Finding nitrates

[Proteus]

Testing nitrates in one of my coral beds I am finding roughly 2ppm Nitrates. I've increased my carbon dose but still no affect on nitrate levels.
In my sump I have a rock bin to which my overflow drains into then into filter socks. Am wondering if this could be the source of no3

[jordsyke]

possibly... I find that going below 2ppm nitrates causes issues within my corals tohugh so I decrease carbon dosing to maintain nitrates between 2-5ppm

[Myka]

Testing nitrates in one of my coral beds I am finding roughly 2ppm Nitrates. I've increased my carbon dose but still no affect on nitrate levels.
In my sump I have a rock bin to which my overflow drains into then into filter socks. Am wondering if this could be the source of no3

Have you confirmed this reading? If I make changes and I don't see the reaction I expect, I double check at the LFS. If there is detritus build up on the rocks or under the rocks that could be your issue, same if you don't change the socks often enough.

possibly... I find that going below 2ppm nitrates causes issues within my corals tohugh so I decrease carbon dosing to maintain nitrates between 2-5ppm

I agree. I think 2 ppm is perfect. That's what my tank is sitting at right now. I feed the crap out of it to achieve this. :D

[Proteus]

Never really tested against another test kit. Just against nsw.
I'm not overly worried about the nitrates. Just wondering. Other tank test lower for nitrates with larger bioload. Only difference is the rock placement

Thanks :-)

[xenon]

Detectable NO3 can be desirable so I wouldn't change anything!

Many people feed their fish like crazy to try and get something to register on the test card.

Having nitrates up to 5ppm gives SPS a deeper, richer color.

[reefwars]

Testing nitrates in one of my coral beds I am finding roughly 2ppm Nitrates. I've increased my carbon dose but still no affect on nitrate levels.
In my sump I have a rock bin to which my overflow drains into then into filter socks. Am wondering if this could be the source of no3

What's your po4 levels?

[Wheelman76]

Damn you Denny , that was my question lol

[hfp75]

I aim for 5

[Proteus]

0.06 with Hanna phosphorus checker.

[Myka]

In almost every case, you will get 0 nitrate long before you get 0 phosphate, so I don't see that being an issue. Your phosphorus to nitrate ratio makes sense.

Never really tested against another test kit. Just against nsw.

NSW is natural seawater. I don't hink you have any of that in Devon. I think you mean ASW; artificial seawater?

The hobby-grade test kits we use suck in the grand scheme of water testing ability of the human race. I've found lots of test kits that wander with age, even well inside the expiry. It's worth a double-checking.

[reefwars]

Nsw= new salt water

I know it's confusing as hell as it use to mean natural sea water lol

Nick what are you carbon dosing and how much?

Yur no3 isn't high but I bet it can go down if you want it to ;)

[Proteus]

Lol buy nsw I meant new salt water.

I really don't have much faith in test kits. Really do hope Hanna will make a decent no3 checker

[Proteus]

Nsw= new salt water

I know it's confusing as hell as it use to mean natural sea water lol

Nick what are you carbon dosing and how much?

Yur no3 isn't high but I bet it can go down if you want it to ;)

Dosing zeo start at 0.8ml for a 50 gal system.
Also dosing zeo food, bac, biomate accordingly

[reefwars]

Dosing zeo start at 0.8ml for a 50 gal system.
Also dosing zeo food, bac, biomate accordingly

So you just started then eh?

[reefwars]

As well zeo start is an expensive forum of concentrated acidic acid ;)

[Proteus]

No this tanks been running since October.

[Myka]

Nsw= new salt water

I know it's confusing as hell as it use to mean natural sea water lol

No, it still means natural seawater. It is not proper to call "new salt water" by NSW. ;)

As well zeo start is an expensive forum of concentrated acidic acid ;)

And "acidic acid" is still acetic acid aka vinegar. :lol: :p

No this tanks been running since October.

Yep, that's still new. :)

Do you actually want to reduce the nitrate?

[reefwars]

Sure does , except for when it means new salt water lol

Yes , except vinegar is diluted badly where as zeo start is a stronger solution of a lot more acetic acid (yay look at me lol :) dumping zeo start on your fries would not be tasty (I've tasted zeo start fwiw because it dmelled like vinegar lol)

[Myka]

Sure does , except for when it means new salt water lol

Yes , except vinegar is diluted badly where as zeo start is a stronger solution of a lot more acetic acid (yay look at me lol :) dumping zeo start on your fries would not be tasty (I've tasted zeo start fwiw because it dmelled like vinegar lol)

No Denny, it never means "new salt water". Never. It is improper terminology. Same with "acidic acid". Isn't all acid acidic?? If not, I guess I'm sadly mistaken. I will give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume your understanding is correct, but your spelling is incorrect. I corrected the OP's terminology so he can correctly present his questions in the future (learning is a good thing), then you chime in somehow defending the improper terminology. When someone like you (a frequent poster/LFS employee) starts spouting improper terminology it really degrades the conversation.

Anyway, sorry Proteus I digress now, but hopefully this is clear to you.

[Proteus]

Not really poking to reduce nitrates just looking to understand where they are comming from. If issue did arise in future I would know the root. I know the tank is new. Just not recently started zeo,
The tank was up running for over a year. Then transferred entirely to my house. The rock bin (rubbermaid) did split while setting up tank leaving rock out of water for a day.

Not really looking for trolls either. Apologies if my terminology isn't up to par. Though I'm sure it's understood :-)

[Masonjames]

Not really poking to reduce nitrates just looking to understand where they are comming from. If issue did arise in future I would know the root.


Yes the rock bin is the likely source.

[Myka]

Not really poking to reduce nitrates just looking to understand where they are comming from. If issue did arise in future I would know the root. I know the tank is new. Just not recently started zeo,
The tank was up running for over a year. Then transferred entirely to my house. The rock bin (rubbermaid) did split while setting up tank leaving rock out of water for a day.


Has the nitrate been increasing or decreasing since you set it back up? I asked you before if there was detritus settling in the rocks - that could be the cause. You don't need carbon dosing to achieve "0" nitrate and phosphate, so you're wise to be looking for the cause/difference between this tank and your other one.

[Masonjames]

I asked you before if there was detritus settling in the rocks - that could be the cause.

Of coarse detritus would settle there

[Proteus]

Has the nitrate been increasing or decreasing since you set it back up? I asked you before if there was detritus settling in the rocks - that could be the cause. You don't need carbon dosing to achieve "0" nitrate and phosphate, so you're wise to be looking for the cause/difference between this tank and your other one.

Nitrates have been steady, no noticeable fluctuations, I did add a healthy size cuc to the rock bin to see if that helped with detritus.
And yes just trying to find the difference from other tanks as rock payment is only difference.
Currently using a red sea test kit. But I'll get a salifert to check also. I have had the red sea for 6/8 months and know they break down once opened

[reefwars]

No Denny, it never means "new salt water". Never. It is improper terminology. Same with "acidic acid". Isn't all acid acidic?? If not, I guess I'm sadly mistaken. I will give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume your understanding is correct, but your spelling is incorrect. I corrected the OP's terminology so he can correctly present his questions in the future (learning is a good thing), then you chime in somehow defending the improper terminology. When someone like you (a frequent poster/LFS employee) starts spouting improper terminology it really degrades the conversation.

Anyway, sorry Proteus I digress now, but hopefully this is clear to you.


well i supposed you MUST be right then lol , so if he posted it and i also posted it , while it was only you who corrected it....i guess were both wrong and i just got lucky on my guess lol

i do like coincidences but at the same time it doesn't take much googling to figure out both terms are used quite often....try it out ....i can post them if you like? there must be thousandsssssssss of references lol of course they are all just incorrect too lol

and funny enough something that is so obvious could not be found in the common dictionary so arnt we really just making things up now?

anyway i dont see your argument ( which is ?), i was simply saying that what he meant was new salt water.............i figured this was common knowledge to most reefers but here we are i guess lol

[Masonjames]

Actually I think the root source of your nitrates is from either your correct and/or incorrect terminology of the abbreviation NSW.

[reefwars]

Actually I think the root source of your nitrates is from either your correct and/or incorrect terminology of the abbreviation NSW.

haha that was my guess too , or it could be he has no goby :mrgreen:

[Myka]

Nitrates have been steady, no noticeable fluctuations, I did add a healthy size cuc to the rock bin to see if that helped with detritus.
And yes just trying to find the difference from other tanks as rock payment is only difference.
Currently using a red sea test kit. But I'll get a salifert to check also. I have had the red sea for 6/8 months and know they break down once opened
Most CUC will not consume detritus. Do you do weekly water changes or bi-weekly filter sock changes? If so, you could turkey baste the rock at these times and help to keep it cleaner. Or if it becomes a problem you could remove the rock.

well i supposed you MUST be right then

Yes. Thank you for admitting this - though it's not about who is correct, rather which is correct. :)

[Proteus]

Most CUC will not consume detritus. Do you do weekly water changes or bi-weekly filter sock changes? If so, you could turkey baste the rock at these times and help to keep it cleaner. Or if it becomes a problem you could remove the rock.



I change filter socks every three days and biweekly water change, the rock has alot of upward flow

[reefwars]

Yes. Thank you for admitting this - though it's not about who is correct, rather which is correct. :)

lol tell that to my wife lol

[warriorcookie]

I change filter socks every three days and biweekly water change, the rock has alot of upward flow

I never used to do this until someone showed me. Whenever I do a waterchange now I grab a powerhead and blow all my rocks and corals and stir up as much crap as possible. Then I do the water change. Then I let the tank run over-night and change the filter floss/socks first thing next morning.

Doing this has made a huge impact on keeping my nitrates to a reasonable level.

[reefwars]

maybe this will help nick?


http://www.zeovit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30366

[Proteus]

I never used to do this until someone showed me. Whenever I do a waterchange now I grab a powerhead and blow all my rocks and corals and stir up as much crap as possible. Then I do the water change. Then I let the tank run over-night and change the filter floss/socks first thing next morning.

Doing this has made a huge impact on keeping my nitrates to a reasonable level.

My other tank which has rock in dt I do blow off with turkey baster but this tank all the rock is in bin. Blowing off doesn't work as well.
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd400/titus991/Mobile%20Uploads/DSC_0245.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/titus991/media/Mobile%20Uploads/DSC_0245.jpg.html)
maybe this will help nick?


http://www.zeovit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30366

Thanks Denny I would never guessed nitrates in zeo start.
I do surf the zeo forum and never saw this thread. Good read

[Myka]

When carbon dosing, the bacteria use both NO3 and PO4. The system will usually get to "0" NO3 and still have remaining PO4 because the bacteria use many more times the NO3 than the PO4. Some people claim the Redfield Ratios, but others say that is not quite correct. Point being, you need both in the system in order for them to lower. This is why a lot of people who carbon dose with VSV or biopellets will still use GFO. If you use ZeoStart, you're not supposed to use GFO as they use the opposite theory - instead of removing remaining PO4, add NO3 so that PO4 (and the NO3 you added) can be lowered by the bacteria. What is in that reactor in your sump? Is it GFO?

There's a few possibilities here regarding the rock in the sump, the GFO (if that's what it is), and inaccurate testing. Essentially, if you like how the tank is looking, leave well enough alone. :)

[Proteus]

It is gfo.. I pulled the zeo rocks and went to gfo as the system was being stripped to the point acros were really pale.
The fauna system operates off the same idea, running ultra phos. With the carbon dosing.
From what I remember the red field ratio is 7:1

[Myka]

It is gfo.. I pulled the zeo rocks and went to gfo as the system was being stripped to the point acros were really pale.
The fauna system operates off the same idea, running ultra phos. With the carbon dosing.
From what I remember the red field ratio is 7:1

Yeah, if you don't want pale Acros you have to feed them. Or you can use the ZeoLites, but use less of them. There are all sorts of combos, but you really should subscribe to a whole system or it doesn't usually work the way it was designed. ZeoVit is all about balance. It's great for people who like to tweak things - terrible for people who don't.

Redfield Ratio (C)106 : (N)16 : (P) 1

[reefwars]

It is gfo.. I pulled the zeo rocks and went to gfo as the system was being stripped to the point acros were really pale.
The fauna system operates off the same idea, running ultra phos. With the carbon dosing.
From what I remember the red field ratio is 7:1

The Red field ratio doesn't have much use to us but only to say more nitrogen is used alot more than phosphourous , the numbers will vary from animal to animal .

[Myka]

The Red field ratio doesn't have much use to us but only to say more nitrogen is used alot more than phosphourous , the numbers will vary from animal to animal .

Pretty much.

[reefwars]

Nick if your not getting any white film on the glass , corals are healthy you can continue to raise the carbon source , as mindy said as long as there is available po4 the bacteria will use up the available nitrates as well. The good news about being phosphate limited vs nitrate limited is phosphates are easily added via foods.

If you quit e gfo what happens? Do your phosphates go up terribly or do you run it just in case to keep it low? Your po4 test numbers fall pretty close to margin or error.

[reefwars]

Those who are very aggressive on phosphate removers often find them selves in the opposite boat as products like gfo bind quickly and remove po4 faster than bacteria can use it.

Nitrogen can be added in the form of potassium nitrate or things like amino acids :)

[Proteus]

Yeah, if you don't want pale Acros you have to feed them. Or you can use the ZeoLites, but use less of them. There are all sorts of combos, but you really should subscribe to a whole system or it doesn't usually work the way it was designed. ZeoVit is all about balance. It's great for people who like to tweak things - terrible for people who don't.

Redfield Ratio (C)106 : (N)16 : (P) 1


Ok thank you.

I have been planning on going back to the full zeo system. Just need to make the change slowly

[Myka]

Ok thank you.

I have been planning on going back to the full zeo system. Just need to make the change slowly

Good plan, only bad things happen fast in reefs. :razz:

I like the ZeoVit system because I like tinkering, but on the flip side, I don't like tinkering to be required when I don't want to tinker. :lol: So now I use Prodibio (imo doesn't really qualify as a carbon dosing system) and when I want to tinker I clean all the pumps instead. :D

[Proteus]

I was feeding acros with AA cv along with Reef roids.. I did find that po4 jumped significantly. I stopped with the feeding. Po4 has remained steady at 0.04.
I am of coarse still using zeo food which also contains aa.
I would like to continue feeding just need to find the proper amount to feed without contributing to nutrients.
When feeding reef roids or fauna zoo I won change filter sock a hour or two after so food didn't have a chance to break down I socks

Much appreciated Mindy and Denny

[Proteus]

Denny the only bacterial film I get is in return pump lines. Which is dislodged when I restart return pump after feeding.

[Myka]

You're welcome. :)

I was feeding acros with AA cv along with Reef roids.. I did find that po4 jumped significantly.

Why not put some ZeoLites back in, remove the GFO, and adjust the ZeoStart up and down to adjust to the amount of food you want to feed? Maybe this is your your plan anyway since you said you want to get back into it?

ZeoVit forums are a place to ask these questions too.

[Proteus]

I'm on the zeo forum! It was suggested to run a little gfo passively slowly removing a little more every week until the zeolites are colonized.

[reefwars]

I'm on the zeo forum! It was suggested to run a little gfo passively slowly removing a little more every week until the zeolites are colonized.

Yes because the bacteria by its self will be a slow drop in phosphates , after a while gfo may or may not be needed. Depends in your imports

[Myka]

I'm on the zeo forum! It was suggested to run a little gfo passively slowly removing a little more every week until the zeolites are colonized.

That's a good idea.