Algae Problems, Blah.

[Travillion]

Hey guys,

I know there are a ton of algae posts, but generally it is because of new tanks, high nitrates, lighting, non-regular water changes, no CUC, etc.

So here's my problem. I have a nasty case of hair algae that just won't quit, and I cannot figure out an explanation. I want to stop it, and rid my tank of it before it's too late.

My 28G tank is over a half year old now, and completed it's cycle about a month in. It's diatom stage came and went, then the algae came, and eventually started to diminish. However it never fully went away. It's main point of focus is right on my live rock, which is the very porous pukani rock. It gets right into the crevices.

My CUC consists of astrea and turbo snails, hermits and an urchin. I swear these guys never even touch the algae on my live rock. They've done a good job with keeping the glass clean, but nothing else. **My tank is bare bottom, so I did not feel the need for nassarius and other sand bed critters.**

I run an RW-8 along with the included pumps for circulation.

I have a TUNZE 9001 protein skimmer and filter foam (rinse out daily) for filtration.

Maxspect Razor 60W 16K lighting that never goes over 80%.

20% water changes weekly using my own RO/DI unit. TDS readings at 0.

Nitrates: 0

Nitrites: 0

Ammonia: 0

All I have for fish are two young clowns and a six-line wrasse, certainly not overfed.

Lots of softies and LPS that seem to be doing well, though my zoas and paly's haven't had much growth :(

I am probably forgetting to tell you guys something, so please just ask me anything specific and I will be able to answer.

Any help is strongly appreciated.

[reefwars]

Assuming since you only psted amonia , nitrites and nitrates that your using the api test kits?

Po4 reading ? (Phosphate)

[Skimmin]

I had very similar... if not the same issues you speak of when I was not watching my Kh. It was low for the first couple months of my tank and I seen the same results regarding nasty algae growth. My tank is all pukani. I have been keeping my kh elevated at around 9 to 10. In the last month or so I now have no nuisance algae and the coraline is coming in great, almost completely covering all the rock now. My tank has almost been running 6 months now. I also dose vinegar. Not sure if that has anything to do with it but I'm very happy with my tank... Right now at least lol.

[gregzz4]

New tank needs new rock ...
Biggest regret I have is starting my tank with 'fake' rock.

I tried base rock and I hated the results. I still hate it now 3 years in.
I'm considering a complete tank reset because of it.

Buy new/live rock and avoid all the base/pukani/whatever stuff they sell.

Just my opinion, and I'm sure I'll be shot down, but it's the way to go.

[reefwars]

Greggzzzzzgz is right , the only way to do it is with pure liverock anything else doesn't work , can't work and just plain isn't right......according to god lol

[Aquattro]

Greggzzzzzgz is right , the only way to do it is with pure liverock anything else doesn't work , can't work and just plain isn't right......according to god lol

Agreed :)

[reefwars]

Agreed :)

Interested in a Kenya tree?

[Aquattro]

Interested in a Kenya tree?

Brown??

[reefwars]

Brown??

" i " dont think its brown maybe more like a mild rusty pinkish color :)

[Aquattro]

" i " dont think its brown maybe more like a mild rusty pinkish color :)

I have nothing to trade. Take a couple hun cash?

[reefwars]

I have nothing to trade. Take a couple hun cash?

Haha Please if your going to lowball me at least do it in pm lol umm how about a couple hundy and an JF make believe? Just keeping the negotiation tables open don't want to sell myself short :)

[Aquattro]

Sorry, didn't mean to be rude, just been a tough month and funds are low. Hope you get a better trade!

[Travillion]

Assuming since you only psted amonia , nitrites and nitrates that your using the api test kits?

Po4 reading ? (Phosphate)
I think you may have pinned it. I do test for most, I have three separate test kits. Phosphate levels are at 0.05, which is a bit higher then the respectable levels. I understand that the best solution for this would be to incorporate a macro-algae refuge. Now how would I go about that on a NanoCube? The slot where the included 3-tiered-filter thing is now where my protein skimmer is, and I understand most people would use that for their macro algae refuge.

[Aquattro]

I think an easier solution is simply bigger/more frequent water changes.

[reefwars]

I think you may have pinned it. I do test for most, I have three separate test kits. Phosphate levels are at 0.05, which is a bit higher then the respectable levels. I understand that the best solution for this would be to incorporate a macro-algae refuge. Now how would I go about that on a NanoCube? The slot where the included 3-tiered-filter thing is now where my protein skimmer is, and I understand most people would use that for their macro algae refuge.

Not necessarily , for po4 in a small tank like yours with the aio chamber I would run a bag of gfo/rowaphos or at least something like chemipure and then if running a skimmer or another form of mechanical filtration I would start soluable carbon dosing......both of these can be manipulated to your liking and has less guess work then say what a fist sized piece of cheato will do (does any body know?)

In a tank like yours add 2.5 ml daily of 5% white vinegar for a week and then double it each week up until about week 3 or week 4 or around 10ml a day in total. This would be added daily.

If you have the means to remove available nutrients before say macro algaes have a chance to use up available nutrients then you've just eliminated a middle man in your task;) if your want other benefits from a fuge there are def a few but I wouldn't consider nutrient export as the most efficient purpose it would have.

[reefwars]

I think an easier solution is simply bigger/more frequent water changes.

There's def many ways to skin a cat and this works well to :) but again if you can attack something at its root you wouldn't need to use the fallback plan , not that there's anyone wrong with large water changes (I'm actually pro this for many reasons just not nutrient export)

[Travillion]

Great information. Thank you both.
I figured 20% weekly changes was quite a bit, but I guess not. What is the suggested changes for a 28G?
Also a random question here. When doing water changes, should I leave my skimmer running or turn it off? The water gets so low in the chambers that it almost runs dry. I'm scared that if I turn it off it will restart and take another week or two to get going again.

[Aquattro]

I change 50% every 2 weeks. Most don't do that tho. More is always better IMO.
The skimmer can stay on as long as there is water in the pump, but I wouldn't let it run dry for more than a very short while

[reefwars]

I do about 25% weekly as well:)

[garwood]

could it be the pukani. my tank is almost 3 months now. went through the diatoms then the gha and this has continued since. My clean up crew cant keep up. Im reading 0 nitrates but im assuming the algae is taking it up therefor giving me the 0 reading. my phos was 1.6 but added a reactor and got to about 0.04 but never any lower. I bleached and acid bathed the rock and let it soak for a week. i suspect the pukani has phos still leaching out.:cry:

[reefwars]

could it be the pukani. my tank is almost 3 months now. went through the diatoms then the gha and this has continued since. My clean up crew cant keep up. Im reading 0 nitrates but im assuming the algae is taking it up therefor giving me the 0 reading. my phos was 1.6 but added a reactor and got to about 0.04 but never any lower. I bleached and acid bathed the rock and let it soak for a week. i suspect the pukani has phos still leaching out.:cry:

I would have my doubts , how small of water volume are we talking? Rock can only leach phosphates for so long it's not something that is created long term and if you acid bathed the rock then its surface has been stripped clean. How do you export nutrients now and when did you start with phosphate removers?

It's not just nitrates and phosphates that algae uses but other elements as well, and some algaes are tolerant of low nutrient conditions so as the saying goes know your enemy to find his weaknesses ....basically I.D the algae

A pic would help :)

[reefwars]

Also fwiw , gha is not a phase that you have to go through its certainly not a guarantee regardless of the type of rock you use so at the point of gha you should be asking yourself what's missing here? It all comes down to access to nutrients .......who has access to them first and what they do with them and what I or you can do to use this to my advantage ;)

Manipulating how nutrients are used and exported can be one of the most useful tools in keeping a healthy reef be it to keep away pest algaes or to overall improve animal health.

[Travillion]

Should I go with an 11oz bag of Chemi-Pure Elite?
Not sure what GFO is?

[reefwars]

Should I go with an 11oz bag of Chemi-Pure Elite?
Not sure what GFO is?
Gfo is a tupe of phosphate remover and chemipure is a mix of carbon and gfo in one:) the 11oz bad of chemipure should be fine its mostly carbon anyways :)

[garwood]

I would have my doubts , how small of water volume are we talking? Rock can only leach phosphates for so long it's not something that is created long term and if you acid bathed the rock then its surface has been stripped clean. How do you export nutrients now and when did you start with phosphate removers?

It's not just nitrates and phosphates that algae uses but other elements as well, and some algaes are tolerant of low nutrient conditions so as the saying goes know your enemy to find his weaknesses ....basically I.D the algae

A pic would help :)
The algae is green hair algae, its a 70gallon tank with a 30 gallon sump. For nutrient export i am using sro 1000 protein skimmer and been doin 10 gallon water changes a week. i am using phosban in one reactor and carbon in another that was started about a month ago. im not saying bad about the rock. i love the rock, most amazing looking rock ive ever seen, but heard it could be a reason with algae probs in other peoples posts. got 3 chromis and lawn mower blenny and all kinds of snails and a few small hermits. been feeding mysis and pellets but not overfeeding. so i dont know what could be driving it

[garwood]

Also fwiw , gha is not a phase that you have to go through its certainly not a guarantee regardless of the type of rock you use so at the point of gha you should be asking yourself what's missing here? It all comes down to access to nutrients .......who has access to them first and what they do with them and what I or you can do to use this to my advantage ;)

Manipulating how nutrients are used and exported can be one of the most useful tools in keeping a healthy reef be it to keep away pest algaes or to overall improve animal health.
I thought that just as diatoms is one stage, that gha came next in succession but should fade in time. And to think i was happy to see the diatoms (finally something happening). If the gha is hogging all nutrients (like nitrate) im worried that any anaerobic bacteria wont have a chance to grow and that nitrates would always be avail to gha first and therefore the gha support it self in an on going cycle. I dont know where the nutrients are coming from, it was happening even before the cuc.

[reefwars]

I thought that just as diatoms is one stage, that gha came next in succession but should fade in time. And to think i was happy to see the diatoms (finally something happening). If the gha is hogging all nutrients (like nitrate) im worried that any anaerobic bacteria wont have a chance to grow and that nitrates would always be avail to gha first and therefore the gha support it self in an on going cycle. I dont know where the nutrients are coming from, it was happening even before the cuc.

No it's not , green hair algae is certainly something that you don't wait for or ride out and has absolutely nothing to do with the nitrogen cycle , if your phosphates manage to get to 1.6 the you allowed the nutrients to control you and gave the algae a food source , you waited too long before taking action. a great tip is its easier to prevent then it is to remove

I'll use my own system as a perfect example , this system does the opposite of what most reefers will tell you what to do , it's loaded with don't do this or you'll end up with that's... Going by the rules of reefing I should have a nutrient soup of pests but I don't in fact I have a purely algae free system , loaded with corals and fish , rock is Coraline covered and an abundance of sponges and feather dusters all over the tank and this system is around 10mths old.you'd be hard pressed to find a white spot of anything anywhere in the tank it's packed in full.

My recipe for disaster:

Tap water
No live rock
All pukani
No acid or bleach
No cure
No live sand


So why is my system running perfectly and how did I go around all this?

I manipulated the nutrients as I needed them , I first stripped the system bare and added what I needed when I needed it and removed anything I didn't ......it's that simple I didn't jump on the boat and go for a ride I hopped my own boat and drove exactly where I needed to go :)

[Aquattro]

I didn't jump on the boat and go for a ride I hopped my own boat and drove exactly where I needed to go :)

Where's the fun in that?? lol But ya, proactively having a plan and implementing it is the correct course. Reacting to stuff is a poor backup plan.

[reefwars]

Where's the fun in that?? lol But ya, proactively having a plan and implementing it is the correct course. Reacting to stuff is a poor backup plan.

Like Albert said in another thread about the shrimp , traditionally we add fish or something slowly rotting to get an ammonia source but among other things as well , if we want ammonia then add amonia directly , it's a great example of having the option to manipulate this to your advantage you have the power to add and take it away and therefore you have control if you choose to use it :)