ro filter

[smokinreefer]

hey guys...i am ready to get an ro filter.

can you tell me what kind of ro you guys use?
ro only?
ro/di?
3 stage, 4 stage, brand etc, etc.

is ro/di necessary or is just ro OK?

thanks

[Doug]

I use only an RO, albeit a 5 stage unit. Its part of my house water filtration system though.

Makes nice clean water with no DI unit.

[Troy F]

I use the Kent 55gal/day RO/DI with four filtration stages.

[StirCrazy]

I have a 100gpd 4 stage RO/DI reef pure :D

don't think you'll find one of thease babys anymore hehe

Steve

[canadawest]

I've got an almost identical one to Steve's - a 100GPD 3 Stage RO/DI unit from Reefpure. Been working great for a year now.

Speaking of, I need a new sediment and carbon filter for mine. Should I go J&L or the local Home Depot? Anyone use a standard replacement filter from Home Depot or Canadian Tire type store in their unit with sucess?

Now $9 for the sediment is not worth shopping around for really, but is there money to be saved on the $26 carbon cartridge?

[StirCrazy]

I would go to Home Depot as they are standard 10" cartrages.. I found a place in town here that sells various types so if Home depot doesent have them try looking at a resadential water filter place.. usaly thoes places soak you on the unit then offer replacement filteres for cheep smile.gif

oh make sure you get a "Carbon block" and not a plain carbon filter

Steve

[ 24 September 2002, 19:57: Message edited by: StirCrazy ]

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

Recently, I purchased an Aquafx 100GPD 4 stage RO/DI at www.aquariumpros.ca (http://www.aquariumpros.ca) . I am happy with the unit, but it was backordered for a month. They have a sale on it for the past couple of months - $269; however, the sale will end soon.

The total came to around $330 including shipping, and taxes.

Hope that helps.

- Victor.

[smokinreefer]

thanks for the quick responses so far guys,
i am kinda thinkin of the 4 stage ro/di like the one at aquariumpros or a 5stage ro home filter like dougs....any opinions on whether there will be any difference, besides the home one having a small storage tank for drinking water?

[stephane]

I have a 4 stage RO/DI 100 GPD that I have order from wateranywere.com http://wateranywhere.com/Virtual/VirtualPages/Directory_Page_MERCHANT_6.asp?Directo ryCode=~ (http://wateranywhere.com/Virtual/VirtualPages/Directory_Page_MERCHANT_6.asp?DirectoryCode=~)
I have order it in part and it have cost me 80$ US. but you have to assemble it. I have see that they double the price of there membrane I have pay mine 25$ for 100 GPD they are now 50$ :(

For the DI I have order a bulk for 100$ US and it is goog for 28-30 refil so I have enought for the next 30 years it is the MB1 mixed bed resin http://www.resindepot.com/page20.html
I have see that SWC cary resin at good price to if you dont want to buy a full bulk

For the TDS meter I have bought a Dual Inline TDS Monitor (Measures BOTH In & Out) from aquarium pro.ca 59.99$ can.and I realy recomend it over a handled model http://aquariumpros.ca/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=A&Category_Code=RA (http://aquariumpros.ca/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=A&Category_Code=RA)

http://aquariumpros.ca/Merchant2/graphics/In-Line-TDS-sm.jpg

[ 24 September 2002, 21:09: Message edited by: stephane ]

[stephane]

I just want to add someting RO/DI are realy not good for drinking you should plug your drinking tank before the DI cartrige

[Aquattro]

Originally posted by stephane:
I just want to add someting RO/DI are realy not good for drinking you should plug your drinking tank before the DI cartrige<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Why is that?

[Aquattro]

Answering my own question here. I suspect you are confusing DI with Ion exchange resins, which "trade" various salts for the removed contaminants.
A DI resin operates a little differently.
"Deionizers are complete “ion exchangers”. In a deionizer, water flows through a chamber filled with “cation” and “anion” synthetic resin beads. Millions of hydrogen ions (H+) are loosely attached to each cation bead and hydroxide ions (OH-) are attached to each anion bead. Passing water exchanges all its positive ions for H+ ions and all its negative ions for OH- ions.

Released H+ and OH- ions react with each other, forming H-OH or H2O, which is water."

And water, we all know, is good fer drinkin" ! tongue.gif

[smokinreefer]

looks like i will be getting a ro home filter...
for about the same price as the 100 gallon ro/di+shipping i can get a 50 gallon ro with the storage tank and drinking faucet...if i decide to add di in the future it will cost a mere $75.

[Troy F]

Awesome Shao, that's what I like to hear!

[Aquattro]

Originally posted by smokinreefer:
nevermind...
i've decided i'd rather spend my dollars supporting a canadian reef store, aquariumpros!<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Keep in mind that the unit itself is from a US company and the Canadian company makes almost nothing on it. Don't get me wrong, they're great units, but if you can save a substantial amount of money by buying elsewhere without the shipping costs......

[stephane]

Originally posted by Reef_Raf:
Answering my own question here. I suspect you are confusing DI with Ion exchange resins, which "trade" various salts for the removed contaminants.
A DI resin operates a little differently.
"Deionizers are complete “ion exchangers”. In a deionizer, water flows through a chamber filled with “cation” and “anion” synthetic resin beads. Millions of hydrogen ions (H+) are loosely attached to each cation bead and hydroxide ions (OH-) are attached to each anion bead. Passing water exchanges all its positive ions for H+ ions and all its negative ions for OH- ions.

Released H+ and OH- ions react with each other, forming H-OH or H2O, which is water."

And water, we all know, is good fer drinkin" ! tongue.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Im realy talking about DI cartrige cation and anion, Drinking deionized water is not a good idea. First of all if dionized water comes in contact with metal, it will dissolve it into the water. If you drink pure water it will take minerals form your body becasue it is "Ion aggressive". Also purified water grows a great deal of psudemonas bacteria. Remember, you were told never drink water form a stagnant pond. Every drinking water system I have seen in a home is a stagnant pond. To stop water from growing massive amounts of bacteria, you must add an inhibitor (chlorine, choramine, Iodine etc...) or you must keep it moving at a constant 5 feet per second. If if you remove bacteria and then store it in a tank, storage bladder or in a pipe, it will rapidly re-grow bacteria.

link of interest in water purification (http://apswater.com/page30.html)

From resinedepos

[ 26 September 2002, 16:08: Message edited by: stephane ]

[stephane]

I agree reef raf

Im not shure but I realy dont tink aquarium pro made a lot of money on those unit cause AJ dont buy them from wateraniwere.com but from aquafix who probably buy then from wateranywere cause there only two compagny who realy made purification product in US the first is DOW who is in fact wateranywere.com and another I dont remeber is name.

When I have orther mine it it was good cause nobody online where selling RO cheap like aquarium pro.ca do and the membrane was 25$ for a 100 gpd at water anywere but now maybe it is diferent as wateranywere have jump there price maybe you will not save a buch if you orther it from US take a calculator and count everyting dont forget the dam 30$ broker fee UPS ask

[ 26 September 2002, 16:02: Message edited by: stephane ]

[smokinreefer]

nevermind...
i've decided i'd rather spend my dollars supporting a canadian reef store, aquariumpros!

[aquamansilver]

Stephane, the TDS meter from aquariumpros is 69.99 not 59.99... I'll buy one anyway!

Also, is it OK to use normal hosehold sediment filters found at Canadian Tire like this- Fine Pre filter (http://www.canadiantire.ca/assortments/product_detail.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=1049601&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=394463&) - and this one- Chemical, Chlorine,Taste/Odour Cartridge (http://www.canadiantire.ca/assortments/product_detail.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=1049601&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=770245)- for the clorine removals?

[stephane]

Oups... I have pay that price six month ago
the price is higher
probably due to hour realy great money value!

Normaly Im alway in favor of buying ting in hardwar store but I found that for those cartrige you will not save a lot. On ting important is
that the sediment cartrige should be 1 micon and the carbon 5 micron if my memory is good

most of sediment cartrige from hardware store have higher micron so it will be more harder on your membrane since they are not made for RO but only utilize by there own without membrane but if you could find the right one and save some $ go for it

That hobby is so expensive so if you could find place where you could save some money and tell to
every one it will only contribute more to promote that hobby. I know it is important to support our LFS in paper and theory but I like more to spend that extra money save in my own tank for coral, fish , diner at restaurant or even send it to charity if you heart is very big. ;)

[ 27 September 2002, 15:58: Message edited by: stephane ]

[StirCrazy]

Home Depot carries 1, 2, 5 and 10 micron sediment cartrages (I even saw a .5 micron once)
if they are out Canadian tire sells them also, or as a alternative you could try a home RO dealer (they are even cheeper than aquarium store replacements) Also you can get a various micron reading for the carbon block filters also (mind you not as many as the sediment).

If you live in Victoria or some other temprate area which has a high algae content in the water (Victoria is horable) it will plug up your sediment filter fast.. as it doesent take much to plug a 1 micron filter. to solve ths go to Home depot or whare ever buy a single "standard 10" filter housing" and a 5 micron filter and plum this infront of your RO. A 5 micron size will filter the Algae with out plugging up fast and allow your 1 micron filter to last much longer.

for a example Canadian tire carries the "Extra Fine Pore Sediment Cartridge" which is a 1 micrin rating for 6.99 the next cheepest place I have found is J&L's for 8.99 (I can't remember what Home depot is but if it is the same brand as the canadian tire one then it will be just over 6.00.

The "Rainfresh Fine Pore Sediment Cartridge" is
5.19 or a two pack for 7.49.

the "Chlorine, Taste & Odour Cartridge" which is a "Solid block, activated carbon construction" and looks surprisingly like the one in my unit from Aquariums Pro, is 9.99 ir 17.99 for a twin pack, thease are about 20.00 each in a aquarium store)

So you can see yours local hardware stores have the exact same quality as the aquarium units. there is no difference at all just that a under counter unit has a post carbon filter also to ensure the water going to the storage tank is cleen.. if there is nothing in it when you put the water in, you will not grow anything.. also most home units recomend that you "sanatize" the storage containers every year and replace the carbon filters fairly often.. My parents have a "whole house" RO unit and they change there filters once a year and they have never had a problem with bacteria or anything else. I did try stealing it last time I was there but my Dad was to alert for me to get it out of the house :D

Steve

[ 27 September 2002, 16:36: Message edited by: StirCrazy ]

[stephane]

I just fond that Jason have the same bulk I have order for a very good price

They are actualy in special and will cost you less than if you orther it from Resin Depos + he
sale it in smaler quantitie than 60 pound!!

[Marianne]

Drinking Di water will have the same effect as drinking rain water.

The water is so diluted after it hits your mouth, it really doesn't matter.

What it won't have in it is dissolved rock, unuseable by the human body.

You will find it doesn't taste good, due to the way it is made. If you have kidney stones you would not want to drink anything else.

The theory is the osmonic pressure in your own cell walls will become to great, and they will burst, if you drank enough DI water to rinse your whole system clean to that point, you will have drowned, DI or Raw tap water.

Drink it, don't drink it.....the best bet is just drink RO, it is almost TDS free and it taste better!!!

Just one woman thoughts 8)

[ldzielak]

My Kent system also recomended not drinking the water after the DI filter. My best guess is the water is too pure:
I worked with a fellow who used to head the Ultrapure water plant for Intelin CA. They use Ultra pure water to stop & clean the CPU's between each etching process. If the water was not pure enough, the etching reaction to take too much of or it could leave too much debris behind. So in the end they had bad chips if the water was not pure enough. The explanation was if water is so pure, it will absorb very well any ions. Maybe something like this happens when we drink the water. Just a guess.....

Lee

[StirCrazy]

Lee most of the reason they recomend not to drink the water is for sales purposes. that way if you want drinking water you will think you have to buy another unit. the water we make on the ship is 0.065EPM (more pure than a home unit will make) and we drink that for sometime 6 months at a time. As Marianne pointer out there is nothing wrong with drinking DI, heck Bruce would be dead by now if there was :D

Steve

[stephane]

yes my sister smoke for 13 years and shes not dead so you could smoke
very good reasoning

Even the compagny who made the resin dont recomend to drink water from DI but maybe they just dont know wath they talk about!

[smokinreefer]

:roll:

well i am not an expert on this, just like the rest of you, but here is my take on things...

i don't think drinkiing DI water will cause you any health issues.

as most have stated on this topic before, it would appear the main factors as to why you wouldnt want to drink DI is...

1) you may not be used to it, so it may not sit well with your stomach
2) it is lacking in any minerals, which ofcourse your body needs...but if you eat food this shouldnt be a problem
3) it has nothing to give it the "water" taste that we are used to drinking, so it will not taste as good
4) it is more expensive than plain RO!!

i think you will only run into issues if you drink insane amounts of DI water and do not eat a proper diet to provide the minerals and elements that your body requires...but when will that happen?!?

anyhow, if you care to share your opinions or

constructive thoughts on this, please do

[DJ88]

i think you will only run into issues if you drink insane amounts of DI water and do not eat a proper diet to provide the minerals and elements that your body requires

Ding Ding Ding Ding.. Give the man a prize..

Eat properly and you won't have a problem. That is all it comes down to. By eating a proper diet and making sure you take in the minerals and nutrients your body needs with your meals or supplements and you will be fine.

All I drink is DI. And eat properly. Been drinking it for about two years or so. Can't stand the taste of anything else. Carry two liters with me to school and a liter at most other times.

:)

The water is so diluted after it hits your mouth, it really doesn't matter

What do you dilute water with? Water? ;)

Sorry couldn't resist.

[Canadian]

I drank deionized water for several years without any health problems arising. Deionized water is a recognized type of bottled drinking water and is approved by the FDA. Tobacco, however, is not regulated by the FDA Stephane.

Furthermore, extensive searching on Medline did not produce a single document relating to the adverse health effects occuring from the consumption of deionized water. So if this is such a commonly recognized fact, would someone please provide me with some credible studies that support such a claim?

The only concerns I could accept would be that you'd lack the intake of various metals (such as Ca, Mg, etc), but that would be a moot point if you consumed a well balanced diet. In addition, if the effect of ion aggression of DI water water was significant enough to warrant a health concern, I assume those of us who drink DI water and have mercury fillings would be suffering from mercury poisoning huh?

P.S. According to Kent's website, they ". . . do not recommend drinking deionized water because it is so pure that it will taste 'dry'!"

[stephane]

here is a link were resin depos tell tonot drink DI water (resin depos are the one who make the DI resin in US) read the 3 last post on that page in the mean time you could read that tread there a tone of good info for that resin and how it work

http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67501&perpage=25&highlight=Ion%20aggressive&pagenumber=6


Here is the email of the owner

mwilson@apswater.com

Mitchell Wilson
President
ResinDepot.com
7320 Valjean Ave
Van Nuys, Ca. 91406
800-460-9011Toll Free (U.S. and Canada)
818-786-0600 Local/International
818-786-2347 Fax
http://www.apswater.com
http://www.labwater.com
http://www.resindepot.com

Do your own search and call them I tink they know DI water beter than anyone on this board

but if you still want to drink DI water it is your choice and your life not mine I dont tink you will die of drinking it but maybe it just not the best ting you could do +IMO it dont teaste realy great so why take the risk

I take the cigaret comparison to show you that because people do it is very far from a good reason to confirn it is good. people do a lot of ting not good for there healt and alway tink healt problem are for other and they are bullet proof but went problem arrive it is another story

I have not make a blind statement here but I made reseach before to warn you but you are all adult and free of doing wath you want so enjoy you water I enjoy mine :wink:

[smokinreefer]

hmmm...

OK, so we can agree that ro/di water will strip minerals or ions from whatever they are in contact with...

but seriously, how fast do you think it reacts...do you really think that if you pour some pure water on metal it will saturate the water instantly??

even so, how much water does a person drink at a time...1 glass??...and how long does it take to consume that glass??

lets say i chug a full glass of ro/di water...first, the water will not be absorbed into my system instantaneously...it will surely reach my stomach before it has time to undergo any significant chemical reaction. once it reaches my stomach it will have a plethora(sp.?) of nutrients and organics to leach from. no?

[Marianne]

Rain water, unless you live in a polluted city, is without ions. (Crap can be picked up in the air during precipatation (crap=non technical word). The earth minerals that are dissolved in water give it it's ions. The only concern should be if the resins are "FOOD GRADE" they may not be.

All the resin we use are. Everything we use is.

Ultra pure water would not have a cumlative effect, like cigs.

[Troy F]

Rain water, unless you live in a polluted city, is without ions.

I doubt me that there is very many places in the world that have pure rainwater. Most of the world is polluted.

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

DI water is very pure water, but DI water doesn't like to be in this state...it likes to have ions dissolve in it. If you drink DI water, it will try to extract ions (trace metals) from you. This is fine as long as you eat enough to replace these metals.

As an extreme example, if you were on a hunger strike, I would not drink DI water. Since you are not eating anything, the DI water will eventually remove enough trace elements to give you health problems.

- Victor.

[Canadian]

You guys keep saying things like "...DI water will eventually remove enough trace elements to give you health problems." without providing any proof. It's absolutely insane. The water you consume does not simply pass through your excretory system without being filtered. Even if, for instance, DI water was aggressive enough to strip as much Ca as possible from your body after you consumed it, the reduced Ca concentration in your plasma would trigger the secretion of parathyroid hormone which would prompt the stimulation of the formation of calcitrol to increase intestinal absorption, and cause your kidneys to increase Ca reabsorption, thus leading to decreased Ca excretion. Likewise, similar response mechanisms occur for controlling the excretion of other ions such as K, Na, etc. It's called homeostasis - it's a wonderful thing people.
It's not as if your body is a cylindrical piece of pipe through which water flows. "Stripping" of ions early in the process of ingesting DI water would trigger the reabsorption of those ions in the kidneys and other organs before they were excreted. A piece of pipe or a semiconductor kinda of lack those physiological components and mechanisms don't they? :)

[Aquattro]

Andrew, thank you for introducing science into this topic, coupled with some common sense!!

[StirCrazy]

Thank you Andrew, I was going to post last night about this but from the "water making and drinking water quality" point of view but your post introduced medical facts to shut down the "Old Wifes Tails" and is probable more effectivve than me trying to explain that demineralizing or DI (same thing) is used all over the world for drinking water in countries whare water would otherwise be undrinkable.

I think Marianne had a good point also about making sure the resins you are using are FOOD GRADE, after all with everyone trying to be concenious (spelling?) in this hobby, why would you use any water that is not safe to drink yourself. If the resins are not food grade...what by products are they leaving behind? and how will they afffect our fish?

I think it was said to me once "you spent thousands of bucks on sand and rock.. don't risk your fish over saving 20.00" or something along the same lines as that :D

Steve

[smokinreefer]

btw...where is my RO?? :roll:

[DJ88]

Rain water, unless you live in a polluted city

What is concidered polluted?

If you look back a few years before sattelite imagery and high tech gadgets, the US was able to tell that the USSR was testing atomic weapons by air samples alone. Go up into the arctic or down to the antarctic(or a glacier for that matter), when cores are taken of ice structures until you get deep enough to get past the industrial age there isn't "pure" ice. It is contaminated with all the crap floating around the earth. I highly doubt that you can go anywhere on this planet and get pure rainwater. Not with progress.

Victor,

the DI water will eventually remove enough trace elements to give you health problems.

And where will they go? How will they leave your body? Through something else other than your digestive tract and urinary system? Evaporation? Your body is designed to remove things that it conciders essential to survivial. If it was removed or stripped in whatever fashion don't you think your body would re-absorb it again in your digestive tract or urinary system? However IF and I stress IF the water was able to remove enough to cause problems don't you think someone who tests things like this would have said something and these cartridges would be labelled and expressly marked NOT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION.. DANGER!!!!

Most importantly to me.. if DI was able to remove enough of these elements necessary for you to live, you have more important things to worry about. Stop drinking coke with every "meal" and forget eating cheetos and caramilks all day long and eat properly. If you are worried about DI doing this to you. It's time to rethink your eating habits.

Andrew,

Cudos.. Good job.

You know it won't make a whit of a difference tho. The wives tale is so much more fun to perpetuate. It creates such a gruesome image. :twisted: :shock: :evil: People drinking DI water and actually being taken apart and stripped down into their basic elements. In time they will just fall apart. Or else the water will cause them to mummify as it has removed everything essential for us to survive. OH MY! :shock: :shock:

too funny.. lol

[pocilipora]

I did use DI but I took it off. No ill effects so far that I can see. Now its just RO water.

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

Removing enough elements to give you health problems. Most people don't experience these problems since we tend to eat enough to prevent these problems.

Let me give you another example, a person who has low iron tends to have low red cell count -- this makes the person very tired and unable to perform strenuous exercise. The solution to this problem is to ask this person to eat iron rich foods. Suppose, we ask this person to drink DI water. If DI water extracts the iron from this iron defficient person...she is going to have even more problems. There are all sorts of defficiencies, but they don't usually hear about it. However, if you have ever traveled to third world countries and hang around with the locals, you will realise that defficiences can happen and they can lead to real health problems. I wonder why we have so many supplement pills at the drug stores....vitamins supplements, cod liver oil and etc.

As to why DI can capture trace elements....think of you body as a chemical mixing vessel. It contains blood, trace elements and other stuff. If we add DI water in to the system, we will dillute the blood and other stuff. When we go to the bath room, we release dead blood cells and other waste products. We can regenerate blood cells, but we can't regenerate minerals. Water is also release, but it is a mixed version of DI and regular water. The unfortunate part is that the remaining water actually has less trace elements. If this person continues to drink DI water with out eating stuff to replace the trace elements, this person is going to become trace element defficient. However, normal people don't experience this unless you are on a hunger strike or you happen to avoid certain food groups.

- Victor.