Cyano :(

[martinmcnally]

Alas my new tank (2 years approx now I think) is suffering the same problems my old one did and it seems no matter what I do I am always fighting with cyano.

My lights are LED (AI Vega).
Flow is via 2 MP40s running at max plus 2 return pumps.
Nitrate: 0ppm
Phosphate: 0ppm
I feed only once per day currently New Era flakes. I only feed what is consumed and have a lot of critters that take care of any drop that hits the bottom.

Skimmer is Super Reef Octopus Cone with capacity rated almost double the tank size.

Photo period is noon to 10pm then moonlights on moon-cycle.
Tested the RODI, TDS its coming out 0ppm although for 2 weeks or so there it could have been maybe 2ppm before I replaced the DI resin.

I even syphon the stuff out when I do water changes.

What else can I do? I am tempted to do a 3 days lights out and water change at the end but also worried about loosing a bunch of SPS in the process.

I added some Purigen about 2 weeks ago and I think its helping but hard to tell.

http://applications.ccusa.com/martin/img_0318.jpg
http://applications.ccusa.com/martin/img_0319.jpg

Its done a lot of damage to my German Blue Digi
http://applications.ccusa.com/martin/img_0320.jpg

On another note I started running Carbon 24/7 (BRS Rox) about a year ago and I have had more coral disease this year than ever before. :/

[Aquattro]

why not just hit it with chemiclean?

[martinmcnally]

why not just hit it with chemiclean?

Its getting to the point where I might have to. I have been considering that a last resort after watching some videos on youtube and doing some reading.

[Aquattro]

Its getting to the point where I might have to. I have been considering that a last resort after watching some videos on youtube and doing some reading.

It's always my first resort. It's rare that I get cyano, maybe 3 times, but always hit it with CC and I'm done with it in a couple days. Like you, all the usual suspects are always in order, so really nothing I can change. And if you leave it long enough, it starts smothering corals. So, first sign, I dose.

[martinmcnally]

Hmm I may have to pick some up then.

2 More pics.

http://applications.ccusa.com/Martin/IMG_0323.jpg

My RBTA is gonna take over and climb out of the tank soon haha:

http://applications.ccusa.com/Martin/IMG_0321.jpg

[Aquattro]

Just be aware it will put your skimmer in over drive :) I turn my cup sideways during treatment to avoid the mess!

[martinmcnally]

Just be aware it will put your skimmer in over drive :) I turn my cup sideways during treatment to avoid the mess!

Do you turn skimmer and carbon off for 24 hours?

[kien]

+1 in the Chemiclean as well! Also my first resort LOL.

[Aquattro]

Do you turn skimmer and carbon off for 24 hours?

skimmer stays on, but tilt the cup so it overflows without making a mess. No carbon until you want it gone. I usually leave it 2 or 3 days, then a large water change and carbon. Skimmer takes some tweaking until it's fully removed.

[intarsiabox]

Do you turn skimmer and carbon off for 24 hours?

I take out my carbon but just lower the bubble level in the skimmer chamber and/or raise my skimmer up in the water column if required until it stops overflowing. The product decreases oxygen levels so continuing to run the skimmer is recommended.

[martinmcnally]

Do you guys run the air stone like it recommends or just rely on the skimmer?

[Aquattro]

Just skimmer. If you have a heavy fish load with large fish that might be affected, an air stone can't hurt.

[asylumdown]

I struggled with Cyano almost constantly until I stopped using "regular" gfo. Are you using GFO?

But +1 to chemiclean. The stuff works wonders.

[martinmcnally]

I struggled with Cyano almost constantly until I stopped using "regular" gfo. Are you using GFO?

But +1 to chemiclean. The stuff works wonders.

Yea running BRS Bulk GFO 24/7.

I haven't heard that before.

[asylumdown]

It's probably not a well accepted theory, but cyano bacteria has a disproportionately high demand for iron, and they've evolved family specific pathways to harvest it from the environment called siderophores that might be able to pick up the form of iron found in GFO. Research around shipwrecks and black reefs have recently shown a strong correlation between the grounding/sinking of iron based ships, and the rapid decline of surrounding reefs as simple algaes like cyano over-take corals. A recent paper linked it directly to the iron rusting out the hull.

There are also half cocked plans to dump enormous amounts of iron in the open ocean to encourage phytoplankton as a form of carbon sequestration. A great deal of the phytoplankton in the ocean is free living Cyanobacteria. Different genera than the kind on your sand bed, but the kinds we deal with have many of the same needs and capabilities.

Anyway it's clearly more complex, and there's more to cyano outbreaks than just iron, but I have anecdotally experienced drastic changes in its behavior just by starting or stopping the use of GFO. I use PO4x4 now, which isn't granulated, it's polymer encapsulated. Produces zero dust and theoretically releases less iron in to the water column. It's expensive as all get out, but I haven't had any issues with cyano since.

[martinmcnally]

So I have been running the red slim remover for 48 hours now but there is still quite a bit left. Wondering if I should remove it now and try again next week or keep it going for a 3rd day?

It is working but slowly.

[Aquattro]

I'd leave it. I usually run it 3 or 4 days, then do my weekend water change

[Myka]

Just follow the instructions on the box. You may need to re-dose again next week or so.

Fwiw, your tank looks quite mature, how old is it? Your rocks also don't allow real good flow around them. I think it's time for a revamp. Cyanobacteria is VERY good at utilizing nutrients and can even bind nitrogen, so even a very small amount of nutrients in the system is enough for cyano to flourish. I have a feeling there is a fair bit of nutrients in your tank, but the cyano is utilizing it so it's not in the water for you to test.

[Myka]

Haha, good ole reefing advice - conflicting. ;)

[martinmcnally]

Your right l should get a new bigger tank haha.

It's about 2 years old the rock is much older. If I increase the flow anymore it whips up the sand

[gobytron]

It's probably not a well accepted theory, but cyano bacteria has a disproportionately high demand for iron, and they've evolved family specific pathways to harvest it from the environment called siderophores that might be able to pick up the form of iron found in GFO. Research around shipwrecks and black reefs have recently shown a strong correlation between the grounding/sinking of iron based ships, and the rapid decline of surrounding reefs as simple algaes like cyano over-take corals. A recent paper linked it directly to the iron rusting out the hull.

There are also half cocked plans to dump enormous amounts of iron in the open ocean to encourage phytoplankton as a form of carbon sequestration. A great deal of the phytoplankton in the ocean is free living Cyanobacteria. Different genera than the kind on your sand bed, but the kinds we deal with have many of the same needs and capabilities.

Anyway it's clearly more complex, and there's more to cyano outbreaks than just iron, but I have anecdotally experienced drastic changes in its behavior just by starting or stopping the use of GFO. I use PO4x4 now, which isn't granulated, it's polymer encapsulated. Produces zero dust and theoretically releases less iron in to the water column. It's expensive as all get out, but I haven't had any issues with cyano since.

This is the kind of post that gets me off the classifieds.

Thanks for sharing this.

In my last 95 gallon, I had immense issues with HA, which I dealt with in many ways...once it was significantly reduced, I started running BRS GFO...

The BAM cyano like crazy...almost to the point that it was as bad as my HA was.

Even Chemi clean didn't work.

So at least to me, that theory holds some weight.

[martinmcnally]

I started using GFO after having non stop phosphate problems with a previous tank. I put it down to the old rock. It came from an older fish only tank with very poor lighting. It seems the phosphate was leaching out of the rock for years. Water changes would not reduce it. The only way I was ever able to get it under control was with the GFO. I am guessing if I reduced it now I would not have as much of a problem.

Are there other viable alternatives? I am building an algae scrubber at the moment actually. That might enable me to get rid of the GFO from what I hear from other peoples experience.

[gobytron]

asylumdown mentions PO4x4

[Myka]

Your right l should get a new bigger tank haha.

It's about 2 years old the rock is much older. If I increase the flow anymore it whips up the sand

Haha good plan!! I don't mean increase the flow, I mean adjust the rockwork so that the flow can get around the rock better. It looks like it has a lot of areas for it to settle. Your tank looks older than 2 years. I guess you're good at growing corals. :D

[Northvan]

We feel your pain. We've been fighting it for a year. We've done chemiclean (temporey improvement, but comes back), 3 days lights out with tank wrapped (no improvement at all), just finished a bottle of cyano clean with coral snow (1 month, $120, actually seems to have gotten worse).
We haven't yet tried erythromycin (antibacterial), not sure how to dose it.
Tank is almost no fun anymore.
Cyano sucketh .

[martinmcnally]

My cyano is completely gone now however it wasnt straightforward with the chemiclean.

I did the first clean as per the manual, basically everything off with an airstone running for 2 days. However after the 2 days I wasn't satisfied so I went another day. Removing the chemiclean seemed easy, 1 water change plus carbon and the skimmer was running again within a few hours.

However the cyano wasn't gone just reduced. I waited a week or 2 and did another 3 day treatment. This time was vastly different. The cyano was completely gone after 3 days. However removing it from the water was much more difficult. It took 3 water changes, new carbon and allowing the skimmer to overflow for around 10 days before it returned to normal and started skimming again.

Much harder on the second run than I thought but its gone and the chemiclean appeared to have no affect on coral or fish.