OH GREAT... NOW WHAT

[Skimmin]

So I bought a Chevron Tang about two months ago. I put him through QT and now after being in my display tank for almost a month has been fine. Now tonight? ich... To make matters worse I picked up two new fish to put into quarantine toninght.... Now I guess I have to get all the fish out of my tank... 300 GAL TANK...... or I guess I'm gonna get rid of my corals, inverts and anemone etc.... and hypo the tank... Any other ideas for what to do would be great... Everything else in the tank seems healthy with no spots but I know if its in the water with fish its always gonna be there right?... So frustrated. This is the first tank I've ever had that I actually QT my fish. This is also the first tank I've ever had ich show up... I'm also running a uv light...

[globaldesigns]

You will get mixed reviews. But I am of the side that think ICH is always there and not to fret about it. Providing a healthy, stable environment will allow fish to resist and live without harm from the parasite. Just my 2 cents... Leave it all alone, stressing them by Qt, capturing and/or treating may do more harm.

[George]

What is your quarantine protocol? I have seen all kinds of of so called "quarantine" methods. Some are very effective against ich, some are not.
If you really want to get rid of marine ich in your tank, get all fish out into a quarantine tank and follow a proven protocol against marine ich. The protocols I recommend are: tank transfer, copper and chloroquine phosphate. Some may suggest hypo-salinity also but I don't like it personally.
Leave your tank fallow (not hypo) for 72 days to get rid of marine ich.
That would be my course of action if it was my tank.
Good luck!

[eli@fijireefrock.com]

You will get mixed reviews. But I am of the side that think ICH is always there and not to fret about it. Providing a healthy, stable environment will allow fish to resist and live without harm from the parasite. Just my 2 cents... Leave it all alone, stressing them by Qt, capturing and/or treating may do more harm.

:thumb:I agree with above statement.Keep your system healthy don't add any more fish as there is always some stress on new fish or even on older fish when new fish is introduced.

[Aquattro]

I agree with both views :) Leaving it is easier, and may be fine. The hard way is, well, harder :)

[Skimmin]

Well because the one option is so easy and the other is so difficult I'm sure you can imagine what route I will try first. Thanks for the input

[Myka]

A 300 gallon tank? Which brand/model UV sterilizer do you have? How much flow through it? How is it plumbed in? How old is the bulb? I'm not saying it is the problem, but it's curious the Tang has Ich a month after being added - that's a long time after. How long was he in quarantine? What treatment/protocols did he receive or was it just observation? I'm not sure if the Tang carried Ich all along or if he got it from the tank.

I agree with both views :) Leaving it is easier, and may be fine. The hard way is, well, harder :)

Agreed.

If the other fish are in good health and unaffected, I would take a hard look at the UV sterilizer, plump up the feeding, add some garlic and/or an "Ich food".

I make a homemade mash. One of the handy things about this is that I can thaw it, mash some medications into it, and re-freeze it. Many medications are MUCH more useful if they can be ingested. I've fed these into my reef before, and haven't had any trouble - YMMV.

[Aquattro]

Just a comment about meds in food, in a reef. I read a lot of people panicking over (usually CP laced) food killing corals.
I just treated my QT with CP that contained rock with zoas and shrooms. 3 days later I did a 50% water change and added carbon, so let's say 4ish days of meds in the tank. Now that it's cleared from the water, all the zoas and stuff have bounced back and are doing fine. Based on that, I wouldn't worry about adding medicated food to my reef. I would run carbon just in case, but overall, it isn't going to nuke your tank. So try that, see if it helps. Fish don't like it as much, but some eat it fine.

[Piscez]

You will get mixed reviews. But I am of the side that think ICH is always there and not to fret about it. Providing a healthy, stable environment will allow fish to resist and live without harm from the parasite. Just my 2 cents... Leave it all alone, stressing them by Qt, capturing and/or treating may do more harm.

Agreed, moving fish around etc is stress enough, if your other fish are healthy well fed etc and sounds like your Chevron is healthy I'd wait and watch for a few days a least, I used to have a hippo in my 210gal and it seemed every time I added a new fish the hippo would get ich, eventually it cleared up and the other fish never got it. The easy route......... if your other fish start showing signs then you may want to consider meds, quarantine etc.. Good luck, hope all is well let us know how things make out.

[Skimmin]

So oddest thing. Today spots are gone. I would say he had about 30 spots yesterday. Today. None? I'm not sure if maybe the tang and the cleaner shrimp hooked up last night or what but the spots are gone. Nobody else is showing any signs of issues so I'm gonna keep an eye on things and go from there. Everybody eats great and looks really healthy. Talk about ups and downs in a 24hr period...

[reefwars]

So oddest thing. Today spots are gone. I would say he had about 30 spots yesterday. Today. None? I'm not sure if maybe the tang and the cleaner shrimp hooked up last night or what but the spots are gone. Nobody else is showing any signs of issues so I'm gonna keep an eye on things and go from there. Everybody eats great and looks really healthy. Talk about ups and downs in a 24hr period...

thats how the parasite works , being visible is only one stage of what the parasite does.

fwiw if its just a few spots then im with the group and keep him healthy and eating for now unless it becomes severe.

there does come a time though when a fish is gone to far , regardless of the foods or the amounts they wont come back (food is not a cure, the hobby as whole kiows this for a fact) , this i can guarantee . you'll know when this happens and fish usually don't last but a few days at most in this condition.

[intarsiabox]

So oddest thing. Today spots are gone. I would say he had about 30 spots yesterday. Today. None? I'm not sure if maybe the tang and the cleaner shrimp hooked up last night or what but the spots are gone. Nobody else is showing any signs of issues so I'm gonna keep an eye on things and go from there. Everybody eats great and looks really healthy. Talk about ups and downs in a 24hr period...

I've been keeping SW fish for about 10 years and every now and then a new fish will get a few spots and then next day they are gone and don't come back. So you're not alone. I've never lost a fish to ich, not having a top is another story.

[Skimmin]

I picked up some seachem metroplex and focus. Soaked their food in it and everyone ate it. Hope it helps. I start my last two months of school Monday and just don't have the time to tear down my tank. Guess I'll use the medication for now and once I'm out of school if there are any remaining concerns I'll deal with it then. I spoke with a couple people on the forums here that have had excellent success with metroplex and focus so I hope they work for me too.

[Skimmin]

Well starting yesterday the ich started to move through the rest of the fish in the tank... I picked up some plexiglass and managed to get all the fish out with only taking out a 1/4 of my rock and everything went back together pretty good. I set up a 30 gal rubbermaid with the filter and some of the water from my other qt tank that has been running a couple months. I'm going to start with metroplex and melafix in the water tonight. Can anyone recommend a good medication to use in my qt. I would like to use something that will kill ich but also covers me for anything else I should be treating for as a preventitive measure. I'm going to keep fish out of my tank for the next 12-16 weeks to make sure the ich is good and dead.

[asylumdown]

What's likely is that the parasite was already in your system but at sub-clinical levels, kept at bay by the immune systems of fish that have adapted to it. Then you introduce a fish with an innate susceptibility and after a couple of life cycles (a month sounds about right) your tang has shed enough tomonts in to the system that when they start hatching the concentration of infective parasites rose high enough to start overwhelming your otherwise resistant fish. It's like locking a bunch of vaccinated children in a classroom every day with a few who aren't, then exposing them all to measles. Eventually even the vaccinated kids are at risk just from the constant exposure.

If you have the set up, I highly recommend the tank transfer method. Super easy on the fish so long as you control for ammonia, guaranteed effective to eliminate ich from your fish 100% in 12 days, and there's no risk of poisoning them by accident. After that you'll have another 8 weeks to observe them and treat them for whatever else you think is necessary.

[reef-keeper]

SeaChem cupramine works great.

[Trigger Man]

I agree and trust SeaChem Cupramine. It has worked every time I have used it. I now also dose a cycle of PraziPro for all my QT's fish for a few other diseases that seem to be more common with new fish. I start the cupramine on day one, then on day 2 I add Prazi in the day and the second dose of Cupramine at night.

SeaChem cupramine works great.

[Skimmin]

Ok sounds good. I'll go with Cupramine and maybe switch to the prazipro in four weeks when I'm done with the Cupramine. It does say specifically on the Cupramine not to combine it with any other medications and I don't want to add any more stress to the fish then they're already going through.

[reefwars]

Ok sounds good. I'll go with Cupramine and maybe switch to the prazipro in four weeks when I'm done with the Cupramine. It does say specifically on the Cupramine not to combine it with any other medications and I don't want to add any more stress to the fish then they're already going through.

Smart man , don't add prazi to cuprime in particular, it would not be good:)

[George]

Add copper slowly over 3-4 days period. Watch for reaction of fish from copper. Some fish don't tolerate copper that well. Signs of bad reaction are not eating, heavy breathing etc.
Copper is not fun to play with since it's a poison.
Good luck!

[silverjfk]

Sorry to hear about your tang. Where did you purchase it from?

I bought a chevron around the same time and about 4 weeks ago it developed spots. I tried my best to use garlic guard and feed it so not to cause stress by moving it. Anyway, after a week or so and no signs of getting better I started evaluating options. Basically was ready to do something when it passed. Had it in a reef tank with a pair of Wyoming whites and a lawnmower blenny. While the tang had ich, the clowns and blenny showed no signs of ich. After the tang passed the clowns continued to be fine for half a week and then started to show signs. As soon as I noticed it on my clowns I set up a quarantine. To set up the quarantine I filled a 13 gallon tank with water from my main tank and added a heater, air stone, and small powerhead. I did the Calgary LFS loop and got every piece of advice under the sun. I ended up purchasing 4 things to try:


New Life Spectrum Ick Guard Pellets: Tried to feed the pellets to my clowns in my reef tank. I only managed to get a single pellet in the female and after the first one they would no longer eat them. I read a lot people say the fish find them bitter. Anyway, tried soaking them in garlic guard, still nothing. They're supposed to contain chloroquine which is another ich method supposedly.

After trying such and failing, I purchased Cupramine, Polyplab Medic, and New Life Spectrum Ick Guard Powder:


Cupramine: I basically purchased cupramine out of frustration because I heard so many miracle cures in the day and every other person disproving them. Finally, I decided I needed to do what people say works. When I added the cupramine I noticed a prominent change in my clowns. They became sluggish. I added it very slowly and I would stress if you choose to do so, add it as slow as possible. They took a little while to get used to it but after a bit started swimming again. I went to sleep extremely worried about them. Anyway, next day, they were still alive and swimming around, cut to ~8 hours later and they were no longer looking so hot. The boy was breathing heavy and laying in their clay pot. The female was much better than the boy, was swimming around, and was obsessed with the air stone. As I continued to watch them throughout the night it continued to get worse. The boy clown was breathing heavy and trying to dart to the top of the tank. He would come up and rest on the powerhead I had in the tank. In one final dart he missed the powerhead and floated to the bottom. At this point I put my hand in the tank to help him and he took his lat couple breaths sitting in my hand near the top of the tank. After such, I realized the girl clown was staying at the top of the tank as well so I decided enough was enough and did a 3 a.m. 50% water change. I know it isnt the best idea, i know it can be stressful but after seeing my boy clown suffer I had to do something. I completed the water change and she continued to swim around. Went to sleep and she was dead in the morning. In terms of cupramine, I wouldn't do it again. I think the copper treatment is too stressful. I would go with hyposalinity if I could do it again.


Polyplab Medic: I heard about polyplab medic from one of the LFS's at the beginning of my ich advice day. The LFS assured me he uses it all the time, however the small 30 mL $45 bottle tells me that he most likely doesnt use it for his 10+ tanks regularly. Anyway, whether I was fooled or not, I bought it because it is reef safe and decided to make sure atleast my blenny was fine. I knew if my blenny got ich I would be screwed because he wont eat anything except for tank algae, so I wouldn't be able to quarantine him. Anyway, used it for 10 days as instructed, before 10 a.m. and after 10 p.m. After the 10 days, i noticed nothing different with my tank which is a good thing. Also my blenny seems to be spot free, though who knows if he was going to get it anyway. I would suggest this at the very least because it didn't negatively impact my tank and at least its a possibility it works. In my tank I had scolys, acans, zoas, plates, duncans, anemone's, snails, crabs, mysis, and cleaner shrimp. All were unaffected. In terms of using it, make sure to try and do a water change or two. My buddy Zoaelite is versed in chemistry and filled me in that the peroxide salts basically attack the cell membrane of the ich. To do so however, its good to have a lower DOC (Dissolved organic content) so that it will actually be able to target the parasites and not other things. Im not the best at explaining, if you wish to know more I can ask him again. Anyway, work or not, its something.


New Life Spectrum Ick Guard Powder: I had to order online from BC so it took 3 or so days to get to me. By this time my fish were all dead. If you're any bit interested, I know denny at Concept Aquariums is now stocking at least one bottle after I spoke to him about it. I was interested to try it out as it has chloroquine, as with the pellets. I was kind of sad I didn't get to try this instead of the copper. I heard it may be less stressful. Anyway, its not reef safe so it requires quarantine, however it may be a viable option if anyones willing to try it. I was unable to find much information on people trying it. From what I could find, results were positive. Its a 21 day process.


Anyway, I hope for the best with your tang and other fish. I know my experience was hell. I hope you don't have to go through the same. Also, as mentioned earlier in the comments. If at all available and it starts to look even a bit better, try not to do anything. Stress is a big issue. Looking back I probably would've rather left my clowns in my tank.

[Trigger Man]

I had thought the same thing, but was talking to a LFS that seems to have great success with his newly received fish, and he has been following that regimen with no problems. I also searched on other large forums and found good success using both.
I tried it on my current new 4 fish in QT - blue tang, desjardini tang, flame angel and pakistani butterfly- and they all did fine. The biggest worry being that prazi can make fish less likely to feed. However I added S.E.L.C.O to the frozen food and pellets and the fish have continued to feed and fatten up. This is now week 4 on QT for the fish. Of note all of these fish are 3-3.75 inches so I can not say if smaller fish would have more problems.



Smart man , don't add prazi to cuprime in particular, it would not be good:)

[reef-keeper]

You should take three to four days to add the recommended dose of cupramine. Also buy a copper test to verify the correct dose. Testing every day at the same time of day.

[Skimmin]

Well thanks for the heads up. I believe if the fishes immune system is severly comprimised it is possible that they are more likely to succumb to the treatment. Ive been told copper is essentially the chemotherapy of fish medication. It kills the bad stuff but also takes its toll on the good stuff too. Essentially suppressing the immune system further and if the fish are too weak to begin with, may cause fatality. I hope everyone pulls through this. This previous Saturday when I removed my fish from the tank I added metroplex and melafix to my 30gal quarantine rubbermaid. Because Im away from home my girlfriend is going to dose the quarantine tub for me again tonight with metroplex and melafix. Hopefully that will get the removal and healing process going. If they are not too stressed and still alive by Saturday I am going to do a substantial water change and add the Cupramine to the water change water only very slowly and in low levels to hopefully keep the stress down. I'm going to go slow because my display tank isnt going to see fish for at least another 12 to 16 weeks just to be on the safe side. That gives me a lot of time to treat everyone. Unfortunately this is all I can do for now.