Plumbing shopping list?

[rishu_pepper]

So my tank should be here in a few weeks, need to plan what I still have to get for plumbing. This part is very daunting to me as I have never plumbed a tank before.

Denny will already have installed the standpipes for herbie, 1.5", and the return is 1". The holes width in the tank are 2.25" (standpipes) and 1.75" (return), respectively.

PVC or vinyl? Leaning towards PVC.

What will I be needing? If someone can write me a bit of a shopping list, that would be greatly appreciated. My head is spinning from reading about bulkheads, unions, valves, pipes! :lol:

Or I'll just get Anthony to plumb it all for me :twised::wink:

[reefwars]

Youll need a gate valve for the herbie , as well unions should be under each bulkhead as well. Another must is a union ball valve over the pump or at least a ball valve and union so you can remove the pump if need be in the future.

If you plan to run reactors you may want to build a manifold off your return with a few extra outputs so you can tie in to run reactors , water change etc. without the need for star pumps :)

[Myka]

I only put a union on the return pump. If you put unions under the bulkheads, then if you ever move the tank you have to cut the unions off in order to get it to sit on a flat surface (like a truck bed) because you can't remove the bulkheads with the unions installed below them. If you want to replace the sump then you can just cut the drain lines and put them back using a coupler fitting. Neither of these situations tend to happen very often/if at all.

You don't need a ball valve on the return pump if - you chose a pump that fits the tank, there is only one return line, and you don't use a manifold. They are only $5 though, so if you're concerned, then go for it. If there are two return lines then the ball valves are handy to make the flow through each return even. If you do a manifold then you should put a ball valve on the return too. If the return pump is too big you will need the ball valve to dial back the flow so you don't get microbubbles in your display.

A manifold is a great idea if you have the extra flow from your return pump. If your return pump has barely the flow for the return then it won't power a manifold anyway. Have you picked your return pump yet? What are the dimensions of your tank? Do you have extra flow or not?

Try to use 45 degree elbows instead of 90 degree elbows as they reduce flow a bit less. I also recommend, if it's your first time plumbing or you just aren't that confident, make sure you have at least 2" of pipe between all fittings so that you have room to cut the pipe and re-glue differently if need be. If you glue all the fittings with no visible pipe between them it looks real good, but if you make one boo boo then you throw the hole kit and kaboodle out! Also, I made a 3-valve manifold one time, put it all together and one of the valve leaked in any position other than full open or full closed. I can to cut the manifold out and redo it. Luckily it was just SCH40 ball valves so it was only $15 and some time.

Use lots of glue. I like to use the clear HEAVY DUTY glue. I prefer to sand the ends of the pipe than to use the primer. If you use primer you can't dry fit the connections after you primer them as they will stick. They stick bad enough you can't get them out, but not good enough that they will hold water. That's a crappy lesson to learn. So I sand each end of pipe instead. Put glue on the pipe end, insert into the fitting all the way, give it a 1/4 turn, then use your finger to run around the joint to clean up the excess glue (like running your finger along a silicone joint). The 1/4 turn makes sure the glue is spread all over, but don't turn it a bunch (some people naively recommend this) as you will get air bubble in the glue. Air isn't water proof (lol). When I was a carpenter years ago, a real plumber (haha) taught me this 1/4 turn thing.

[daplatapus]

I only put a union on the return pump. If you put unions under the bulkheads, then if you ever move the tank you have to cut the unions off in order to get it to sit on a flat surface (like a truck bed) because you can't remove the bulkheads with the unions installed below them.

I've had this happen on a friends tank that we moved, unfortunately I didn't realize it until after we broke the bulkhead sliding the tank into the truck bed :(

To get around this I have since only ever put in bulkheads that are threaded so I can undo the union, then just unthread the pipe out of the bulkhead.

[Myka]

I've had this happen on a friends tank that we moved, unfortunately I didn't realize it until after we broke the bulkhead sliding the tank into the truck bed :(

To get around this I have since only ever put in bulkheads that are threaded so I can undo the union, then just unthread the pipe out of the bulkhead.

That's another good option. Threaded fittings have a smaller inside diameter than slip fittings though. This may or may not be a concern for each setup.

You guys are lucky it was the bulkhead that broke and not the bottom pane of glass! I've heard of people breaking their display tank from hitting the bulkheads. I've broke small tanks this way.

[rishu_pepper]

Thanks for all the advice so far, it's starting to make sense to me.

Mindy, I bought a DCT12000, which is handy because it has controllable rate of return. The tank is 165g and the sump 50g, and head is maybe 4'~ vertical? I figure the DCT12000 has plenty and more flow than I'll need, so I can always dial it down.

What is the advantage of running a manifold? How hard/easy is it to install it?

Not exactly a handyman here :redface::lol:

[WarDog]

Brian, if you want to grab a coffee and talk plumbing just let me know! I have a few secrets I can share.

[rishu_pepper]

Brian, if you want to grab a coffee and talk plumbing just let me know! I have a few secrets I can share.

Ooh secrets! Yes I'll definitely give you a ring when the time comes. Maybe I'll get my wife to cook you up some dinner as compensation for help :wink:

[reefwars]

I only put a union on the return pump. If you put unions under the bulkheads, then if you ever move the tank you have to cut the unions off in order to get it to sit on a flat surface (like a truck bed) because you can't remove the bulkheads with the unions installed below them. If you want to replace the sump then you can just cut the drain lines and put them back using a coupler fitting. Neither of these situations tend to happen very often/if at all.

You don't need a ball valve on the return pump if - you chose a pump that fits the tank, there is only one return line, and you don't use a manifold. They are only $5 though, so if you're concerned, then go for it. If there are two return lines then the ball valves are handy to make the flow through each return even. If you do a manifold then you should put a ball valve on the return too. If the return pump is too big you will need the ball valve to dial back the flow so you don't get microbubbles in your display.

A manifold is a great idea if you have the extra flow from your return pump. If your return pump has barely the flow for the return then it won't power a manifold anyway. Have you picked your return pump yet? What are the dimensions of your tank? Do you have extra flow or not?

Try to use 45 degree elbows instead of 90 degree elbows as they reduce flow a bit less. I also recommend, if it's your first time plumbing or you just aren't that confident, make sure you have at least 2" of pipe between all fittings so that you have room to cut the pipe and re-glue differently if need be. If you glue all the fittings with no visible pipe between them it looks real good, but if you make one boo boo then you throw the hole kit and kaboodle out! Also, I made a 3-valve manifold one time, put it all together and one of the valve leaked in any position other than full open or full closed. I can to cut the manifold out and redo it. Luckily it was just SCH40 ball valves so it was only $15 and some time.

Use lots of glue. I like to use the clear HEAVY DUTY glue. I prefer to sand the ends of the pipe than to use the primer. If you use primer you can't dry fit the connections after you primer them as they will stick. They stick bad enough you can't get them out, but not good enough that they will hold water. That's a crappy lesson to learn. So I sand each end of pipe instead. Put glue on the pipe end, insert into the fitting all the way, give it a 1/4 turn, then use your finger to run around the joint to clean up the excess glue (like running your finger along a silicone joint). The 1/4 turn makes sure the glue is spread all over, but don't turn it a bunch (some people naively recommend this) as you will get air bubble in the glue. Air isn't water proof (lol). When I was a carpenter years ago, a real plumber (haha) taught me this 1/4 turn thing.

haha well yes in a world filled with internal overflows i can see dragging a tank across the stand as a bad idea , however we have to think outside our own tanks and realize not all holes come out the bottom of the tank :)


the idea of the unions below the bulkhead isnt to remove the tank (not completely anyways) , if your going to cut then your going to cut right? the idea of the unions under the bulkhead is to replace the sump if you need to without having to cut away the drains ;) a union is $5 at concept......if plumbing budget is under $100 and someone cant afford the $10 for two unions then yes i guess its not affordable but i don't see why someone wouldn't put these in for the sake of a few bucks? like you mentioned leave space always between joints and you'll have the room to cut if you need to:)

as for the ball valve over the pump , last i checked the only way to turn a return pump off is to either unplug it and cut its power( lame isnt it lol?) or use a ball valve , i don't know about you but i personally dont want to be unplugging a pump every time i need it to be turned off for any period of time, be it pulling the plug or using the apex , so for the $3 they are i install them after the pump and right before the bulkheads , that ways i can shut off the flow to the tank while keeping my manifold running(biopellets) or i can shut the pump off temporarily while not having the back syphon that unplugging will certainly bring down and overflow the skimmer.

[rishu_pepper]

https://i.imgflip.com/i3y50.jpg (https://imgflip.com/i/i3y50)

Will adding a check valve on the return line reduce the amount of back siphoning?

[jason604]

Theoretically it should stop all siphoning

[reefwars]

https://i.imgflip.com/i3y50.jpg (https://imgflip.com/i/i3y50)

Will adding a check valve on the return line reduce the amount of back siphoning?

it will temporarily , but theres not enough pressure in a gravity feed to stop it completely so if enough time goes by it will slowly leak , it will stop the skimmer from overflowing though :)

[rishu_pepper]

it will temporarily , but theres not enough pressure in a gravity feed to stop it completely so if enough time goes by it will slowly leak , it will stop the skimmer from overflowing though :)

As long as it does that job, I can always control the power from the Apex. I'd only turn it off during coral feeding anyway.

Would drilling a hole on the return loc-line be another (additional) option to help with controlling back-siphon? I did that in my previous tank but it was above the water line, so the constant water spray was annoying.

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Brian,

Whether you do it or someone else plumbs your tank, remember to dry fit everything so you know for sure everything is going to fit before you glue. I glue everything that is under pressure, but I only silicone those pipes that are under gravity flow. I imagine most people glue everything.

Also, most of the time, leaks will be from the bulkhead so be extra careful there. Hand tighten & only add a 1/4 turn with a wrench. Any more and you risk damaging the glass around the hole.

Mine is an external overflow box so my ball valve for the return is under the overflow for ease of access, as opposed to being right near the pump outlet. Of course, part of the reason is also I don't T-off my return to run any media reactors (I just use Maxijet 1200s for that). I use a controllable flow DC pump as well, so I'd rather run my pump at lower flow and hopefully put less wear and tear on my return pump and just use easily replaceable MJ1200s for the media reactors.

Anthony

[reefwars]

As long as it does that job, I can always control the power from the Apex. I'd only turn it off during coral feeding anyway.

Would drilling a hole on the return loc-line be another (additional) option to help with controlling back-siphon? I did that in my previous tank but it was above the water line, so the constant water spray was annoying.


absolutely , a syphon break is def one way to stop it , placing your lines near the top or using locline to angle them is another option as well. check valves will buy you enough time to stop your skimmer from going haywire or even two check valves in line:)

[Myka]

Thanks for all the advice so far, it's starting to make sense to me.

Mindy, I bought a DCT12000, which is handy because it has controllable rate of return. The tank is 165g and the sump 50g, and head is maybe 4'~ vertical? I figure the DCT12000 has plenty and more flow than I'll need, so I can always dial it down.

What is the advantage of running a manifold? How hard/easy is it to install it?

Not exactly a handyman here :redface::lol:

My above recommendations are to help keep the plumbing simple for you as possible since it's your first go. The advantage of a manifold is to run reactors or other equipment such as biopellets or GFO reactors without needing extra pumps to run those items. The manifold is simple...it's just a few Tees added together. Reduce the Tees to 1/2", add a ball valve to each manifold output. I could find a pic probably later...

Will adding a check valve on the return line reduce the amount of back siphoning?

For the purpose of helping the skimmer to not overflow, yes. Do not rely on it to keep your floors dry though. The less feet of plumbing you have and tall standpipes you should not have a lot of back siphoning anyway. Make sure there is room in your sump for the back siphoning as well as the full volume of the overflow (just in case). You can set your Apex to turn off the skimmer when you turn off pumps for feeding too. You can also turn off various pumps (like the return pump) with the push of a button on an Apex. You can also hook up powerbars with switches if you didn't have an Apex, so there are lots of options rather than unplugging the return pump.

[PaulCheung]

I have put aside my tank upgrade project due to lack of knowledge of plumbing. An drilled empty tank has been stored in my garage for a few months now. I am glad to get useful information from the forum. Hopefully my upgrade project will eventually be resumed.

[rishu_pepper]

Brian,

Whether you do it or someone else plumbs your tank, remember to dry fit everything so you know for sure everything is going to fit before you glue. I glue everything that is under pressure, but I only silicone those pipes that are under gravity flow. I imagine most people glue everything.

Also, most of the time, leaks will be from the bulkhead so be extra careful there. Hand tighten & only add a 1/4 turn with a wrench. Any more and you risk damaging the glass around the hole.

Mine is an external overflow box so my ball valve for the return is under the overflow for ease of access, as opposed to being right near the pump outlet. Of course, part of the reason is also I don't T-off my return to run any media reactors (I just use Maxijet 1200s for that). I use a controllable flow DC pump as well, so I'd rather run my pump at lower flow and hopefully put less wear and tear on my return pump and just use easily replaceable MJ1200s for the media reactors.

Anthony

Good idea about dry fitting to check. I'll definitely put that on the to-do list when the time comes. I'm still unsure whether to run reactors through the return pump. I think I'll ditch the Biopellets and go with vinegar dosing, and just run a TLF for PO4 removal with RowaPhos or something.

absolutely , a syphon break is def one way to stop it , placing your lines near the top or using locline to angle them is another option as well. check valves will buy you enough time to stop your skimmer from going haywire or even two check valves in line:)

That's a great idea. I'll grab a loc-line for the return and angle it up/have it high up the water line to reduce the back-siphon. Probably will still get one check valve just to help with the skimmer.

My above recommendations are to help keep the plumbing simple for you as possible since it's your first go. The advantage of a manifold is to run reactors or other equipment such as biopellets or GFO reactors without needing extra pumps to run those items. The manifold is simple...it's just a few Tees added together. Reduce the Tees to 1/2", add a ball valve to each manifold output. I could find a pic probably later...

For the purpose of helping the skimmer to not overflow, yes. Do not rely on it to keep your floors dry though. The less feet of plumbing you have and tall standpipes you should not have a lot of back siphoning anyway. Make sure there is room in your sump for the back siphoning as well as the full volume of the overflow (just in case). You can set your Apex to turn off the skimmer when you turn off pumps for feeding too. You can also turn off various pumps (like the return pump) with the push of a button on an Apex. You can also hook up powerbars with switches if you didn't have an Apex, so there are lots of options rather than unplugging the return pump.

Yes, I will have my Apex to do these things. I want a one-button macro so I/wife can feed or do maintenance/WC with things turned off temporarily without having to unplug stuff or switch off the power bar. Thank God for controllers! :mrgreen:

[Myka]

Fwiw, my last two tanks have been plumbed in such a fashion that the back siphon doesn't affect the skimmer. The skimmer chamber has a 4" higher water level than the return chamber so the return chamber takes all the back siphon. My skimmer stays running during water changes.

[rishu_pepper]

Curious, does anyone use vinyl instead of PVC for plumbing here?

[daplatapus]

I just use it as a vibration damper, maybe a foot or two.
I found it liked to kink over time.

[rishu_pepper]

So far I have these in mind, as far as shopping list goes:

3x bulkheads (two for drain lines, one for return)
4' PVC pipe (for the two drain lines)
4' flex PVC (for return line, I want to go this direction to lessen horizontal travel)
2x true union gate/ball valve (for main drain line flow adjustment, and one for return flow into refugium)
1x tee valve (for teeing off flow from return to refugium)
2x union (one for return pump, one for emergency drain line)
PVC glue
teflon tape for threads

I do not plan to have a manifold at this time, since I have decided not to run biopellets, so I don't have any reactors other than a TLF for RowaPhos, and I'll just run that on its own.

*stupid question* 1.5" size for all the bulkheads/pipes related to the drain, and 1" size for the return pump line?

Let me know if I'm missing things :)

[WarDog]

We should talk/coffee before you go shopping. I'd hate to see you spend money where you don't have to. Are you going to the frag swap?

[rishu_pepper]

We should talk/coffee before you go shopping. I'd hate to see you spend money where you don't have to. Are you going to the frag swap?

Yeah, Joanne and I will be there. Chat more over beer. :biggrin:

[WarDog]

Yeah, Joanne and I will be there. Chat more over beer. :biggrin:

Done and done.

[daplatapus]

Mmmmmm, beer

[jason604]

I would go with more Unions. It will make life a lot easier down the road if u ever want to disassemble the piping for cleaning or if u have something big stuck in there( U never know). I use 5 unions on each pipeline for herbie

[Myka]

So far I have these in mind, as far as shopping list goes:

3x bulkheads (two for drain lines, one for return)
4' PVC pipe (for the two drain lines)
4' flex PVC (for return line, I want to go this direction to lessen horizontal travel)
2x true union gate/ball valve (for main drain line flow adjustment, and one for return flow into refugium)
1x tee valve (for teeing off flow from return to refugium)
2x union (one for return pump, one for emergency drain line)
PVC glue
teflon tape for threads

I do not plan to have a manifold at this time, since I have decided not to run biopellets, so I don't have any reactors other than a TLF for RowaPhos, and I'll just run that on its own.

*stupid question* 1.5" size for all the bulkheads/pipes related to the drain, and 1" size for the return pump line?

Let me know if I'm missing things :)

Looks fine to me. Do you have to do any corners with with vinyl? It likes to kink after awhile (someone else said this too). Don't forget sandpaper. How are you cutting the pipe?

If you're using Loc-line for the return inside the tank (I always do) make sure you buy bulkheads with threads on the inside. You will need a reducer because Loc-line only comes in 1/2" and 3/4". If you can find a SCH80 reducer then it will be grey instead of white, which is nice as it will blend in better with the black Loc-line. If you're using vinyl tubing, I imagine you will be using a 90 degree elbow hose barb fitting with thread on the other end, so you will want your return bulkheads to be thread on both ends.

For the drain lines you will want slip (socket) on both ends. You don't have to glue your standpipes in - I prefer not to. Then when cleaning the overflow you can put a sock on the drain and pull the pipes and clean it out real well. They will seal just fine without being glued - double check by filling the overflow with water with the standpipes in and return flow off, mark the water level. Check back in 30 mins and see if the water level went down in the overflow.

[target]

You can also use krylon fusion spray paint to paint the reducer on the locline black. That's what I did. Blends in perfectly.