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Skimmin
02-09-2015, 08:11 AM
I was just wondering how many times everyone has for tank and sump turnover rates. I have a 6ft 300 gal. I'm running about 1000 gal per hour through my sump and with powerheads about 13000gph in the display tank which is approx 43 times total turn over. Im just wondering if I should increase the flow to my sump. Or stick with what I'm running. This is the first time I've ever run such a small amount through a sump and the biggest system I've owned. I think the water is not as clear as it could be and I'm just wondering if that could help.

CM125
02-09-2015, 03:01 PM
With head loss I push about 1400 through my sump on my 180 gallon. I felt that was on the lower end.

Aquattro
02-09-2015, 03:12 PM
I pushed about 800gph in my 180. I felt that was fine. My current 115g runs about 350gph, again, fine.
I like a longer dwell time for skimmer, carbon and heaters. Keeps noise near 0 and tank is crystal clear.

tytown
02-09-2015, 03:35 PM
I put 2500 GPH through my 400 and think its almost overkill. Biologically, I think your turnover should be fine.
If your tank is newish, give it a few months and see if it clears up, if not then maybe reconsider the idea of more sump turnover...

Aquattro
02-09-2015, 03:38 PM
Just use a filter sock.

Proteus
02-09-2015, 04:01 PM
I'm same as brad. Slower sump turn over for longer dwell time and more flow from power heads to keep detritus suspended

reefwars
02-09-2015, 04:18 PM
I can't see a benefit to faster turnover rate through a sump, if anyone has one please post it:)

reefwars
02-09-2015, 04:23 PM
Just use a filter sock.

And then put a fat ball of filter floss in the sock , it's a beautiful thing :)

Myka
02-10-2015, 03:33 AM
Usually, water being less clear has more to do with too much flow than too little. I think you're fine anywhere in the 3-8x turnover. You're on the low end, but I doubt that's what's causing the water problem. Is the problem particulates in the water, microbubbles in the water, or color in the water? For particulates, I would also suggest you add a filter sock. You don't have to have it going all the time. I just add it for 12 hours after doing my weekly water change. Zeovit's Coral Snow I find is also really good at clearing up particulates from the water when used regularly. Carbon is good for color in the water, and you have to look at plumbing for microbubbles.

Skimmin
02-10-2015, 06:17 AM
I've been running two 7" filter socks since day one. I'll have to give the filter floss a go. Good call Denny. Should make the socks last longer too. I get 2 to 3 days out of the two.

acepumping
02-10-2015, 06:30 AM
I was told by someone that 6x your tank rate is the range you want to be in..

SeaHorse_Fanatic
02-10-2015, 06:34 AM
I've always been a believer in slower flow through sump for longer dwelling time and greater flow provided by powerheads as well.:wink:

eli@fijireefrock.com
02-10-2015, 07:10 AM
I think I might be the one that likes the higher turnover,actually it all depends on why the high flow or the low flow,I could tell you why the high in my case.
1st its at low end 7000glns/hr turnover that is about 17 times (as my main display at roughly 400glns)
Running that in conjunction with 2 X Jebao WP60 one on either side to give me waves of almost 2" high from top to bottom of the tank with the turnover outlet location near one and enhances the flow throughout the tank leaving no room for dead spot in any section of my tank.
I run 2 frag tanks and 3 sumps that are all fed and split at different flow rate directly from my overflow box (so to say one pump runs flow throughout my entire system) that gives me dwelling time for each tank and sumps (one sump 5 foot loaded with rubble and act as criptic) another strictly for my carbon and skimmer, one that holds the water and removes all the crud from the water line and the last for filter floss that runs 24hr prior to water changes and back to the main tank.

Call me old school or crazy but it worked for me in years with no issues and I believe if it isn't broke why fix it.
Another belief of mine is that everyones main tank is loaded with fish, fish poop, mixed corals,coral slime and all types of bacteria and to top things high lighting to promote growth in all aspect why leave the water on low turnover when you can keep it cleaner with other means through the sump.(skimmer,carbon,floss,maybe GFO,socks,...)
I have seen tanks with low turnover maybe 5-7 times with more problems than not.

reefwars
02-10-2015, 02:46 PM
Call me old school or crazy but it worked for me in years with no issues and I believe if it isn't broke why fix it.
Another belief of mine is that everyones main tank is loaded with fish, fish poop, mixed corals,coral slime and all types of bacteria and to top things high lighting to promote growth in all aspect why leave the water on low turnover when you can keep it cleaner with other means through the sump.(skimmer,carbon,floss,maybe GFO,socks,...)
I have seen tanks with low turnover maybe 5-7 times with more problems than not.



The idea of the turnover rate is that a protein skimmer has a pump that draws water at a set speed , the pump has a rating which means it can only draw so much water ever , so pushing water past the skimmer faster then it can draw only makes the skimmer less efficient not skim more water. Skimmer pumps don't pull that kind of wat and lucky to be a fraction of that. So what we intended to remove simpy goes back to display :)

Now if a guy says i want to run more water through my sump say for more water to pass through the filter floss or socks then fine......but I would suggest more filtration in the way of more floss or double socks (yes you can double socks) vs more water.

Having water flow by heaters with less contact time will allow heaters to work harder as well thus having them run more ( a stagnant pool wil warm faster then a flowing river)

I dont see how pushing more water through the sump would clean any faster than pushing less wat would.


There's a good article on advanced aquarist I'll see if I can dig up that talks about turnover rates.

So does this mean a tank will have issues or even be unsuccessful .....no of course not but it's like buying a skimmer for a 100g system that's rated to 125g vs buying one rated for 175g ......might not make a huge diff but nothing wrong with getting the most bang for your buck right?

When we talk about medias that bind then yes more water through the phosphate reactor will result in more efficiency and same for carbon , how ever most people with larger tanks aren't using gravity to feed there gfo or carbon.

reefwars
02-10-2015, 02:49 PM
I was told by someone that 6x your tank rate is the range you want to be in..

This is also what I tell people , it comes from the fact that most skimmer on the market use similar sized pumps :) obviously everyone has slightly different sizes but overall not to drastic in diff so a ballpark figure of around 6x was developed. This was beat to death on RC and the result was the above number:)

MitchM
03-01-2015, 09:29 PM
I'm on the lower end of the scale, 2X turnover.
I don't understand why people are talking about dwell time in a skimmer and sump turnover rate. They're 2 different things aren't they?

Turnover rate is what your sump return pump is running at and dwell time has to do with the height and water throughput of your protein skimmer. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I prefer as low of a sump turnover rate as possible, while maintaining healthy water parameters in the display tank. I actively feed my corals and don't like the idea of having the food filtered out soon after I add it.
I keep on top of the tank parameters by measuring phosphorus and nitrate levels, weekly for now.

Aquattro
03-01-2015, 10:34 PM
I don't understand why people are talking about dwell time in a skimmer and sump turnover rate. They're 2 different things aren't they?


Dwell time in sump near skimmer, vs dwell time of contact in skimmer. Not sure it matters, dwell vs turnover in the big scheme of things, but lower sump turnover is silent for me, so I go with it :)

MitchM
03-01-2015, 10:46 PM
Yes, dead silent for me too. Close to the bed so major consideration.

To me a skimmer is just another type of filter that gets it's feed from the sump.
I also use a 10 micron sock for Fozdown and a 200 micron sock from the display tank overflow.
That's it.

Skimmin
03-02-2015, 12:47 AM
Yah I have a recirc skimmer so Im not worried about my skimmer at all. At this point my dt is maintaining the same temperature as my sump so I feel I have enough flow. I would just like a little more to help with clarity a little which is just more flow through my filter socks. Either way Im gonna leave it for now and if the tank runs well with no problem algae or nitrates I'm not gonna worry about it. I do have so great pod and macro growth in my fuge. Not sure if thats due to low flow though.

Aquattro
03-02-2015, 03:20 AM
if the tank runs well

that there is the perfect reason to leave things alone!! :razz: