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r212019
07-02-2015, 04:58 AM
Does this mean that I can only make three more posts this year? If this is the case, this forum is going to become a ghost town.

Maybe it's just me, but why try to fix something that isn't broken. For me I enjoy logging onto canreef every day and seeing new posts and what is out there for sale/trade. Personally, I wouldn't even mind seeing more stuff posted rather than less. Hopefully I misunderstood the rule change :)

Happy reefing

Aquattro
07-02-2015, 05:06 AM
Sorry, you missed the show today and we're all done talking about it for the day. :)

Coral Hoarder
07-02-2015, 05:06 AM
I agree with this I frag my zoa garden at least 4 times a year and get 30 ish frags in just zoas 20 per post is decent but 4 posts a year realy isnt sufficient mabie like 8 posts a year? I use canreef mainly for buy and sell I do check out tank journals and answer the odd question but for information it's easyer to go to a biger fourm. with out as many buy sell people canreef will surely decrease in population then sponsors and sooner or later gost town just like bcaquaria.com

Aquattro
07-02-2015, 05:13 AM
We'll see how it goes. If it doesn't work out the way we planned it, we'll look at it.

Coralgurl
07-02-2015, 05:18 AM
I'm in the process of shutting down my tank and read the new rules (and today's drama). My plan is to hold my tank and equipment and give things a year to decide whether or not to start back up.

The forum always slows over the summer, but I'm now thinking of selling off everything as this has always been a great place to buy/sell, im not sure it will be around in a year. With the frustration others have demonstrated with the change in rules, long time, active, valued members banned, I doubt many will return. This hurts the forum as the experience goes with them, which is what this forum was when I first joined.

Based on what I read today, I hope the mods will reconsider this change and if it appears someone is commercially selling frags or running a basement business, deal with that individual, and leave the rest of the community to enjoy the hobby. Just my 0.02.

camaro7019
07-02-2015, 05:29 AM
I agree with all the posts. I login hourly to check if new frags are for sale and i enjoy looking at all the different types. I dont sell frags right now. I just purchase them. This will really hurt my ability to buy corals because people are not going to be posting them because they cant. And that upsets me cause i need more coral!!!

Aquattro
07-02-2015, 05:30 AM
See, the problem is that when we try to deal with it individually, like we did with Denny, he went f'ning nuts and is trying to screw us over. We're now at a point where he's offering a reward to disrupt the board because he's too egotistical to accept that we can't have a commercial seller posting as a hobbyist. So instead of graciously accepting that his business can't operate here for free, he freaks out, builds his own site, offers a reward to mess with Canreef and now I have a sh1t ton more work to do. Do I have to do this with every single instance every year? I can't. So we makes rules and guidelines. And people like Denny affect all members. Want to be mad? Be mad at people like him. Canreef is so awesome while he's raking in the bucks, but as soon as we attempt to deal with it, he goes off the deep end. Same reason he got canned from his job. Too much self importance.

Now, if you want to sell things, sell things. Tank shut downs are not affected. Hardware is not affected. And yes, we will be here next year. I'm really sick of people suggesting this. It started 15 years ago with the first rule nobody liked. Then every year after. Oh, Canreef will be gone. Pfft. No, it won't. And if it ever does, you can call Denny and people like him and thank them personally.

We now have to deal with all this garbage, messing around with good guys like Ryan and Nick and Jesse and Kelly, the list goes on. We want to help the hobby, we want to help all of the community, but FFS, we need some help back. We try to make some rules that gives some responsibility to the members, while minimally affecting their sales and other activities. We do our best with what we have. We can't work miracles, we can't implement every idea thrown at us every day, and the ones we can take time.

So you know what? Be here, follow the rules, even if they suck. If they suck for too many people they will get changed. If they just suck for you and you can't accept that, go somewhere else.

Now I'm in **** with my wife for spending the entire f'ing day dealing with this crap, and I'm going to ban more people. Or kill something. Or eat ice cream. One of those....

somafish
07-02-2015, 05:38 AM
Whoa..... stuff just got real

WarDog
07-02-2015, 05:39 AM
You guys have gone and made Brad snap... now you've done it!!!

BTW... nicely said Brad!

Myka
07-02-2015, 05:40 AM
Now I'm in **** with my wife for spending the entire f'ing day dealing with this crap, and I'm going to ban more people. Or kill something. Or eat ice cream. One of those....

Ugh, tell me about it. I had a simple plumbing job to do today, and instead of an hour, it took me 6 hours because of all this "fun". Now I'm up late watching my new tank for leaks.

Brad, try tea. Tea is good for calming. I'm drinking Sleepy Time now... :yawn:

Aquattro
07-02-2015, 05:41 AM
Whoa..... stuff just got real

When I turn to ice cream, stuff got real!!

Samw
07-02-2015, 06:22 AM
There's no 4 post per year rule that I keep hearing about. It's 4 threads per year and 20 frag types per thread. So theoretically, you can sell 80 types of frags per year in as many quantities per type and you can post as often as you like since you can use the "Reply" button in a thread to add more frags for sale (up to 20 max per thread).

If this rule affects people because they have more than 80 types of corals for sale per year, that's a really really impressive hobbyist setup they have there. :)

Aquattro
07-02-2015, 06:23 AM
There's no 4 post per year rule that I keep hearing about. It's 4 threads per year and 20 frag types per thread. So theoretically, you can sell 80 types of frags per year in as many quantities per type and you can post as often as you like since you can use the "Reply" button in a thread to add more frags for sale (up to 20 max per thread).

If this rule affects people because they have more than 80 types of corals for sale per year, that's a really really impressive hobbyist setup. :)

Ya, pretty much says it there.

WarDog
07-02-2015, 06:24 AM
WOW... somebody actually read and understood the rules!.. and didn't act like a 3 year old in the process, lol.

Aquattro
07-02-2015, 06:26 AM
WOW... somebody actually read and understood the rules!.. and didn't act like a 3 year old in the process, lol.

That Sam is a pretty sharp guy :)

Bayside Corals
07-02-2015, 06:34 AM
Looks like I missed all the fun as well.

I am not a sponsor but I am a business owner and I am willing to pay to advertise on the site. Anyone else that is a business or wanna be business should pay as well. The problem is Titus needs to pull his head out of the sand and charge everyone the same price! Word travels, very few people paid the same for advertising.

Also titus has to realize the world is chaning. Facebook is free. Canreef....... the prices I get quoted are WAY TOO much for what its worth. Hence why I am not a sponsor.

To clarify I have not read the new rules. And apparently I missed the fun thread. But canreef does charge too much for me to sponsor but thats not up to me to decide.

So I will continue to be a lurker until prices come back into line.

And Titus remember facebook is Freeeeeee, thats your competition these days.......

Colby

Aquattro
07-02-2015, 06:35 AM
Perhaps Sam is right. Maybe people don't understand this.

You post 5 frags in a thread Jan 1. You bump it anytime you like. Add more frags, bump some more. Post that you have frags. Many more not pictured. Add some more. Bump it into spring. Add a couple more. Up to 20 frags in a thread. Make a new thread May 1. Repeat. Keep going. You can have active threads with up to 80 frags going all year. Of the 80 advertised, you'll sell 400. That should supp the salt purchases. almost nobody here even has that many. With a full 180 SPS tank and a large frag tank, I didn't have that many. Not even close.

Aquattro
07-02-2015, 06:36 AM
Looks like I missed all the fun as well.

I am not a sponsor but I am a business owner and I am willing to pay to advertise on the site. Anyone else that is a business or wanna be business should pay as well. The problem is Titus needs to pull his head out of the sand and charge everyone the same price! Word travels, very few people paid the same for advertising.

Also titus has to realize the world is chaning. Facebook is free. Canreef....... the prices I get quoted are WAY TOO much for what its worth. Hence why I am not a sponsor.

To clarify I have not read the new rules. And apparently I missed the fun thread. But canreef does charge too much for me to sponsor but thats not up to me to decide.

So I will continue to be a lurker until prices come back into line.

And Titus remember facebook is Freeeeeee, thats your competition these days.......

Colby


FYI, I have mentioned this :) A couple times.

Bayside Corals
07-02-2015, 06:37 AM
One last thing, alot of people come to these forums to see all the shiney new corals. If you have more sponsors you will have more people posting shiney new corals which will make people come to this forum more often.

Aquattro
07-02-2015, 12:51 PM
Does this mean that I can only make three more posts this year? Hopefully I misunderstood the rule change :)


To answer this directly, with a couple of points, no, and I think you did.

You are entitled to 4 threads. You can post a thread containing up to 20 frags/corals. If you post with one, you can add 19 more anytime you want. You can bump it, you can add to it, you can insert a picture of your new puppy. It can run forever and you can bump it or add to it anytime you like. You can do this with 4 threads in a year. This keep it organized without limiting you in what you can post.
However, looking at the one you already have, your last bump was before taking it to J&L for credit, so I'm not entirely sure this even affects you. Others, like Ryan that post a lot, can still post a lot. So when you log in, there can always be new stuff you haven't seen, rather than just a repeat thread of the same pieces as a person's last thread.

I ask that people that think they are affected simply play along for 6 months. If it's really not working, let us know via PM and we'll look at it.

Coralgurl
07-02-2015, 01:44 PM
Thank you Brad for clarifying what the issue is and how this all works, it makes more sense. Pretty sure we all knew who you were referring to and what was going on. It's unfortunate that one person has forced this situation and created the drama for and on the board.

Sorry you had to turn to ice cream.

Aquattro
07-02-2015, 01:48 PM
Essentially, instead of a million different For Sale posts by each seller, think of it as a Frag Sale Journal. It can go all year, add to it, bump it, etc. I can count on one hand the people that have more than 80 different pieces to post for sale. This is not a horrible thing, and I bet people end up liking it.

we really don't try to screw people over just for fun!! :)

Reef Pilot
07-02-2015, 02:10 PM
Essentially, instead of a million different For Sale posts by each seller, think of it as a Frag Sale Journal. It can go all year, add to it, bump it, etc.
You know, if you would have stated this reason for the new rules and worded them to support this intent, I would not have objected. I actually prefer keeping a single thread going for a while with just bumps and occasional updates. Having said that, it was you, Brad, that once joked that I had the longest running frag FS thread going. So then I started doing more threads and shortening them... Can't win...

But I still have a problem with whining sponsors who come and go, and are just takers that don't contribute with knowledge and support.

And the Denny thing, whatever happened, could have been handled with PMs and a ban if necessary, without creating all this upset. But I, as a few others, don't like unnecessary nanny rules that paint all of us with the same broad brush. It just shows a lack of respect and trust for those who do live within the rules and intent of the forum and hobby. We are not school children (at least most of us...lol).

Aquattro
07-02-2015, 02:35 PM
Yes Walter, I suppose I could have explained it better.

your threads were in my mind when this came up, and as you said, I joked about it. It was a joke.

Sponsors are a business, and as such, can run it any way they like. Come, go, do what they need to do. They, especially frag dealers, bring new and exciting things to the table which in turn trickle down into next year's hobbyist sales.

The whole Denny thing was attempted offline, but he choose to make a stink about it publicly, and at that point the decisions had to be quick and somewhat painful. It's a shame he couldn't have been more mature about it and worked with us to come to an understanding. He was banned for a week but then offered a reward publicly to spam the board. He made his own bed.

We also don't like to lay down rules all the time. But it's a necessary evil that comes with the territory. If it isn't written down, it gets abused. I can't revisit this with every individual every time it happens, so a rule is posted. In this case, I took the worse case scenario and tried to accommodate that individual, while being able to justify their posts at the end of the year. We have leveled the playing field without causing much, if any real consequence on the people that feel they are affected. If anyone feels this isn't so, they can PM me and I'll run through the scenario. I am certain they will be pleasantly surprised with the freedom that they still have to sell their frags.

No, almost all of you are not school children. But some are. So when posting any formal guideline, we need to address the lowest common denominator. As mature adults, I trust you all to understand this need and not feel it's directed at you.
I just went to the store. The door had a Pull sign on it. I didn't take to suggest the store thought I was an idiot. It's just a simple reminder of how something works. Same with our rules.

The Guy
07-02-2015, 02:40 PM
You know, if you would have stated this reason for the new rules and worded them to support this intent, I would not have objected. I actually prefer keeping a single thread going for a while with just bumps and occasional updates. Having said that, it was you, Brad, that once joked that I had the longest running frag FS thread going. So then I started doing more threads and shortening them... Can't win...

But I still have a problem with whining sponsors who come and go, and are just takers that don't contribute with knowledge and support.

And the Denny thing, whatever happened, could have been handled with PMs and a ban if necessary, without creating all this upset. But I, as a few others, don't like unnecessary nanny rules that paint all of us with the same broad brush. It just shows a lack of respect and trust for those who do live within the rules and intent of the forum and hobby. We are not school children (at least most of us...lol).
Well said Walter, this last paragraph says it perfectly.

Aquattro
07-02-2015, 02:41 PM
Well said Walter, this last paragraph says it perfectly.

Please see my reply.

Myka
07-02-2015, 02:42 PM
Yes, thank you Walter!

Denny's post was moved to the moderator forums (it's not deleted) on the sole reason that it was attacking Warren. The rest of the fluff he posted was just fine (albeit he could have said it all with more tact). He was banned because he re-posted the same post into another thread. This ban was set for 7 days simply to prevent him from re-posting the attack on Warren. He could have come back, but he chose to have a fit and continue on for several hours (it's likely no one really saw it all), and he set his own future here.

Please trust me when I say that I, along with the other moderators, are working to improve Canreef in many ways and create more traffic and interesting topics/activities. We do listen to you guys! There are a lot of great things in the works. With Warren and I as new moderators, we have brought a new life to ideas and energy to get them done. I think it was probably a poor choice to put up these new classified rules as the first "act" that was made since Warren and I stepped up without first showing you guys some of the "prettier" things we have in mind. However, even though my name is on these classified rules, they were in the making long before Warren and I became moderators. The classified rules are not a new idea, and once everyone gets used to the idea it will become a non-issue.

Reef Pilot
07-02-2015, 02:53 PM
Well, I think all of us understand the rules and intent better now. And I don't want to lecture anymore either. But hopefully, we all learned some things here, and perhaps how to do things better going forward.

And again, Brad, nothing against you personally, that's for sure. Your patience and cool has saved the day many times before. And I know you guys (mods) have to do things collectively and probably don't always agree with each other either. I do see we have a few new mods now, and do hope they will learn from you (stay cool).

Aquattro
07-02-2015, 02:56 PM
Thanks Walter. I never take anything personally, I understand that these things can become "charged". We can't always anticipate everyone's understanding and/or confusion with these new things we do, but we will try harder in the future to delivery info with better explanations.

The Guy
07-02-2015, 09:29 PM
Well, I think all of us understand the rules and intent better now. And I don't want to lecture anymore either. But hopefully, we all learned some things here, and perhaps how to do things better going forward.

And again, Brad, nothing against you personally, that's for sure. Your patience and cool has saved the day many times before. And I know you guys (mods) have to do things collectively and probably don't always agree with each other either. I do see we have a few new mods now, and do hope they will learn from you (stay cool).
Again, well said Walter, this goes for me too.

Thanks Walter. I never take anything personally, I understand that these things can become "charged". We can't always anticipate everyone's understanding and/or confusion with these new things we do, but we will try harder in the future to delivery info with better explanations.
Hey Brad you have always kept a cool level approach when dealing with issues.
I don't always agree with some decisions, but do respect what ever is decided and try to follow the rules as written.

BubblesUp
07-02-2015, 10:07 PM
Canada Day on CanReef. I was bored yesterday and I should have been here.

http://cdn2.thegloss.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/theater-kids.gif

TeleNovela CanReef

intarsiabox
07-02-2015, 11:08 PM
I ask that people that think they are affected simply play along for 6 months. If it's really not working, let us know via PM and we'll look at it.
Isn't that about the time you leave? HeeHee

Aquattro
07-02-2015, 11:26 PM
Isn't that about the time you leave? HeeHee

shhhh

ponokareefer
07-03-2015, 01:35 AM
Sounds like I missed some fun. Unfortunately as a business owner, I get to deal with people that like to try to break the rules/laws all the time. They ruin your day and make things worse for everyone. Human nature seems to be slipping in my mind with more and more people doing it. To the Mods that have to deal with it, I feel for you. You aren't in a very pleasant situation. I think i'll go have some ice cream now.

chefpaakk
07-03-2015, 03:20 AM
[QUOTE=Aquattro;956984]See, the problem is that when we try to deal with it individually, like we did with Denny, he went f'ning nuts and is trying to screw us over. We're now at a point where he's offering a reward to disrupt the board...


On that note someone tried to hack into my account yesterday...

Just saying

Aquattro
07-03-2015, 03:27 AM
On that note someone tried to hack into my account yesterday...

Just saying

I'm sure it's not him. We have this daily usually originating from a China IP address range

Skimmer Juice
07-03-2015, 05:41 AM
Just was wondering what the original complaint started from ? I don't really see Denny flooding the buy sell section , and he mostly sells zoa's from his collection . And recently had a tank shutdown . Its not like he is importing huge shipments and flipping them on the boards . He still works a full time job so I don't think he is raking in the bucks off frags like was stated earlier. What would be the deciding factor between hobbyist and commercial ? Just thought I would say my 2 cents Denny has done a lot for the community and don't really see why its this big of a deal with the amount of corals/threads he was making . I'm just glad there is a place to buy zoas in Calgary because you cant find them at the stores .

Aquattro
07-03-2015, 05:52 AM
Just was wondering what the original complaint started from ? I don't really see Denny flooding the buy sell section , and he mostly sells zoa's from his collection . And recently had a tank shutdown . Its not like he is importing huge shipments and flipping them on the boards . He still works a full time job so I don't think he is raking in the bucks off frags like was stated earlier. What would be the deciding factor between hobbyist and commercial ? Just thought I would say my 2 cents Denny has done a lot for the community and don't really see why its this big of a deal with the amount of corals/threads he was making . I'm just glad there is a place to buy zoas in Calgary because you cant find them at the stores .

Yes, Denny has been a huge presence on the board, and in the community. I'm really mad it came to this when it didn't have to.
But, commercial is dictated by having a site online where you can order corals. He does. It says if you order wholesale to resell, it is commercial. He does. He was allowed to sell recently while working for a sponsor, as I gave him the benefit of doubt and considered him sponsor-like. But once he left there, he was a stand alone business, just like Fragbox. March pays for space to sell here, Denny did not. There really were very few options. I can't talk to March (or Dave, Greg, etc) and justify why one business can post free, while they pay. It's not fair. So, we explained nicely to Denny and he didn't want to be reasonable. I can only do so much, and if he wasn't willing to bring anything to the table, there's nothing I can do to work around what transpired.
I can say without a doubt that I will miss his contributions to the board as much as anyone, and probably more than most.

FWIW, the original complaint had nothing to do with Denny, and his leaving Concept just timed his issues with these others. There was no relationship between new rules and Denny directly. However, this type of thing has happened before, and will happen again, so we chose to document some guidelines to make it clear up front what is expected of members that seek to sell things on the board.

spit.fire
07-03-2015, 01:26 PM
Looks like I missed all the fun as well.

I am not a sponsor but I am a business owner and I am willing to pay to advertise on the site. Anyone else that is a business or wanna be business should pay as well. The problem is Titus needs to pull his head out of the sand and charge everyone the same price! Word travels, very few people paid the same for advertising.

Also titus has to realize the world is chaning. Facebook is free. Canreef....... the prices I get quoted are WAY TOO much for what its worth. Hence why I am not a sponsor.

To clarify I have not read the new rules. And apparently I missed the fun thread. But canreef does charge too much for me to sponsor but thats not up to me to decide.

So I will continue to be a lurker until prices come back into line.

And Titus remember facebook is Freeeeeee, thats your competition these days.......

Colby
I agree with the sponsorship price being wat too expensive, working at the store that shall not be named me and my brony spent alot of time debating if the Canreef sponsorship was worth the ridiculous price. We can to the conclusion that Facebook is free and found that we were making more money through Facebook than we would have on Canreef

So in conclusion, Canreef sponsorship is way too much money for what you get


Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

rayjay
07-03-2015, 01:36 PM
I see nothing wrong with a business deciding it's not worth the cost of sponsorship and/or its terms of reference. If all sponsorship withdrew, then I could see that costs might be too high but obviously there are still those businesses that see it as a reasonable expense or they too would not do it.
I would see a problem though if said business made the decision to not pay for, but then expect to still have the same priveleges that those who DO pay have.

Aquattro
07-03-2015, 02:04 PM
In the end, it's up to a business to determine where to spend their dollars. Some see the value, others do not. That theme holds true across everything ever offered for money. Cars, food, reef equipment, etc.

But yes, if you want to have advertising here, it costs money. An amount that may or may not be of value to an individual business. Too high or too low or too purple is all subjective.

Sebbie
07-06-2015, 10:04 PM
:popcorn: