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View Full Version : local beach crabs in a reef tank


kengeroo
09-25-2014, 01:42 AM
In any beach in the lower mainland there is an endless supply of little crabs...

years ago in my fish only SW tank I used to put them in there...

They seem to do fine...

Has anyone done this in a reef tank ????

those darn emerald crabs are pretty expensive... !!!!

monza
09-25-2014, 02:18 AM
Interesting I would have not thought this possible, from tropical water temps to northern pacific?

Slyguy00
09-25-2014, 02:33 AM
They will die after time, reef tanks are to warm. Theres a good chance they carry disease and its also illegal.

kengeroo
09-25-2014, 03:02 AM
they lived for months... and I don't think it's illegal,,, it's illegal to put into the wild... not take,,,

people fish, crab, shrimp, etc..... (as longs as they have the license...



They will die after time, reef tanks are to warm. Theres a good chance they carry disease and its also illegal.

spit.fire
09-25-2014, 03:09 AM
Ya, it's illegal

Slyguy00
09-25-2014, 03:31 AM
they lived for months... and I don't think it's illegal,,, it's illegal to put into the wild... not take,,,

people fish, crab, shrimp, etc..... (as longs as they have the license...

If you know everything why are you asking for advice???

Coral Hoarder
09-25-2014, 03:56 AM
One plus on illegal there's no licence to take non food items

Ryanerickson
09-25-2014, 04:42 AM
There is a licence its hard to obtain more for marine biologist type people I know vancouver aquarium gathers some species this way.

Coral Hoarder
09-25-2014, 04:43 AM
Didn't know that but it's not for a old person lol

gregzz4
09-25-2014, 05:55 AM
those darn emerald crabs are pretty expensive... !!!!
It's your tank to risk ... I'd never do it

Besides the fact that you're introducing different diseases that may or may not thrive in your little glass box, you're subjecting the poor little crabs to an environment that they are not genetically predisposed to survive in
All legal crap aside, the temperature off Stanley Park was 56F today

You might just as well put them directly into a pot of boiling water and melt some butter

Bad Reefer .... Baaad :twised:

Slyguy00
09-25-2014, 06:46 AM
It's your tank to risk ... I'd never do it

Besides the fact that you're introducing different diseases that may or may not thrive in your little glass box, you're subjecting the poor little crabs to an environment that they are not genetically predisposed to survive in
All legal crap aside, the temperature off Stanley Park was 56F today

You might just as well put them directly into a pot of boiling water and melt some butter

Bad Reefer .... Baaad :twised:

Exactly!

The Guy
09-25-2014, 07:11 AM
Yaaaa- Noooo not a good idea!! :hand:

JDigital
09-26-2014, 06:40 PM
those darn emerald crabs are pretty expensive... !!!!


If you think they are expensive, you are in the wrong hobby! :lol:

albert_dao
09-26-2014, 11:10 PM
If you think they are expensive, you are in the wrong hobby! :lol:

I think they're expensive :(

babnika
09-27-2014, 02:38 AM
just buy more then you mite get a discount :lol:

Ken
09-27-2014, 06:22 AM
Cheaper by the dozen

gregzz4
09-27-2014, 06:40 AM
I get a feeling that the OP is out of the conversation now

The Guy
09-27-2014, 06:51 AM
I get a feeling that the OP is out of the conversation now
Yep, I think your right Gregg. Time to ditch this! :wink:

albert_dao
09-27-2014, 08:33 AM
just buy more then you mite get a discount :lol:

... I don't get it.

Samw
09-27-2014, 11:30 AM
I'm guessing those are "shore crabs". Here are the regulations for those with a valid tidal license:

http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/species-especes/shelltable-tableaucoquille-eng.htm

Crab, Shore
Area 1 to 27 Limit: 75 Apr 1 - Mar 31
Area 28 and 29 Limit: 0 Closed

Here's the map showing you where Areas 1-29 are.

http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/map-carte-eng.asp

So if you have a license, you can retain up to 75 shore crabs from Areas 1 to 27 which are outside the Lower Mainland. The Lower Mainland span Areas 28 and 29 and you can keep 0 from there. :)

Now for "Other Crabs" like hermit crabs, you can keep 4.

Crab, Other
Areas 1 to 29 Limit: 4 Apr 1 - Mar 31

You can even keep 6 starfish per day with a license (useful for those who want cheap food for their Harlequin shrimps).

babnika
09-27-2014, 05:32 PM
... I don't get it.
off j&l website Emerald Crab Mithrax sculptus Valonia $10.95 3/6/8 •Quantity discount amounts are as follows. (A/B/C): A: 20% B: 25% C: 30%
so if you buy 30 your only looking at $7.67 not bad when you figure where they came from.

albert_dao
09-27-2014, 06:07 PM
off j&l website Emerald Crab Mithrax sculptus Valonia $10.95 3/6/8 •Quantity discount amounts are as follows. (A/B/C): A: 20% B: 25% C: 30%
so if you buy 30 your only looking at $7.67 not bad when you figure where they came from.

Oh, you were being literal, haha. I thought I was missing some sorta inside joke.

Yah, too expensive. I'm poor yo.

GoFish
09-28-2014, 11:54 PM
2 months ago I collected a dozen of the little crabs from a tide pool by my house. the water temp was well above what my tank at home runs at so these little buggers are definitely capable of of handling 79 degrees. Looong term not totally sure. But after 2 months I have 9 out of 12 crabs remaining, one was killed in a fight with another the first day, another had only one claw so he was kinda doomed (but survived 3 weeks) and another one died last week, he was the only be I tried putting into a nano tank which I barely feed, sorry buddy :(...

Some of them are more scrappy than the others. There are many different species with different coloring.

I doubt they're as good at clearing algae than a hungry emerald crab (some of them do graze) but my last emerald slept all day hanging upside down and didn't appear to do anything anyway.

Happy to report all have been reef safe, haven't bothered any corals, fought or killed any of the tropical species of snails or hermits or fish, they just go after each other during feeding time especially the a Red one.
They get fed 1/4 of a silverside every couple weeks and extra NLS pellets that fall to the floor daily.

Do so at your own risk obviously, but I have no problems to report. Collecting them during summer from a warm tide pool made sense so there was less stress acclimating them but not sure how much of a difference there will be. Theyre probably gonna start wondering when summer will end?!

langley reefer
11-20-2014, 12:09 AM
I have a story to share. Probably about 15 years ago a friend of mine put a tiny.little crab he found at white rock in his ninety gallon reef. The crab promptly hid and was never seen again. Fast forward about a year and my friend was ver excited about adding a beautiful yellow and purple baby ribbon eel. All was fine on the first night but when he woke up the next morning and looked in his tank and found that crab about 20 times larger with the body of the eel in one claw and the head in the other. Most of the crabs on.local beaches are rock or mud crabs, which are predators.

mohammadali
11-20-2014, 12:41 AM
I have 2 emerald crab in my nano tank I had a lil bit bubble algae on LR but the emerlad crabs didn't clean the . I fed my fish lil by lil so the food don't sink still bubble algae is double now

Nicole.
11-20-2014, 11:54 PM
Didn't you buy a rhizo?..pretty sure those are expensive :mrgreen:

But in all seriousness, why take the risk of endangering a crab or your tank?

Just shell out the $10.

Samw
11-21-2014, 01:29 AM
Most of the little crabs on our local beaches that you find under rocks etc are commonly refered to as shore crabs.

The ones larger than a twoonie are not shore crabs and are probably one of the protected ones that require a license to harvest the adults such as Rock or Dungenous crab.

http://www.birdsonthebay.ca/pdf%20files/teacherletter-FoSBs2.pdf

"
Every kid loves to turn over rocks and chase shore crabs. It’s instinctual with prey of that size and speed and
harmlessness- like a game of cat and mouse. Johnny has a great day at the beach and on the bus home compares how
many crabs he caught with Melvin. Without realizing it, while enjoying the day on the beach, their visit harmed or killed
many crabs and other beach creatures.
The problem is that crabs die in buckets without plenty of water. They
have gills- they breathe water. Between March and June crabs are also
molting and breeding making them very vulnerable. Every year they are
innocently decimated over only 5 weeks when thousands of kids visit the
Beecher Place section of Crescent Beach.

"

"No bigger than a Twoonie
• Crabs that are larger than the size of a Twoonie are not shore or hermit crabs.
• They are most often juvenile Dungeness or Red rock crabs which are legally protected.
• It is against wildlife regulations to remove protected crabs from the ocean for more than the few minutes it takes to ID, size and sex them."
"

The Guy
11-21-2014, 04:18 AM
Katie at J&L gave me a tiny white crab about the size of a pencil eraser, I put him in my nano, I've seen him once in 2 months. I'm changing up to a 33 gallon nano soon so I'll have watch for him.

gobytron
01-19-2015, 11:47 PM
you're subjecting the poor little crabs to an environment that they are not genetically predisposed to survive in


um, that's kind of what we do in this hobby.

You could argue that due to the extreme difference in temp, it's worse, but really, we are still all doing exactly this.

No need for a high horse.

noisetherapy
01-20-2015, 12:23 AM
I looked into this kind of stuff when I went on vacation to Hawaii. Was going to bring back some dead rock to put in my tank.

The laws are nearly identical for Canadian livestock/rock.

Legal reasons: Don't do it, it's illegal.

Ethical reasons: Don't do it, it's biological torture.

There is no one physically stopping you and watching your sneaky endeavours, and you think you're saving yourself money with free livestock. Still not a good idea.

reeferious
01-20-2015, 08:35 AM
75 shorecrabs from outside lower mainland that's what I or my niece brings back from Vancouver island few times a year. in their niche habitat they hide to escape from innumerable predators, harsh environment but i take time to acclimatize them into my reef setups and believe probably doubling their lifespan as I often see quite a few larger ones that come out and gaze around. weight wise would 75 of these little guys equate to one dungenese or rock crab?

gregzz4
01-22-2015, 04:21 AM
No need for a high horse.
No High Horse intended. It's a forum and typing can't relay one's thoughts.

I was only pointing out my personal thoughts about taking cold water critters and placing them in a warm water environment, and the associated risks :wink:

I was also taking a poke in fun at the OP for doing something that is subjectively dangerous for both their tank and the introduced critters, and expected it to be taken as so.
After all, I did use a twisted emoticon

Samw
01-22-2015, 05:38 AM
I looked into this kind of stuff when I went on vacation to Hawaii. Was going to bring back some dead rock to put in my tank.

The laws are nearly identical for Canadian livestock/rock.

Legal reasons: Don't do it, it's illegal.



Specifically, it is illegal in the Lower Mainland (Area 28 and 29) but in other areas of BC it is legal to retain 75 per day with a tidal license. Children under 16 can get a free license.

In the context of the OP who is in the Lower Mainland, it is true that it is illegal to retain them. That said, I don't know if anyone is going to get fined for retaining a few shore crabs. :)

http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/licence-permis/index-eng.html#attention

"Children under 16 years old are required to obtain a licence, however there is no fee. "

http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/species-especes/shelltable-tableaucoquille-eng.htm

"Crab, Shore
Area 1 to 27 Limit: 75 Apr 1 - Mar 31
Area 28 and 29 Limit: 0 Closed "

Samw
01-22-2015, 05:57 AM
...and if OP was able to find hermit crabs or some other type of crab not listed in the "Shellfish - Species and Limits Table", he can retain 4 in all Areas in BC including Areas 28/29 (Lower Mainland) with a tidal license.

http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/species-especes/shelltable-tableaucoquille-eng.htm

"Crab, Other
Area 1 to 29 Limit: 4 Apr 1 - Mar 31"

gregzz4
01-22-2015, 07:16 AM
I'll say it again ...
Adding local shore crabs to one's tank is a risky business.
You run the risk of adding pathogens/diseases whatever to your tank.
And now are potentially adding them to the reefing community.
Diseases, pests and so forth come from somewhere;
Flatworms, nudibranchs, whatever.
We all do our best to keep them out of our tanks.

It would be different if these critters were coming from the same places we buy our crabs and shrimps from

You have NO idea what you are adding to your tank by adding crabs from your local shores.
And by doing so, you are adding them to our community.
Have fun with your crabs and I hope you don't incur any issues ...

Samw
01-22-2015, 07:27 AM
Not sure if this was a reply to my post. The point of my post was to simply state the laws and regulation. I am not suggesting OP to add crabs to his tank nor to add them to a species only tank either. I'm not giving advice. I am actually trying to minimize posting advice on this board lately :) But I sometimes post when I see misinformation. Just wanted to make sure there is no misinformation here as well. I kept posting the laws and regulations but people weren't reading them.

Some people keep saying they are legal, and some say they aren't even after the regulations have been posted. So I wanted to repost the regulations.

gregzz4
01-22-2015, 07:31 AM
Sam, I'm sure many people saw your posts concerning the laws and such.
But I'm also sure 10x as many people missed them :wink:

gobytron
01-22-2015, 06:37 PM
Jaywalking is also illegal.
So is speeding.

The legality of something isn't always the be all/end all of many scenarios.
It's good to know the rules though.

I wonder how many instances of the kind if rampant outbreak described above there actually have been within the aquarist hobby.

I just did a quick google search and didn't see anything come up.

It certainly sounds like something that could happen, but I'm no carcinologist and not privy to how their pathogens or pests and predators work.

In any case, It seems to be something that has been done, I imagine it happens fairly often.

That being said, I think it would be far more rewarding to create a natural environment, at least as far as salinity and temperature goes.

Then go and collect...IF you decide you want to run the discussed risks or get a licence rather than to go and grab something and toss it your tank, hoping for the best.

Coasting
01-22-2015, 06:55 PM
Good topic.
Ive been thinking of starting a tank where i live here on the island with only local beach critters at their temp and what not. Though i question what the proper temp is? When tides low in the summertime these crabs are in pretty warm water. Warmer then my 80degree tank in poco. Their temperatures change.so mucb and in such large ranges at the beach....

Samw
01-22-2015, 07:11 PM
Good god. Sorry for posting the regulations. The whole purpose of my posts were to respond to previous posts which deemed collection legal and others deeming them illegal with no references. Obviously jaywalking, speeding etc are obvious infractions. But I doubt that marine animal collection regulations were obvious. Thus, my references to the regulations. No where did I tell OP to do it or not to do it (never hinted that the regulations are the be/end all).

SeaHorse_Fanatic
01-22-2015, 10:08 PM
Samw,

I appreciate you posting the regulations in this thread. You can only inform people. It's up to them to take it or leave it.

Anthony

gobytron
03-17-2015, 07:11 PM
Good god. Sorry for posting the regulations. The whole purpose of my posts were to respond to previous posts which deemed collection legal and others deeming them illegal with no references. Obviously jaywalking, speeding etc are obvious infractions. But I doubt that marine animal collection regulations were obvious. Thus, my references to the regulations. No where did I tell OP to do it or not to do it (never hinted that the regulations are the be/end all).

Was referring the the over all theme in this thread, rather than your post directly.

If you read over the whole thread, you will see that this is essentially the heart of this discussion, even before you posted the regulations.

The debate here has largely been hinged on the legality.

My point was that it is a much broader issue than simply legal or illegal but I also posted that it's good to know the rules.

Samw
03-17-2015, 08:49 PM
Was referring the the over all theme in this thread, rather than your post directly.

If you read over the whole thread, you will see that this is essentially the heart of this discussion, even before you posted the regulations.

The debate here has largely been hinged on the legality.

My point was that it is a much broader issue than simply legal or illegal but I also posted that it's good to know the rules.

OK

RuGlu6
03-23-2015, 12:04 AM
um, that's kind of what we do in this hobby.

You could argue that due to the extreme difference in temp, it's worse, but really, we are still all doing exactly this.

No need for a high horse.


+1 on this.

If all of us would really care about well being of the ocean critters we would never put them in the glass box.
If we would care about any animals for that matter we would not buy and eat meat or sea food.
Eating chicken, ducks, pigs and cows will support killing of these animals.
But where do we draw the line? its 500 shades of gray between black and white.

The problem is in the system, where people are slaves to the system, banks, and corporations.
Where people have to work for money. So people will make money by killing animals, because there are other people who will pay to eat them or to watch them die in the fish tank, Zoo or public aquarium.
It is all the same.

RuGlu6
03-23-2015, 12:22 AM
In any beach in the lower mainland there is an endless supply of little crabs...

years ago in my fish only SW tank I used to put them in there...

They seem to do fine...

Has anyone done this in a reef tank ????

those darn emerald crabs are pretty expensive... !!!!

shore crabs, shore hermit crabs and shore cone snails will do fine in reef tank.
More so, and better chance of survival if you collect during hot summer days and in tidal pools where temp is high and it will be easier for them to get used to your tank environment.
Don't worry too much about introducing different types of bacteria in your tank because its already a pool of bacteria in billions per ml.
Local crabs will not help you with bubble algae at all, well not in the amount you need anyway.

Survival in closed environment depends largely on the critter's immune system and less so on our tank husbandry.

As for the hitchhikers like worms etc its no different when you buy anything from J&L or any other local pet store.


I hope that this will answer your question little better than the above ideological debate.

The Guy
03-23-2015, 12:24 AM
It's hard to believe this thread is being discussed "STILL". It's an easy answer "DON'T" do it! :nono: