Tank is slipping into algae hell - help

[Roskoreef]

I think things are taking a turn for the worse, im loosing this battle and its getting worse.

For a few months ive been battling cyano with no headway, now bubble algae is rampant and Green hair is forming, plus in the frag tank, either brown slime or diatoms grrrr, they are everywhere.

ok so here are my params, lighting etc.

Phosphates -0.04 - hanna
ammonia - 0 - nutrafin
Alk - 128 ppm, 7.16 DKH, 2.56 meq/L
Calc - 476 - hanna
Mag - 1360 - salifert

lighting schedule,

DT-180 gal
8 hrs 30% radion led
8 hrs T5, 372Watts

Frag Tank- 40 gal
10hrs T5, 272Watts

10%/week water change minimum

Im almost certain that there is too much light... how long can corals go without light? enough to kill algae but not corals???

Opinions, ideas??

[Robw]

Are you using ro/di water? How heavily stocked is your tank? Skimmer running ok?

I was/am battling hair algae and cyano. I have been doing 50 gallon water changes ever two weeks on a 120gal + sump system. I am winning the battle. Using ro/di water. carbon change with water change. Running GFO and zeovit system. Algae is dying off. Doing as much manual removal as I can. I run my lights about 11 hrs /day 2 250 watt Mh and t5 for color.

[Roskoreef]

yes ro/di, might need new media, 6mths old....

id say medium stocked with fish, fully stocked with corals, running 2 skimmers Reef Octopus 225 int and diablo external rated for 400 gal.

Full zeovit additives, and carbon changes with zeo media once a mth.

Trying to do as much manual removal as i can, have several emerald crabs trying to eat bubble, but my wrasses pick on them...

the problem is only alarming in my frag tank (same system) with either diatoms, but i think brown slime, ill add a few photos soon.

Does eggcrate release phosphates?? it seems to be growing algae the best.

I turned off all lighting in the frag tank today hopefully tomorrow with a good deep clean itll be better.

I should have mentioned how much i feed, I was feeding a little more than usual to help with my ich situation, so i was at 2 frozen mysis tabs and 2 cyclopeeze per day, with 25-30 fish its all gone in 15 seconds.. im now going to feed half for a while..

[Bblinks]

There are all kinds of algae out there so we need to nail down what it is you are trying to combat.

First, I would start by getting a couple of urchins and let them go at it for a bit.

Second, crank up the flow. I had the same issue with the frag tank even though it was sharing the same sump as the spotless main tank. The issue here is due to lack of flow, nutrient gets trapped in the frag tank which in turn feeds the algae growth sorta acting like a algae scrubber for the main tank.

Lastly, clean up crew like Mexican turbos and some trochus (think thats how you spell it).

Show me a pic please.

[Myka]

Which Zeovit additives are you using? I'd stop dosing any that wi help fuel algae until you have that under control.

[somafish]

What's your nitrates? Nitrates+phosphates =algae. Everyone is so quick to say ro/di water only,change up your lighting schedule and get more filtration. I use tap water, 12 hours with 8 bulb t5 and leds and a SWC 180 (granted I love this skimmer) no other filtration other then chaeto in a refugium, in a moderately stocked 120 gallon tank (but ran the exact same setup in a clown breeding set up which was fed 3× a day) and the only place I get any algae is frag plugs.
I have seen so many people with the same problem as you, and I can only think of 2 reasons why(other then bad husbandry,I don't know if it's the case with you) 1st broadcast feeding, especially as much as you are feeding, I only spot feed make sure all the fish are there for dinner and ad a little at a time, just cuz your food is gone in 15 seconds doesn't mean it's in the fish. 2nd sand beds I can't stress this enough. Shallow or deep it doesnt matter,they are nitrate traps and I believe the culprit behind many unexplained tank crash's
In the end i do everything your not suppose to and i have never dealt with algae and those are the only reasons I can figure why

[somafish]

Also, look up peroxide dosing

[Aquattro]

Also, look up peroxide dosing

Tried that recently. All my corals went brown. Not recommended by me :)

[somafish]

How much were you dosing In comparison to tank volume?

[Aquattro]

10ml targeted at algae in a 110g volume of water. Very little

[Roskoreef]

There are all kinds of algae out there so we need to nail down what it is you are trying to combat.

First, I would start by getting a couple of urchins and let them go at it for a bit.

Second, crank up the flow. I had the same issue with the frag tank even though it was sharing the same sump as the spotless main tank. The issue here is due to lack of flow, nutrient gets trapped in the frag tank which in turn feeds the algae growth sorta acting like a algae scrubber for the main tank.

Lastly, clean up crew like Mexican turbos and some trochus (think thats how you spell it).

Show me a pic please.

Turned up the gyre 130 to 70% alternating directions last night should help, planning on some urchins, tuxedo? I think straight feeding the tank to feed the corals aswell might be in excess and getting stuck in frag tank. I have 15 trochus, ill have to get more clean up crew going.

here are some ok photos of the frag algae,

this brown gelatenous stuff is all over

http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah74/rosko21/PSX_20150703_204135_zpslnlbaklp.jpg (http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/rosko21/media/PSX_20150703_204135_zpslnlbaklp.jpg.html)

mix of all the algaes attacking my flower pot,

http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah74/rosko21/DSC_0034_zpsohfifudc.jpg (http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/rosko21/media/DSC_0034_zpsohfifudc.jpg.html)

[Roskoreef]

Which Zeovit additives are you using? I'd stop dosing any that wi help fuel algae until you have that under control.

K-balance
strontium
coral booster
zeostart3
pols xtra
macroelements
sponge power
flouride/iodine complex
coral vitalizer
zeospur once a month
b-balance at daily doseage per week instead

lately have been trying zeo's cyano mixes (bio mate and zeozym, also coral snow with zeobac) because i ran out of cyanoclean.


all at recommended dosage, which ones are particularly algae fueling?

[Roskoreef]

DT Algae

http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah74/rosko21/DSC_0010_zpsknksylxa.jpg (http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/rosko21/media/DSC_0010_zpsknksylxa.jpg.html)

[AquaAddict]

Hi,

Perhaps stop all dosing except the essentials to balance pH, kH, Ca and Mg.

Lower light levels if possible and reduce hours

Get a Tang, especially a Kole Tang - super algae eater.

Use Instant Ocean's Natural Nitrate Reducer which settles into the nooks and crannies where nitrates like to hang out. This is my favourite product.

Use RowaPhos to reduce phosphates as all tanks have phosphates no matter what - another favourite product

Good ideas already mentioned that I like are: spot feeding and lots of circulation.

Good Luck and persevere; you have a great tank and will be beautiful.

AquaAddict

[Roskoreef]

Hi,

Perhaps stop all dosing except the essentials to balance pH, kH, Ca and Mg.

Lower light levels if possible and reduce hours

Get a Tang, especially a Kole Tang - super algae eater.

Use Instant Ocean's Natural Nitrate Reducer which settles into the nooks and crannies where nitrates like to hang out. This is my favourite product.

Use RowaPhos to reduce phosphates as all tanks have phosphates no matter what - another favourite product

Good ideas already mentioned that I like are: spot feeding and lots of circulation.

Good Luck and persevere; you have a great tank and will be beautiful.

AquaAddict


yeah, im thinking slowly reduce most additives daily until i can fiure out whats happening.

have a yellow eye kole tang and yeah he keeps the dt pretty tidy except for cyano and bubble.

Im reluctant to use any more filtration/phosphate/nitrate reducing methods as im already messing with the zeovit guidelines by running UV aswell..

probably going to stop feeding cyclopeez aswell, maybe too messy..

[WarDog]

How long exactly has this tank been running?

[Roskoreef]

How long exactly has this tank been running?

tank got wet early january, just about 7 months

[WarDog]

Whoa! Are you committed to run full zeo?

[Skim]

Wow, it sounds like there is more supplements then there is water.
A few questions and some suggestions. First STOP THE SUPPLEMENTS ALL and no water change right now as you just add more trace elements when you do.
Drop the T-5's to 6 hr you can decrease more if you have to. Leave LED's at 8 hrs. I see you have Emeralds, get 2 Sea Hares if one is bigger put it in the Main and smaller in the Frag. From the pic's and the way your rock looks your tank does not look like its been running for long, how old is the set up?
This next one should get a few comments, drop one of the skimmers if it was me I would drop the 400 gal and keep the 225 and clean it everyday to keep the neck clean. You have Cyno and that's a bacteria and you don't have enough " dum to say but good bacteria " pick up some Microbacter 7 you would need the 2L bottle. You did not mention PH or Nitrate this info would help. I don't know if you are running GFO or GAC but you will need to get some. I would recommend a high capacity GFO and TLF Hydro Carbon " only carbon to ever test 0 for phosphate " and when I said pick some up I don't me little jars you can get TLF carbon in a small bucket and if you go with Rowa you can get the 5 Kg bucket. You will also need 2 reactor you could get away with the TLF 150's, and you will need some filter floss. Go to Walmart and pick a big bag of pillow stuffing just make sure it say's 100 polyester and there is no anti mold or any type of additive. You will also need a power head I recommend the Colbalt 1200 and 1/2" tubing and a 1/2" ball valve to put in line to slow the flow. OK you want to use 2 cups Hydro carbon in one reactor and 2 cups GFO as a starting point. Put some filter floss on top of the GFO specially if you use Rowa as much of it is fine and will wash away. The flow should not be more then 100 Gal for your system if the flow is too high you will not absorb much phosphate but you will lose ALK. This is key and many do not understand this and think faster is better. If you are using GFO now then I know why your ALK is on the low side and you have like no coralline algae. The other thing I just thought of, pick up some filter socks not the felt ones get the 200 or 300 micron Poly type as the Algae dies the socks will catch the algae and they are easier to clean. Lastly, patience. This will take time because your rock is full of it and your substrate is full it. It being Phosphate.

I hope this may be some help, and good luck!

Skim

[Roskoreef]

Wow, it sounds like there is more supplements then there is water.
A few questions and some suggestions. First STOP THE SUPPLEMENTS ALL and no water change right now as you just add more trace elements when you do.
Drop the T-5's to 6 hr you can decrease more if you have to. Leave LED's at 8 hrs. I see you have Emeralds, get 2 Sea Hares if one is bigger put it in the Main and smaller in the Frag. From the pic's and the way your rock looks your tank does not look like its been running for long, how old is the set up?
This next one should get a few comments, drop one of the skimmers if it was me I would drop the 400 gal and keep the 225 and clean it everyday to keep the neck clean. You have Cyno and that's a bacteria and you don't have enough " dum to say but good bacteria " pick up some Microbacter 7 you would need the 2L bottle. You did not mention PH or Nitrate this info would help. I don't know if you are running GFO or GAC but you will need to get some. I would recommend a high capacity GFO and TLF Hydro Carbon " only carbon to ever test 0 for phosphate " and when I said pick some up I don't me little jars you can get TLF carbon in a small bucket and if you go with Rowa you can get the 5 Kg bucket. You will also need 2 reactor you could get away with the TLF 150's, and you will need some filter floss. Go to Walmart and pick a big bag of pillow stuffing just make sure it say's 100 polyester and there is no anti mold or any type of additive. You will also need a power head I recommend the Colbalt 1200 and 1/2" tubing and a 1/2" ball valve to put in line to slow the flow. OK you want to use 2 cups Hydro carbon in one reactor and 2 cups GFO as a starting point. Put some filter floss on top of the GFO specially if you use Rowa as much of it is fine and will wash away. The flow should not be more then 100 Gal for your system if the flow is too high you will not absorb much phosphate but you will lose ALK. This is key and many do not understand this and think faster is better. If you are using GFO now then I know why your ALK is on the low side and you have like no coralline algae. The other thing I just thought of, pick up some filter socks not the felt ones get the 200 or 300 micron Poly type as the Algae dies the socks will catch the algae and they are easier to clean. Lastly, patience. This will take time because your rock is full of it and your substrate is full it. It being Phosphate.

I hope this may be some help, and good luck!

Skim
Sorry should have mentioned, plan is to run full zeovit, have been the whole time...thus alk of 7 or so goal and ph is 8.08-8.32

Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk

[Roskoreef]

Whoa! Are you committed to run full zeo?

Yup thats the plan, maybe i should turn up the zeo reactor flow for faster nutrient export but im worried for some lps i have

Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk

[WarDog]

I am running zeo and my tank is the same age as yours. I am not having any of the problems you seem to be dealing with. DON'T PANIC! I will send you a PM, but don't wait up for it. It's going to take me a while to write it, and I'm currently arms deep in my tank, lol.

[Bblinks]

Turned up the gyre 130 to 70% alternating directions last night should help, planning on some urchins, tuxedo? I think straight feeding the tank to feed the corals aswell might be in excess and getting stuck in frag tank. I have 15 trochus, ill have to get more clean up crew going.

here are some ok photos of the frag algae,

this brown gelatenous stuff is all over

http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah74/rosko21/PSX_20150703_204135_zpslnlbaklp.jpg (http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/rosko21/media/PSX_20150703_204135_zpslnlbaklp.jpg.html)

mix of all the algaes attacking my flower pot,

http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah74/rosko21/DSC_0034_zpsohfifudc.jpg (http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/rosko21/media/DSC_0034_zpsohfifudc.jpg.html)

Some of the stuff in the frag tank looks like bryopsis. Tough to get rid of. The best thing to use is nudibranchs. Depending on the size of the tank you will need atleast 6. The adults don't do much, it's the babies that go to town on it.

Bubble algae is another pain in the ass algae to eradicate. Emerald crabs will pick at it but it's still hard to get them to take care all of it, plus like all crabs they are opportunists, why work for food when you can get fast food.

Tuxedo urchin is awesome, couple of smaller size ones will do just fine. Not along they eat algae the also clean the surface of your rocks to allow better filtration capacity. Down side is they do pick up a lot of loose frags and anything that's not glued down including an occasion snail or two.

Try it with more flow first, the cheapest resolution add a couple of urchins and go from there. Stop dosing amino and anything that can link to extra nutrient.

Lastly, manual removal is also a good way to contain an outbreak.

Good luck bud. With some hard work and determination you can and will beat it.

[Bblinks]

Forgot about the cyano (red slimy stuff) blow it off with Turkey baster right before you do a water change, throw a sock on it and let it catch the floaties. Suck out as much with your water change.

P.S. Don't break those bubble algae or it will spread everywhere.

[WarDog]

I am reading your build thread to get up to date on your set-up. I hate to say it, but you've broken almost every rule in regards to running zeovit. Still processing it all. Like I said, don't panic, you can recover.

Everything Bblinks has said is spot on, that's some good advice right there.

It would help if you could please post ALL your current parameters. Thanks.

[AquaAddict]

I just saw some sea hares at J&L today, July4th.

AquAddict

[Myka]

K-balance
strontium
coral booster <----
zeostart3
pols xtra <----
macroelements <---- not sure about this one
sponge power
flouride/iodine complex <----
coral vitalizer <----
zeospur once a month
b-balance at daily doseage per week instead <----

lately have been trying zeo's cyano mixes (bio mate and zeozym, also coral snow with zeobac) because i ran out of cyanoclean.


all at recommended dosage, which ones are particularly algae fueling?

I pointed arrows are them above.

FWIW, I've had better luck using Prodibio BioClean for algae issues than any zeovit additives, but if you're wanting to stay committed then maybe Warren has some ideas for you. I agree that you're breaking the Zeo "rules", which is working against you rather than for you.

[Roskoreef]

ok update, what i did in the last few days,

first thing, put on socks....later in the day put on filter socks,

-took all the branch out that was holding up the eggcrate, stuff collecting around it..put some magnets from frag racks underneath the corners, works ok..

-turned up flow on gyre 130 in frag tank to 100%

-manually removed as much algae as possible, blew off any cyano, and left bubble algae alone in both tanks

-30hr blackout in frag tank

-then reduced light in frag tank to 6hrs T5 - 7 Bulb

- feeding way less, target feeding corals without flow...have been feeding less cyclopeeze and am considering not feeding it a all. Im pretty sure all the deitrus in both tanks is moestly cyclop...

-halved feeding amout in main tank

-after feeding i have been doing daily 10 gallon water changes and vacuuming up anything.

-halved additive dosing for this week, will stop most completly for a bit... it doesnt feel right to cut off most of what i was dosing for the last while, Ithing the corals would probably be better tapering off everything.

results -

Brown slimy stuff in frag tank pretty much gone, i think the eggcrate is "new" maybe could be the reason of the brown stuff.

cyano has come back a little bit here and there, i just keep blasting it whenever i have time, seems to be under control-ish.

bubble algae remains the same..all over in small batches, not really growing but it would take another 5- 10 crabs to get it done i think.


As for possibly considering dropping UV, i dont have a sand bed at all anymore, what else would be anti-zeo?

http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah74/rosko21/DSC_0005_zpshvkvgk2j.jpg (http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/rosko21/media/DSC_0005_zpshvkvgk2j.jpg.html)

http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah74/rosko21/DSC_0009_zpsrlbvtjyf.jpg (http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/rosko21/media/DSC_0009_zpsrlbvtjyf.jpg.html)

http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah74/rosko21/DSC_0021_zpssh1zj0fa.jpg (http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/rosko21/media/DSC_0021_zpssh1zj0fa.jpg.html)

[WarDog]

At this point I would recommend you solicit some advice from G. Alexander on the Zeovit forum. Your case is very specific and I wouldn't want to give you the wrong advice.

You should not be running uv, gfo, or any aggressive carbon like ROX. Until you reach ULNS, you should only be using Start, Bak, sponge power and the stones. Nothing else.

Zeovit is a very finicky system, where changes should be made over weeks or months, not days. Plus, the use of dry rock is going to slow the process of reaching ULNS considerably.

[Wheelman76]

You should not be running uv, gfo, or any aggressive carbon like ROX. Until you reach ULNS, you should only be using Start, Bak, sponge power and the stones. Nothing else.


+1

[Myka]

As for possibly considering dropping UV, i dont have a sand bed at all anymore, what else would be anti-zeo?

This:

You should not be running uv, gfo, or any aggressive carbon like ROX. Until you reach ULNS, you should only be using Start, Bak, sponge power and the stones. Nothing else.

Also, if that was my tank, I wouldn't be adding any Cyclopeeze or any other type of water column feeding. I'd feed the fish, and dose the basic Zeo additives that Warren mentioned, and maybe K-Balance because the Zeolites are going to pull the K out. The point of all the algae-fueling additives is to feed the corals after the system has become an ULNS. Using those additives beforehand is working against you.

[kien]

I skimmed through this but didn't read what light spectrum you were running. I'm sure it's in your build thread somewhere but I'm too lazy to go check so maybe you can remind us? I saw you were running Radeons and T5s for 8 hours?? What bulbs are in the T5s that you're running and what spectrum out of the Radeons (sorry I don't know much a bout the LEDs).

[hfp75]

Why use egg crate on a bare bottom 2" up?

[Roskoreef]

I skimmed through this but didn't read what light spectrum you were running. I'm sure it's in your build thread somewhere but I'm too lazy to go check so maybe you can remind us? I saw you were running Radeons and T5s for 8 hours?? What bulbs are in the T5s that you're running and what spectrum out of the Radeons (sorry I don't know much a bout the LEDs).

T5 were running for 8hrs - korallen bulbs fiji purple and superblues

leds for 10hrs with 1hr ramp up to full blue for 1 hr, then 8hrs at 30% full everything exept red and green channels.

[Roskoreef]

Why use egg crate on a bare bottom 2" up?

to organize my frags so they dont bother each other, why not? am i missing something???

[Roskoreef]

removed uv, am going to stop dosing all but zeobac, zeostart and sponge power, and maybe coral snow in a month if anyting looks hungry...ordered an avast marine zeovibe reactor, planning on dosing directly into reactor from doser(zeobac and start). Also got a magnificent foxface to hopefully help with algae... tank already looks "dirty" without uv, this normal for a bit?

http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah74/rosko21/DSC_0086_zpstjlip3hq.jpg (http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/rosko21/media/DSC_0086_zpstjlip3hq.jpg.html)

[Myka]

T5 were running for 8hrs - korallen bulbs fiji purple and superblues

Do you have something you could swap out the Fiji Purple with for now? Purple/Pink bulbs are excellent algae growers for tanks with this weakness.

removed uv, am going to stop dosing all but zeobac, zeostart and sponge power, and maybe coral snow in a month if anyting looks hungry...ordered an avast marine zeovibe reactor, planning on dosing directly into reactor from doser(zeobac and start). Also got a magnificent foxface to hopefully help with algae... tank already looks "dirty" without uv, this normal for a bit?

Sounds like a good plan! Fwiw, Coral Snow is not a food - using it now is fine. The pics of your Foxface that shows corals in the background - they do not look hungry in any shape, way, or form. Imo, you have a long way to go before the corals will be hungry looking. :)

[reef-keeper]

I had the same problem. Battled algae for about three months. Found Dr. Tim's Waste away and used this product. Worked very well. 100% natural and won't hurt inverts or fish. Now I just add it after I do a water change.