travisc's ultimate new-to-the-hobby newbie build. Dig it!

[travisc]

Hello everyone! This is my 1st saltwater reef tank. I have had cichlid tanks for years but now I'm fulfilling a life long dream and building a 800 gallon tank in my basement. I have met so many helpful and encouraging people thus far.Jim who has shared his knowledge and his spare time helping me build and assemble everything to date. David and Denis at golds aquarium who have been very helpful and given me great deals on the equipment! The same with the guys at concept! I still have lots to do before its running but here are my progression pictures. Any tips or advice is greatly appreciated!

[WarDog]

Welcome to Canreef. Looking forward to following your build!
Feel free to ask any questions!

[travisc]

Thanks! Im having trouble uploading my pictures...says a security token was missing..

[coolhandgoose]

Look forward to the build. Welcome to the site.

I use photobucket to upload pictures. Works really well

[WarDog]

If you just signed up recently, your account my be pending review. Brad (Aquattro) will be able to do that soon, as he's probably dreaming about Moorish Idols right now. :lol:

Get a photobucket or Flickr! account and upload photos to there. Then copy the BB code and paste here using the 'insert image' icon.

[travisc]

Thanks for the tip!http:// http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/traviscampbell9190/Mobile%20Uploads/20150410_190601_zpsmvi6lqd7.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/traviscampbell9190/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150410_190601_zpsmvi6lqd7.jpg.html)

[travisc]

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/traviscampbell9190/Mobile%20Uploads/20150410_190601_zpsmvi6lqd7.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/traviscampbell9190/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150410_190601_zpsmvi6lqd7.jpg.html)

[travisc]

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/traviscampbell9190/Mobile%20Uploads/20150517_093900_zpszkubtgoe.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/traviscampbell9190/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150517_093900_zpszkubtgoe.jpg.html)

[travisc]

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/traviscampbell9190/Mobile%20Uploads/20150517_161654_zpsbehxfhvl.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/traviscampbell9190/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150517_161654_zpsbehxfhvl.jpg.html)

[travisc]

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/traviscampbell9190/Mobile%20Uploads/20150517_161648_zps2izriq6l.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/traviscampbell9190/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150517_161648_zps2izriq6l.jpg.html)

[travisc]

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/traviscampbell9190/Mobile%20Uploads/20150517_164136_zps8r0kurub.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/traviscampbell9190/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150517_164136_zps8r0kurub.jpg.html)

[travisc]

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/traviscampbell9190/Mobile%20Uploads/20150517_180203_zpsfddn1klj.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/traviscampbell9190/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150517_180203_zpsfddn1klj.jpg.html)

[travisc]

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/traviscampbell9190/Mobile%20Uploads/20150517_094037_zpsnzpwip7n.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/traviscampbell9190/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150517_094037_zpsnzpwip7n.jpg.html)

[coolhandgoose]

Looks awesome!

[kien]

Wait a minute.. Did you say that this is your *first* saltwater tank?!?! I call shenanigans !!

P.S. Welcome to Canreef and the salty side of the hobby :-)

[travisc]

Lol thanks! This is honestly my 1st salt water tank. Decided to go big or go home. The plumbing is thanks to Jim's experience and the sump from the guys at concept

[kien]

Definitely awesome guys to have as guides on your reefing journey. You'll pretty much eliminate all the noobie mistakes :-). It's kinda like using performance enhancing drugs really. Shenanigans !! :lol:

[Myka]

I saw that little tank on the first page and I was kike "Oh it's a typo, he meant 80 gallons." Then I saw the mofo on this second page! You might be the craziest newbie ever! Buy the best skimmer you can afford! Looks great in that wall.

[travisc]

Thanks Myka! I have an ATI power cone 250

[travisc]

It's wet! No leaks!

[travisc]

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/traviscampbell9190/Mobile%20Uploads/20150518_174837_zpsd1z4n9ve.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/traviscampbell9190/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150518_174837_zpsd1z4n9ve.jpg.html)

[travisc]

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/traviscampbell9190/Mobile%20Uploads/20150518_174801_zpsxgc2avk2.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/traviscampbell9190/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150518_174801_zpsxgc2avk2.jpg.html)

[travisc]

405 pounds of Fiji live rock thanks to Eli! Now to see if I can make it look the same in the tank....http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/traviscampbell9190/Mobile%20Uploads/20150520_151237_zpseidzf7hj.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/traviscampbell9190/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150520_151237_zpseidzf7hj.jpg.html)

[gobytron]

wow.

That pic with the HUUUUUGE tank and the one single plug in the single outlet made me lol.

I really like the idea of having a display that you cannot access from the front.

way less tempting to adjust anything that way...

[eli@fijireefrock.com]

It was a pleasure meeting you.
Shortly I will have a video of the rock scape for you to put it all back together like a simple puzzle..:biggrin:

[Myka]

What are the dimensions of you tank? The wall the tank is in, is it finished with a polished tile or something else? Looks sharp!

Thanks Myka! I have an ATI power cone 250

Sorry, I didn't see the pic of the skimmer on my first tour through your thread...I was using my phone, and didn't see that pic.

Great skimmer, but not near big enough for your tank! I'm not sure why someone would recommend that skimmer to you. If I were you, I would really reconsider your skimmer choice, for something bigger and more suited to the 800+ gallons of water you're going to have. IMO, the skimmer is THE most important factor in designing a marine tank. Do some research to see what's available to you - giant skimmers can be hard to track down. Don't get me wrong, that skimmer is a nice skimmer, but it's half the size you need.

405 pounds of Fiji live rock thanks to Eli! Now to see if I can make it look the same in the tank...

No way, not gonna happen! :lol: You'll learn that if you move even two pieces of rock, they won't go back together the same way. I'm sure you'll make something awesome though!

[travisc]

I've been told that it is big enough. ... but we did design the sump to be large enough to hold a larger bubble king...

[RDNanoGuy]

I'll step in a bit here as I'm helping Travis set up his tank. Travis had already purchased his skimmer before I stepped in to give him a hand. Myka I agree on paper the. ati cone seems a little on the small side but I think it will be ok. Spec wise it is a 12" dia body with a nearly 10" neck and the pump has nearly as much air draw as the big red dragon pump. The only needle wheel skimmer the is any bigger is the supermarine 250. I think with Travis's goals for the tank it should suffice with a decent waterchange regime. Just in case it ends up needing an upgrade I made sure to build the sump large enough to fit the big bubble king.

[kien]

Coming along nicely ! So when would you like me to move this build thread to the Tank Journals forum and rename your thread title for you? :lol:

[travisc]

I'm sorry Kien. If that is where the post should be and renamed, by all means move it. Just let everyone know where it is to be able to view it and vote it tank of the month... :lol:

[Myka]

I'll step in a bit here as I'm helping Travis set up his tank. Travis had already purchased his skimmer before I stepped in to give him a hand. Myka I agree on paper the. ati cone seems a little on the small side but I think it will be ok.

Just because he already bought it, doesn't mean it should suffice. If you sell it now while it's still BNIB, you can get the best price, and move to a better suited skimmer. :)

Even if you do a quick search on Reef Central (simply because that's the largest audience to draw from), you will easily see that most people are running this skimmer on tanks in the 250-300 gallon range. There are no threads with people running the skimmer on tanks over 400 gallons which is a far cry from the 800-gallon system Travis has. Protein skimmer manufacturers never underrate their skimmers, if anything they overrate their skimmers.

Here is a review by Jake Adams (one of thee skimmer gurus), and he recommends to use it on tanks 400 gallons and less. Keep in mind he was paid to do the review. http://reefbuilders.com/2013/08/15/ati-powercone-skimmer-review-great-features-surprisingly-affordable/

The only needle wheel skimmer the is any bigger is the supermarine 250. I think with Travis's goals for the tank it should suffice with a decent waterchange regime. Just in case it ends up needing an upgrade I made sure to build the sump large enough to fit the big bubble king.Bubble King doesn't stop at the Supermarin 250. They go WAY beyond that - using needlewheels. I think the Supermarin 300 or the DeLuxe 400 would be better choices. Even the Supermarin 250 is under-sized for an 800-gallon system.

Check out the Bubble King website. http://royalexclusiv.net

To put it in perspective, one of my clients has a 375-gallon display with another 50 gallons of volume in the sump, and we have a Supermarin 300 on it - the model with two pumps, a RD3 Speedy and a 1500. The tank is lightly stocked and heavily fed and the skimmer is a good fit. I do weekly 15% water changes.

If you do the math, doing water changes on a tank that size, doing an extra 10% weekly to make up for the smaller skimmer, even using the cheapest salt available will still cost close to $1000/year not to mention extra RO/DI filters and the man hours to go get all that salt, mix it all up, and do that extra volume.

So why not put that money towards a bigger skimmer now and just save all the hassle of replacing it down the road? :) You can ignore my advice and those of many others if you do some research (most people do ignore advice once they've set their minds to something).

[travisc]

Hi Myka. Yes the outside way is tiled with a polished tile.

Since the tank is made of two 3/4 plywood the actual inside demensions and with the water not totally filling the tank is 106" × 46" × 28". Plus the sump

[Myka]

Hi Myka. Yes the outside way is tiled with a polished tile.

Since the tank is made of two 3/4 plywood the actual inside demensions and with the water not totally filling the tank is 106" × 46" × 28". Plus the sump

So, that's less than 600 gallons. What's in the sump? It looks to be about 72 x 18 x 18"?? That's another 50 gallons or so of actual water volume. So you're sitting about 650 gallons total water volume without displacement? I still think you will have trouble using that small (in relation haha) skimmer. You would never know it unless you try something better though.

[travisc]

Yes I'd say the total water volume in the tank full would be roughly 591 gallons. The sump is 60 × 19 × 15. So 74 gallons but it's not full and with the pump and skimmer in it would be roughly 50 gallons. Then if you count the 55 gallon refugium tank... say a total of 680 gallons of water. I also have an Eheim professional 3 1200XL (well actually 2 of them....the first guy that was helping me out told me to purchase them...) which will be installed for basically media filtration but may also filter the water and take some of the work load off the skimmer?

[Ryanerickson]

I tried to use a skimmer a bit bigger then that on my 400 gallons (bit larger euro reef ) everything slowly turned to a algae bomb. I upgraded to a beast of a skimmer tank is crystal clear now.by the way tank looks great in that black wall very nice start.

[Myka]

Yes I'd say the total water volume in the tank full would be roughly 591 gallons. The sump is 60 × 19 × 15. So 74 gallons but it's not full and with the pump and skimmer in it would be roughly 50 gallons. Then if you count the 55 gallon refugium tank... say a total of 680 gallons of water. I also have an Eheim professional 3 1200XL (well actually 2 of them....the first guy that was helping me out told me to purchase them...) which will be installed for basically media filtration but may also filter the water and take some of the work load off the skimmer?

Why don't you sell all that stuff, and buy a bigger skimmer? Cut your losses now. A skimmer that is too small on a tank that is this big will be a really big problem. Trying to clean up that much volume after the fact will be very, very tough and expensive.

I'm being really persistent not because I want to be right, but because I really think you're making a mistake, and as a newbie I really don't want you to fail or be so frustrated that you quit. Shell out a few more bucks now, and you will have things much easier on yourself in the long run. Of all things, please don't cheap out on the skimmer. PLUS, I really want to see this tank look REALLY sweet! :D

[travisc]

I appreciate your concern. Would have been nice to have had all this info and help before purchasing everything. I can't blame anyone but myself for not doing my own due diligence. It's a hard pill to swallow spending $800 on the skimmer and $900 for the 2 cannister filters. Then plus even if I would be able to sell any of it (not likely anyone would want those canisters ) I'd be taking a big hit on that as well. I looked at the link you posted to the bubble King and 1900 euros. ... which would be roughly $4000 cad plus shipping. ... ouch

What about adding a 2nd ATI to the sump? Would that be a possibility? There is room for 2 plus cost effective. ...?

[Myka]

I appreciate your concern. Would have been nice to have had all this info and help before purchasing everything. I can't blame anyone but myself for not doing my own due diligence. It's a hard pill to swallow spending $800 on the skimmer and $900 for the 2 cannister filters. Then plus even if I would be able to sell any of it (not likely anyone would want those canisters ) I'd be taking a big hit on that as well. I looked at the link you posted to the bubble King and 1900 euros. ... which would be roughly $4000 cad plus shipping. ... ouch

No, no you don't order direct from Bubble King. Here's a link for the Supermarin 300 at Reef Supplies which is a Canadian supplier and Canreef sponsor. Keep in mind the Canadian dollar has plummeted though, so the pricing ($2430) is probably not totally accurate. It's not in stock, but it could be ordered unless he's not carrying BK anymore for some reason (I see he only has one BK currently in stock). http://www.reefsupplies.ca/online-store/Bubble-King-Supermarin-300-internal-Protein-Skimmer.html If that doesn't work for you, PM me.

Where did you buy the canisters and the skimmer from? Were they special orders? Did you get them wet yet? How long ago did you buy them? Maybe you ca take them back just for a re-stocking fee? If all else fails, if you buy your new skimmer through the same place, then if they are a reputable dealer they should be willing to let you trade it back in for a re-stocking fee if it wasn't a special order. If it was a special order, you're probably hooped and would have to sell it yourself.

What about adding a 2nd ATI to the sump? Would that be a possibility? There is room for 2 plus cost effective. ...?

That's not a terrible option. You might need to modify the sump a bit so that the skimmers don't share a chamber so they aren't skimming water that the other just skimmed. I could draw you up a design...

See what you can do about taking those canisters back or selling them. They really aren't going to be much use to you and are worth more unused. Even if you sold them for $500 you could buy reactors with that money to run media and they would be way, way, way easier to work with than canisters.

[sphelps]

Love the tank size and how low it sits, pretty sweet. :thumb:

I'd suggest rather than upgrading the skimmer now is just running it for a while and adding a second one later. Why not run two small skimmers instead of one large? Actually makes more sense in a lot of ways when you think about it. Looks like you'll need a bigger sump to fit two but I'm pretty sure you probably need a bigger sump anyway :wink:. If you loose just an inch off the main display that's 21+ gallons alone plus the extra volume from plumbing, skimmer and the other tank you're setting up. Doesn't quite add up properly in my head so be careful of that, might need check valves as a minimum.

[travisc]

Thanks Sphelps!

I purchased everything from Golds. They had to order in everything tho...
the skimmer has been in fresh water for 2 days as we water tested. The 2 cannister filters are new in box (well one in the box as the 2nd box was taken out with the recycling this morning. ..)

I like the idea of adding another ATI skimmer then having to try to sell everything. One of the cannister filters were opened before I received it and the tubing and hoses were removed. I called Golds to see if I could exchange it for store credit for fish since I don't need the second one and that it was opened with parts removed. He said he would check with his supplier...so I don't think taking everything back is an option

[Myka]

Looks like you'll need a bigger sump to fit two but I'm pretty sure you probably need a bigger sump anyway :wink:. If you loose just an inch off the main display that's 21+ gallons alone plus the extra volume from plumbing, skimmer and the other tank you're setting up. Doesn't quite add up properly in my head so be careful of that, might need check valves as a minimum.

Yeah, there's a few things about the sump too... ;)

Like you said, there's probably not enough volume to catch the back flow from the plumbing, but also those 2 filter socks are going to plug up FAST with that much volume of water. Looks like a Concept built sump...they are good to deal with.

I purchased everything from Golds. They had to order in everything tho...
the skimmer has been in fresh water for 2 days as we water tested. The 2 cannister filters are new in box (well one in the box as the 2nd box was taken out with the recycling this morning. ..)

I like the idea of adding another ATI skimmer then having to try to sell everything. One of the cannister filters were opened before I received it and the tubing and hoses were removed. I called Golds to see if I could exchange it for store credit for fish since I don't need the second one and that it was opened with parts removed. He said he would check with his supplier...so I don't think taking everything back is an option

You should be able to at least take the one back for store credit since it was not complete. There's no reason you should be stuck with it.

[travisc]

Skimmer....sump...ugh!! Thanks for the extra grey hairs!! Lol

[Myka]

Skimmer....sump...ugh!! Thanks for the extra grey hairs!! Lol

You should have come here first!

Sorry, this always happens on someone's first build, it's just that your first build is huge so your mistakes will be huge. :wink:

[travisc]

I texted Matt at concept to see if the sump is large enough to hold a second skimmer. Physically there is room in the compartment for another ATI 250. Cost wise it would be another $800 ish to purchase another one. Then there would be no haste of returning or trying to sell equipment. The 2 skimmers then should be more then enough? Then really the only concern would be keeping a good eye on the socks ?

I really appreciate everyone's help, advice and praise on the tank. It may be a bit discouraging now but benificial in the long run. I may need a week on the beach to distress before I finish the set up though! Lol

[Myka]

I texted Matt at concept to see if the sump is large enough to hold a second skimmer. Physically there is room in the compartment for another ATI 250. Cost wise it would be another $800 ish to purchase another one. Then there would be no haste of returning or trying to sell equipment. The 2 skimmers then should be more then enough? Then really the only concern would be keeping a good eye on the socks ?

I really appreciate everyone's help, advice and praise on the tank. It may be a bit discouraging now but benificial in the long run. I may need a week on the beach to distress before I finish the set up though! Lol

Travis, the concern with the sump size is when there is a power out or the return and skimmer is shut off there will be back flow into the sump. The operating water level of the tank will be higher than the non-operating water level of the tank. All that volume, plus the volume in the pipes will back flow into the sump. Your sump size compared to the size of the display tank is very small, so there is a concern that you do not have enough empty volume in the sump to hold the back flow without the sump overflowing. Some people use check valves to prevent back flow, but they need to be cleaned regularly or they will leak, so a long power outage would mean a wet floor. The best option is to have a sump large enough to hold the full volume of back flow.

As far as the 2nd skimmer goes, you would want to run the skimmers in parallel rather than putting them both in the same chamber. If you put them both in that same chamber then they will be re-skimming water that the other has already skimmed and will thus be less efficient. The footprint of the skimmer is just over 16 x 10"? So if the sump is say 22" wide then you could put the skimmers beside eachother with a divider running between them and the water would flow through each section separately and prevent them re-skimming.

If you can forgive my prehistoric 2 min drawing...this is what I mean (use your imagination for the baffles between the skimmers and the return pump haha).
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k43/Myka82/Untitled.jpg

[sphelps]

I'd say the twin skimmers would be plenty and the second could be added later, no need to rush out and blow the $800 now. There's plenty of big salt tanks out there running no skimmer so I'm not going to say it's an absolute requirement but something to consider none the less as it would be quite beneficial. It also sounds like it will be cheaper to buy two skimmers rather than one larger one, plus if you every sold them you'd do much better with the smaller models.

For the sump volume just make sure nothing bad happens when you cut the power. Might be fine but to me looks like it runs around 2/3rds full so you have around 23 gallons of space at an absolute max. 1 inch from the display is 21 gallons so when you add the other factors you're short for sure. I also usually budget 2" from the display to be conservative as the other-flow teeth can clog up with algae and raise the water level a bit plus siphon back-flow will usually drop the water level in the display below the overflow. Check valves help but I don't recommend relying on them.

[sphelps]

As far as the 2nd skimmer goes, you would want to run the skimmers in parallel rather than putting them both in the same chamber. If you put them both in that same chamber then they will be re-skimming water that the other has already skimmed and will thus be less efficient. The footprint of the skimmer is just over 16 x 10"? So if the sump is say 22" wide then you could put the skimmers beside eachother with a divider running between them and the water would flow through each section separately and prevent them re-skimming.

Nah, that's a bit silly IMO. Yes theoretically makes some sense but with intakes put at one end and outputs put at the other and water flowing through the sump there's really no way of re-skimming water. And even so, so what? The water is constantly circulating through the sump, it'll get skimmed eventually.

[travisc]

I shut off all power to the pumps last night and the sump held all the water until the main tank level got below the overflow box. So that is good.

The sump slot is large enough for 2 skimmers but not wide enough to run them parallel as in the drawing. They would only be able to sit side by side

[Myka]

Nah, that's a bit silly IMO. Yes theoretically makes some sense but with intakes put at one end and outputs put at the other and water flowing through the sump there's really no way of re-skimming water. And even so, so what? The water is constantly circulating through the sump, it'll get skimmed eventually.

What's wrong with efficiency? The sump he has now would not fit them side by side, they'd be one after the other, they would definitely be re-skimming. I wouldn't buy a new sump just for this mod though.

I shut off all power to the pumps last night and the sump held all the water until the main tank level got below the overflow box. So that is good.

The sump slot is large enough for 2 skimmers but not wide enough to run them parallel as in the drawing. They would only be able to sit side by side

It all fits? That's good! How much extra space do you have? The skimmers will have volume in them as well, so they will add a bit to the sump when it's turned off too. As I said, I wouldn't go buy a new sump just for the parallel mod, but it would be ideal if you had to buy a bigger sump anyway.

As far as the socks go, you could put some egg crate on top of the sock holder and put some flat filter media in there instead if the socks clog up too fast or you get tired of washing them all the time.

[travisc]

I turned off everything, pump, skimmer and there was still a fair amount of room left in the sump before it would overflow. http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/traviscampbell9190/IMG_20150521_113452_zpsyvzwcscl.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/traviscampbell9190/media/IMG_20150521_113452_zpsyvzwcscl.jpg.html)

[sphelps]

What's wrong with efficiency? The sump he has now would not fit them side by side, they'd be one after the other, they would definitely be re-skimming. I wouldn't buy a new sump just for this mod though.

To be fair you suggested putting them side by side with a divider between, I was suggesting that divider is silly and really accomplishes nothing. Plus even in the same chamber one after the other doesn't guarantee output from one skimmer will enter the other, and even if this was a concern it would be rather simple to position the skimmers to make it less likely. If your concerns relate to efficiency your efforts would be much better spent elsewhere.

[sphelps]

I shut off all power to the pumps last night and the sump held all the water until the main tank level got below the overflow box. So that is good.

The sump slot is large enough for 2 skimmers but not wide enough to run them parallel as in the drawing. They would only be able to sit side by side

Cool, just keep an eye on it as things change over time, like I mentioned algae on the overflow guard, check valves not sealing properly and additional equipment like skimmers and reactors all add up. If you increase your return flow that will also increase the blow back.

I'd say running the skimmers side by side is perfectly fine, if Mindy is correct you'll notice the first skimmer is obviously doing a better job than the second but I'd bet you wouldn't notice any consistent difference between the two to suggest that is the case.

[Myka]

I turned off everything, pump, skimmer and there was still a fair amount of room left in the sump before it would overflow.

Awesome! :thumb:

To be fair you suggested putting them side by side with a divider between, I was suggesting that divider is silly and really accomplishes nothing. Plus even in the same chamber one after the other doesn't guarantee output from one skimmer will enter the other, and even if this was a concern it would be rather simple to position the skimmers to make it less likely. If your concerns relate to efficiency your efforts would be much better spent elsewhere.

The difference would probably be close to negligible, but it's neither here nor there because clearly his current sump is working just fine for him. :) For the record, I meant skimmer efficiency, not power efficiency.

[canadianbudz604]

Definatly a good way to start, go big or go home. What u gonna put in there?

[travisc]

After all the stress about skimmers and sumps I've decided to just go with goldfish! Lol
mostly nice big angels and tangs and soft coral.

[gregzz4]

Nice new thread title Keener !!

Lovin' your build size Travis :smile:
I see you're already taking all the advice in stride. This is a great attitude to adopt not only for forum advice but on-line stuff too. Good on ya.
Not much in this hobby is cast in concrete.
With that said ...

I like the idea of you adding a second skimmer once you start adding fish/things that produce waste.
As was stated, it will be much easier to sell 2 smaller skimmers down the road over 1 monster 1 that will target a very small market. Plus the cost of 2 big ones is SOOO much less than 1 monster.
And you'll have a nicer time servicing 2 units with an alternating schedule. Fully cleaning a skimmer's neck and cup retards it's ability for up to a few days, so having a pair would be awesome.

I also agree with you not using the canisters. They are pretty costly for what you will use them for - media reactors - and canisters can quickly become nitrate factories.
Regardless of how you re-purpose/sell them, I'll suggest you keep them out of this build.
Find some appropriate reactor units for things such as GFO/BioPellets and Carbon, and with a tank your size I HIGHLY recommend a Calcium reactor.
You really don't want to be messing with dosing Alk and Ca with that volume.
Small tanks like my 100g system are cheap and easy enough to monitor, but if I was to run a system as big as yours I'd go broke dosing, even with bulk 2-part :surprise:
It costs me upwards of $50/yr for bulk chems. Multiply that by 7 or 8 ..... :wink:
Calcium reactor media and CO2 is a far cry cheaper and much easier to maintain.

And socks ...
I currently use 3 x 4" felt socks (14" tall). They will plug up after 8-9 days and are swapped out weekly.
The equivalent to my 3 pack is 1 x 7" sock. (math)
I don't currently know my GPH flow through my sump, but math is telling me it's between 665 and "X" GPH.
In my case I've found the sweet spot for my skimmer's flow-through rate with the number being suggested @ 6.1 X total system volume (suggested for skimmer efficiency).

So, with me needing approximately 610ish gallons per hour flow through my sump (100g system x 6.1), 1 x 7" sock can handle it just fine. But it needs a weekly change.
In your case, math tells me you'll need a flow rate of;
650 gallon system just shy of 4,000 GPH
800 gallon system just shy of 4,900 GPH
And this will apply to your return pump selection, plus plumbing sizes.

So if you compare my system to say, your 650 TOTAL gallon system with a suggested proper flow rate of 6.1 times 650, you're looking at just shy of 4,000 GPH.

Your 4,000 GPH divided by my 610 GPH (for 1 sock) could potentially mean you need up to 6-1/2 or even 7 x 7" filter socks to handle the flow recommended for your skimmer(s) to handle your system ....... :surprise:

Once your system is populated, there's a math-based potential suggesting you will need to change your 2 x 7" filter socks every couple of days, so be prepared for it. Spare socks are part of my arsenal.

Keep the pics coming dude, we all thrive on them :biggrin:

[travisc]

Opinions??
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/traviscampbell9190/Mobile%20Uploads/20150521_225642_zpsktljhhul.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/traviscampbell9190/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150521_225642_zpsktljhhul.jpg.html)

[gregzz4]

I won't comment on your rock layout because I love lots of open spaces and open sandbed areas.
Rock bommies and such ...

OK, I'll put some input in ... :wink:
Now that I've had my tank running for 3 years, I've found that I regret many of my LR position choices.
If I could re-do my stuff, I'd have lots of low rock -midtank- for SPS growth and keep the rock to a minimum as to not affect/restrict flow from returns/powerheads.

My ideal tank/reset my tank will have rock no higher than 1/3rd the height of my tank, and probably not nearly as much poundage as what's recommended as far as pounds/gallon goes.

You have so much room in your tank, but so many flow issues to think about ....

[travisc]

I want to be able to see the fish swim around. I think I have lots of paths for the but also in the left corner some caves for them to hide. Some shelfs for coral. I don't know if I'm completely happy with it. But after 6 hours of climbing in an out of the tank carrying Crunk of live rock each weighing 60 pounds my back says it's good for now lol

[gregzz4]

I want to be able to see the fish swim around. I think I have lots of paths for the but also in the left corner some caves for them to hide. Some shelfs for coral. I don't know if I'm completely happy with it. But after 6 hours of climbing in an out of the tank carrying Crunk of live rock each weighing 60 pounds my back says it's good for now lol

I hear ya. I pack steel around and know it adds up.
100bs here, 75bs there, it adds up to a sore neck and a bad sleep.

Like I said, keep the swimming areas open for the BIG fish you will eventually buy and all will be good.
I like rock bommies as they encourage grouping/foraging, plus they are good for sandbed spacing. A bommie is a tower and leaves lots of room for a sandbed.

[gregzz4]

I'm all for lots of sandbed, so the less LR the better.
And a natural 'this here and that there' look.

Nothing in a Reef Tank looks worse than a 'fruitstand' layout, with it sloped from the back to the front.

[travisc]

I agree. I do not care for that look as well. But I quest everyone has their own ideas and preferences for aquascaping

[travisc]

And on the 2nd day he said "let there be light"!http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/traviscampbell9190/Mobile%20Uploads/20150522_191508_zpsw132qm4a.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/traviscampbell9190/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150522_191508_zpsw132qm4a.jpg.html)

[kien]

Maybe paint the PVC black or silver ? :-)

[travisc]

I'm using black gorilla tape to wrap all the wires to the pipe...so most of the pipe will be black. Maybe one day I'll pretty it up a bit. I just want this tank running lol

[Myka]

Opinions??

I think the rock is decent - I like the shelf pieces. I don't like that piece that's at the front near the right side that's sitting all by itself - I'd just remove it and have some nice open sand area. I might even remove the single one behind it too.

[travisc]

I agree. Jim and I moved that piece and a few others around on the right side today. Getting some figi crete off Eli tomorrow and I'll take a photo of the final design incase things get shifted again

[kien]

I just want this tank running

be careful what you wish for :lol:

oh, and I had to google gorilla tape. That's cool, except it'll be a royal pain in the ass to remove any one of those lights if you every need to service or replace one.

Maybe corrugated conduit piping ? They sell these at Ikea and other places to help wrap up and hide computer wires behind and under desks.

http://1.imimg.com/data/1/E/MY-629754/corrugated-conduits-pipes_250x250.jpg

Use it to wrap over your PVC and hold your light's wires in place. I use it under my stand to hide/cover my wires.

[travisc]

That's a good idea. Changed the right side of the tank rock around and created a cool cavern and overhang. http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/traviscampbell9190/Mobile%20Uploads/20150522_230607_zpsjvrnxyco.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/traviscampbell9190/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150522_230607_zpsjvrnxyco.jpg.html)

[travisc]

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/traviscampbell9190/Mobile%20Uploads/20150522_230527_zpscr5whlww.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/traviscampbell9190/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150522_230527_zpscr5whlww.jpg.html)

[travisc]

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/traviscampbell9190/Mobile%20Uploads/20150522_230553_zpsonfawjrh.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/traviscampbell9190/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150522_230553_zpsonfawjrh.jpg.html)

[eli@fijireefrock.com]

Its either my eyes or you are shaky with your photos...ask the rocks not to move and try again...just kidding looks great.

I have the original build on YouTube if you want to somewhat create the deep cave we did at the warehouse.Below is the link check it out,hope that helps a bit.
I agree with Kein on those corrugated conduit piping as I am using them for my lights wiring.
I feel a little different on the amount of rock than some other folks not that I am creating a crazy discussion simply from my own experiences.
I always believed for best filtration is as natural as possible with a little helping hand from Carbon and a reactor or dosing and as a main filtration would be the amount of surface created or placed in our little boxes that creates all types of pores (macropores, mesopores, micropores, fracture, vuggy,...)
There is no man made surface that is created for our hobby that contains all the surface require to carry a vast array of filtration bacteria than the rock we place in those boxes.Yes all rocks are not equal as some are heavier than others for a reason (Rocks normally decrease in porosity with age)
When you go diving most of the fish we have in our aquariums are in or near the rock work be it for shelter or food. In my case I have over 120 fish and counting without any loss or damage by picking or fighting for a hole to call home, and I still believe my system is empty.
All aquariums be it fish or reef setups are beautiful in my eyes simply cause the owner love what they are creating but with every design consequences arise,...
Click photo

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-wbor5aMn4wE/VWAU3kc57YI/AAAAAAAAIzg/7aRv63GTegs/w1024-h576-no/20150520_151237_zpseidzf7hj.jpg (https://youtu.be/ejDKxuWsUPY)

[travisc]

Got salt! Thanks! http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/traviscampbell9190/Mobile%20Uploads/20150526_150044_zpszxqafqmo.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/traviscampbell9190/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150526_150044_zpszxqafqmo.jpg.html)

[travisc]

My 1st additions! 10 cromies and a piece of pink coral!

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/traviscampbell9190/Mobile%20Uploads/20150701_173757_zpsz38tlwg5.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/traviscampbell9190/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150701_173757_zpsz38tlwg5.jpg.html)

[WarDog]

Aquascape looks awesome! Great start!

[travisc]

Thanks! I've had allot of help from Jim, Eli, Matt at Concepts and the guys at Golds! Even though opinions vary and I'll go through some learning pains, everyone had been helpful and supportive!

[Bblinks]

Got salt! Thanks! http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/traviscampbell9190/Mobile%20Uploads/20150526_150044_zpszxqafqmo.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/traviscampbell9190/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150526_150044_zpszxqafqmo.jpg.html)

Poor leather seats...lol

Great thread so far, Keep them pictures coming please.

[Duckhams]

That is one big build! I can't wait to see what you put in it! Exciting!

[Ginu]

Nice thread and keep the pics coming.

I'd like to add one thing as well in regards to the aquascape... I like what you did and love the shelfs and the pukani, I'm using the same rock from Eli and really happy with it, however try to keep/reaquascape if possible to a bare minimum in height...

If you plan on going SPS and they all start to grow in, you will have issues with the height, best is to use rock below the half point of the tank... I am currently thinking to redo my scape and trust me, I'm not looking forward to that...

Here is a link to my aquascape (http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=926652&postcount=40)which has already been changed a bit... the left pillar is no longer there and I'm most likely taking the right pillar down as well (the cement is holding on pretty well)

[travisc]

Thanks Ginu! I don't have to be concerned with the hight of the rock because I will be limited to the coral I can keep with the Angels I plan on adding to the tank. (For now anyways...I have been told I will change my mind later to remove the angels to have more of a variety of coral). For now it's leathers and softies...and experimenting on what will not be a tasty salad! Lol

[travisc]

Newest additions...yellow leather, coral beauty, 5 yellow tangs and a Chevron tang that thinks he is yellow...

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/traviscampbell9190/Mobile%20Uploads/20150707_170100_zpsontjrn6f.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/traviscampbell9190/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150707_170100_zpsontjrn6f.jpg.html)

[travisc]

Have most of my fish in now. A few more tangs to add, blonde naso, Mustard, Achilles. Adding a few torch and hammer and some various coral next week. So far everything has been going perfect with no problems ! #knocksonwood http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/traviscampbell9190/Mobile%20Uploads/20150719_184608_zps7lt5dyei.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/traviscampbell9190/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150719_184608_zps7lt5dyei.jpg.html)

[travisc]

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/traviscampbell9190/Mobile%20Uploads/20150719_184423_zpsh8hx0n4n.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/traviscampbell9190/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150719_184423_zpsh8hx0n4n.jpg.html)

[Snappy]

Nice build, things are coming along great!

[Myka]

Looks nice. You certainly stocked your tank very, very quickly considering you used dry rock. Did you use any bacteria products to help? What do you have for a clean up crew?

[Myka]

How's your tank doing Travis? Got some updates?

[Seth81]

Hopefully my Queen is doing well over there! I already miss the little guy

[travisc]

@seth81 your queen is doing great! @ Myka adding a few new pics and updates. Tank was in limbo for 2 months after an outbreak of ich crashed my tank :(
Was a very disheartening lesson to learn. But hopefully I have learned from my mistakes and an more knowledgeable now (and a little more patient ). Thanks to my buddy Jim and unfortunately him having to shut down his tank I got to adopt all his fish and got a few others.
I have gotten better lighting thanks to @ lastlight and added 4 radium 250w. Also adding a calcium reactor and UV sterilizer right away! http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/traviscampbell9190/Mobile%20Uploads/tank_zpsbdbrphyb.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/traviscampbell9190/media/Mobile%20Uploads/tank_zpsbdbrphyb.jpg.html)

[travisc]

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/traviscampbell9190/Mobile%20Uploads/20151008_153005_zps5yri3ulb.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/traviscampbell9190/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20151008_153005_zps5yri3ulb.jpg.html)

[travisc]

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/traviscampbell9190/Mobile%20Uploads/20150928_131015_zpsyjihwtc9.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/traviscampbell9190/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150928_131015_zpsyjihwtc9.jpg.html)

[Myka]

@ Myka adding a few new pics and updates. Tank was in limbo for 2 months after an outbreak of ich crashed my tank :(
Was a very disheartening lesson to learn. But hopefully I have learned from my mistakes and an more knowledgeable now (and a little more patient ). Thanks to my buddy Jim and unfortunately him having to shut down his tank I got to adopt all his fish and got a few others.
I have gotten better lighting thanks to @ lastlight and added 4 radium 250w. Also adding a calcium reactor and UV sterilizer right away!

Yes, patience is a virtue when it comes to saltwater tanks that's for sure. It's certainly not recommended to add as many fish as you did in less than a month. Poor fish. :( With a tank the size of yours you really should consider a quarantine system. It only takes one fish to wipe out the entire tank (as you've already learned), and even if you take all the time in the world that last fish could easily be the Marine Velvet vector you really don't want. You think Ich is bad? Try Marine Velvet. Many a tank on Canreef has been lost due to MV.

That's great you're pimpin Radions! Nice upgrade! :D

[travisc]

I do have a quarantine tank now.... but with a tank my size it would be next to impossible to get an infected fish out of the tank. I don't know if I had ick or marine velvet. Everyone says it was ick but I'm not sure. All I know is that within a couple days all my fish were dead. I'm adding a UV staralizer and hopefully that will help with any parasite.

[travisc]

Ick or velvet?http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/traviscampbell9190/Mobile%20Uploads/20150730_182455_zpsx5z4lwb6.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/traviscampbell9190/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150730_182455_zpsx5z4lwb6.jpg.html)

[Myka]

I vote for Marine Velvet since the fish were wiped out so quick - the easiest way to tell is while the fish is still alive to give them a FW dip and see if the spots come off or not. Ich won't come off in a FW dip.

Here's a good comparative source. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2119086

[Skimmer Juice]

sucks to loose all those fish , its to bad . Well at least you have a qt now

[davej]

One thing I remember reading was, if you can count the spots (within reason) then its ick, if the spots are too numerous to count then velvet.

[kien]

Ouch. That's painful to see. Sorry for your losses :-(

I've had both ick and I think velvet. The velvet wiped out my tank swiftly and looked like what you pictured. My tangs frequently get ick (even to this day) whenever there are stressors in/to the tank and they always seem to fight off the ick.

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Unfortunately, with Marine Velvet, if you don't start a copper treatment, it's usually fatal. During a breakout in Metro Vancouver a few years ago, only one buddy who treated his tank with copper saved his fish. Massive losses in other affected tanks. Sorry to hear this has happened to you. It is heart breaking to lose all your fish.

Anthony

[travisc]

Thanks everyone for their concern. I'm not an expert but I have now seen a few fish with ick and it sort of looks like pimples under the skin with white heads (best as I can describe it. Coming from a pimpley teenager myself). What my fish had looked as if the swam through a big cobweb. Either the case it was a lesson learned not only the money but to kill such beautiful creatures. But fresh start, and the tank is more mature. Will all new additions going in a quarantine tank now.

[travisc]

Perfect way to describe it Davej

[travisc]

Well the 1st year has been a struggle to say the least. Many upgrades, lots of banging my head against the wall, and many a dollar spent. But learning lots and trying my best at this large tank. Things are growing nicely from looking at the pictures now compared to a year agohttp://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/traviscampbell9190/Mobile%20Uploads/tank_zpsbdbrphyb.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/traviscampbell9190/media/Mobile%20Uploads/tank_zpsbdbrphyb.jpg.html)

[travisc]

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/traviscampbell9190/Mobile%20Uploads/Resized_20160809_164823_zpspa5gfz4i.jpeg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/traviscampbell9190/media/Mobile%20Uploads/Resized_20160809_164823_zpspa5gfz4i.jpeg.html)

[Myka]

Looking awesome! You've done a great job on this massive tank!

[travisc]

Thanks Mindy! 😆

[travisc]

Looking at upgrading my orbit marine led's. Upgrading my sump pump. Addiing a calcium reactor and a profulix system with auto doser. Would like more LPS. Slowly adding fish and dI'd get a 125g quarantine tank

[Myka]

Quarantine tank is good to hear! What is your protocol now?

You're getting some great growth in the tank. What type of lighting are you wanting to upgrade to? Have you considered Apex as well as Profilux? Both are very good systems. The Profilux does have the stand alone doser too which is nice if you don't want the entire controller system.

[travisc]

I did add 4 radion 400w last year. I was considering radion wr30w pro instead of my marine orbits. I purchased the profulix system with auto doser on kiji last year with a big detec skimmer that both were new from a guy getting out of the hobby. I also added a bio pellet reactor and have no algea issues at all anymore

[Myka]

I did add 4 radion 400w last year. I was considering radion wr30w pro instead of my marine orbits. I purchased the profulix system with auto doser on kiji last year with a big detec skimmer that both were new from a guy getting out of the hobby. I also added a bio pellet reactor and have no algea issues at all anymore

That sounds awesome - good score. Radions are my favorite LED fixture, but I'm not a fan of LEDs. Have you considered supplementing with halides at all? You'd get more natural looking light with the punch to get the depth (I'd suggest some T5, but not with your tank depth). You may find increased growth and color if you have a way to deal with heat.

[travisc]

Yes I have 4, 400w halides http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/traviscampbell9190/Mobile%20Uploads/20151008_153005_zps5yri3ulb.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/traviscampbell9190/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20151008_153005_zps5yri3ulb.jpg.html)

[Myka]

Yes I have 4, 400w halides

So you do! Good call. :)

[travisc]

I have had a few people over to my house and am being told to update my build and post pictures. I have upgraded my skimmer to a large deltec, added a red dragon pump for more flow, added 3 vertex media reactors (2 for carbon and 1 for GFO), and added a large calcium reactor. I just bought a tank shut down of sps, LPS, and 3 large clams! I only have a few more fish to add then it's sit back and enjoy. The most pleasing thing is 4 months without any ich or death!! http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/traviscampbell9190/Mobile%20Uploads/20161112_190140_zpsg0qq85ys.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/traviscampbell9190/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161112_190140_zpsg0qq85ys.jpg.html)

[travisc]

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/traviscampbell9190/Mobile%20Uploads/20161112_190149_zpslafddpr4.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/traviscampbell9190/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161112_190149_zpslafddpr4.jpg.html)

[travisc]

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/traviscampbell9190/Mobile%20Uploads/20161112_190207_zpsbaeeqjlg.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/traviscampbell9190/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161112_190207_zpsbaeeqjlg.jpg.html)

[travisc]

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/traviscampbell9190/Mobile%20Uploads/20161110_115754_zpsvfpx8gjn.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/traviscampbell9190/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161110_115754_zpsvfpx8gjn.jpg.html)

[travisc]

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/traviscampbell9190/Mobile%20Uploads/20161110_115739_zpsu4ufvizg.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/traviscampbell9190/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161110_115739_zpsu4ufvizg.jpg.html)

[travisc]

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/traviscampbell9190/Mobile%20Uploads/20161110_115746_zpsc5vmkv5o.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/traviscampbell9190/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161110_115746_zpsc5vmkv5o.jpg.html)

[Bugger]

Damn bud sure have a tank there alright

[travisc]

Thank you! It's coming...

[Myka]

Dang Travis, that is looking AWESOME!!!

[travisc]

Beautiful, peaceful...can sit for hours and finally enjoy.
A few fish to add that are in the qt but other then that I'm done my build! Thanks everyone for their support, advise and kind words. Only left is tank of the month! 😆http://rs12.pbsrc.com/albums/a237/traviscampbell9190/Mobile%20Uploads/20161122_163527_zps5bndon0c.mp4?w=160&h=160&fit=clip (http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/traviscampbell9190/Mobile%20Uploads/20161122_163527_zps5bndon0c.mp4)

[brotherd]

That IS nice! Well done.

[travisc]

Tried to upload a video but guess it's not working....or I don't know how lol

[Myka]

Done?!?! Is a reef EVER done??? :eek:

[travisc]

Lol! Maybe some selling frags as everything grows!

[Myka]

You'll decide to renovate one day...I'm guessing less than a year. :D

[travisc]

Lol renovate? I built the basement just for the tank a year ago! Only thing would be to build a new house and go really big like 3500 gallon mixed reef tank

[Myka]

Renovate IN the aquarium! ;)

[kien]

Done?!?! Is a reef EVER done??? :eek:

Yes. A reef is done once the water has been drained.

[duncangweller]

Looking great. I love the site of a shoal of tangs swimming by. Keep up the good work.

Dunc

[travisc]

Thanks Dunc! I love the Sohal! King of the tank but not too aggressive. I have 2 clips I keep Nori sheets or spinach leaves on and keeps him busy grazing all day. So many beautiful fish and the Sohal is definitely one of my favorites. But I think the queen angelfish when mature is my favorite! Such a most neon colors. What is everyone's favorite fish??