HQI Lighting?

[bluetang]

Hi folks, Ive never really paid atention to this type of lighting and other threads that have mentioned it before mainly because I was content with the lghting I have.
Well the time has come and I'm scoping out Halide options. :redface: If you dont mind what is the diference between HQI and regular metal halide lighting. What are the output comparisons?
thanks
rob

[Rick_B]

HQI will put out approx. 1.6 times the candle power of a mogul halide, and the colour spectrum will not fade as fast as a mogul will. The HQI should however be mounted no closer to the tank than 9-12 inches. This makes it difficult if you like canopies. Look for retrofit units if you have a canopy, they will save you $$. I have not seen HQI in retro form.

Rick

[StirCrazy]

HQI will put out approx. 1.6 times the candle power of a mogul halide, and the colour spectrum will not fade as fast as a mogul will.

Rick

not true at all, a good mogal bulb on a HQI ballast will put out more light than a DE bulb over a given area and be just as intense. as for colour you would be pretty hard pressed to notice a difference in longevity also as long as they are on the same ballast.


The HQI should however be mounted no closer to the tank than 9-12 inches.

Rick

you can mount them as close as any other MH bulb, I have been running my Mogal bulbs on HQI ballast 5 to 6" above the water for over 2 years now. it depends on weather you have a lot of splashs and such in your tank.

the only advantage the DE has over a Mogal (SE) is that it is smaller and comes in a housing so you can actualy mount it lower to the water as it has a protective glass on the housing.

as for retrofit kits yes there are lots out there doe DE bulbs you buy the minni pendant and mount it inside the canopy (going to need about 12" of space between the water and the top of the canopy as they are aprox 6" tall, for running a SE bulb on a HQI ballast you can use what ever socket and reflector kit you like and just buy bare ballast and make your own case or buy a PFO ballast already cased and plug them in.

Steve

[Rick_B]

Steve, you are assuming that everyone reading knows enough about lighting to switch ballasts around. What I said is true for bulbs with matched ballasts but you are correct if you mix up the ballasts as your post reads. Most suppliers and retailers will only supply matched equipment, switching ballasts requires a more in depth knowledge and usally special orders.

Rick

[StirCrazy]

PFO makes HQI ballasts with quick connects, they connect to the mogal PFO retrofit kits also.

no I didn't assume anything. Also any German mogal bulb is actually the right specks to be called an HQI bulb.

there are SE HQI bulbs and DE HQI bulbs, and while we are on the topic only the ballast can really be called HQI as the only real HQI bulb is made by Sylvania for the movie industry and burns at 5600K intensely (might be a couple other color temps available now but the cost would be out of this world for us.)

Steve

[Rick_B]

I have always been under the impression that an "HQI" term is a double ended metal halide designed to run on an M80 ballast (for a 250W). A "mogul" style metal halide screws in to the socket and runs on an M58 ballast (for a 250W). Any brand of halide system can come with quick connects (PFO, Hamilton, Ice Cap) so long as they are rated at 600V. As for the bulbs, DE, SE style terms are new to me. Can you explain these terms? Are we just talking about the same thing using different terms?
Rick

[StirCrazy]

HQI deals with the composition of the bulb rather than the shape of the bulb.

here is a HQI description from Sylvania
"SYLVANIA HQI® metal halide lamps combine excellent
brightness, long life and high CRI in a compact package
for optimal lamp performance.
The HQI family of metal halide lamps is manufactured with
the addition of rare earth metal halides to improve color
rendering and luminous efficacy. With their compact size
and very short arc discharge length, these lamps come very
close to being a point source of light allowing luminary
manufacturers to design highly efficient fixtures. The very
high color rendering, white light, compact size, long life and
high efficacy make these lamps ideal for replacing tungsten
halogen in certain retail applications."

here is some More on the physical design

"• Excellent CRI, up to 93
• High luminous efficacy
• Available in warm white and cool white correlated
color temperature
• Compact single ended or double ended design for
optimal fixture efficiency
• Low thermal output
• Long life
• Double-ended contacts allow for exact
fixture alignment
• Operate in enclosed fixtures
• UV-Stop outer jacket"

Now where the confusion comes in is that every tom dick and harry has called DE bulbs (double ended) HQI bulbs which is kinda true, they are one form of HQI bulb but not the only one, you can get them in PAR formats and SE (single ended) mogal isn't really a proper term as it only describes the north American standard size socket. if you check a Ushio or BLV or AB SE bulb closely it doesn't fit perfectly into the mogal sockets and there is an actual # for a different screw in socket that is slightly different than a mogal size that fits them properly.

the difference is that the HQI ballast (ANSI M80) actually mimics European specs so it drives all the bulbs based on European design better than the north American standard. I have found that my SE AB's burned about 30 to 40% more intense on the M80 ballast and also lasted about 1.5 times longer. and even at a time of 2 years My AB bulbs still put out more PAR than a brand new SA 250 watt bulb on the same ballast (it was close though :mrgreen: )

the main problem comes in as the industry is making them out to be different from each other so they can sell you new reflectors and bulbs as an upgrade. In my opinion going to a M80 ballast is an upgrade but switching to DE is a down grade unless you have a shallow narrow tank as they are limited in the foot print they can cover. a SE bulb on an HQI ballast will be limited only by the design of the reflector as there increased size and length allow it to illuminate a larger area.

Steve

[Aquattro]

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why we let Steve answer the lighting questions!! :mrgreen:

[Doug]

:mrgreen:

[bluetang]

Wow...I'm impressed... Can you go over that again? :biggrin:

[jgoldsney]

Hmmmmm now you have me thinking....I hate it when that happens.

[LostMind]

OK, one question then:

my pfo 400w mh ballast (tar style, $240) is not going to run my $150, 10k ushio bulbs as effectively as the pfo 400w mh ballast (hqi style, $380) will?

Also, I remember reading that the 250w DE pendants will put out more light for less wattage (ie, more light for less hydro bucks) then my tar style ballast and SE mogul bulbs. I was honestly considerging dropping my SE bulb setup for the 250w DE pendants (I am also having problems getting the bulbs in my current setup to fire every morning. I think the socket sucks)

Now, to actually add something to the thread, I am gonna go find the lighting thread on RC and link it :)

[Delphinus]

my pfo 400w mh ballast (tar style, $240) is not going to run my $150, 10k ushio bulbs as effectively as the pfo 400w mh ballast (hqi style, $380) will?


Different story here though. The "HQI" ballast that Steve refers to is only available in 250W. There is no "HQI" equivalent for 400W, what we have here is another place the term is used but not really correctly. The "HQI" in the 400W ballasts is a "Son Agro" ballast for sodium lamps that happens to work for halides. It is actually 430W not 400W so it overdrives your lamps ever so slightly. So .. they'll burn brighter, yes, but "more effective" or "less effective" is a subjective, qualitative call ... if by "more effective" you mean "brighter" then yes it's more effective but there has to be a downside somewhere, shorter bulb lifespan perhaps (also open to debate? .. not sure).


Also, I remember reading that the 250w DE pendants will put out more light for less wattage (ie, more light for less hydro bucks) then my tar style ballast and SE mogul bulbs. I was honestly considerging dropping my SE bulb setup for the 250w DE pendants (I am also having problems getting the bulbs in my current setup to fire every morning. I think the socket sucks)

I think this is also open to some debate. It probably depends a great deal on the reflector you use. Personally, I think that average 250W DE's with an average reflector are probably as useful as an average 400W SE with an average reflector (except it takes 150W less to run). That's my unqualified, unquantified guess as an opinion... Meaning, probably if you look at different reflectors in different situations you may well get different results. But to me, given the choice, between running a bunch of 400's versus 250's .. I look at my powerbill and that's when I say I want to switch to DE's one day too .. just a matter of saving up some $$$ in the meantime.

[StirCrazy]

OK, one question then:

my pfo 400w mh ballast (tar style, $240) is not going to run my $150, 10k ushio bulbs as effectively as the pfo 400w mh ballast (hqi style, $380) will?

Also, I remember reading that the 250w DE pendants will put out more light for less wattage (ie, more light for less hydro bucks) then my tar style ballast and SE mogul bulbs. I was honestly considerging dropping my SE bulb setup for the 250w DE pendants (I am also having problems getting the bulbs in my current setup to fire every morning. I think the socket sucks)

Now, to actually add something to the thread, I am gonna go find the lighting thread on RC and link it :)

Tony answered your first one for me :mrgreen: the only real HQI are 70 watt, 150 watt and 250 watt. but I see there is a 400 watt HQI bulb by Sylvania now so I am going to look and see what they are using to drive it.

OK the second one. no :mrgreen: the test that showed the DE 250 watt bulbs putting out lots of light was flawed. they used the reflectors and the DE reflectors are smaller and able to concentrate more light in a focused area. all the bulbs they compared them against (SE types) had no reflector. so it was a bogus comparison. I did a test with SamW's DE in the pendant against my SE under my reflector, I got almost twice the output at 12". now this is also misleading as he was driving it with the Icecap ballast (which under drives MH as almost all electronic ballast do) and also for the fact that I believe my reflector had a higher reflectance value than SamW's. I want to do some direct comparisons in equal situations in the near future, but I have to buy a third HQI ballast first and build a test box where I can test them with out reflectors or shields.

I will put out a request for old bulbs of both DE and SE types (250 watt only) to test out put of aged bulbs also as a comparison. Also if someone is giving away or selling real cheep different ballasts I would like to get a hold of those also.

if you think back there was a 150 HQI test that Sanjay did showing it had more out put than a 400 watt Iwasaki, this was a factor of the reflector on the DE bulb only so yes you can get a very high output from a DE set up but it will only be focused over a small area not spread out like a SE bulbs will.

as for the more light for less wattage this is also false. if I hook up a DE bulb to my M80 ballast it will have the exact current draw as my SE bulb. as for less heat that is a factor of the pendant housing only nothing to do with the bulb and you can buy pendant housings for SE bulbs.

Steve