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Myka
01-11-2015, 03:28 PM
Has anyone tried out the Hanna calibration kits for the Hanna Checkers? Before I go ahead and order a couple, I'd like to hear if they seem to work ok.

I don't think my HI713 PO4 Checker is reading accurately, so I would like to confirm, and I may as well check my HI755 Alkalinity Checker while I'm at it.

Reef Pilot
01-11-2015, 04:43 PM
I don't think my HI713 PO4 Checker is reading accurately, so I would like to confirm, and I may as well check my HI755 Alkalinity Checker while I'm at it.
Does your 3:00 minute timer come on after pressing C2?

DSlater
01-11-2015, 06:03 PM
Do you feel your PO4 readings are high, low, or just inaccurate?

My HI713 always gave higher readings but consistent so I never really questioned. Finally checked against another kit and it was reading way high. Tried my next box of reagent and everything tested at 0.00ppm. Even tap water and rejected water from RODI.

I went back to Hanna support with a couple questions and this was their response. Not designed for salt water and non-repairable.

"Hello,
The HI 713 is not designed to test salt water but fresh water.
I’m not sure what kind of readings should be expected with RO/DI water, but if the readings are constantly high even with fresh water, you might look at cuvet condition or dirt in the optical cell that could be interfering.
It would be also possible to test the instrument with HI 713-11 which is a CalCheck standard kit used to test the accuracy of the instrument. Have you tried another lot of reagents to see if it would make a difference?

As the warranty on these Checkers is 6 months, this meter could not be covered under warranty, and in the case it would really be faulty, such instruments are not repairable and simply needs to be replaced.

Regards

François Coulombe
Spécialiste au support technique / Technical support specialist
Hanna Instruments Canada Inc.
1-800-842-6629"

Myka
01-11-2015, 06:23 PM
Does your 3:00 minute timer come on after pressing C2?

Yes.

Do you feel your PO4 readings are high, low, or just inaccurate?

The readings are unusually low.

"Hello,
The HI 713 is not designed to test salt water but fresh water.

Well that is certainly interesting. I checked on various online vendors and every vendor I checked listed the HI713 as marine and freshwater. I checked the Hanna Instruments website and indeed there is no mention of marine use where the HI736 phosphorus checker does mention marine use. That is something else altogether! :frusty:

DSlater
01-11-2015, 06:56 PM
I went back to Hanna and asked about the marine use, should hear tomorrow.

The reagent lot that was giving me 0.00 readings on everything (salt and fresh) was Lot #H075. Others people have no issues with this lot# though.

Reef Pilot
01-11-2015, 07:36 PM
Do you feel your PO4 readings are high, low, or just inaccurate?

My HI713 always gave higher readings but consistent so I never really questioned. Finally checked against another kit and it was reading way high. Tried my next box of reagent and everything tested at 0.00ppm. Even tap water and rejected water from RODI.

The color test kits will always read zero before the Hanna. They are simply not as accurate at the ultra low range. That's why I got the Hanna.

Some have had difficulties getting accurate and consistent readings from their Hanna Checker. These include not pressing AND holding after C2 until the 3:00 min timer shows on the display. Not using the same vial for both the C1 and C2. Not cleaning all fingerprints. Not getting all the powder out (there are tricks to this). Not mixing properly (you have 3 min and you need to pause to let all fine bubbles dissipate).

Have not seen problems with reagents, but I guess that is possible.

I have been using mine for a couple years now, and it has been very accurate and totally consistent with the readings. I have also personally helped others who have come to my place with their checkers to get theirs working accurately. And have that offer open to anyone else that might be having problems with theirs. Sometimes the issues are not apparent until you see how a person does their testing (many ways to do it wrong).

Myka
01-11-2015, 07:43 PM
I sent an email to Hanna asking about both the HI713 and HI736 checkers. I did some searching on Reef Central and Google and didn't see this fw/sw Issue mentioned.


Sometimes the issues are not apparent until you see how a person does their testing (many ways to do it wrong).

Yes. Good point.

davej
01-11-2015, 10:27 PM
Picked up a set to check my low range phosphate checker. Read exactly 1.00 like it should have. Good to know it's working right.

Myka
01-11-2015, 11:03 PM
Picked up a set to check my low range phosphate checker. Read exactly 1.00 like it should have. Good to know it's working right.

Awesome, thanks!

Myka
01-12-2015, 03:20 PM
I emailed tech@hannainst.com and here is the response I got:



You can use the HI713 on both fresh and salt water samples.

The HI713 meters accuracy is +/-.04 + +/-4% of reading.

For example:

0ppm the accuracy is +/-.04

1ppm the accuracy is +/-.08

2ppm the accuracy is +/-.12


If you are looking for a more precise measurement you should consider using the HI736 Phosphorus Ultra Low Range meter.

This meter +/-5ppb + +/-5% of reading


This meters range is from 0 to 200 ppb (.20ppm) of Phosphorus. You would just have to do some conversion to get the reading into ppm of PO4.

To convert the phosphorus (P) reading on this meter in to phosphate (PO4) you would have to multiply by .003


For example:

Meter reads:
10ppb of P = .03ppm PO4
100ppb = .30ppm PO4
200ppb = .60ppm PO4


Regards,
Pete

Reef Pilot
01-12-2015, 03:47 PM
Yes, the phosphorus checker is the most accurate for ultra low range. It was not available from local vendors when I bought my phosphate checker.

However, the phosphate one is more than adequate for my needs esp when compared to the color chart test kits. Despite the 0.04 accuracy spec, I usually get zero readings until my GFO starts getting stale and needs changing. Then I start getting readings above zero, and when it gets to about 0.04, I stir up my GFO in my reactor. Usually after that it drops back down to zero. If it doesn't, I change my GFO, and then it does drop back down to zero. So with those kinds of readings that follow my actions, am more than happy with my phosphate checker accuracy.

George
01-12-2015, 06:09 PM
Yes, the phosphorus checker is the most accurate for ultra low range. It was not available from local vendors when I bought my phosphate checker.

However, the phosphate one is more than adequate for my needs esp when compared to the color chart test kits. Despite the 0.04 accuracy spec, I usually get zero readings until my GFO starts getting stale and needs changing. Then I start getting readings above zero, and when it gets to about 0.04, I stir up my GFO in my reactor. Usually after that it drops back down to zero. If it doesn't, I change my GFO, and then it does drop back down to zero. So with those kinds of readings that follow my actions, am more than happy with my phosphate checker accuracy.

Your experience is called consistent. It has nothing to do with accuracy. In order to know if your device is accurate, you have to calibrate it against a known standard. For argument's sake, your actual PO4 could be 0.2 before and 0.1 after (even though your device reports 0.04 and 0).

Reef Pilot
01-12-2015, 06:27 PM
Your experience is called consistent. It has nothing to do with accuracy. In order to know if your device is accurate, you have to calibrate it against a known standard. For argument's sake, your actual PO4 could be 0.2 before and 0.1 after (even though your device reports 0.04 and 0).
Yeah, I can't argue that... However, I have compared it to the color chart test kits (that I still have) and it is still more accurate than them, and that hasn't changed. And I guess based on the behavior of my tank and readings, have no reason to believe that accuracy has fallen off. So for my purposes, I consider it more than accurate enough.

The Hanna checker is just one of many tools I use to monitor and maintain my tank. The requirement for accuracy (maybe granularity is a better term) varies by water parameter. For example, I just use API for my dKH, N03 and Ca. Those test kits are accurate enough for me to maintain the desired ranges for those parameters. And I do have/had the higher granularity test kits for them as well to compare.

But with P04, I found a difference in color and growth of SPS when it reached 0.10. My color chart test kits were still reading zero at that level. So for me the Hanna checker was necessary to get the level of accuracy (or granularity) that I needed for my SPS.

Having said all that, it would be interesting (but not necessary IMO) to go out and get a calibration kit. If I start getting readings that don't make sense, for sure I will do that.

Myka
01-12-2015, 08:26 PM
The calibration kits are only $10-12 for the HI713 and HI736 kits.

Reef Pilot
01-12-2015, 08:28 PM
The calibration kits are only $10-12
And where can I get them? Have never seen them at an LFS or Cdn online retailer.

straightrazorguy
01-12-2015, 11:21 PM
And where can I get them? Have never seen them at an LFS or Cdn online retailer.

Watchiing this thread with interest. I'd like to goet one too....

davej
01-12-2015, 11:34 PM
And where can I get them? Have never seen them at an LFS or Cdn online retailer.


I got mine from BRS

Reef Pilot
01-12-2015, 11:54 PM
I got mine from BRS
Well, I do know that AquaDigital is a distributor for Hanna in Canada...:mrgreen:

Myka
01-13-2015, 03:49 AM
Well, I do know that AquaDigital is a distributor for Hanna in Canada...:mrgreen:

He probably has the calibration kits (or access to them). Any vendor that carries Hanna should be able to special order them for you. I don't know of any Canadian vendors that stock them.

Bblinks
01-13-2015, 03:59 AM
Picked up a set to check my low range phosphate checker. Read exactly 1.00 like it should have. Good to know it's working right.

Not sure if you are using it correctly, I might have to borrow the calibration fluids and check it out in my Hanna.....:redface: :mrgreen:

Bblinks
01-13-2015, 04:01 AM
And where can I get them? Have never seen them at an LFS or Cdn online retailer.

I saw them on brs website, I can order you some next time I do an order, just let me know.

Reef Pilot
01-13-2015, 04:03 AM
I saw them on brs website, I can order you some next time I do an order, just let me know.
Thanks, Rich. But I am not in dire need of one. However, if I walked into an LFS and saw one on the shelf would probably pick it up...

davej
01-13-2015, 07:54 PM
Not sure if you are using it correctly, I might have to borrow the calibration fluids and check it out in my Hanna.....:redface: :mrgreen:

Rich you would be more than welcome, but..
It's a one time use kit.
Comes with two vials one at 0.0 that you put in first to calibrate the meter C1
Then you take second vial that comes preloaded with phosphate level at 1.00, add the little powder pack and mix. After the three minutes you get second reading C2 which in my case was bang on 1.00
If you want I can bring my calibrated meter over and we can test your water with both. If reading is the same then we know yours is accurate as well.
Let me know

Bblinks
01-13-2015, 09:29 PM
Rich you would be more than welcome, but..
It's a one time use kit.
Comes with two vials one at 0.0 that you put in first to calibrate the meter C1
Then you take second vial that comes preloaded with phosphate level at 1.00, add the little powder pack and mix. After the three minutes you get second reading C2 which in my case was bang on 1.00
If you want I can bring my calibrated meter over and we can test your water with both. If reading is the same then we know yours is accurate as well.
Let me know

Oh I get it. I thought it was premixed and all you had to do is put it in but didn't realize you had to add powder to it still. Interesting.

If you ever have time, I would love for you to come by and do a test. Thanks very much!

Treebeard
01-14-2015, 02:13 AM
Rich you would be more than welcome, but..
It's a one time use kit.
Comes with two vials one at 0.0 that you put in first to calibrate the meter C1
Then you take second vial that comes preloaded with phosphate level at 1.00, add the little powder pack and mix. After the three minutes you get second reading C2 which in my case was bang on 1.00
If you want I can bring my calibrated meter over and we can test your water with both. If reading is the same then we know yours is accurate as well.
Let me know

What if the second reading is not 1.00? Is there a way to adjust it?

Treebeard
01-17-2015, 11:46 PM
So, I just tested my tank water. Phosphates = 0.
So I tested the reject water from my RO/DI, phosphates = 0.
Has anyone seen these calibration kits in Canada? If not I will order from BRS and have it shipped to a friend in Chicago and have her ship it to me.

Treebeard
01-18-2015, 12:02 AM
I checked Hanna's website and I cannot see any information about what to do if your HI 713 is out to lunch, which mine obviously is. It would appear that there is no way of actually calibrating the tester. :sad: