h no.... I guess my friend told me he checked out these used lights for me.

I guess the guy selling the unit was told when he bought the lighting that the lights were Hamilton. They are infact Coralife. The actinic blues are 40watt normal output, NOT power compacts. All other specs are correct.

So the actinic's are normal output, any difference really? And the unit is Coralife lighting, any good? Would love your thoughts and opinions!

Tanks a SUPER BUNCH in Advance!

:mrgreen:

[Beverly]

Bev told me a place to check but it has totally slipped my mine. What do you pay for bulbs for your hamilton's, Bev?

We buy certain bulbs/tubes in bulk from Commercial Lighting located on the south side. Don't have their address on hand, but they're in the phone book. They only sell in bulk. Our Hamilton Tech 175w 6500K MHs come from J&L. We usually buy two at a time and pay whatever they ask :neutral: If we were to order the MHs from Commercial Lighting, we could get the bulbs for less, though I don't know how much less. But the problem with that is we would have to order in bulk which would be 6 or 8 bulbs at a time :eek:

[mr_alberta]

I like the Coralife PC fixtures, but really don't know anything about thier MH fixtures. Sorry Lee, can't help you there. Try snooping around on RC, I'm sure someone there has used it at some point.