Coral won't grow!

[Metrontech]

So am I running a 55 gal tank with 1"10k white 54w and a blue 440-460 54w

Is that enough light?

Kenya tree and some leather as well as a the green grass stuff, forget the name

I feeding coral snow every other day also

Any help?

[Aquattro]

Lighting is bare minimum IMO. What are water parameters? Coral snow isn't going to make anything grow.

[Metrontech]

Why do you say snow won't help?

Just did a 5-1 test

Trace nitrates, zero nitrite

7.8-8.0 ph
240 kh
180 gh
Phosphate trace

[reefwars]

Because coral snow isn't food , as well the 5 in 1 test is bottom rung on a tall ladder , if you want to succeed in corals you'll need good test kits for nitrates , phosphates , calcium , alkalinity and magnesium as well accurate temp and salinity to ensure the tests are correct .

Lighting is a piece of a larger pie:)

[Myka]

You don't need to test calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium in a softie-only tank as long as you are doing at least 10% weekly waterchanges or 20% bi-weekly (is even better) since the waterchanges will keep the parameters within reason. I would suggest you use a salt that has reasonable calcium and alkalinity levels though, like H2Ocean or Reef Crystals.

If you start to buy LPS hard corals like Frogspawns, Hammers, Plates, Duncans, Candy Canes, then you will probably need to start testing and dosing cal, alk, Mg because these corals use these minerals to build their skeletons and will deplete the water. Soft corals do not use these minerals at nearly the same rate, so regular waterchanges will usually keep up.

You can always take a sample to your LFS once a month or so and get them to test cal, alk, and Mg for you. This will be cheaper than buying the kits yourself, plus you won't be testing as often on a softie-only tank as you would on a hard coral tank, so the kits will expire before you use them up.

I would definitely suggest you get better tests kits for nitrate and phosphate though. Elos is my preference, but Salifert is good too.

How long has the tank been set up? How long have the corals been in the tank? Do you have any algae in the tank? How long do the lights run for? What is the temperature in the morning before the lights come on? How about at the end of the day just as the lights go out? What do you keep salinity at? How are you testing salinity? Are you adding/using anything else on the tank like carbon, phosphate media, other additives?

Could you post a pic of your tank and sump? A picture tells a thousand words. :)

[Metrontech]

I do have a proper testing kit, running it now

The tank is 7 weeks old, could be it too eh?

I'll repost my findings

The temp is hovering 78-79

Mike

[Myka]

I do have a proper testing kit, running it now

The tank is 7 weeks old, could be it too eh?

I'll repost my findings

The temp is hovering 78-79

Mike

In a brand new tank like this, you won't see softie growth in only 7 weeks. Once the tank is established, you will notice growth in 7 weeks.

What brand test kits do you have?

[Aquattro]

7 weeks? You're not going to see any noticeable growth in a new tank in 7 weeks.

[Metrontech]

Phosphate - .25
Nitrate - 0
Kh - 89.5 (5)
Calcium - 640
Amonia - 0

[reefwars]

agreed growth is something that will take some time and varies from species to species:)

[Myka]

Phosphate - .25
Nitrate - 0
Kh - 89.5 (5)
Calcium - 640
Amonia - 0

API kits are ok for ammonia and nitrate, but they really aren't that good for calcium and alkalinity. I'm doubtful your test kits are accurate, but have you been adding something with calcium in it?

What brand of salt are you using? What supplements are you adding?

In short, Coral Snow makes your skimmer work better, and may or may not help transport nutrients to your corals (depends who you believe).

[Metrontech]

Phosphate - .25
Nitrate - 0
Kh - 89.5 (5)
Calcium - 640
Amonia - 0

Are these optimal?

[Aquattro]

Are these optimal?

PO4 is a tad high, although I don't know if that's as applicable to softies

[Metrontech]

PO4 is a tad high, although I don't know if that's as applicable to softies


Which one is that?

Not adding anything and yes my skimmer is working alot better with the snow

I have a new ro/di system on the water is pretty clean like 1ppm at its worst

Should I just be patient? Buy better lights?

[Aquattro]

PO4 is phosphate

[Metrontech]

Is there any way way to get rid of the phosphate?

Or just water changes?

[warriorcookie]

Is there any way way to get rid of the phosphate?

Or just water changes?

Waterchanges are good, I use GFO on a daily basis too.



You're asking alot of good questions. Here's a good article to get you started, gives alot of good starting points for all these parameters. Randy Holmes Farley is a great author. There are many other great articles by him.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/


I'd like to echo the suggestion of getting better test kits. I've used API for ammonia and nitrate in the past, but the Calcium, Alk, Mag are all horribly inaccurate. Elos and Salifert are both good, Hanna is more money up front but by far the most accurate. Watch the youtube videos on how to use them properly. Also, take your water in to the LFS for testing to verify you're doing it properly.

For PH I haven't found a test kit that's accurate enough to be relevant. I use a PH probe to continuos monitoring. Pinpoint is the most common. I'm using Apex now.

[Myka]

Phosphate - .25
Nitrate - 0
Kh - 89.5 (5)
Calcium - 640
Amonia - 0

Are these optimal?

No. I don't trust these readings to be correct though. If you're not adding anything with calcium in it, then the readings don't make sense. Unless you have one of those old buckets of Kent salt laying around that had calcium that high! :lol: I digress, which brand of salt are you using?

Leaving the word "optimal" out, softies are quite happy within these ranges:

Calcium 370-450 ppm
Alkalinity 7-10 dKH (125-160 ppm)
Nitrate preferably under 20 ppm, but many tolerate up to 100 ppm
Phosphate under 0.25 ppm, preferably under 0.1 ppm

Neither fish nor your basic softies (leathers, green star polyps, Ricordea, basic mushrooms) care much about nitrate. Of course, both fish and soft corals will grow faster, have better color, and generally be healthier if you keep nitrate much lower.

Phosphate doesn't affect fish much either, but will affect corals (of all types) much more. Softies are tolerant, but as with nitrate, they will do better with low phosphate.

Is there any way way to get rid of the phosphate?

Or just water changes?

Water changes are not an efficient way to deal with phosphate. First, get an accurate reading. GFO (granular ferric oxide) will lower phosphate, but it can be very aggressive. If you use too much on a tank with high phosphate (0.25 ppm is high) you can lose corals.

Go get an accurate reading for phosphate and nitrate first from you LFS, then come back and post it. You could test calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium while you're at it if you want. We can recommend what to do next once we know accurate readings.

[Metrontech]

So I did a test on my DI water

I am getting 7PPM which it should be 0 right?

Also I am getting 300 or so calcium and .25 phosphate from that water

So I am putting into my tank...argh!!

Any help?

[Myka]

Pretty sure it's the test kits. Wait, did I say that already? ;)

[Metrontech]

Most lfs use that kit to run there tanks

I'll see what I can do

[Myka]

Most lfs use that kit to run there tanks

I'll see what I can do
Go to a different LFS. The better stores will nit be using API.

[reefwars]

For phosphate sources look at foods first they are usually by far the biggest contributor :)

[Aquattro]

I'll see what I can do

you could buy your own...

[GoFish]

Holy test kit discrepancies. Your 3rd post says 240kh! And the 9th post 89.5.... And then calcium from 640 to 300... And TDS from 1 to 7 now.
If any of these are accurate from 1 test to another I find it hard to believe any coral would be comfortable enough to grow and not stressed

[gobytron]

Go to a different LFS. The better stores will nit be using API.

Pretty sure most stores just use whichever test kit they get the best price on.

I would bet most vendors/manufacturers even offer an incentive to use theirs in store.

I wouldn't base the quality of an LFS on the brand of text kit they use.

[RMC]

I thought I could cheap out on test kits and didn't take the advice of my LFS when they recommended the premium kits. I started getting test results that didn't make sense with the cheap API kits, simular to your expierence. Then I ended up buying the premium kits and got the accuracy I needed.

Lessons learned, don't cheap out on this hobby if you want to be successful! The people on this forum are knowledgable and want you to succeed. This is a great community to be part of.

ps. If you want my API kits come by and I'll trade them for 1 beer each. I'll even accept cheap beer instead of the premium stuff :biggrin:

[gobytron]

Whats really crazy is that a company can continue to sell kits that are so inaccurate....

Especially since testing is so integral to reefing in particular.

Though I guess there is lots of examples of inferior technology that continues to sell

[Metrontech]

That is with a 5-1 strip, the latest post I put was with the API testing kit

I am amazed at all the opinions but little help

No one has stated a brand that they swear by

What do you suggest since you took the time to read the posts


Holy test kit discrepancies. Your 3rd post says 240kh! And the 9th post 89.5.... And then calcium from 640 to 300... And TDS from 1 to 7 now.
If any of these are accurate from 1 test to another I find it hard to believe any coral would be comfortable enough to grow and not stressed

[Metrontech]

I have been in the SW hobby now for nearly 2 months...

I am amazed at all the opinions...its quite something

I just can't believe API would sell a product that doesn't work and more than that stores would swear by them

I am on the hunt for the most accurate testing kits

Please advise...no opinions please...just hard facts of what you have used and what works

[Aquattro]

No one has stated a brand that they swear by



Yes, it was already mentioned, Elos or Salifert.

[RMC]

I have been in the SW hobby now for nearly 2 months...

I am amazed at all the opinions...its quite something

I just can't believe API would sell a product that doesn't work and more than that stores would swear by them

I am on the hunt for the most accurate testing kits

Please advise...no opinions please...just hard facts of what you have used and what works

The nature of forums are to provide opinions...
This is what I use
Alk and P04 = hanna
Cal, nitrate and ammonia = Salifert

[WarDog]

I use API for ammonia only, all others are Salifert. Saving up for a couple Hanna's.
My LFS advised against API, after I mentioned I was planning a SPS dominant tank. I had no problem paying a few dollars more for higher accuracy.

[Aquattro]

Fact, as dictated by popular opinion

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=40749

[The Guy]

Test kits are the tip of the iceberg in keeping salt water tanks, you asked what you should be using, Elos, Salifert and Hanna have been mentioned. If you want to have accuracy these are the ones to choose from. Oh and by the way most of the folks that have made comments are seasoned salt water reefing people, I've been at salt water 4 years and am always asking for advise on this forum, you never know it all and there's lots of knowledge here I find.

[RMC]

^^^^ this ^^^

[Metrontech]

Thanks for the clarification, it's appreciated

I will look for those brands, money isn't the issue, I just don't want to start a testing collection

It's obvious not to listen to the main chain stores I guess

I appreciate the input from everyone, wasn't meaning to sound ungrateful or rude if that was taken from my frustrations

Haven't seen anyone mention Red Sea, are they any more accurate? Or a waste of money?

Thank again

Mike

Test kits are the tip of the iceberg in keeping salt water tanks, you asked what you should be using, Elos, Salifert and Hanna have been mentioned. If you want to have accuracy these are the ones to choose from. Oh and by the way most of the folks that have made comments are seasoned salt water reefing people, I've been at salt water 4 years and am always asking for advise on this forum, you never know it all and there's lots of knowledge here I find.

[RMC]

Being new to the hobby myself, I understand your frustrations.

I've heard good thing about Red Sea tests, I'm particular their Mag kits.

You've heard it before, I'm sure. But I reiterate this hobby takes patience, the people on this forum are here to help you.

I personally started this hobby thinking I could cheap out on certain things, but quickly found out it's best to To research, take your time and trust the individuals on this forum with the years of expierence. Most people on this forum are here to help!

Best of luck!

[Metrontech]

Thanks, this was originally posted in the Newb area...

Looking forward to growing some coral

Appreciate the input

Mike

Being new to the hobby myself, I understand your frustrations.

I've heard good thing about Red Sea tests, I'm particular their Mag kits.

You've heard it before, I'm sure. But I reiterate this hobby takes patience, the people on this forum are here to help you.

I personally started this hobby thinking I could cheap out on certain things, but quickly found out it's best to To research, take your time and trust the individuals on this forum with the years of expierence. Most people on this forum are here to help!

Best of luck!

[Aquattro]

Thanks, this was originally posted in the Newb area...



That forum is for articles, not new posts. Common mistake :)

[Metrontech]

Actually it was moved

Maybe because of the coral nature

That forum is for articles, not new posts. Common mistake :)

[Aquattro]

Actually it was moved

Maybe because of the coral nature

No, I moved it because that forum is for articles, not posts.

[Metrontech]

Can you direct me to the proper place to post questions for newbs?

[Aquattro]

Can you direct me to the proper place to post questions for newbs?

Sure.
Reef related - Reef
Coral Related - Coral
Fish related - Fish
Etc

[Metrontech]

Ok so newb error...

On my calcium reading I was wrong it's around 380

Nitrate - 0
Phosphate - < .25
KH - 9

That seems to be in the right ranges

Also I replaced my blue light as it was aged and after a day there are polyps starting to come and my Kenya tree is actually standing up a bit instead of drooping

Last question for the pros... What's the best salinity level?

One of the charts said 1.026

Are there preferred salinity levels?

Much appreciate the help

[Aquattro]

Last question for the pros... What's the best salinity level?

One of the charts said 1.026



Typical levels on reefs is 1.026. I can't see any reason to not use that value.

[Myka]

Whats really crazy is that a company can continue to sell kits that are so inaccurate....

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4400

I rest my case. :mrgreen:

[Aquattro]

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4400

I rest my case. :mrgreen:

I had a sea clone once :)

[Myka]

On my calcium reading I was wrong it's around 380

Nitrate - 0
Phosphate - < .25
KH - 9

That seems to be in the right ranges

Last question for the pros... What's the best salinity level?


1.0264 SG or 35 ppt is NSW (natural seawater) so that's always a common recommendation for reef tanks. Some people keep FO (fish only) tanks at lower salinity.

Your phosphate is quite high. Is 0.25 ppm the lowest reading on the test kit that you're using? Are you saying that there is color in the test tube, but it is less than the lowest reading?

I had a sea clone once :)

Me too. It's embarrassing. I even paid $250 for a Prizm protein skimmer in the mid-90s.

[Ginu]

HEHE I love this thread...

When I started reefing I started with API test kits... and all I can also vouch for their low quality test kits... you get what you pay for...

From API i went to ELOS which was a good step-up although still not satisfied I bought Red Sea test packages like the foundation (Ca, KH, MG) and this seemed to be good then I purchased the Red Sea Color test kit (K,I, Fe) and they seemed to be OK until the Red Sea test kit started to crap out and I wasn't getting a proper reading due to color discrepancy... The Red Sea KH solution will get tainted if you recycle whats left in the syringe...

Then i bought the Hanna Alk Chlorimeter along with Hanna Ultra Low Range Phosphorous Chlorimeter and holly molly what a breakthrough...
I test my alk every 3-4 days and sometimes every day and adjust my dosers accordingly as it literally takes 1 min to do a test and there is no color guessing here... just the plain number...
Now I wish they had the checkers for Potassium as well...

And to wrap it all up, each person is different and will use different methods to achieve the same or close end results and that's the beauty of this hobby... just because one method works for one person, doesn't mean it will work for everyone else and its mainly due to many factors like time, cost, ease of use and many other factors.

For example I use all brands of test kits according to whichever I think gets me the best results and also the ease of use is critical as I'm not the best when it comes to colors...

Examples:
For Amonia/Nitrite i use API
For Nitrate I use ELOS
For Calcium/Mg I use Red Sea and test against API if bored
For Potassium/I/Fe I use Red Sea
For Alk/Phosphate I use Hanna and I there is no way I'm going back to any other test kit (wish all test kits were Hanna)

Now is that what I use and that's what works for me, but doesnt mean it will work for everyone...


Now API is the wort test kit possible :) if you want proof go to the pharmacy and purchase a 5ml or 10ml syringe(very inexpensive 50cents at most) and add 5ml to the vial... you will be amazed to see their 5ml line is not very accurate and I think its off by .5 to 1ml out of the total 5ml of tank water... That, right off the bat can be a discrepancy of 10-20% of the end result if not more :)

[Ginu]

Left work before finishishing the post

Let's say the discrepancy on ATI test kit is 10-15% and we do a test for mg and cone up with 1000 ... After we factor in the 10-15% discrepancy that water can be 850-1150 mag when your target is 1250-1350..

At this point you might be as well guessing

[Myka]

wish all test kits were Hanna

Have you tried the Hanna Calcium checker yet? You might change your mind! :p

I agree though, I wish all kits were like the Hanna Alk and Phos kits. Potassium would be a break through.

[Ginu]

Have you tried the Hanna Calcium checker yet? You might change your mind! :p

I agree though, I wish all kits were like the Hanna Alk and Phos kits. Potassium would be a break through.

He he, I did my homework on that and potassium would be amazing if it was a Hanna chlorimeter but my understanding is that it can't be made that way.

[Metrontech]

hey again, so since I originally posted this topic I have purchased a bunch of sali test kits, Hanna phosphate test

Upgraded my dosing chemicals to the highest quality crystals I can get

Things are growing and stable

Just need to swap my calcium tester, which is the absolute best ?

Hanna?

[rishu_pepper]

hey again, so since I originally posted this topic I have purchased a bunch of sali test kits, Hanna phosphate test

Upgraded my dosing chemicals to the highest quality crystals I can get

Things are growing and stable

Just need to swap my calcium tester, which is the absolute best ?

Hanna?

Good on you to spare no expenses and being proactive.

I used to use API Ca test but upgraded to Red Sea, much easier to read/do. I have no experience with other brands but most should be fine IMO (not API).

[daplatapus]

My favourite Ca test is Elos, but J&L don't carry it no more :(

[Aquattro]

My favourite Ca test is Elos, but J&L don't carry it no more :(

Reef Supplies carries Elos.