Why balling properly is so important

[Aqua-Digital]

I have been asked to repost this a few times, it explains very simply the issues with balling light systems 3 parts system and 2 part systems and why it is important to follow the methods that the inventor of balling (hans werner balling) developed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZy7RS8kEag

[reeferfulton]

sorry ,

Who is the inventor again ??

[Aqua-Digital]

Hans Werner-Balling :mrgreen: :multi:

[reefermadness]

I guess regular water changes make his point about the additional sodium and chloride moot. I only say this after using regular 2 part on my aquarium for 5yrs and getting excellent results.

[xenon]

I guess regular water changes make his point about the additional sodium and chloride moot. I only say this after using regular 2 part on my aquarium for 5yrs and getting excellent results.

That's tough to argue with.

He says if you do the standard 10% water changes per week, you are only removing 10% of the ionic imbalance problem.

[Aqua-Digital]

I guess regular water changes make his point about the additional sodium and chloride moot. I only say this after using regular 2 part on my aquarium for 5yrs and getting excellent results.

this is the biggest trap people seem to fall into. If you change 20% of the water you only change 20% if the imbalance, leaving 80% unbalanced.

this is why it can take up to 8 weeks to stabilizes a system that switches to the correct balling method

You can argue with science the facts are so simple. 2 part and 3 part that does not employ NACL with all the 70 trace elements WILL cause an imbalance, whether you wish to believe true science or not is not my concern. However it goes back to the whole point of keeping corals and a marine system and that is to replicate nature,. By doing 2 part, balling light or however you wish to name it, you are trying to beat nature to save a few dollars but happy to throw expensive corals into that imbalanced environment.

Hans werner balling put his name to a system that replicates nature, why then try and cut it back and turn it into something its not or even try and disprove simple science?

Now thats where I struggle to understand the logic ;)

You may have good results right now but have you see what results you would get doing it properly, thats a very valid question also

[Aqua-Digital]

One other important point to add is that you cant use any old NACL the whole point of Hans's system is that you are adding sea salt to your system minus the salt, so the NACL you use must have ALL the 70 trace elements in it that your salt mix would have.

watch the last part of Hans speach in the video, he does explain this.

2 and 3 part leaves you with an imbalance of sodium chloride with nothing to balance it to. (unless you do a 100% water change, water changes will not stop this) The part C in TM's system balances the scales by giving the free sodium chloride left with the correct 70 elements to balance to. the combined result is SEA SALT! Neither 2 part or 3 part (balling light etc etc do this)

Yes TM's system raises very slightly your salinity (so does two part or 3 or balling light system) but the difference is the raised sodium in TM's original balling system is balanced with the correct other elements so any water change done in TM balling is balanced therefore any % water change does not leave an imbalance as the water is already balanced.

Plain simply unarguable science!

[reefermadness]

How can it be SO important if I can get world class results and an RCTOTM after over 5 yrs of regular 2 part use. And I was adding a lot more than the average user would.

Maybe the true balling. system is a better way but it won't make or break your system.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5xl3rtmlze9hz6o/FTS.JPG

[Aqua-Digital]

what every one forgets is that 2 parts and 3 parts are just cut down versions of natures way of doing it properly ie true balling. what are you trying to prove by cutting away at the proper way of doing something,

Yes running your car on half flat tyres will get you home but that does not mean its the right way to get home.

the questions are why make short cuts in an environment you are trying to replicate in nature? You may argue cost, well you are happy to spend $$$$ in trying to keep your new delicate species alive so why risk it with something that goes against the fundamentals of simple reef chemistry?

second is, yes there are some tank that look good on 2 part but there are also many tanks that were doing good and switched too the proper method and then did even better.

Lots of the great tanks show great photos rarely do they report the struggles. Its only coming to light now with proper education that short cuts are not needed and doing it properly reaps the benefits for those that wish not to argue with natures way.

Old saying you can take a horse to water but you cant make it drink.!!

We can all post fancy photos of corals until the cows come home but that does mean the system used is working to produce those colours, neither does it re write basic science. I can spend all day showing off colourful frags, but lets talk about the real reasons you should use the proper system.... TANK HEALTH, doing what is required in nature to provide the best environment for your system long term.

This is about doing it properly, doing it right, giving your system the best chance to work in harmony. Yes tanks do ok on other systems but is doing ok enough? Are you prepared too continue breaking the fundamentals of reef science when there is a system out there that does it as it should be done? what is there to gain from cutting this corner? I have read posts about fighting commercialism, any system is commercial even 2 part you still have to buy something to follow 2 part.

Balling is NOT about colouration thats only part of the story its about growth, health, long term balance.

There is nothing to gain by not doing it properly.

[reefermadness]

what every one forgets is that 2 parts and 3 parts are just cut down versions of natures way of doing it properly ie true balling.Since when is adding synthetic chemicals natures way of doing it properly (or at all)? Nothing we do in this hobby is natures way. We can't replicate it. A bit off topic.

what are you trying to prove by cutting away at the proper way of doing something, Not trying to prove anything, just trying to have a beautiful, thriving reef aquarium. The "proper way" is simply your opinion. Does the proper way mean there is only one way?

Yes running your car on half flat tyres will get you home but that does not mean its the right way to get home.huh, not sure Im following. I thought we were discussing aquarium dosing methods.

the questions are why make short cuts in an environment you are trying to replicate in nature? You may argue cost, well you are happy to spend $$$$ in trying to keep your new delicate species alive so why risk it with something that goes against the fundamentals of simple reef chemistry?I think you may be overstating the risks (which is why Im getting involved) or if there is a risk at all. Again I surely did not see any obvious negative effect.


second is, yes there are some tank that look good on 2 part but there are also many tanks that were doing good and switched too the proper method and then did even better.


Lots of the great tanks show great photos rarely do they report the struggles. Its only coming to light now with proper education that short cuts are not needed and doing it properly reaps the benefits for those that wish not to argue with natures way.Struggles of what? My tank was probably 90% grown from frags, healthy for many years straight. Im not going to argue that it was 2 part dosing alone that did this, just like I wouldnt argue if something went wrong that it was the cause. The problem with people making hard line statments that say only this way works is that people who do have problems go looking for answers and listen to these arguments. Ultimately this confuses them into changes that wont solve their problem.

Oh and nature again?

We can all post fancy photos of corals until the cows come home but that does mean the system used is working to produce those coloursSo now you are questioning whether or not I'm telling the truth?
neither does it re write basic science.Please show me these studies that show how these levels get elevated and/or depleted and the negative effects on corals because if that is the case Im not sure why my system had stayed so healthy for so long. Plus countless other personal friends and friends on forums who use simply 2 part as well.

I can spend all day showing off colourful frags,Hey I like pictures, but lets see some colourful colonies grown from frags instead.

but lets talk about the real reasons you should use the proper system.... TANK HEALTH, doing what is required in nature to provide the best environment for your system long term.Maybe in the 6th year my tank would have fallen apart?


This is about doing it properly, doing it right, giving your system the best chance to work in harmony Yes tanks do ok on other systems but is doing ok enough? Are you prepared too continue breaking the fundamentals of reef science when there is a system out there that does it as it should be done? Why such a staunch hard line on the subject. I really wouldnt be taking you to task if you didnt draw such a hard line on the subject. Firstly my tank was far beyond average or OK by any normal hobbyist standard. I was completely satisfied (and sometimes amazed) by the performance, health, colour etc. Doing it "as it should be done" is your opinion.

what is there to gain from cutting this corner? I have read posts about fighting commercialism, any system is commercial even 2 part you still have to buy something to follow 2 part. Im not fighting commercialism. Im simply doing what anyone does with any purchase. You do a cost benefit analysis. Just like I know that a bubble king skimmer would have been a better skimmer, I didnt purchase one. Why, well because of budget constraints and fact that the bubble king skimmer did not guarantee me better results over all with my tank. There are lots of great tanks not running the "best" possible equipment.

Now I will say chemistry is a little different. But nothing I've seen or experienced made me believe that I NEEDED to do a full balling system in order to have a gorgeous, thriving reef tank. Many TOTM's have ran ordinary 2 or 3 part systems.

FYI, I also have only used Instant Ocean. [gasp]


Balling is NOT about colouration thats only part of the story its about growth, health, long term balance.

There is nothing to gain by not doing it properly.There might not be anything to gain by not doing a full balling system but there might be anything to gain by doing it either.

[Aqua-Digital]

As I said you cna take a horse to water but you cant make it drink.

You say "the proper way" is my opinion, again its not my opinion its simple chemistry, You cant defy that fact. Its NOT an opinion, its natural science.

You are not showing any reason why NOT to do it.

TM Balling as developed by Hans Werner Balling is without argument the correct way to keep up with minerals of you tank. If you feel using a cut down method gains you some benefit over this than go for it. But for those that do believe in doing it properly the CORRECT system is available

I cant argue with someone that feels taking short cuts is the right way ;)

Bottom line until you try it you wont know. You can argue as a non user with every corner but the fact still remains, YOU DONT KNOW. :)

You also cant argue Hans Werner, if it had no requirement it would not be the biggest selling system in Europe and now catching on fast in the USA. It just took education to get the reasons for doing it right across.

You should have joined the webinar I think your eyes would have been very pleasantly opened. I know more than one that joined the series as against i as you and now are using it.

[reefermadness]

As I said you cna take a horse to water but you cant make it drink.

You say "the proper way" is my opinion, again its not my opinion its simple chemistry, You cant defy that fact. Its NOT an opinion, its natural science.

You are not showing any reason why NOT to do it.

TM Balling as developed by Hans Werner Balling is without argument the correct way to keep up with minerals of you tank. If you feel using a cut down method gains you some benefit over this than go for it. But for those that do believe in doing it properly the CORRECT system is available

I cant argue with someone that feels taking short cuts is the right way ;)

Bottom line until you try it you wont know. You can argue as a non user with every corner but the fact still remains, YOU DONT KNOW. :)

You are right, Im not showing any reason NOT to do it. I never stated any and wasnt trying to make a case for that at all. If anything there would be reasons to do it. Im just not sure that it makes enough or any difference.

The only reason I chose to speak up was because of your language and the way you made it seem like you are doing it wrong if you dont do it and that you wont get good results. My experience goes to the contrary of this.

You like metaphors so here is one. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

[Seriak]

Aqua is in the business of selling products. He has made a great sales pitch on why to buy the product he is selling. It's our job to research his pitch against the known facts. Pure and simple. I personally have had great success with 2-part. Would I have better success with Ballling? Maybe, but at this time, it's not worth the added cost.

[Aqua-Digital]

There is more than one way to skin a cat.

But there is only one way of doing it right, proven science ;)

Ok lets break this down

your corals remove the carbonate and calcium from the 2 part leaving you with "sodium chloride"

so now you have extra sodium chloride in you system an imbalance which cant be balanced by water changes as shown before.

You can keep doing your 2 part nobody is saying you cant but to address the chemical imbalance you need to add the NACL, not any NACL as that does not achieve much but NACL that has all the 70 trace elements.

So keep doing your 2 part, just think about adding Part C to the mix to create the right balance.

I am quite sure that would be very advantageous.

Part C is also not 3 part as sold which adds magnesium only! Part C in the TM original system is everything you find in sea salt but with the sodium chloride removed as you already have that in your system you are trying to balance.

So by adding TM NACL (part C) you create the balance.

Nobody says you have to buy the whole of A and B if you really are so against it, use your own, its the part C that matters

[Aqua-Digital]

Aqua is in the business of selling products. He has made a great sales pitch on why to buy the product he is selling. It's our job to research his pitch against the known facts. Pure and simple. I personally have had great success with 2-part. Would I have better success with Ballling? Maybe, but at this time, it's not worth the added cost.

I appreciate the post, thanks :)

Think about adding just Part C to your system then thats all you have to do. There is nothing different in TM A and B which is sodium and calcium other than being lab grade pure and certified. People opt to use the whole TM system as they feel more secure knowing it is proven and tested pure. But if thats not a concern then go with TM part C only and add the third stage to your system.

[reeferfulton]

But there is only one way of doing it right, proven science ;)



statements like this is what starts these arguments. . I wish that this hobby was as black and white as this statement .. Then everyone would have beautiful tanks and we would all be running them exactly the same..

But there is more then one way to skin a cat . and more then one way to have healthy beautiful corals .
I mean the amount of amazing tanks running driveway deicer , baking soda .. And forbid me for saying .. cheapo IO salt I have seen is enough proof for me.

Maybe I to am just tired of the way this product is being marketed. If i have to read another Hans-warner balling is the only right way thread again I may just have to close my account ...

Does a calcium reactor then also not cause an imbalance ? surely there is not all 70 trace elements in that media ..

[don.ald]

If one was to only use part c, how would you measure or test for dose amounts?

[reeferfulton]

So by adding TM NACL (part C) you create the balance.


furthermore .
Is there any studies done to show whether or not the imbalance actually has any ill effects on coral ? sure , even if the chemical science behind it shows how an imbalance can happen on paper .. Does it really even matter to the coral ?
somehow i doubt it

[Aqua-Digital]

Maybe I to am just tired of the way this product is being marketed. If i have to read another Hans-warner balling is the only right way thread again I may just have to close my account ...

Does a calcium reactor then also not cause an imbalance ? surely there is not all 70 trace elements in that media ..

#1 nobody asks anyone to read a thread thats your choice :lol:

#2 A calcium reactor do not do anything in a balanced way, you have zero control of anything other than effluent output, this is why balling has become so dominant now.

[Aqua-Digital]

furthermore .
Is there any studies done to show whether or not the imbalance actually has any ill effects on coral ? sure , even if the chemical science behind it shows how an imbalance can happen on paper .. Does it really even matter to the coral ?
somehow i doubt it

Yes, this was explained in the webinar and also Lou from Tropic marin can give you the details give him a call 413.367.0101 (ask for Lou) quite a few canreefers have he is happy to talk and will happily share with you even more science than I would admit to know.

Thats another thing with this product the guys that make it are happy to talk to anyone directly.

[reefwars]

this thread takes an interesting turn in the chemistry forum on RC for anyone who is interested in hearing both sides.

[reefwars]

I was going to reference to that, thanks for bringing that up. anyone wishing to post the link feel free.

I didn't want to post the link , I actually find all this interesting and I can see the arguments from both sides which makes it even more interesting :)

[Aqua-Digital]

A two part can be a "perfect" product (aside from salinity rising over time, as also happens with balling). It could be designed to exactly replace what is lost during calcification.:D

Yes this is true but 2 part give nothing to balance the system with. and thats the whole point that keeps being missed

[Aqua-Digital]

I didn't want to post the link , I actually find all this interesting and I can see the arguments from both sides which makes it even more interesting :)

good point ;) I dont get dragged into arguments over there, my personal feeling its just peddling a belief not a science.

[Aqua-Digital]

what exactly Balling accomplishes that a high quality two part cannot.

again simple to answer - two part leaves an imbalance nothing to adhere the free sodium chloride to. 2 part cannot balance the system.

[Aqua-Digital]

He assumes two parts have no trace elements. They can and do. Whether they have more or less than the balling method depends on how it is made.

EXACTLY! Thats why you use Part C so you know what is being added you need and is balanced to what you need.

The "how its made" bit scares me the most with 2 part and comes back to the reason why TM is trusted, you know what you use in effect makes up natural sea water minus the salt. No concerns or guess work, this statement alone shoots two part slap center in the foot.

[Aqua-Digital]

How to Select a Calcium and Alkalinity Supplementation Scheme
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/chem.htm


from it:

The rise in salinity of these products over time can be very roughly calculated, though there are several reasons why this calculation is only an estimate. For every 1000 meq of alkalinity added in this fashion (and the matching amount of calcium) these products will deliver on the order of 60 grams of other ions to the tank. In a tank with a low calcification demand (defined later to be 18.3 thousand meq of alkalinity per year in a 100 gallon tank (50 meq/day)) this effect will raise the salinity by 3 ppt per year (compared to a normal salinity of S ~35). In a high demand tank (defined later to be 219 thousand meq of alkalinity per year in a 100 gallon tank (600 meq/day)), the salinity will rise by 35 ppt in a year, or approximately doubling the salinity. Consequently, the salinity should be monitored closely in using these types of additives, especially in a tank with high calcification rates.

again exactly right with two part, where as true balling the rise is not out of balance and easily adjusted by water changes, where as the rise in salinity in 2 part leaves an out of balance system,

[Aqua-Digital]

Nobody is stating true balling does not raise salinity of course it does, however it raises it no different to adding new "REEF" salt to your tank. where as 2 part raises it by only adding the sodium chloride to your system, or as stated above some unknown amount of missing or apparent elements.

Most 2 parts use bicarb and calcium from sources never designed to go near a fish tank, no way were these balanced with corals needs in mind.

Thats the difference.

2 and 3 part are not completely the wrong way to do it, thats not true, however they are just missing the final ingredient to do it in a way that stops any fall off in balanced trace elements.

[mrhasan]

Part C should equal the depletion rate of Part B of your system is balanced. Part B is sodium Chloride.

I beg to differ! As far as I know (if what's written on the package is true), part B is Sodium Bicarbonate. :biggrin:

Sorry couldn't help myself :redface: I will just slowly move away now :razz:

[Aqua-Digital]

LOL yes sorry bad typo ;) thanks for correcting that. My bad :redface: modified to save a reef central back lash ;)

[mrhasan]

LOL yes sorry bad typo ;) thanks for correcting that. My bad :redface: modified to save a reef central back lash ;)

:razz:

Now...new era marine grazer is not a questionable product right Michael? Then why can't I find it anywhere in Calgary!!!!!!!!! :cry:

Sorry to highjack :redface:

[Aqua-Digital]

So to summerize before this all falls apart.

Hans werner balling developed a system that keeps your system in check by adding in balance all the required minerals to your system.

Just as with 2 part and 3 part Han's system also raises salinity but unlike 2-3 part it is raising it in balance meaning the remaining sodium chloride left behind that the corals do not consume is balanced with the part C + trace elements.

The left over sodium chloride in the balling system plus part C with the trace elements = natural sea water

The left over sodium chloride in 2-3 part does not, of if you wish to believe it comes with some trace elements, then more scary its adding things you have no clue of what or what amount.

[Aqua-Digital]

:razz:

Now...new era marine grazer is not a questionable product right Michael? Then why can't I find it anywhere in Calgary!!!!!!!!! :cry:

Sorry to highjack :redface:

???? everyone should have it, I know stores this time of year cut back on perishable dry goods as sales are typically lower, but we just shipped a large amount to wais. he will have it mid next week (due to canada day)

also concepts are doing an order get dave to replenish if out.

Pisces pets has it also

[reefwars]

LOL yes sorry bad typo ;) thanks for correcting that. My bad :redface: modified to save a reef central back lash ;)

lol

[Aqua-Digital]

Just want too clarify another point also when I talk about NACL I am talking about NACL FREE salt.

Of course NACL is salt ;)

Part C is NACL "FREE"

You got me going back checking my typos now before the RC crew go picking up on them! :redface::lol:

Part C is everything you find in reef salt minus the salt, NACL FREE PART C are your balancing elements that is added to your system which binds to the free swimming sodium chloride making balanced "reef salt" in effect

[reefwars]

Just want too clarify another point also when I talk about NACL I am talking about NACL FREE salt.

Of course NACL is salt ;)

Part C is NACL "FREE"

You got me going back checking my typos now before the RC crew go picking up on them! :redface::lol:

Part C is everything you find in reef salt minus the salt, NACL FREE PART C are your balancing elements that is added to your system which binds to the free swimming sodium chloride making balanced "reef salt" in effect



hope it wasnt out of place but i was just interested to see what the argument is from the other side of things , as hobbyist we all have what we think works and i know that TM is a trusted name in the game but as someone who uses randys recipe i wanted to see his thoughts on this thread were.

i would like to see claude, hans and randy having a coffee one day and be sitting at the table behind spying in lol

[Aqua-Digital]

another important point that was highlighted (and this is very valid question)

how do we know how many trace elements our tanks need? every tank is different

the question is probably the most important.

the answer also is important - WE DONT KNOW! thats why the original balling system ONLY adds what you find in reef salt, so no different than doing a water change.

where as 2 part 3 part leaves out a huge chunk of that process round abouts we go "imbalance"

[Aqua-Digital]

hope it wasnt out of place but i was just interested to see what the argument is from the other side of things , as hobbyist we all have what we think works and i know that TM is a trusted name in the game but as someone who uses randys recipe i wanted to see his thoughts on this thread were.

i would like to see claude, hans and randy having a coffee one day and be sitting at the table behind spying in lol

No not at all but you wont get much love from them in regards to a balanced argument.

I will try and sit on the fence as I have said you dont need to stop using the 2 elements you already are, if you are happy with the brand you use carry on. The difference is the need for balancing the left over sodium chloride. There seems to be this long standing in ground in granite that it does not matter, and to be honest nobody has done many published studies in its effects. The science is there the chemistry is there, hans goes into a lot more detail in regards to the effects having free floating sodium chloride has on both growth and colour of corals, (something to do with stopping further absorption of chloride and carbonates as they have nothing left to bind to) What marine biology and marine chemistry tells us is you have a greater fighting chance of success if you follow what nature requires. Cutting corners I just cant believe in when there is no real point in doing so.

So far the arguments on RC have not impressed me or given any real assurance why 2 part is cool. Even stating that they add an unkown quantity of trace elements should be a big red flag.

But I am not going to get drawn into the gurus that host the chemistry forum on RC, its never a wise battle, however I will happily put facts here that I have learned from both Tropic marin and Hans directly.

TM Hans, RF and Claude have got together I believe many times at conferences.

I have a mass of respect for RHF actually, his knowledge is amazing, I just cant agree with the 2-3 part concept thats all, its missing chunks of marine chemistry as Hans showed many years ago now that spawned all the off shoots such as two part. My personal thoughts are those off shoots came from the desire for DIY but had no access to the balanced NACL free trace elements, so it was simply omitted and the became popular and the science got left behind.

TM took many years in commercializing Hans system and now the inventor is playing catch up and fighting against the spawn of his own system. People do forget where 2 part came from ;)

[Aqua-Digital]

I just read on the RC reply thread that the assumption is 2 part "can have" the same elements that is in true balling.

This is where 2 part/ 3 part fall apart as there is no assurance to what you are dosing, there is "an assumption" its also a balanced system, BUT there is nobody to stand behind the assumed elements.

Anyway I think this could go epic if I dont close this so i will close with my personal thoughts which kind of already state what i said before.

This is my belief of history I write this for fun and just to put some light hearted thought into the whole debate.

Hans developed a marine chemist way of adding supplements in a balanced way

The desire for DIY took hold and the only two elements freely available were calcium and sodium bicarb.

NACL free with the trace elements Hans-Werner originally developed was forgotten as its not available in DIY format.

DIY became popular as its cheap, nobody for years questioned this too loudly.

Hans-Werner probably through frustration decided to commercialize his scientific system and is now fighting against the spawn of his orginal system which has been cut back to the bare bones employing often ungraded salt and unknown quantities iif any of minerals.

I will leave you the educated hobbyist to decide which system them feel is best for them. :)

My wife also wants to see my tonight not stuck to the PC. if you have any questions either email or call me you know I am always available to everyone ;)

Thank you to everyone for listening, please make your own thoughts as what is best for you.

[ReEf BoSs]

this is the biggest trap people seem to fall into. If you change 20% of the water you only change 20% if the imbalance, leaving 80% unbalanced.

this is why it can take up to 8 weeks to stabilizes a system that switches to the correct balling method

You can argue with science the facts are so simple. 2 part and 3 part that does not employ NACL with all the 70 trace elements WILL cause an imbalance, whether you wish to believe true science or not is not my concern. However it goes back to the whole point of keeping corals and a marine system and that is to replicate nature,. By doing 2 part, balling light or however you wish to name it, you are trying to beat nature to save a few dollars but happy to throw expensive corals into that imbalanced environment.

Hans werner balling put his name to a system that replicates nature, why then try and cut it back and turn it into something its not or even try and disprove simple science?

Now thats where I struggle to understand the logic ;)

You may have good results right now but have you see what results you would get doing it properly, thats a very valid question also

I didnt watch the video but how do you get a math equation that equals after one week the system is imbalanced and 20 percent water changes could not fix it, what about 30,40,90 there would be an amount for each system that would balance would there not be? Im not against it i also would rather dose than do a 90 percent water change Ew but without testing its all guessing no ?

[Aqua-Digital]

Here is an amazing article on Hans Werner Ballings method, well written and explains a lot for those that wish to follow the original balling method.

Many thanks to our friends at Ultimate Reef in the UK for this well written article
Written for UltimateReef by Alan Mullett (AlanM).
Published November, 2007 at UltimateReef.com

The Balling Method

INTRODUCTION
The primary elements consumed by corals and coralline algae need to be replaced at a rate which keeps up with the demand, with the aim that the levels of these elements remains stable. Stability is a key word often used and quite rightly so as in a reef environment the short term levels of elements (short as in decades) remain very constant with the consequence that reef inhabitants have not evolved for rapid changes in water parameters.

THE PRIMARY ELEMENTS
There will probably be debate between reef keepers for as longs as there are reef keepers about the aspects of the reef environment which are important to the survival and growth of coral inhabitants. For this I am going to limit the list to four which are:
Calcium
Carbonates
Magnesium
Everything else
The “Everything else” category is somewhat a catch all, but a valid one as you will see in the detail.

THE INGREDIENTS
It would be very nice if we could just take a drop of pure calcium, a drop of carbonate, a drop of magnesium and a drop of everything else and just drop them into the tank. The levels would all be added to and problem solved.

But we can’t just do that, the forms that they would take would not make them readily biologically available which is the whole point of doing it, so we need to look at other avenues.

What Hans Balling documented is a way of adding versions which can become biologically available and in combination which can be balanced with the other elements within the environment.

The short list of items to be added becomes:
Calcium chloride dihydrate (CaCl2-2H20)
Sodium Hydrogen Carbonate (Na HCO3) (aka Sodium bicarbonate – Baking Soda)
Magnesium Chloride Hexahydrate (MgCl2-6H2O)
NaCl free reef salts – your tub of reef crystals without the table salt.
Chuck them in, give it all a stir and there you go.

HOW TO BAKE A CAKE
Ok, so just chucking them all in and sticking it in the oven probably won’t get you a very nice cake, trust me, been there, lumps of dry flour and baking powder don’t do wonders for the taste.

In the same way throwing lots of powders into your tank isn’t going to endear you to your livestock either. They will probably do the obvious thing and fall over and die. So what we need to do is add them in a way that benefits them rather than kills them.

And at some point explain why we need #4 above.

If you look at #1 and #2 on the list you will find we are adding things we want:
Calcium
Carbonates

and things we didn’t want:
chloride
sodium

Now the ones of you who are still awake will notice that chloride and sodium look familiar in combination, Sodium Chloride may be one of the few compounds that most people know, common table salt, and is about 70% of the bucket of reef salts.

So if we do add #1 and #2 we end up with the additional calcium and carbonates which is good, and also more Sodium Chloride which we didn’t want, and so we need to do something about it. We can’t just pull it out of the water, it’s not that easy, but what we can do is add everything else from the bucket of reef salt to balance it all up again. So we add #4, the NaCl Free Reef Salts. With that addition we have now added:
Calcium
Carbonates
Reef Salt
Water

which looks quite a bit better. The only downside now is that we have added lots of salty liquid to the tank, a bit like topping up with mixed water rather than RO water, a mistake often made by beginners.

If you imagine your tank level or sump return level if you have one then the levels will now be higher than when we started. If we ignore evaporation for a moment then eventually your tank will overflow and you’ll have a wet floor. Thanks Hans! If we put evaporation back into play what will happen is that you will top up with less RO than normal which will increase the salinity of your tank over time.

The solution is simple; just remove as much as you add. Sum up the volumes in #1, #2 and #4 and then just take out that much tank water. It’ll put the levels back on track letting your top up do its job.

And, simply put, that is the basics of Balling. Add stuff, balance it out, and level it out.

A CHEMISTRY PRIMER, OR HOW TO WEIGH AN ATOM
So where were we, ah yes, we’ve just taken the cake out of the oven and it looks “interesting”. A slab of brown cake like stuff, looking good. We cut into it and the whole thing falls apart, and another aspect to cookery becomes apparent: you need to measure your ingredients. Just pouring stuff into the bowl doesn’t work.

So, how much do we use? For that we have to delve a little into chemistry looking at how much “stuff” weighs so we can weight it out.

The important factor is that we add calcium and carbonate in the same relative quantity that they are consumed. Biologically the consumption is

Ca2++2HCO3 <=> CaCO3 + CO2 + H2O

which means take one atom of Calcium and two molecules of Carbonate which combine to form one molecule of CalciumCarbonate, one molecule of carbon dioxide and one molecule of water.

From this we can tell several things:
That it is the Calcium (Ca) and Bicarbonate (HCO3) that are the inputs
That two units of Bicarbonate are used for each unit of Calcium
That carbon dioxide and water are by-products of calcification
So we need to ensure that we add the ingredients in the same proportion, that is two units of Bicarbonate for each unit of Calcium, and that we balance out the resulting NaCl with NaCl-Free salts.

In chemistry most measurements of the ‘amount’ of a molecule Is done in mol. Each mol of a substance contains the same number of elementary entities (atoms, molecules, etc), and normally it is the gram-mole which is used. A gram-mole is the quantity of a substance whose mass in grams is equal to its formula weight. This makes it quite easy to weight out substances so that they are in the relative quantities we need.

The important bit is working out the formula weight and for that we need to understand a little more about atoms. Each atom has a particular mass and these are well known quantities and appear on a periodic table of elements. The important elements to us for this purpose are:

Element Atomic number Atomic weight
Hydrogen (H) 1 1.00794
Carbon 6 12.0107
Oxygen (O) 8 15.9994
Sodium (Na) 11 22.9898
Magnesium (Mg) 12 24.305
Chloride (Cl) 17 35.453
Calcium (Ca) 20 40.078


and the way to determine the molar mass is to add up all of the bits to get the total atomic weight for one entity and then that amount in grams is one mole. Showing this makes it much easier:

Determine the atomic weight of CaCl2 - 2H20 by adding the atomic weights of the parts:

First determine the atomic weight of CaCl2

40.078 + 2x35.453 = 110.984

Then determine the atomic weight of H2O

2x1.00794 + 15.9994 = 18.01528

Then add them together remembering we have two molecules of water

110.984 + 2x18.01528 = 147.01

Determine the atomic weight of NaHCO3:

2.9898 + 1.00794 + 12.0107 + 3x15.9994 = 84.00664

So from this we now know that one mole of CaCl2-2H20 weighs 147.01 grams and one mole of NaHCO3 weighs 84.00664 grams. Thus as we need twice as much of one to the other it is simply a case of weighing out the proportionate amount, which is where Balling gets his often used figures of:
147g of CaCl2-2H2O
168g of NaHCO3

and he dilutes each of those to 2L of water, which now means that the same quantity of water from each contains proportionally correct amounts of the two ingredients. That dilution is done to a total volume of 2L, not 2L of water plus the ingredients, so the best way is to measure out 1.5L of water, add the chemicals and then top up to 2L by adding more water.

In those two mixes we now are adding those bits we want, and those bits we don’t which as we noted before is the Na from the NaHCO3 and the Cl2 from the CaCl2. Fortunately we are adding twice as much NaHCO3 as we are CaCl2 so for each unit of addition we have two units of NaCl resulting. So for each 2L added we are adding two moles of NaCl.

The atomic mass of NaCl is 58.443 which means we are adding 116.89 grams of NaCl for each 2L mix we add. As NaCl represents 70% of the ingredients of marine salts we now have to add the remaining 30% to get to a full marine salt mix. As 70% weighs 116.89 grams it means 100% weighs 167g, meaning that the 30% weighs 50 grams, once again the figure that Balling uses as the third container, a mix of 50g of NaCl-free salts to 2L water.

So we have ended up with three mixes of which we add in the same quantities to ensure a balanced addition that adds Calcium, Carbonate and balanced marine water.

[Aqua-Digital]

Part 2..

SO HOW MUCH DO WE ADD THEN?
Quite simply It depends upon your consumption, and for this you may have to guess a little, or if you are currently using other additives you should be able to work it out from the statements on the bottles which often say how much the bottle adds, you can then work out how much you are adding on a daily basis.

If you are not sure then an easy way of working it out is to stop adding anything, settle for a day and then take a Calcium reading on a daily basis at the same time. The difference between them will tell you how much in ppm (aka milligrams per litre) your tank is consuming. This figure is very useful as you end up with how many grams of Calcium you need to add a day – and it’s very easy to work out from that figure how much of the mix you need to add daily.

Let's assume you have done the above daily tests and you are losing 5ppm per day of Calcium, and that you are running a 200l tank (figures chosen to be easy).

This means that you are losing:
5 mg per litre x 200 litres = 1000 milligrams, or more commonly known as 1 gram.

We know that our first mix with CaCl2-2H2O has one mole of Ca per 2L, and that one mole of Ca weighs 40.078grams, so we now know that we have to add 1/40.078 moles of Ca a day. That means we have to add 1/40.078 of the 2L mix, which works out at 50ml per day.

There you go, for a 5ppm loss in a 200l tank you have to add 50ml of each mix, and then to balance out the water levels you have to remove 150ml of water from the tank.

You could look at this as simply 5ml of each mix per ppm loss per 100l of total volume. A handy figure meaning that you don't have to understand any of the above to be able to use the Balling Method. Just multiply up for your loss and for your size tank and use that amount.

AND THE MAGNESIUM PART?
Ah yes, that bit. Using the known figures of relative usage between Calcium and Magnesium on average it can be shown that for each 147g of CaCl2-2H2O we are adding we need to add 34g of MgCl2-6H2O. This can actually be simply added to the same 2L mix as the CaCl2-2H2O.

That figure is actually an average, and the best way of knowing what your tank is consuming is to measure it on a longer term basis and adjust the amount appropriately. For example, if your Mg is sinking relative to a stable Ca then increase the quantity in the mix.

One concern this raises is that we have fortified that mix with more Chloride than we are adding Sodium, and at this point in time this remains unresolved. Further investigation is being conducted as to the resolution of this. Simple solutions such as reducing the quantities of each to result in a balance of Na and Cl will throw out the Ca and HCO3 balance.

GETTING IT FROM THE MIX INTO THE TANK
So far we now have a number of containers with various mixes of chemicals in them allowing us to add calcium, carbonate and a balancing mix of NaCl-free salts. It would be totally feasible to perform the final step manually by measuring out a set amount on a very frequent basis and adding it too the tank, and then removing a carefully measured amount. The problem with this approach goes back to the quest for stability and easy of use. Building in manual processes should be avoided as they will always end up being put off until later.

So the best approach to take is to setup a means of automatically dosing the mixes and removing the excess tank water. There are a number of different products around which can do this; I use an Aquatronica for other tank automation so it makes sense to use the dosing pumps available for that. For standalone purposes GroTech do a triple dosing station which can be expanded up to eleven channels, which easily will cope with the demands of this process, and for GHL Profilux users a dosing pump is available for that as well.

Each of these devices are programmed in a different way, however they all will allow very small amounts to be added on a frequent basis rather than a small number of high amounts. This spreads the dosing evenly throughout the day keeping the levels stable rather than rising and falling. As the main consumption of Calcium and carbonates will be during the lit hours, the dosing can be restricted to that time.

It is advised to always dose into a location of high flow in order to mix the additive as quickly as possible, but do remember to avoid the situation where the feed line can become a source of siphoning from the tank into the mix containers and onto the floor. It is best to drip the mix in rather than having the feed ending under water.

With all of these devices setting the amount to be dosed is simply a case of entering it into the device, this is the good part with the Balling method, once the pumps are setup increasing the dosing rate is a very quick and easy job.

Finding Supplies
A number of chemicals are required to implement this method, fortunately now several companies are specifically packaging them up for this purpose along with the NaCl-Free salt.

Calcium Chloride-Dihydrate Balling salts
Sodium Bicarbonate Balling salts
Magnesium Chloride-Hexahydrate Balling salts
Magnesium Sulphate-Heptahydrate Balling salts
Chloride Free salts for Balling
Alternatives for the Chloride Free salts include:
Tropic Marin Pro-Special Mineral
Pries Special

When looking at the cost of the NaCl-Free salts do remember that they may appear expensive, but you are only buying the expensive parts of the salt and not buying the 70% common table salt part of a standard marine salt.

CONCLUSION
And that’s about it, the darker side on Calcium and Alk addition but well work delving into, as with Balling it’s simply a case up dialling up a higher addition if your consumption goes up (indicated by falling levels so keep testing) rather than having to fiddle with flow rates and the pH and alkalinity of effluent from a calcium reactor, or hitting the limits of addition using a Kalk stirrer.

[Aqua-Digital]

Aqua Digitals In conclusion,

I would rather post true facts rather than half baked comments with no science behind them or as seen elsewhere simply ridicule often personally and still not offer anything to the debate, if ridicule is the only defense of 2 -3 light then I have won this battle! But my purpose remains steadfast to bring valid information so the reading public can make an educated choice whether to follow the original system that is backed by both science and chemistry or a cut down version that reef chemistry alone I believe can simply disprove.

I hope to try and educate our readers with facts so they can make the balanced choice what is best for them, yes we are aware that for many 2 and 3 part or balling light however you wish to market it has become the standard, but what is so readily forgotten is where did these systems originate from? (Its seems likely Hans Werner Balling own system) and why did these systems decide too eliminate the one single ingredient that is the most important? NACL-free salt that contains all the correct added elements not just NACL-Free.

So far from the debate that has been raging I have seen no evidence that backs not adding NACL-Free with all the trace elements is correct, however science dictated the opposite with the Hans-Werner Ballings original method that possibly spawned these derivatives.

However I believe the spin off products came from han's system and as yet nobody has given any valid reason why this chemically proven equation that hans put his name to needed to be changed other than the fact of cost/ commercial availability of the missing link that is NACL-Free salt with the added 70 trace elements that = what is in your reef salt.

Now that you can get the right ratios everyone now has the option to add back what Hans proved and developed years ago, you can still keep using your same 2/3 part mixes of you so wish, just add the NACL-Free from Tropic Marin and see if after a year you notice some differences.

I have seen some argue that "I am doing ok without it" BUT how well will you do with it? The answer is you dont know, the effects of the imbalances have been proven to be subtle it takes time to show up, and sometimes it does not at all, corals come corals go. Maybe just maybe by following the system as designed you may just get even better success than you are having now.

If all I have managed to do is make a few people think outside what they thought was normal and look at how things were originally designed to be achieved, then I hope my time typing has been of benefit.. Then its up to our great community to decide if what they read is right for them.

Change sometimes is hard to accept more so when its coming from the distributor, and this is why I research all my facts before posting and try and keep things as level as possible with facts and not commercial hype. If you choose to do it the original way then great, if not I do hope you picked up some interest and knowledge along the way. I know I have learned a lot from Tropic Marin in the last year.

Some ask why I close these threads the reason is simple, we are putting our heads above the parapet going against what many class as standard and correct or are protecting their own commercial products and sometimes even I need a break from the cheap shots, we all are human, so when it gets too heated I calm the thread down for a few days then will re-open it. But I hope this debate can stay level so I can leave it open.

I also urge anyone to call Tropic Marin directly and speak to them with all the questions you may have.

[Aqua-Digital]

Here is another great debate thread, well structured with good info all be very similar to what i have said above

http://www.3reef.com/threads/balling...-video.152078/

What I am finding interesting as the debate continues, the 2 part or 3 part advocates whether commercial or otherwise have STILL not come to the table with anything other than often personal (kindergarten name calling I am reading elsewhere) attacks against the chemistry of Hans-Werners proven chemically balanced system. The debate is not about a photo of a fancy coral or 2 part outselling the original system. Its about providing insight into what is renowned as the balanced way of doing the job.

I am not saying you MUST use this or your tank will explode, I am giving the insight so you can make your own personal balanced choice what you feel is right for you.

I am going to stick to the science and the proven chemistry in this debate of the original balling system, nobody yet has disproved that. The chemistry speaks for itself. whether harmful or not by not following Hans-Werner is a difficult topic, but the whole purpose is to highlight that IF YOU WANT to you can get the balancing product in one simple box of salt and not have to worry about adding other liquid supplements.

the debate is about having access to the right NSACL-Free salts that comes with all the correct trace elements already included (no other supplements required to be added)

We all know 2 part has a huge following, this is NOT the debate, the debate is more about now that everyone has access to the missing link they can IF THEY CHOOSE to now follow balling as it was originally designed.

I am interested to hear instead as a debate how the 3 part users and suppliers do feel what Hans Werner Balling probably one of the most respected people in reef chemistry and marine biology can be discounted as "rubbish" without any science to back up the claims that NACL-Free plus the right ratio of trace elements is rubbished and not required. How can you claim clear and simple chemistry is rubbish, this is what confuses me and has turned this into a debate.

Yes there are other NACL-Free mixes on the market but they require still the addition of other elements to follow the system as designed, this is where TM win by offering a one shot salt mix for those that wish to try the original system easily and more affordably.

Its up to the buying public to decide what they feel is best for them. I have laid out the road map its up to the user to decide now what route suits them the most.

As always I try and write as best as possible from the heart and mind trying to not sound too commercial ;)

To put the commercial aspect into perceptive we make less than $2 on every 1kg of NACL a dealer purchases from us, I could be spending my time promoting something we make $100 on, but I have a passion on providing what I feel is worthy info that you all may find of interest. I hope you all have learned something as much as I ;) If you go onto to try it out great, but if not, I appreciate the time spent reading up on it and the world will continue to revolve ;)

[Aqua-Digital]

Sorry about the few typos above (leaving out Free from an NACL line etc) ;)

Off now too pick up my precious little one ;)

I will leave this open for any questions (please keep it on topic and not personal to keep things flowing)

if you want too try TM for free just send me a PM.

Thanks guys.