Algae problems, Cyano or Diatoms?

[Humpty]

Ok so I have a reef system that I started around the middle of October 2014. So its been up and running for about 4 months. It is a 180g tank with an 80g sump. I run 2 x 5' ledzeal led lights. I have a skimmer rated for 400g and I use ro/di water. I have it stocked right now with various corals and,
2x black ice clowns
4x regular clowns
6x blue chromis
1x lawnmower blenny
1x 6 line wrasse
1x velvet damsel
1x royal dottyback
15-20 hermit crabs
3x turbo snails
I feed them homemade frozen food once a day.

I have been into freshwater tanks for about 10 yrs, I have kept tanks from 10g to 200g. I have an understanding of most of the algae that I have to deal with. Saltwater is a whole different beast. Im having a harder time figuring out what is what.
So lately I have been getting some red spots in my sump and on some rocks and also on my glass. I know from freshwater that cyano usuaully develops in sheets and comes off easy. Well these red spots don't develop anything like it does in my freshwater tanks. its just a bunch of spots not sheets. I also read that turbo snails will not eat cyano but whatever is growing all over my glass my turbo snails eat it up. Some of the red spots are on the glass pretty good, doesn't come off with my fingers. Some of it feels a tiny bit slimy, but not like cyano, more like diatoms. I've also read that cyano develops in lower flow areas but I am getting red areas in my higher flow areas and nothing in the slower areas. I heard that if you use a turkey baster cyano should come off the rocks but nothing is coming off when I do that.


I test my tank every weekend. This sunday my parameters were as follows:
Ph = 8.3
Alk = 13
Nitrate = 10
Phospahte = 0.5
Calcium = 460
Mag = 1350
Salinity = 0.026
Temp = 79

13875
13876
13877
13878
13879
13880

So can anyone help me figure out what type of algae this is so I can figure out the best route to getting rid of it?

[Slyguy00]

Looks like Cyano to me.

[Craigdillman]

Cyano too me too increase flow and manually remove it will doscourge growth it should go on it's own in time there are some products out there that fix it I've used a few and both worked good just follow the directions but if it's a small case flow and wc and time should solve it

[reef-keeper]

Did you record you phosphates correctly? .5 is real high. Should be < .04. That high level will cause algae growth

[Skimmin]

Dosing vinegar with a big skimmer for export and a uv light has worked awesome for me. My tank is 300gal, and was started November 2014. I had the same issues you describe and also had a fair bit of hair algae and a really cloudy bacterial bloom too. It was so bad at one point I could suck out the cyano and within about 10 minutes it would be back. I have been dosing 30ml vinegar daily since I started the tank and in the last few weeks the that has become completely clear of algae. Reefwars posted a vinegar dosing regimen. I have been sticking to .1 ml per gallon vinegar and am now slowly increasing the vinegar to 40ml per day. Nitrate and phosphate are 0.

[Simmy]

I've used Chemi-clean in the past and the Cyano hasn't come back! Its a good product to use but it'll make your skimmer go nuts for about a week.

[BubblesUp]

I used Chemi-clean like Simmy and it works very well. I got mine on Amazon.

[Skimmin]

I like vinegar because you can continue to add it after the problem blooms go away for nitrate and phosphate export. If anything it seems to make my skimmer pull more 'gunk' and there's no excessive foaming whatsoever. You could always message reefwars. Or call Denny at Concept Aquarium in Calgary. He has a wealth of knowledge about dosing and his advice has done nothing but good for me.

[Humpty]

The phosphate test is tough to distinguish the exact shade sometimes, but it always tests between .25 and .5. It been like that since I got the test kit.
I don't think its a major problem right now but I know cyano in a freshwater tank can go from minor to major very quickly.
I would like to stay away from chemicals like chemiclean unless no other options work for me. I not a big fan of adding chemicals, I would rather adjust some things and see what happens.
I've heard about the vodka dosing but have never tried it. I get very busy in the summer and would have a hard time dosing everyday. I will do some more reading on the subject.

For now I made some adjustments to my chaeto and lighting in the sump. I've turned the output in the sump to point at the chaeto which is keeping it tumbling. I also moved my powerheads and outputs in my main tank to point towards some areas that have the most cyano.

I thought that turbo snails don't eat cyano but its mowing down a lot of the red algae on my glass. That's the main reason I was not sure if it was cyano or not.

[BubblesUp]

No other options worked for me so I went with the Chemi-clean. It worked and haven't had a problem since. It came in on a piece for me.

[Humpty]

Well that's good to know. I have looked into chemi-clean but I don't think my problem is big enough yet to use it. If I can't keep it under control I may consider that option.

[GoFish]

I never had cyano until using Phosphate Solution (Precision solutions) to lower phosphate. It worked great but then got Cyano for the first time... Used chemiclean as directed and the cyano disappeared within 3 days and hasn't come back
I can't tell from your pictures if it's cyano, just saying if it is +1 to chemiclean

[reefwars]

The phosphate test is tough to distinguish the exact shade sometimes, but it always tests between .25 and .5. It been like that since I got the test kit.
I don't think its a major problem right now but I know cyano in a freshwater tank can go from minor to major very quickly.
I would like to stay away from chemicals like chemiclean unless no other options work for me. I not a big fan of adding chemicals, I would rather adjust some things and see what happens.
I've heard about the vodka dosing but have never tried it. I get very busy in the summer and would have a hard time dosing everyday. I will do some more reading on the subject.

For now I made some adjustments to my chaeto and lighting in the sump. I've turned the output in the sump to point at the chaeto which is keeping it tumbling. I also moved my powerheads and outputs in my main tank to point towards some areas that have the most cyano.

I thought that turbo snails don't eat cyano but its mowing down a lot of the red algae on my glass. That's the main reason I was not sure if it was cyano or not.


Is that an API test kit your using for phosphate? If so then it most likely will always red between those two , it's not a good test kit at all.

More flow spreads the cyano , that's more of an old thinking that turned out to be the opposite , so don't spread it further (it's not algae) by blowing it around if anything siphon it out of the syste all together.

Turbo snails will eat sme cyano or at least they graze through their path , however they won't eat the large 1/8" thick slimy mats when it's severe.

[Humpty]

Ya it's an api test kit. So is it pretty much useless then?
What brand would you recommend?

Good to know about spreading cyano, I'll reposition the outputs tomorrow.

I can't seem to get much of it out with the syphon, it's so thin right now it sticks to the rocks. I'm sure if it gets worse it'll be easier to siphon out. The only place I can clean it easy is the glass which I can't really siphon after. That's also the place that the snails do the most work.

[reefwars]

For phosphate I prefer a Hanna tester or a salifert test kit :)

I wouldn't worry too much about it yet maybe kill the lights for a day or two then if it comes back look at other things like nutrient import/export

[Humpty]

Ok so should I blackout the main tank and leave the light on in the sump for the chaeto or black out both tanks?
I know the blackout works amazing in planted tanks but will the corals handle the blackout ok? I have candy canes, lobos, favias, hammer, frogspawn, mushrooms, and a few zoas.

[reefwars]

Ok so should I blackout the main tank and leave the light on in the sump for the chaeto or black out both tanks?
I know the blackout works amazing in planted tanks but will the corals handle the blackout ok? I have candy canes, lobos, favias, hammer, frogspawn, mushrooms, and a few zoas.

most likely dont have to go to that extreme , but just to not turn your lights on for a day ....everything else stays the same :)

its not a bad case so no need to pull out the big guns unless it doesnt go away:)

[Humpty]

most likely dont have to go to that extreme , but just to not turn your lights on for a day ....everything else stays the same :)

its not a bad case so no need to pull out the big guns unless it doesnt go away:)


I agree that its not too bad yet. I like to make small changes, big changes seem to cause more problems.

I've been reading about vinegar dosing, it's interesting. Is this something I should start doing or should I give it more time for my tank to system to balance out? Or stay away from it unless it is needed?

[reefwars]

I agree that its not too bad yet. I like to make small changes, big changes seem to cause more problems.

I've been reading about vinegar dosing, it's interesting. Is this something I should start doing or should I give it more time for my tank to system to balance out? Or stay away from it unless it is needed?

it can be done from the minute the first foods hit the water , however you should read on it and what it does , whats needed to do it and what some of the consequences can be.

i can def help you get started or at least put a nutrient export plan into place , would be best to come see me at concept(denny) and i can show you a few things and go over some info with you :)


cheers

denny

[reefwars]

have a read here to get you started:)

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2134105&highlight=carbon+dosing


if you want to go further come see me:

[GoFish]

Does anyone else think that really coarse substrate like that could cause issues by trapping detritus and pockets of stagnant water? I would think the water quality at the bottom of the tank could contribute to algae.
Just a thought

[reefwars]

Does anyone else think that really coarse substrate like that could cause issues by trapping detritus and pockets of stagnant water? I would think the water quality at the bottom of the tank could contribute to algae.
Just a thought

yes absolutely , while ditrius its self is near the end of the line , trapped foods def will break down into nitrogen and phosphorus which can fuel cyano for sure:)

i personally wouldn't have such a large grain sand bed either :)

[Humpty]

have a read here to get you started:)

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2134105&highlight=carbon+dosing


if you want to go further come see me:

Thanks a lot! I'll definitely take you up on that offer. I met you before I started my tank and you gave me a good reef tank rundown.

I'm not sure what made me decide to go with that substrate. I use sand in all my freshwater tanks so detritus builds up on top of the sand and doesn't get stuck in it so much.
I never been a heavy feeder. I vacuum the gravel when I do water changes. I turkey bast the rocks once a week and put on the filter sock to catch floaties. I was hoping with those practices and a large cleanup crew I can keep on top of build up. There isn't much stock in the tank so I won't have a ton of detrius.

[Howie]

have a read here to get you started:)

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2134105&highlight=carbon+dosing


if you want to go further come see me:

Great link, good read for sure