Chemistry is a mess. Please help.

[LeanneP]

I have a 90 gallon mixed reef tank and for the past month my alkalinity has been low and I can't seem to get my tank stable. I talked to J &l and was told to do a 20 gallon water change but my alk is at 6.1 and my new sw had alk at about 12.5. Won't that be too much of a shock to my tank if the alk goes up to 8.6 from 6.1? Is this the best way to solve this because I am at my wits end. I have a doser and have used the calculator but it has not worked. I think that I may have been dosing too much alk and my ionic balance got screwed up. I have started dosing calcium again and my mag is at 1500. Should I get a different salt with lower alk? Just wondering if using a new type of salt will be hard on the tank too.

[duncangweller]

If you do a 20% water change it won't raise your alk to 8.6, It will only raise it by a few points.

From my experience if you can get magnesium to the right level, then the other two should follow pretty quick.

As far as dosing, get your tank to the right parameters, then wait a few days and test again. This way you can see what gets used up by your tank. Then dose back up to the right level and calculate what your daily use would be from how much it dropped over the few days. (Hope that makes sense).

The BRS calculator is just a guide, so don't take it as gospel, but its a great place to start. Your tank may also use more calc than alk or vice versa, so through your testing you will see what gets used and what you need to replace.

Once you get it set life gets a lot easier, but through adding corals and such you will need to adjust the amount you dose to keep up with the new demand.

There is a tonne of information online regarding this. Keep an eye out for articles from randy holmes-farley as he seems to be the reef science guy (they can be a bit heavy so maybe get a beer or a glass of wine before settling down to read it)

Hope this helps,
Dunc

[CM125]

Just remember 20 gallons is only about 20% of your system. The difference wont be a shock and a 20% water change is always a good idea to start!

[ponokareefer]

From what I understand, if your alk is low, you shouldn't be dosing calcium, you should be dosing alk. If your magnesium is at 1500, that is a little high, but not terrible. I definitely wouldn't be trying to boost it. With that much magnesium, you should be able to get your alk back up. What is your calcium level at?

Also, what is in your system for corals and inverts(such as clams)?

What is the magnesium level and calcium level of the new salt water?

What is the PH of your tank water and the new salt water you mixed? Alk can have a bearing on the PH. Here is a link to alkinity and PH. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/5/chemistry

[reefwars]

I have a 90 gallon mixed reef tank and for the past month my alkalinity has been low and I can't seem to get my tank stable. I talked to J &l and was told to do a 20 gallon water change but my alk is at 6.1 and my new sw had alk at about 12.5. Won't that be too much of a shock to my tank if the alk goes up to 8.6 from 6.1? Is this the best way to solve this because I am at my wits end. I have a doser and have used the calculator but it has not worked. I think that I may have been dosing too much alk and my ionic balance got screwed up. I have started dosing calcium again and my mag is at 1500. Should I get a different salt with lower alk? Just wondering if using a new type of salt will be hard on the tank too.

if your adding alk through a doser to make up a bulk addition and alk isnt raising then you have one of three issues:

either the test in inaccurate
not enough alk is added
or the alk precipitated out


how much alk are you adding to raise it and over what time frame?

what product is it your adding?

how are you testing and have you figured out what your daily consumption is?

doing a water change to raise your alk is fine but theres better ways of doing it and def less expensive ways:)


it is fine to dose cal if the demand is there while alk is low , i cant see why it wouldnt be? :)

[LeanneP]

I was only dosing alk but then I realized I was out of balance because my alk was actually dropping the more I dosed and my Ca started dropping too. I dosed only Ca yesterday for awhile but then my alk dropped again too. I have got my Ca to 420 but then it is still dropping so I have continued increasing how much I am putting in. Alk was up to 6.4 from 6.1 but now my alk is down to 5.4. I am dosing too much alk? I have read and read and I have been doing water changes but nothing seems to be working.
When I called j & l I was told my system would be about 63 gallons so that is where I was getting my numbers from in doing a 20 gallon water change. I have my mag high because I was told earlier that it was good to have mag high if alk was low.
My test kits are all new so I now they are accurate. I am almost getting to the point of just selling everything because I am so frustrated. I am amazed that I haven't really lost anything, but my long tentacle anenome has not been happy. He has let go of his foot hold 3 times since this has been happening.

[reefwars]

I was only dosing alk but then I realized I was out of balance because my alk was actually dropping the more I dosed and my Ca started dropping too. I dosed only Ca yesterday for awhile but then my alk dropped again too. I have got my Ca to 420 but then it is still dropping so I have continued increasing how much I am putting in. Alk was up to 6.4 from 6.1 but now my alk is down to 5.4. I am dosing too much alk? I have read and read and I have been doing water changes but nothing seems to be working.
When I called j & l I was told my system would be about 63 gallons so that is where I was getting my numbers from in doing a 20 gallon water change. I have my mag high because I was told earlier that it was good to have mag high if alk was low.
My test kits are all new so I now they are accurate. I am almost getting to the point of just selling everything because I am so frustrated. I am amazed that I haven't really lost anything, but my long tentacle anenome has not been happy. He has let go of his foot hold 3 times since this has been happening.

What are you dosing for Alk and how much over 24hrs? It's hard to help without the info , do you keep a logbook?


Stop chasing numbers and bulk dose to get your alk up if your target alk is more than 1dkh higher then your at now then spread the doses out over a couple days of you must , but the bulk has to be added.

Realize that as you add Alk and calcium animals start to use it , especially if they are healthy and growing , coralline being a big consumer so more Alk is now needed(fwiw this never ends)

High mg won't be a problem but low mg will.

You can raise your Alk by 1 dkh in fact you can do more but to play it safe 1 dkh a day is plenty. Healthy tanks can consume 1dkh to 3 dkh per day , dosing lots isn't uncommon.

Don't monitor daily calcium drops they arnt accurate , your test can't test that low and will send you adding more or adding less (chasing numbers)

Don't get frustrated , it's confusing at first especially when there's so much conflicting information but fwiw Alk won't rise unless it's added somehow , you have to add it.......be it through the salt or through the chems your going to have to get your levels where you want them and you'll then have to find a way to keep them there.

As a side note there are other ways to keep Alk and cal in check , a calcium reactor may be less headache for you;)

[ReEf BoSs]

Sounds like you might just be over thinking it . Dose as said above either alittle a day or aggressive. I vote aggressive as you are already fustrated.Dose until you tank is where you want it in one day then test alk every day/ calcium after 5-7days. This will tell you how much ur needing to add. I dose way more alk than calcium and have never dosed mag but it is in with my calcium, everything is balanced as i can tell. Good luck the people in this forum know way more than me .

[Myka]

Leanne, you still haven't told us what product you are using that I have read. This is important as different products are different concentrations (particularly liquid supplements. What test kit are you using? Dosing is simple if you give us the right information! :)

Do this:

1) Test alkalinity. Record.
2) Add 3 tsp of DRY sodium bicarbonate alkalinity powder into about 2 cups of RO water. Mix well, pour slowly into the sump (take about 30 seconds to pour).
3) Wait an hour. Retest. Record.

Post back with your results.

[LeanneP]

Sorry for not posting the proper info. I use C-Balance from Two Little Fishies and when my tank is stable I dose 12 mls a day with a doser. In the last 24 hours I have dosed 40 mls of alk and a little less of Ca. I am using new Salifert test kits that I have just got last week. My alk had gone up a little to about 6.7 this morning and my ca was at 415. I have done as Mindy suggested and I added 3 tsps of reef builder from Seachem. Is Cbalance not very strong? I will post the results of the alk at 11:20 when an hour is up. Thanks for all the help.

[reefwars]

Sorry for not posting the proper info. I use C-Balance from Two Little Fishies and when my tank is stable I dose 12 mls a day with a doser. In the last 24 hours I have dosed 40 mls of alk and a little less of Ca. I am using new Salifert test kits that I have just got last week. My alk had gone up a little to about 6.7 this morning and my ca was at 415. I have done as Mindy suggested and I added 3 tsps of reef builder from Seachem. Is Cbalance not very strong? I will post the results of the alk at 11:20 when an hour is up. Thanks for all the help.



12mls isnt much and 40mls isnt much either , so yes youll need to add much more alk to get where you want it:)


some people have to does in the hundreds of mls ( a friend doses 1g of alk and cal a week in a 120g sps packed tank)

it would take well over 200mls of bicarbonate solution just to birng your tank to 9dkh, this doesnt take in account how much your tank uses.


if c balance is a bicarbonate solution then its not as strong as a sodium carbonate solution would be , im not sure what their product would be but it would be either or if its in salt form.

[reefwars]

i dose 40mls of bicarbonate solution in a 40g system that has mostly lps and zoanthids;)

[LeanneP]

I added the 3 tsps of reef builder and now my dkh has gone from 6.7 to 8.5. I didn't think it was good to raise the alkalinity that quickley. Now my question is how do I keep it there? I was using the reef calculator but I guess it wasn't really giving me the right amount because it said to dose 108 mls to get alk to 8.6. Should I continue dosing and add the reef builder as extra?

[reefwars]

I added the 3 tsps of reef builder and now my dkh has gone from 6.7 to 8.5. I didn't think it was good to raise the alkalinity that quickley. Now my question is how do I keep it there? I was using the reef calculator but I guess it wasn't really giving me the right amount because it said to dose 108 mls to get alk to 8.6. Should I continue dosing and add the reef builder as extra?

actually the calculator is spot on , 3.3 tbs of dry sodium bicarbonate crystals will raise your from 6.5 to 8.5

generally theres no need to raise your alk that fast but its not necessarily going to cause harm , as i mentioned its a rule of thumb but you can def do more if you needed to:)

it comes down to what are you entering as your solution or additive if your using the brs calcutor?

[reefwars]

from what i can read c balance is a bicarbonate solution if it helps:)

this calculator has two little fishies as a product to pick

http://reef.diesyst.com/flashcalc/flashcalc.html

[LeanneP]

actually the calculator is spot on , 3.3 tbs of dry sodium bicarbonate crystals will raise your from 6.5 to 8.5

generally theres no need to raise your alk that fast but its not necessarily going to cause harm , as i mentioned its a rule of thumb but you can def do more if you needed to:)

it comes down to what are you entering as your solution or additive if your using the brs calcutor?

I am not usually using reef builder to dose with. I usually use C-balance. If I dose c-balance and use the 108 mls then if I am dosing 40 mls in 2 and a half days shouldn't I reach 8.6? Or am I totally reading this wrong?

[reefwars]

I am not usually using reef builder to dose with. I usually use C-balance. If I dose c-balance and use the 108 mls then if I am dosing 40 mls in 2 and a half days shouldn't I reach 8.6? Or am I totally reading this wrong?

Your not raking into account your daily consumption which us prob around 1 dkh, so in two days what you added has been used up;) making it seem like it not raising

[reefwars]

So first thing tomorrow add 1 spoon and see what it does:)

this is where a log book comes into play , jot down the alk daily then at the end of a week or two you'll have a solid under standing of what your tank needs daily.

[LeanneP]

Thanks for all your time and advice. I am hoping to get back on track now.

[Myka]

Thanks for all your time and advice. I am hoping to get back on track now.

Sounds like you have it figured out now. The idea is to test, dose a measured amount, wait an hour, test again. Do that with the C-Balance so you know how much it affects your tank. I haven't used C-Balance in a long time, so I can't remember how much it should affect your tank.

[LeanneP]

Sounds like you have it figured out now. The idea is to test, dose a measured amount, wait an hour, test again. Do that with the C-Balance so you know how much it affects your tank. I haven't used C-Balance in a long time, so I can't remember how much it should affect your tank.

Thanks Mindy. That is good advise. I realize now I have been way to cautious at what I have been adding.

[Myka]

Thanks Mindy. That is good advise. I realize now I have been way to cautious at what I have been adding.

You're welcome. 9 times out of 10, that's the problem. :)

[LeanneP]

Happy to say my tank is happy and back to normal. It amazes me how much there is to know about this hobby and I never stop learning more. Thanks again for everyone's help.
Leanne