In need of help from experienced sps keepers!

[jason604]

Hey guys so I've been having many trouble keeping sps lately n things r rly going downhill n I'm in dire need of help from an experience sps keeper to come over if possible n help me figure out what I'm doing wrong with my set up. I can pay or give frags whatever you prefer for your time. My tank crashed when I upgraded tanks by forgetting to install my carbon n rowaphos reactor I think and many sps died. But now I see all my LPS super happy and puffy but sps rtning or stning so I know something is rly wrong with sps only. I had a giant green slimer that was all browned out from tank swap but was healing n regaining color but last week or so it started to rtn then 2 nights ago I forgot to turn on my power heads and in the morning it was pretty much fully slimed up and died. Today I noticed my sunset milli mini colony rtn at its base and flesh peeling so I super glue all the rtn parts. Also my red planet mini colony is also rtn in its center and it's rly hard to glue those areas. I'm rly lost to what to do now and so tired of buying sps n it dying. Literally throwing tons of $$ out the window!! would really some appreciate help!

All my params looks normal so That makes me stress more.
Alk is steady 8-9. Salifert
Cal steady 420. Salifert
Mag is a lil low around 1050 but it's always been like that since day 1 which shouldn't kill so suddenly. Salifert
Sg 1.025
Temp 79deg
Nitrates 0 via sea chem
Phosphate 0 via hanna checker but I do have to clean my glass everyday

For equipment
Radions gen 1 x2
Skimmer is a vertex omega 150
110gal tank

Green slimer. Fully rtn now. I still keep it in my tank tho to cover space
http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b578/kosin604/E0788010-43F0-40BC-AF54-0D84E07A9F09_zpsgaectk9u.jpg (http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/kosin604/media/E0788010-43F0-40BC-AF54-0D84E07A9F09_zpsgaectk9u.jpg.html)

Sunset milli. Turned more green now. It was super fuzzy when it was in the frag tank chamber of my sump under par 38 but seem to lose all polyp extension since i put it in my DT 3-4 weeks ago
http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b578/kosin604/A8AA67A6-5280-41B5-9280-22A56073CFCC_zpsj96rirdf.jpg (http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/kosin604/media/A8AA67A6-5280-41B5-9280-22A56073CFCC_zpsj96rirdf.jpg.html)

Red plant rtn started 3 weeks ago at some tips but i super glued it and it totally stopped till today.
http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b578/kosin604/1F3FCCD9-5E17-4B8E-9133-E4956991E02C_zps4ul3l4dv.jpg (http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/kosin604/media/1F3FCCD9-5E17-4B8E-9133-E4956991E02C_zps4ul3l4dv.jpg.html)

[Aquattro]

parameters all look fine, Mg is lower than most people like, but that won't kill corals. Have you dipped anything to see if you've got AEFW? A bad infestation could set off that kind of damage.

[jason604]

I dip every single coral I buy with revive before I add to tank. I just did a quick google of AeFw and I don't think I'm experienced enough to tell if it's just fish poop or actually aefw if I dip.

[Aquattro]

You'd see them moving around before they die. With that type of damage, you'd have a lot.

[jason604]

Arhhhhh God dammit. I have revive and Lugol iodine. Which should I use and how long. If I see it on 1 frag should I dip them all in the same bucket or seperate each? I have a lot of sps frags should I also do that to frags I see not damaged? Do aefw only affect sps and my LPS will be unaffected? Do they stay on rocks as well?

[Aquattro]

If, and right now it's just if, you have AEFW at the level needed to cause that damage, you're screwed. They only affect acropora, not anything else. Dipping is to prevent them getting in to the tank in the first place, once in, they're in. You would need to remove them all to a separate system, dip repeatedly over a long time.
But for now, cut a branch and dip it in whatever dip you like. If worms come off, you'll see them. Translucent oval little suckers. Check that, then see where to go from there.

[hunggi74]

First you have to confirm that you have AEFW. Like Brad said, fish poop don't move. Dip an affected colony and see if any worms fall off. At this point I'd take my crappiest looking affected colony and dip in strong mix of Revive and leave it in there for longer than recommended. Shake the colony hard to see if any fall off.Check your frag base for eggs too. Any bite marks on your Sps skin? Will look like oblong patches of white on SPS body. If it AEFW it's treatable. But you need to get on it ASAP good luck

[strider]

Yes do the aefw test as suggested above.

IMO It looks more like slow RTN.
I had similar issue last month. I had to cut off the Good pieces and re-glue and Remove the dead coral from the tank and ran fresh carbon. Changed after a week. Things seem to be ok now and corals are opening.

That's my 2cents.

[jason604]

Oh man I did a stronger revive dip on my sunset colony for about 10 mins then turkey blast it n it's tissue was tearing off. The water container is rly cloudy with too much stuff but I put it in another container of tank water n gave it a good shook. Here's the pic n I do see tiny brown oval things moving in a circular motion.

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b578/kosin604/7F96C15D-CDFA-4DD4-9FF5-3D6051FC77A4_zpsqk7mhvaa.jpg (http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/kosin604/media/7F96C15D-CDFA-4DD4-9FF5-3D6051FC77A4_zpsqk7mhvaa.jpg.html)

Here's a macro shot with my iPhone lens attachment of a sps frag that's mother fully rtn a month ago n here's whats left. Are these eggs?

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b578/kosin604/206C5811-73CD-4E28-9D05-45CDA492E020_zps9xox3i0w.jpg (http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/kosin604/media/206C5811-73CD-4E28-9D05-45CDA492E020_zps9xox3i0w.jpg.html)

[TimT]

Have you added any new fish or corals/liverock lately?

What salt mix are you using? When was the last water change? Do you use RO water? When were the pre filters changed? Any idea on the TDS of the effluent?

Can you check your ammonia, nitrite and copper?

Has there been any dry cleaning or carpet cleaning done recently? Any fumigation or painting etc.

[hunggi74]

Have you added any new fish or corals/liverock lately?

What salt mix are you using? When was the last water change? Do you use RO water? When were the pre filters changed? Any idea on the TDS of the effluent?

Can you check your ammonia, nitrite and copper?

Has there been any dry cleaning or carpet cleaning done recently? Any fumigation or painting etc.

Easy Tim!! Lol! You sure you went to Hawaii and not Guantanamo?
I'm kidding! Tim is right, any chance any aerosol cleaning agents may have been used around your tank recently.
And it doesn't look like AEFW in your Revive water.

[jason604]

Have you added any new fish or corals/liverock lately?

What salt mix are you using? When was the last water change? Do you use RO water? When were the pre filters changed? Any idea on the TDS of the effluent?

Can you check your ammonia, nitrite and copper?

Has there been any dry cleaning or carpet cleaning done recently? Any fumigation or painting etc.

i added 2 fishes into my new tank b4 i swapped everything from my old tank over. and 5 more new fishes last week, but my sps were rtn before those 5 fish were added. I moved over 10-15% of live rock from my old tank over and the rest is rock that i bleached and acid bath so its super clean and cycled for 2 months b4 using. I use only RO water and filters are still relatively new.. about 2 months old filters. TDS before RO is about 11 or 12 i think and ro output is always 0ppm. My last water change was on sat cuz my hawaiian feather duster got killed by my cleaner shrimp. i did tear down some drywall while the tank was empty but it was cleaned properly and did paint the walls when the tank was running with some livestock in my fishroom but i was careful and did cover the tank. Painting was done 2 months ago so that should be ruled out. Havnt checked ammonia and dont have a kit for copper but my nitrite is 0.

Easy Tim!! Lol! You sure you went to Hawaii and not Guantanamo?
I'm kidding! Tim is right, any chance any aerosol cleaning agents may have been used around your tank recently.
And it doesn't look like AEFW in your Revive water.

no aerosols been used

R u sure cuz i saw tiny oval things move slowly in circles in still water.

[hunggi74]

AEFW you're looking for light brown to tan colored oblong flatworms. The ones I have seen looked like tiny flaps of skin squirming in the water.
Get a flashlight with red cellophane taped to the lens and look at night in your tank for possible pests eating your SPS. Until then, I'd cut what you have that's still good and remount on plugs. Didn't you run into STN or RTN on your previous tank too? I wonder if there is a connection...

[jason604]

AEFW you're looking for light brown to tan colored oblong flatworms. The ones I have seen looked like tiny flaps of skin squirming in the water.
Get a flashlight with red cellophane taped to the lens and look at night in your tank for possible pests eating your SPS. Until then, I'd cut what you have that's still good and remount on plugs. Didn't you run into STN or RTN on your previous tank too? I wonder if there is a connection...

yea i had stn and rtn in my old tank before as well, but that was with me messing up my dosing and letting param fluctuate so much. My params look fine this time tho which makes me have a headache

[reefwars]

It's simple.....you need more super glue ;)

[Myka]

In all your pics, I see a bunch of what was dry rock (or appears that way since it's shock white with diatoms growing on it). When did you switch the tank over? Did you use new sand or old sand? How long was the new tank running before you moved the corals over? Did you use any bacteria products to help the new tank? If so, which ones? I'm thinking it's "new tank with dry rock syndrome" (yes I made that up).

[Aquattro]

I'm thinking it's "new tank with dry rock syndrome" (yes I made that up).

I like it :)

[Ryanerickson]

I also think it looks like you may be adding sps way before your system is ready some people wait for upto a year not saying you need to but your system needs more cycle time in my opinion also you should fix your mag that's pretty low.get a container of mag chloride and mag sulphate at jl. You can use randys 2 part recipe for mixing instructions (found on Google) it will take a lot to get it where you want it. Just because you mag has always been low don't make it right. Personally I would be worried if my mag was at that level.also if your phosphate is zero that's a issue but think you may wanna review the instruction with your Hanna with all that sps melting away your phosphate are rising not a chance there zero. By the way I keep my phoshate no lower then .03 no higher then .06 I find any lower you loose colour any higher you grow algae.

[Myka]

Agreed ^

[Aquattro]

My 180, full of SPS, ran at 1050ppm Mg for it's entire existence. I didn't have any issues with corals. The Mg value here is not the problem.

I also started my new tank with dead/dry rock, new water, new sand and 60 SPS frags. All did well at the same values OP has posted, and color and tissue stayed on the pieces. Higher PO4 eventually retarded growth, but never lost any tissue/color on a brand new setup with everything dry. Again, while not optimal in my opinion, not the problem here.

[Ryanerickson]

I agree the mag is not the issue just not ideal either, low mag I find effects torches hammers (don't inflate well)I would guess Jason's issue is phosphates but who knows seems like you are always having issues.

[Aquattro]

I would guess Jason's issue is phosphates

I would have previously agreed, but my current tank hit 0.47ppm PO4 and the corals never looked better :)

I would guess some type of contaminant or a nasty bacteria maybe? I think water chem for standard items is ok.

Problem with this case is everything looks ok, so really hard to tell by a snapshot described in an online thread.

[jason604]

In all your pics, I see a bunch of what was dry rock (or appears that way since it's shock white with diatoms growing on it). When did you switch the tank over? Did you use new sand or old sand? How long was the new tank running before you moved the corals over? Did you use any bacteria products to help the new tank? If so, which ones? I'm thinking it's "new tank with dry rock syndrome" (yes I made that up).

I swapped my tank about a month and a half ago. I used 99% new sand. Rock was acid and bleached then cycled in a bin for 2-3 months before I used it. I then put in new tank with about 90% new salt water and 10% from old tank with a half cup of clean sand from old tank each week during water changes to help it cycle for 1.5 months before I swap everything over. I did not use any bacteria products since i watched it cycle to no nitrite nitrate and ammonia.

I agree the mag is not the issue just not ideal either, low mag I find effects torches hammers (don't inflate well)I would guess Jason's issue is phosphates but who knows seems like you are always having issues.

I bought schlobster chloride and sulfate from JL but have not used it yet since I still have some seachem but I guess I should just toss seachem Cuz I can't ever seem to increase mag safely with it pass 1150. I think I should carefully test hanna kit multiple times to make sure it's correct. Al my LPS are super duper happy and colorful it's just some sps r affected. My digis, birdnest, monti plates are doing fine but I guess they are less demanding. Yes I am constantly having problems with my tank n tossing $$ out the window n this has got to stop. That's why I was asking if somee1 can come over and look at my setup n my reef keeping regime to point me into the right direction. U will be compensated as well as filled with beer =). At this point I'm pretty bummed with my constant failures in this hobby. If Im unable to correct things and my sps end up all dying I might just do a full LPS and softy tank even tho I love sps much more.

It's simple.....you need more super glue ;)

Oh if only I can count how many super glue tubes Ive been through lol. Each time I go dollar store the cashier is always shocked n ask like what am I doing with that many lol.

So is it confirmed that there wasn't any AeFW in my after dip container?

[Aquattro]

So is it confirmed that there wasn't any AeFW in my after dip container?


didn't appear to be any in the pic..

[jason604]

didn't appear to be any in the pic..

Thx Brad. I guess that's some sort of relief. U rly scared me last night with the Im screwed if it's that bad talk lol

[Aquattro]

Well, you don't have a lot of acro, so you would have been best to toss them, wait however long it takes for AEFW to die, then start over. You can treat if you have a lot of expensive pieces, but yours don't look healthy enough to get through what would be needed. Screwed is all relative, so wouldn't have been terribly painful :)

Still not sure what's going on, IMO acropora are no more sensitive than other SPS you have. So it does appear to be something specific to them.

[jason604]

Yes it's so weird. Everything of mine that ends with pora seems to been targeted.

[Aquattro]

Yes it's so weird. Everything of mine that ends with pora seems to been targeted.

montis and birdsnest end in pora :) If you can keep birdsnest and caps, you shouldn't have trouble with acros.

[jason604]

God damn I'm a retard. Ryan UR right I did manage to mess up my hanna test. Just re read the back side of the instruction n it said to get accurate reading I should test vile right away after mixing reagent!! I normally mix reagent and then get side track by other maintenance for my tank n normally test it 30-1hr later. Thought it's normal Cuz it's fine doing that with salifert to a certain point. After testing hanna phosphate carefully it was at 0.15!!! No wonder my acros were rtning. I increased my vodka and vinegar dosing a bit and making rO water now. I should be able to do a 20g change tomorrow. I'm not gonna increase my rowaphos Cuz from experience doing too many things too fast causes much more harm than good.

I'm glad I dragged my sunset milli colony rigt away last night as today the base is all dead and 2 frags died. Happy to still have some left alive.
Back 2 frags is pretty much dead

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b578/kosin604/02D27503-FCFF-4397-B359-5B223E68F08C_zps0d4hhepe.jpg (http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/kosin604/media/02D27503-FCFF-4397-B359-5B223E68F08C_zps0d4hhepe.jpg.html)


Is it ok to leave large rtn sps in my tank as it is now pretty much just live rock isn't it? Or should I take it out and bleach first before I can re-add? I think my phosphate skyrocketed because 2 of my Hawaiian feather dusters died and 1 was dead beneath the sand bed and rotted. And also adding 5 new smaller fishes did not help. My 15g water change on sat didn't do much I guess to lower it I guess.

[Madreefer]

Sorry to hear of your troubles.
Everyone has pretty much covered all the bases, and I never seen any flatworms in any pic.
After you explained everything with your recent setup it appears to me that your tank is just too new for corals. Don't take offence but you really need patience in this hobby and by the posts you have put up you might be lacking that:biggrin:
Not putting your phosphate and carbon reactors on line wouldn't have caused this either.
On another post you mentioned vinegar dosing? Still doing that? You by chance didn't over dose did you? There's also guys that don't use GFO or Rowa when dosing.
Good luck and hope you get this stuff figured out. And maybe put off getting any SPS for a while.

[Aquattro]

After testing hanna phosphate carefully it was at 0.15!!! No wonder my acros were rtning.

My PO4 has been way higher than that most of this year. Won't cause RTN, sorry.

[straightrazorguy]

My PO4 has been way higher than that most of this year. Won't cause RTN, sorry.

+1. I had an episode of 0.17 PO4 recently too and no RTN. Algae galore, but no RTN. There must be something else. Alkalinity swing?...

[reefwars]

God damn I'm a retard. Ryan UR right I did manage to mess up my hanna test. Just re read the back side of the instruction n it said to get accurate reading I should test vile right away after mixing reagent!! I normally mix reagent and then get side track by other maintenance for my tank n normally test it 30-1hr later. Thought it's normal Cuz it's fine doing that with salifert to a certain point. After testing hanna phosphate carefully it was at 0.15!!! No wonder my acros were rtning. I increased my vodka and vinegar dosing a bit and making rO water now. I should be able to do a 20g change tomorrow. I'm not gonna increase my rowaphos Cuz from experience doing too many things too fast causes much more harm than good.

I'm glad I dragged my sunset milli colony rigt away last night as today the base is all dead and 2 frags died. Happy to still have some left alive.
Back 2 frags is pretty much dead

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b578/kosin604/02D27503-FCFF-4397-B359-5B223E68F08C_zps0d4hhepe.jpg (http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/kosin604/media/02D27503-FCFF-4397-B359-5B223E68F08C_zps0d4hhepe.jpg.html)


Is it ok to leave large rtn sps in my tank as it is now pretty much just live rock isn't it? Or should I take it out and bleach first before I can re-add? I think my phosphate skyrocketed because 2 of my Hawaiian feather dusters died and 1 was dead beneath the sand bed and rotted. And also adding 5 new smaller fishes did not help. My 15g water change on sat didn't do much I guess to lower it I guess.


you shouldn't increase carbon dosing just to lower high po4 levels , you'll drive nitrogen levels to low( this cant be tested fwiw) ) before po4 drops anything drastically..... remember carbon dosing is aimed to keep nitrogen levels low the bonus is it removes a small amount of p04(take it as a bonus not a plan of attack) you wont be able to target the carbon dosing to attack po4 without attacking nitrates in larger numbers...this will result in its own issues

if you want to remove or lower phosphates id consider something a bit more manageable/controllable:)

[gobytron]

I would seriously just try running a basic saltwater reef for a while...

Vodka dosing and other methods of maintaining your tank are often just not necessary.

You might find that taking a more simplified approach (like just doing regular, biweekly 10-20% water changes) gives you a better sense of how things are supposed to work.

Once you are comfortable and identify a need, go ahead and try some of the different methodologies out there.

Just my 2 cents.

[reefwars]

honestly i would also go back to the basics, seems you were having issues with the other tank as well so maybe look at the methods applied and start on a simple plan;)

[jason604]

awe man so take away carbon dosing? that was advised to me when i was having huge algae problems in my old tank and it worked. I dont use that much either. I used Brad's advice of 4-1 ratio of vodka to vineger. I dose very little. Just 1.2ml total split into 4 times a day. And for rowa i use only about 2 teaspoons or so.

[reefwars]

awe man so take away carbon dosing? that was advised to me when i was having huge algae problems in my old tank and it worked. I dont use that much either. I used Brad's advice of 4-1 ratio of vodka to vineger. I dose very little. Just 1.2ml total split into 4 times a day. And for rowa i use only about 2 teaspoons or so.

you can if you like and i prob would ,its not that it doesn't work but i think at this point your over your skill level lol going back to the basics will help pinpoint what is or isnt working for you and you can expand from there.......i mean something is obviously a miss these were the same issues you had previously correct?:)


k.i.s.s


then go from there afterwards:)

[Myka]

The fact that you filled your tank full of dry rock and then tried to put the SPS in there is why you're losing them. I've never found tank swaps go well with dry rock, even if you spend weeks prepping it. There is no quick, fast replacement for live rock. Add high phosphate to the equation and you have disaster. Do you have any of your old live rock left? A holding tank? Someone to babysit the SPS?

FWIW, I would also go back to the basics. Put some GFO in there, but don't be too aggressive lowering phosphate either or you might kill your LPS.

And for rowa i use only about 2 teaspoons or so.

1 tablespoon per 50 gallons is a pretty safe dose.

[jason604]

I think I'm just gonna leave everything as is and just do a bunch of 20% water changes back to back if I can. I normally do 20% water changes every week anyways. Yes Myka I kept all my old live rock and sand in a bin in my basement with heater. I'm trying to sell it with my old setup as a package

[whatcaneyedo]

An immature system and less than optimal water chemistry. Change those characteristics and then see what happens.

[ScubaSteve]

Ya, to reiterate what everyone else is saying: Stop. Stop carbon dosing. Stop all/calc dosing.

Just do water changes.

I was helping someone recently who was having similar problems and instantly saw the problem. Pulled all dosing offline and within a week all the SPS were fine. A couple weeks out and they looked great. All tests showed the water beforehand looking fine but I'm 99% sure it was alk swings that were causing it.

Super low nutrients combined with alk swings from dosing is the perfect RTN recipe. If your tank is relatively new, you really shouldn't need to be dosing anything! There's no need to dose alk/calc if things aren't happy (because they ain't growing!) and nutrient levels should be controllable with only water changes and controlled feeding habits (for the first few months at least).

[Myka]

I think I'm just gonna leave everything as is and just do a bunch of 20% water changes back to back if I can. I normally do 20% water changes every week anyways. Yes Myka I kept all my old live rock and sand in a bin in my basement with heater. I'm trying to sell it with my old setup as a package

Why didn't you use any of your old rock? Is there algae all over it or pests? If not, I bet your tank would do a lot better with it in the system. As long as there are no pests and it is not cycling (no ammonia), then put it in the sump. If it won't fit in the sump, then put it in the tank even if you're just tucking it in somewhere temporarily. Between that, a few water changes, and stopping dosing I think you'll be back on track.

[jason604]

Ok I will stop carbon dosing immediately when I get Hom. I was told it was to help me raise my bacterial count faster. As I was dosing it from day 1 while tank was cycling. My old rock was removed because they were too big and filled with algae n not too pouris. I actually had way more death with algae than anything else in my old system as it smothered everything to death. Sps LPS and softies. I would like to thank everyone for ur help and input, I appreciate it very much. So for my game plan I'm gonna stop carbon dosing and Mybe slightly increase my rowaphos a bit over time. And of course STOP BUYING SPS lol. Well not gonna quit sps altogether but I will stop getting more for atleast 4-6months as my tank matures. I can't rly stop all dosing as my lvl does drop pretty fast as I do have a lot of corals now but I do notice my cal is always a steady 420 n doesn't change. Mybe I can reduce my cal dosing a bit over time to see if it changes or not

[Myka]

I see no reason to discontinue calcium and alkalinity dosing to maintain levels. Just make sure calcium and alkalinity aren't increasing while the corals are stressed. I would work on getting the magnesium up too. Just quit the carbon dosing.

[jason604]

Ok carbon dosing has been stopped. My Alk is somehow dropping so something must be growing. Cal stayed the same n mag is now increased to 1140. I don't see any sps getting worse. LPS is more puffy.

[Aquattro]

alk will reduce based on acids in the system. The tank produces various acids as part of being and alk is consumed while buffering pH. If Ca is staying constant, nothing is growing (worth worrying about)

[Wretch]

alk will reduce based on acids in the system. The tank produces various acids as part of being and alk is consumed while buffering pH. If Ca is staying constant, nothing is growing (worth worrying about)

Just going to jump onto Jason's thread here.

So if your calcium is going down but alk and mag are holding steady/very slow decline is that normal?

[reefwars]

Just going to jump onto Jason's thread here.

So if your calcium is going down but alk and mag are holding steady/very slow decline is that normal?

over what time span are you testing the calcium to see its drop? how much of a drop compared to alk?

[Wretch]

over what time span are you testing the calcium to see its drop? how much of a drop compared to alk?

Well my calcium isn't dropping holding steady at 450 but its being dosed a tiny bit, 12ml a day. I was dosing my alk the same but it was going up slowly every day. So I turned the alk off for now. I check my magnesium(1350) once a week after my water change. Add if needed. Have been checking calcium and alk every day since adding doser.

[reefwars]

Well my calcium isn't dropping holding steady at 450 but its being dosed a tiny bit, 12ml a day. I was dosing my alk the same but it was going up slowly every day. So I turned the alk off for now. I check my magnesium(1350) once a week after my water change. Add if needed. Have been checking calcium and alk every day since adding doser.

testing calcium drops daily is pretty much impossible to do on hobby test kits the margin of error is to high for such a low drop , test it weekly and find out what the weekly drop is , basically if your calcium is holding steady at only 12ml but alk is rising a bit then both need to be a lower dose , try 8mls and see what happens. eventually calcium will find a happy medium with alk.


tinkering for a bit with both is ok at first but if your using an equal measurement dosing product like 2 or 3 part then youll eventually need to set both the same.


as they say dose based on alk numkbers not calcium numbers. so test alk daily for a while and calcium once or twice a week and find what both needs are:)

[reefwars]

fwiw coraline is a huge consumer of cal and alk that is often overlooked , alot of reefers think they are getting no growth yet their calcium and alk is being depleted because well......it is , coraline uses as much or in some cases more than hard corals do ;)

after a while you'll find that alk consumption doesnt happen in the evening ( or at least very little ) as much as during daylight as daylight hours ph is higher and corals and other animals are photosynthesizing:)

[Wretch]

testing calcium drops daily is pretty much impossible to do on hobby test kits the margin of error is to high for such a low drop , test it weekly and find out what the weekly drop is , basically if your calcium is holding steady at only 12ml but alk is rising a bit then both need to be a lower dose , try 8mls and see what happens. eventually calcium will find a happy medium with alk.


tinkering for a bit with both is ok at first but if your using an equal measurement dosing product like 2 or 3 part then youll eventually need to set both the same.


as they say dose based on alk numkbers not calcium numbers. so test alk daily for a while and calcium once or twice a week and find what both needs are:)

Thanks. I am letting the alk return to normal levels as it was going up with dosing then did a water change and that raised it even higher.

[reefwars]

Thanks. I am letting the alk return to normal levels as it was going up with dosing then did a water change and that raised it even higher.

yeah best to hold off water changes while you figure out your dosing levels , if you take weeks i mean yes keep your maintanance going but don't do random changes while your trying to set your doser:)

[Wretch]

yeah best to hold off water changes while you figure out your dosing levels , if you take weeks i mean yes keep your maintanance going but don't do random changes while your trying to set your doser:)

OK then if I have my dosing locked in an my numbers are calcium 450 alk 8 and mag 1350 won't my water changes with alk somewhere around 10 constantly have me too high? or am I missing something?

[reefwars]

OK then if I have my dosing locked in an my numbers are calcium 450 alk 8 and mag 1350 won't my water changes with alk somewhere around 10 constantly have me too high? or am I missing something?

right now while consumption is low yes it will , how much depends on your water volume and the size of the water change. later this may be a bonus or a bigger pita depending on the target goal;)

[asylumdown]

FWIW, I've recently gone through hell with alk and calcium in my tank and I had issues very similar to what you were describing several times over the year that I wasn't adding my alk and calcium supplements in a balanced way. I've only ever seen what you're seeing with acropora when there's an issue with alkalinity - either it's not stable enough, or you're not adding it in the right ratio compared to calcium.

And as Myka said, you're tank is essentially brand new. New tank syndrome is the 1 in a 1-2 punch for Acropora if everything else isn't perfect.

My recommendation -
a) Look up one of the balanced two part recipes, either Randy's two part which uses relatively cheap bulk chems, or one of the more expensive 'brand name' versions like Tropic Marin, b-ionic, etc.

b) Mix your solutions to recommended concentrations.

c) Forget what your calcium test is telling you - DO NOT deviate from dosing them in equal quantities. If your alk is rising but your calcium seems like it's stable, reduce the rate you're dosing both alk and calcium equally. There's heaps of articles online that I wish I hadn't forgot I read about this years ago, it would have saved me so much heartache. Coral, coraline, and pretty much everything that consumes calcium and bicarbonate/carbonate consumes those ions in a ratio of 1:1. This is the only ratio you should add them to your tank. Deviating from a 1:1 ratio in your dosing routine (even if it seems like your levels are "fine"), especially when your corals are already stressed out from a move and a new tank, is a recipe for disaster.
See: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/11/chemistry
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-04/rhf/feature/
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/

Yes over time organic acids will cause a drift in Alkalinity relative to calcium when dosing at 1:1 ratios, but according to Randy Holmes Farley, this is something you need to worry about maybe once or twice a year and can easily correct with a one time manual bump-up. Your "normal" dosing rate of the big two should be as close to 1:1 as possible.

d) start testing for ammonia several times a day if you can. Your tank is effectively brand new. "new tank syndrome" is likely the product of unstable bacterial populations. I'm personally of the opinion that carbon dosing in the early stages of a tank's cycle can prolong 'new tank syndrome' as it promotes the growth of heterotrophic bacteria - not the chemoautotrophic bacteria that only consume ammonia and nitrite (which get all their carbon from the atmosphere). Heterotrophs can facultatively use ammonia, and they reproduce several orders of magnitude faster than autotrophs, so they may compete for both space and resources. Their populations are way less stable and if you just stopped carbon dosing they're going to crash, so your tank's ammonia processing capacity might not be as 'ship-shape' as you think at this stage in the game. Even small fluctuations could be deadly for acros.

[jason604]

Thx aslyum that was very informational. So I should not just stop carbon dosing instantly but to slowly decrease to 0? As for alk n ca dosing my ratio is 1:1.

[jason604]

So things r looking better. After large water changes and a tweak in dosing I have no more damage/death to anymore sps. My alk is currently been steady at 8 for over a week now and cal at 420 since forever. After switching mag buffer from the terrible seachem to schlobster mag sulphate and chloride, I was able to bump my mag to 1250 super easy. I will slowly bump it up to 1350-1400 over the course of the week. Phosphates is now lowered to 0.04. Carbon dosing has been stopped. My sunset milli that I tried saving by fragging all ended up dying except a 1/2" frag and my red planet that rtn in the center but I did not frag seems to have totally stopped rtning looks healthy. This is very strange as from my previous experience with rtn 90% of what I frag survives and 100% of what I don't frag dies. So totally opposite of what normally happens. I bought a few more sps frags and they all look super healthy with no color loss or rtn etc... My previous sps are coloring up. Things r actually turning for the good for the first time in awhile for me.

[gobytron]

Nice work.

A load off your mind to be sure.

[crimper]

It's a very painful and expensive lesson to learn... bringing new SPS frags in a relatively new and unstable system. I hope everything works well for you now.

[Myka]

Good news.

[jason604]

I really appreciate the help from every1. Small mistakes in this hobby can be very expensive if not corrected right away. My tank is finally fully stocked now and I will be posting pics n updates on my journey. Stay tuned =)