Roommate's friend's kid scratched the hell out of my tank. Must vent before I scream.

[asylumdown]

I was out of town all week. My roommate's had a bunch of friends over for for the super bowl. One set brought their 2 year old who is obsessed with using the magnet to wipe the glass.

Every time he's here I stop him from plowing it through the sand because the glass is starphire. Every time he's here, I explicitly tell his parents and my roommate why he needs to keep the magnet out of the sand.

I didn't get home until a couple of hours ago. The kid was here all day. 4 feet of the bottom 6 inches of my tank's dining room side viewing pane looks like it's been keyed. Aggressively. He did more damage to my glass in one afternoon than in 2.5 years of the abuse I've subjected it to.

I am posting this here in an attempt to calm myself enough to be able to have a calm conversation with my roommates about this.

[ronau]

That would set me off.

They would be out and if they put down a damage deposit., it would be considered spent to replace the tank.

[Myka]

Ugh...I feel for you man. I would be having a fit. A loud fit. Maybe it's time to find a new roomie? Or keep the cleaner magnet out of the tank? Pomatoceros shells tend to grow on the magnet and scratch the glass anyway.

[asylumdown]

Replacing the box itself would require re-doing several thousand dollars in custom finishing carpentry. I'm going to have to just learn to live with them.

Thankfully they are low down, but as soon as algae starts growing in them you're going to be able to see them from across the house.

[Slyguy00]

I would be asking them to replace it, and if they didn't they would not be welcome back. That is so brutal, sorry to hear.

[asylumdown]

Ugh...I feel for you man. I would be having a fit. A loud fit. Maybe it's time to find a new roomie? Or keep the cleaner magnet out of the tank? Pomatoceros shells tend to grow on the magnet and scratch the glass anyway.

yah, they're normally kept right at the water line, with about the top third out of water, and I rotate the side that's above the water every day to keep the accumulation of life off of them. I also soak them in vinegar a couple of times a month, but I definitely have a couple of scratches here and there from the shells that I didn't notice in time. Nothing compared to what a 2 year old did in 5 minutes. A two year old who can only reach the glass when being held up by an adult who knows better.

[asylumdown]

Does anyone know if scratches can be polished out of glass? Part of my 2015 tank plan is a major re-do of the main display so I can get rid of my internal overflows and all the monti-caps that are sucking up an entire box of baking soda's worth of alkalinity every week. I will have to get the display completely empty to do it.

[ronau]

It can be done, have a look in The Grizz's build thread. I believe he buffed out a scratch on his starphire panel.

[H2o2]

Deep Deep breath as like the Super ball game who made the call to go for a pass hope we can all come up with ideas to help u through this so first one maybe deep sand bed on that side or design a little low shallow rock shelf to hide the worst . But the worst is u have asked them before Sorry

[kamloops_reefer]

time to get a new tank and make the room mate pay for a realistic replacement. its like some parent not watching their kid outside while they scrub your immaculate black car with a sponge that keeps falling into sand.

its not just an "ooops sorry" - and even worse when you've been clear about it. no patience for people with no respect or ****ty parenting capabilities when it comes to making sure their kids learn respect"

[trilinearmipmap]

Take photos

Then small claims court

[brotherd]

time to get a new tank and make the room mate pay for a realistic replacement. its like some parent not watching their kid outside while they scrub your immaculate black car with a sponge that keeps falling into sand.

its not just an "ooops sorry" - and even worse when you've been clear about it. no patience for people with no respect or ****ty parenting capabilities when it comes to making sure their kids learn respect"

+1 kids will be kids but if this was an issue before. And it still happened. I hope they give you the good cc #

[brotherd]

For what it's worth, we inevitably have kids of all ages over from time to time, sometimes when I'm at work or out of town which causes me concern . I've never encountered your situation. I would be choked too.

[lastlight]

I'd be equally as angry with the roommate. If he wants friends over they're his responsibility. And this has been brought up before! I'm getting angry here myself! I'd have totally flipped out youre a better friend than I am.

I had jay (built my 225) come over with his pro polishing machine. Cerium oxide etc. he could make the scratches in the 97 I bought off him better but not gone. It creates thinner parts in the glass which can then start to create distortions. Sounds like you'd have to thin down a lot of glass

[andestang]

I can relate to this. Some old timers here might remember when I lost my whole tank from when some kid(s) dumped some kind of substance into my tank while guests were over and lost everything. Never did receive any kind of compensation over it except for some kind help from a few members here to help clean it up. Lots of should of, could of done this or that from both sides when you share a space with someone. Hope all works out for you.

[jason604]

Awe man seems like u been having a lot of bad luck with ur tank lately. Yea take them to small claims court

[Myka]

time to get a new tank and make the room mate pay for a realistic replacement. its like some parent not watching their kid outside while they scrub your immaculate black car with a sponge that keeps falling into sand.

I didn't think of it that way, that's a good point. You can invite the parents over to help you move the new tank in and transfer it all too so they understand the size of the problem. Then you can send them a bill 6 months later for the livestock you lost in the move. So many people think "oh it's just a fish tank". Yep, just a fish tank until you have to pay for it. ;)

[ronau]

I can relate to this. Some old timers here might remember when I lost my whole tank from when some kid(s) dumped some kind of substance into my tank while guests were over and lost everything. Never did receive any kind of compensation over it except for some kind help from a few members here to help clean it up. Lots of should of, could of done this or that from both sides when you share a space with someone. Hope all works out for you.

That's always a worry I have.

I also keep freshwater dwarf shrimp and some of the stores in Japan let you choose and net your own but I guess it's expected when you're paying $500 for a 1/2" shrimp. If I were the shop owners I would make people scrub up to their elbows before they got a net. It would be tragic if they contaminated a tank with hundreds of these shrimp.

[jason604]

That's always a worry I have.

I also keep freshwater dwarf shrimp and some of the stores in Japan let you choose and net your own but I guess it's expected when you're paying $500 for a 1/2" shrimp. If I were the shop owners I would make people scrub up to their elbows before they got a net. It would be tragic if they contaminated a tank with hundreds of these shrimp.

What kind of shrimp costs $500 each or is this super exaggerated.

[ronau]

What kind of shrimp costs $500 each or is this super exaggerated.

Pure Line Crystal shrimp and no, $500 in under what they can go for. The top quality shrimp go to auctions and fetch over $1500. Not very common here as there is no market for them. I'm a shrimp freak and the most I would pay would be $300 - $400.

[daplatapus]

Sorry to hear of the tank woes, that sucks. My wife babysits a 3 year old every other Thursday and I'm always worried about mine.

[Seriak]

Man, I can't imagine what I would do. I can't even keep my scraper in my tank as my son gets a little too excited when he sees me using it. Here is hoping they do the right thing.

[Simons]

I you have warned the parents and the roommate of the dangers of using the magnet, which I have no reason to doubt that you did not; then the parents are on the hook for the entire bill. There is no wiggle room and no excuses, parents are responsible for the actions of their underage children.

I see this as not only very disrespectful that a parent would let their kid touch anything like that that wasn't theirs, but also completely and entirely on the hook for it's repair and whatever that would involve. I get pretty upset over this kind of stuff because IMHO it appears that a large number of parents just don't take it seriously enough.

While you are now stuck with 'living with it' as you say just lets the parents off the hook. I would be calling and telling them the seriousness of the issue and be prepared for a significant bill. I had a similar issue years ago (not with a fish tank) where my property was damaged by some kids after repeated warnings to the parents, they refused to pay for the damage so I filed a police report for vandalism. You should see how fast their attitude changed when the cops showed up at there door and they paid up or there kid was going to be charged.

[Dearth]

That sucks....


My nieces and my neighbours kid who looks after my tank when I am out of town all understand the rules and are respectful of my tank unfortunately the adults are not so much and on more than one occasion I have seen my nieces give my brother crap for doing something silly with the tank.

I guess I have been lucky that way

[lastlight]

I guess I have been lucky that way

same here. i've had kien watch my tank on a number of occasions and while he has to reach up pretty high on my kids' old bathroom stool to try and get food over the top of the tank, i make sure to not leave any magnets around for him to play with.

[Seriak]

same here. i've had kien watch my tank on a number of occasions and while he has to reach up pretty high on my kids' old bathroom stool to try and get food over the top of the tank, i make sure to not leave any magnets around for him to play with.

:)

[CM125]

This is why I don't trust anyone with my tank

[The Grizz]

Hey Adam that is a real **** off when that happens but the scratches can be polished out if they are not to deep. I used cerium oxide and a glass polishing bonnet to remove several scratches out of my glass on my 300 before i put it together. It take some work and patients but can be done.

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Take lots of photographs that show the sections that are all scratched up. Also, place a ruler on the stand to show that it would require an adult holding up the toddler for him to reach the magnet cleaner. Then go see the parents and explain that unless they cover your replacement costs, you will be filing charges against them and their kid for damage to your property. This sucks that some adults are just so irresponsible and if they have been warned several times, then they have no excuse.

[gobytron]

The parents need to be taught a lesson.

they obviously have no respect for other peoples property and have passed that lack onto their kid.

entertaining their child (or keeping it entertained so they can rest easy and just enjoy the game) obviously was held in a higher regard than caring what happened to your tank.

That sense of entitlement would have me losing my ****.

Honestly....

Kids will be kids?

Only if their parents let them.


You should get all their contact info from your roommate. If they won't pay. the responsibility should fall on your roommate.

I would even consider calling the police and reporting destruction of private property just so you have record.

[IanWR]

Wow I just checked Alberta small claims limits, expecting it to be less than replacement. It was raised to 50k!!! Well, if the responsible parties have an assets, this maybe worth it to pursue. They may only award depreciated value, and who knows what that would be. Your tank cost x, it's y years old, therefor undamaged it's worth z. You claim damages, they'll say there were already some scratches, judge will split the diff, you'll win some percentage of z.

I wonder if a better route might be a claim through homeowners insurance, and let the insurance company go after them to recover their loss.

[Aquattro]

Realistically, unless they own up or you have it on camera, you can't prove who did it. Were there others in the house at the time? Maybe they did it. Maybe roomie was drunk and did it and it passing the buck. Maybe the pizza delivery guy did it.
You can't stand in front of a judge and tell them that you're absolutely pretty darn sure it was one of more of someone's kids. If they did, prove it. Can't prove it, then not happening. Will roomie testify against his buddies?

Unless they admit it, it's between you and roomie and/or house insurance.

[gobytron]

Realistically, unless they own up or you have it on camera, you can't prove who did it. Were there others in the house at the time? Maybe they did it. Maybe roomie was drunk and did it and it passing the buck. Maybe the pizza delivery guy did it.
You can't stand in front of a judge and tell them that you're absolutely pretty darn sure it was one of more of someone's kids. If they did, prove it. Can't prove it, then not happening. Will roomie testify against his buddies?

Unless they admit it, it's between you and roomie and/or house insurance.

Except if it went to court, ever single person there would be subpoena'd and have to say what happened under oath...

The question isn't whether they would testify, as witnesses to a crime, they would have no choice.

The question is whether you think your roomie likes these people enough to commit perjury and lie about it.

The judge could easily put the responsibility on everyone in attendance if nobody fesses up.

[Aquattro]

Ok, let's say that happens. Let's even go so far as the parents admit it and drop off a brand new tank in the driveway. Then what?? I just reviewed the build thread :) No easy task to replace that tank, house critters and reassemble. It would be months before it looked "normal" again, the work would be several full days, and that's just gonna suck. No happy ending to this, unless you can polish most out in the time you can actually keep a fully stocked tank drained.

[gobytron]

Even so.

SOME compensation is in order.

Even if its not convenient for everyone.

To me, a tank that is horribly scratched in a noticeable way would totally ruin a tank anyways.

I would enjoy it just about as much as i would while it was being rebuilt.

[Aquattro]

Ya, I think someone should pay for damages, but the whole things suck all around!

[Dearth]

Having gone through small claims court to recoup losses before it is not as clear cut or as easy as it seems (it might of changed since I was in it 15 years ago)

You first require proof of incident
You must prove that xx person(s) were there or involved
You must give damages cost
There is no guarantee the courts will help
It can take up to a year for your case to be heard in small claims court
Lawyers are a must unless your knowledgable in legalese

Hate to say it it's much easier to settle out of court and move on with life

[gobytron]

Having gone through small claims court to recoup losses before it is not as clear cut or as easy as it seems (it might of changed since I was in it 15 years ago)

You first require proof of incident
You must prove that xx person(s) were there or involved
You must give damages cost
There is no guarantee the courts will help
It can take up to a year for your case to be heard in small claims court
Lawyers are a must unless your knowledgable in legalese

Hate to say it it's much easier to settle out of court and move on with life

isn't that always the case when its possible?

Why would anyone go to court if they didn't have to?

[mikellini]

Damn starphire glass haha. That's all I could think when I read it.

[davej]

Agree with going the insurance route. Court would be expensive and hard to prove who actually did it.

[acanthurus]

following this thread, interested on the outcome. sorry about the damages, made me mad to read it.

[asylumdown]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I took a full day to cool off and watched several YouTube videos on buffing out scratches in glass before I brought it up. Most of them can probably be removed or drastically improved with the Cerium stuff Grizz mentioned.

In the grand scheme of things, I value these relationships a whole lot more than I value the tank, and everyone was suuuuuuuper apologetic and felt awful. They thought they were being careful enough and had no idea what was happening. My roommate insisted on paying for whatever materials were necessary to get the scratches out.

Replacing the tank is off the table - if I'm going to go so far as to pull it out of the wall I'm definitely not putting one back in - the space is perfectly sized for a deep closet and that's what it would become. This thing has given me enough heart ache in the last year for me to probably not miss it much.

This is one more reason to do the re-do I've been wanting for the last 6 months or so.

In order to make myself feel better and try and get excited about it again, I picked up three new fish today. First new additions in at least a year. Got a small Copper Band and two juvenile/female christmas wrasses (the Halichoeres kind, not the Thalasoma kind). Would have liked to buy three but it's all he had.

The copper band is tiny, but plump, and was plucking mysis right out of my fingers 2 hours after going in to quarantine, and the two wrasses are passed out in a bowl of sand I put in the QT tank after what must have been days of not sleeping in the bare-bottom tank at the store. They make me care about the scratches a little less.

[e46er]

Except if it went to court, ever single person there would be subpoena'd and have to say what happened under oath...

The question isn't whether they would testify, as witnesses to a crime, they would have no choice.

The question is whether you think your roomie likes these people enough to commit perjury and lie about it.

The judge could easily put the responsibility on everyone in attendance if nobody fesses up.

you give people too much credit for being honest and able to accept responsibilty.

all roommate has to say is I dont know what happened. shy of a video of roommate saying "oh crap its scratched" even if he was looking in the tank with the kid you cant prove neglience. or for that matter that without dated pictures of the tank taken as your walknig out the door the damage wasnt done by you.

roommates easiest way out without picking sides is to say he was drinking (im assuming at a superbowl party he was) and it voids his credibility.

I feel bad for you, everyone that comes to my house always grabs the damn magnet regardless how many times they have been told.

Im not sure exactly how I would handle the situation all I know is I'd blow a gasket.

[lastlight]

Adam you're the calmest one here. You're sorta killing our momentum lol. You punched SOMEONE right?

[Aquattro]

You punched SOMEONE right?

That would have been my first response :)

[rishu_pepper]

The OP is a bigger man than 95% of the world. Good on you for keeping your priorities straight. Tanks are replaceable (if expensive!) but friendships are priceless. Big thumbs up for you. :biggrin:

[ensquire]

Not sure if this will work for your tank, But I have Tunze Care Magnets in all my tanks and I am impressed by the quality design. They can be left in the tank, and you would have to work really hard to scratch a tank with one. They also do a great job on the glass which is another plus :)
I know J%L sells them. Not sure if anyone in Calgary sells them.

http://reefbuilders.com/2014/06/05/tunze-care-magnet-designed-simple-brilliance/

[lockrookie]

I have been following this without comment and I will say good on you shrimp happens.

If I may make a slight suggestion for you tho as most know scratches are our worst nemesis but maybe have a custom decal made up for the worst of the lower area a cross the bottom of the tank to make it look sandy or blend in like a wood trim to match your decor. Scratches will still be there but behind the decal

Just a thought.

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

The OP is a bigger man than 95% of the world. Good on you for keeping your priorities straight. Tanks are replaceable (if expensive!) but friendships are priceless. Big thumbs up for you. :biggrin:

Agreed. Okay Canreef lynch mob, we can all put away our torches and hanging ropes and go look at our tanks again under blue LED. Ahhhhhhh.:wink:

[mike31154]

Unfortunate, but perhaps a lesson learned. May not be feasible or convenient for folks with in wall tanks that are not easily accessible, but personally the only time my cleaning magnet is in the tank, is when I'm using it. Once done, the thing is outta there. Main reason for me is I kind of think the abrasive side loses much of it's cleaning capability by being squished against the glass 24/7/365. Also fortunate in that my daughter & son in law take care of things when I'm away for more than a few days. Daughter was very distraught on one occasion when she broke off a piece of coral that had grown too close to the glass with the magnet. Told her not to worry, it happens, have done it myself. Will grow back, there are worse things that could happen to my house while I'm gone! Scratched glass definitely sucks though, I can relate. Maybe another solution would be to raise the sand bed a bit to cover the scratched areas?

[lastlight]

the only time my cleaning magnet is in the tank, is when I'm using it. Once done, the thing is outta there.]

i do this and actually thought that was what the majority of people did.

[Dearth]

i do this and actually thought that was what the majority of people did.

I used to but got lazy plus just about everything in my tank has or currently is using my magnets as a perch snails, crabs, blennies, clownfish and sea cucumbers have all used it as a perch

[gobytron]

Agree with going the insurance route. Court would be expensive and hard to prove who actually did it.

provided you have insurance and that your insurance covers something like this.

You should avoid court if possible, for sure...always.

it's basically there as a last resort.

[Delphinus]

Just read this. Ouch.

Kudos to you for your attitude, I think I would be the same way - I generally value relationships over things as well, but still would be majorly bummed about it.

I can really relate to where you are at the moment. I too look at my 280g inwall tank, and get irritated by the internal overflows (for one) - such an irritating story too about why this tank has internal overflows rather than an external (short version is the tank builder didn't want to do it because he's lazy, and apparently I'm not very good at arguments or persuasion - just ask my kids and actually I'm just sort of starting to get angry now so maybe Immachangethesubjectnowmmmmk). Anyhow. It might be better to consider replacing the glass box at some point, if staying in the hobby is something you decide to do). Anyhow, I can relate, I have some major decisions to make myself and I'm sort of torn between the options. 2015 could be an interesting year.

Good luck whatever you decide.

[gobytron]

Just read this. Ouch.

Kudos to you for your attitude, I think I would be the same way - I generally value relationships over things as well, but still would be majorly bummed about it.

I can really relate to where you are at the moment. I too look at my 280g inwall tank, and get irritated by the internal overflows (for one) - such an irritating story too about why this tank has internal overflows rather than an external (short version is the tank builder didn't want to do it because he's lazy, and apparently I'm not very good at arguments or persuasion - just ask my kids and actually I'm just sort of starting to get angry now so maybe Immachangethesubjectnowmmmmk). Anyhow. It might be better to consider replacing the glass box at some point, if staying in the hobby is something you decide to do). Anyhow, I can relate, I have some major decisions to make myself and I'm sort of torn between the options. 2015 could be an interesting year.

Good luck whatever you decide.


I guess just a case of putting your relationship with your tank builder before your satisfaction with their work on your tank...?

[Delphinus]

Good point :) Yeah, it's one of those "I wish I had stood my ground" moments now, that's for sure.

[shiftline]

That really sucks. How about a really deep sandbed?! It would hide the scratches and prevent algae. Although another 6" may be a little overkill.

[gregzz4]

In order to make myself feel better and try and get excited about it again, I picked up three new fish today. First new additions in at least a year
I sometimes feel better about my tank woes when I get new fishies :biggrin:

Hope you keep it up :hug:

[asylumdown]

Just read this. Ouch.

Kudos to you for your attitude, I think I would be the same way - I generally value relationships over things as well, but still would be majorly bummed about it.

To put it in context, the mother of the child in question at one point very seriously offered to be a surrogate for my partner and I. My roommate, who introduced us, and her fiancé are more like family members that by some strange accident happened to be born to different family. This is why I directed the rage here, instead of at them lol.

I can really relate to where you are at the moment. I too look at my 280g inwall tank, and get irritated by the internal overflows (for one) - such an irritating story too about why this tank has internal overflows rather than an external (short version is the tank builder didn't want to do it because he's lazy, and apparently I'm not very good at arguments or persuasion - just ask my kids and actually I'm just sort of starting to get angry now so maybe Immachangethesubjectnowmmmmk). Anyhow. It might be better to consider replacing the glass box at some point, if staying in the hobby is something you decide to do). Anyhow, I can relate, I have some major decisions to make myself and I'm sort of torn between the options. 2015 could be an interesting year.

Good luck whatever you decide.

If I keep this tank, the internal overflows are going. I can't stand them. More than anything else about the tank I wish I had never done them. I can say with certainty that if the box comes out of the wall, it's not going back in (both my partner and I have at times lost patience with how much of my time and money this thing consumes), but if I'm not involving a finishing carpenter, draining it and re-doing the insides are something I'd consider.

I a) want to get rid of 95% of the monitpora capricornis in the tank, b) want to buff out these scratches, c) get rid of the internal overflows and replace them with a coast to coast, and d) *may* want to nuke all my rocks to get rid of valonia, caulerpa, and aiptasia once and for all, but my rocks are soooooooo lush with sponges, wild mussels (like legit tiny muscles/clam/oyster things that seem to be reproducing in my tank), coraline and all sorts of other amazing things it might not be worth it.

Lots to do that will be lots of fun, but yah... if it gets to the point of removing the box from the wall altogether, I'll probably be out of the hobby for a few years.

[asylumdown]

Not sure if this will work for your tank, But I have Tunze Care Magnets in all my tanks and I am impressed by the quality design. They can be left in the tank, and you would have to work really hard to scratch a tank with one. They also do a great job on the glass which is another plus :)
I know J%L sells them. Not sure if anyone in Calgary sells them.

http://reefbuilders.com/2014/06/05/tunze-care-magnet-designed-simple-brilliance/

This is exactly my plan. If Big Al's or Pisces doesn't carry them (going to check on the weekend) I'm going to order them.

Adam you're the calmest one here. You're sorta killing our momentum lol. You punched SOMEONE right?

lol I haven't punched someone since high school. I did something far more productive... I bought more fish!

Unfortunate, but perhaps a lesson learned. May not be feasible or convenient for folks with in wall tanks that are not easily accessible, but personally the only time my cleaning magnet is in the tank, is when I'm using it. Maybe another solution would be to raise the sand bed a bit to cover the scratched areas?

I tried that for a while, but no dice. My tank has Euro-bracing and it's already so tall (my stand is extra high so my 6'4 partner didn't have to bend down to look at it) I can barely put my fingers in the water. Trying to remove and replace the wet side of the magnet when I can't reach under the euro-bracing without a ladder lasted all of 3 days when I first set it up.

And sadly, I'd need a very deep sand bed to cover these babies up. But they are well below eye level, so I can sort of pretend they're not there by keeping my eyes up lol.