Brad's 100 'n Change Cube-like Journal

[pinkreef]

Ok good

[Aquattro]

Man that sucks. All that work.
I vote for plan B and C

I'm voting A :) But I'll add a wrasse for now, and watch. No other pieces look affected, but who knows. These things don't show until it's bad.

[Proteus]

Oh that sucks. I'd Def go with wrasse and shrimp first. Was it just one frag or multiple

[Aquattro]

Oh that sucks. I'd Def go with wrasse and shrimp first. Was it just one frag or multiple

Just one for now, but I'm sure they're elsewhere too. I baste everything often, so I'm sure I've blown some into the water column.

[sphelps]

Don't dragon pipefish eat AEFWs? Pretty cool addition regardless and I'd think they'd be pretty effective at getting in the tight spots.

[Aquattro]

Don't dragon pipefish eat AEFWs? Pretty cool addition regardless and I'd think they'd be pretty effective at getting in the tight spots.

I think flow might be an issue, they seem to like lagoon style environments. I think.

[reefwars]

It's red bugs they eat I've never heard of them eating aefw but who knows:)

[reefwars]

They can handle flow they don't actually swim much Snappy has then in his sps tank, kien did too:)

[Aquattro]

I think they would compete with mandarins as well, so probably not a good choice.

[Proteus]

I've read about people basting rock and acros 2/3x a day and being able to disrupt the fw cycle

[Aquattro]

I've read about people basting rock and acros 2/3x a day and being able to disrupt the fw cycle

lol :) Ya, not gonna happen. Wrasse and shrimp can do their thing, or I live with it.

[gregzz4]

Holee, sucks to be you right now
But you don't have my issues, so we're even :razz:

Why shrimps ... ? For what purpose I mean ... ?

So you're leaning towards plan A for now ?
I'd go either;
Plan B with a Yellow Coris and/or Melanurus or ...
Plan C as you mentioned something about a Mandarin ?

I have both wrasses, plus a Scooter and Hector's
The Hector's is doing fine (over a year all fish together), but the Scooter is looking a tad thin right now
I don't know if he'll make it, but the wifey won't let me sell him, so I'm trying my best to fatten him back up

So, my point is, if you already have your mind set on a Mandarin, go with plan C and turf those AEFWs now in whatever cruel way you deem fitting

And BTW, I'm baaack
I went straight from XPPro to a shiny new 8.1 system. So I can now play on the web again :smile:

[Aquattro]

I already have a pair of mandarins, so that's that :)

I'll add a yellow coris, see what that does, and some peps if I can find any. Not overly concerned about it. If I have to move to a non acro SPS tank, I think that could look really cool. So if it goes that way, so be it. Not gonna stress over it. Just a tank. I have more important things to occupy my stress -lol

[Proteus]

Why shrimps ... ? For what purpose I mean ... ?

:

Peppermints will eat fw

[gregzz4]

Interesting

[Aquattro]

Peppermints will eat fw

That's what I was told anyway, but always cool to have shrimps running around, eating bits of food

[gregzz4]

That's what I was told anyway, but always cool to have shrimps running around, eating bits of food
Or rather, hang around waiting for you to feed the fish, and then steal food from your corals :rolleyes:
I have a peppermint, cleaner and fire
All they do is sit around waiting for something to happen. Mind you, the peppermint did eat the aptaisia ... and the cleaner does a good job of freaking out the fish when he tries to clean them LOL

[Aquattro]

Or rather, hang around waiting for you to feed the fish, and then steal food from your corals :rolleyes:


I don't feed corals, so they better not rely on that to eat! No aiptaisa either, so if they want food, eat flatworms!

[gregzz4]

I don't feed corals, so they better not rely on that to eat! No aiptaisa either, so if they want food, eat flatworms!
Mine are ornamental and are surviving just fine on whatever is leftover/floating by

[Aquattro]

Mine are ornamental and are surviving just fine on whatever is leftover/floating by

aiptaisa??

[gregzz4]

aiptaisa??
???

Yes, I had Aiptasia (sic)
The peppermint cleared it all ( that I can see anyway ) in the first 2 days

Why do you ask ?

[Aquattro]

???

Yes, I had Aiptasia (sic)
The peppermint cleared it all ( that I can see anyway ) in the first 2 days

Why do you ask ?

no, I thought you meant your aiptasia were ornamental. nvm :)

[gregzz4]

no, I thought you meant your aiptasia were ornamental. nvm :)
:doh:

But I do have a lot of ornamental GHA

[apexifd]

Option D borrow the wrasse from Wayne, he has too many anyway. Leopard will probably live longer in your tank.

[Aquattro]

Option D borrow the wrasse from Wayne, he has too many anyway. Leopard will probably live longer in your tank.

I would have to kill Wayne to get a wrasse from him :) I have a leopard anyway, it doesn't go near the corals.
I have a yellow coris and secretive reserved. Just need to find peppermint shrimp.

[apexifd]

I would have to kill Wayne to get a wrasse from him :) I have a leopard anyway, it doesn't go near the corals.
I have a yellow coris and secretive reserved. Just need to find peppermint shrimp.

Well.. If you have to kill Wayne and save the life of many wrasse? Do it

[Aquattro]

Another month down, decided to start growing out some cyano, lots available, free shipping with any order -lol

Growth is slower than I'd like, likely due to PO4 levels higher than optimum. Colors are good on some pieces, lacking on others, some pieces got tossed. Overall, just waiting another 4 - 8 weeks, if I'm not happy with it I'll get a box of real rock.
Seriously regret using dead rock, most difficult tank build I've ever done.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd101/reef_raf/oct3a_zps841240b0.jpg

[don.ald]

4-8 weeks more and your rock will be real!:mrgreen:

[gregzz4]

Seriously regret using dead rock, most difficult tank build I've ever done
I hear ya

My only tank but still regret it

What's your MH photoperiod ? I'm gonna change my T5 schedule to emulate MH intensity

[Aquattro]

4-8 weeks more and your rock will be real!:mrgreen:

That's what everyone tells me, so I'll wait until the end of November to make any decisions, but my gut instinct is that no, it will still be dirty sludgy rock full of decay.
I've built a lot of tanks over the years, and I thought I knew better, but went with popular opinion and used cheap dead rock. That was a mistake. It may clean up, but I'm budgeting for a box of rock now :)

[gregzz4]

I'm budgeting for a box of rock now :)
Good plan
I'm thinking about firing up some tubs to cure new-to-me rock and start over

[Aquattro]

What's your MH photoperiod ? I'm gonna change my T5 schedule to emulate MH intensity

7 hours. Overall, hair algae is almost gone, rock is looking cleaner, and it may turn out ok. Gonna chemiclean it one of these days to clear up the cyano. Adding back my Tunze 6095s and adding a larger return pump this weekend. Need more turn over through sump and better flow on the rock.

[gregzz4]

7 hours
And what's your actinics ?

[Aquattro]

Good plan
I'm thinking about firing up some tubs to cure new-to-me rock and start over

I wouldn't do "new to me" rock. Get over to J&L and buy a box.

[gregzz4]

And that 7 hours is 2 x 400watts ?

Sorry, I forget

[gregzz4]

I wouldn't do "new to me" rock. Get over to J&L and buy a box.
Ya, that's gonna take a lot of frags to pay for ...

[Aquattro]

And what's your actinics ?

8am to 11pm

[Aquattro]

And that 7 hours is 2 x 400watts ?

Sorry, I forget

Correct

[Aquattro]

Ya, that's gonna take a lot of frags to pay for ...

It's $300, think of the grief you'd save. I have never, in all my years, ever had problems using fresh live rock. The bit of money saved going dry or dead just isn't worth it. That's my take anyway.

[Aquattro]

Also, I can't help but notice I'm missing a large anthias. Pretty sure that's not helping :)

[gregzz4]

8am to 11pm

Correct
Wow
I really have to re-think my light timers
You have way more light than I, but I can't keep my corals from bleaching if I do what you do

Maybe if I slowly ramp up my timers the corals will out-compete my GHA issue (wishful thinking)

Anyway, enough about me

Your tank is looking great so far (cyano aside)

Hope you don't need to change the rock :smile:

[reefwars]

That's what everyone tells me, so I'll wait until the end of November to make any decisions, but my gut instinct is that no, it will still be dirty sludgy rock full of decay.
I've built a lot of tanks over the years, and I thought I knew better, but went with popular opinion and used cheap dead rock. That was a mistake. It may clean up, but I'm budgeting for a box of rock now :)

i never have issues with it , even on my new build its all dry pukani and i am having no nutrient issues or po4 issues. quick diatom bloom but thats about it:)

i used hundred of pounds of it in our 500g tank and that too went fine with no curing, added in sept fish in after a few weeks later:)

[Aquattro]

I dunno Denny, I read so many threads where people have issues, then comments like yours. So I said screw it, and used dead because of the pieces I had access to. But for me, it has been a problem. Where anytime I've used fresh rock, no issues ever.
Then you read threads about the 12 years worth of curing you need to do, and I question why go through all that when real rock is just a bit more, especially for sub 100g tanks. For me, time is money and I would rather spend an extra 100 bucks or so and just enjoy watching my reef, not trying to fit my lawn mower in it :)

[gregzz4]

It's $300
I'm looking at about $400 for 50lbs, give or take

Also, I can't help but notice I'm missing a large anthias. Pretty sure that's not helping :)
Nothing like added waste/rot to mess with your new tank
Hope you find it sometime

I had a wrasse go missing last month, but I expected it
Found him the next day, and it was like something from a piranha movie - all bones and such

[gregzz4]

not trying to fit my lawn mower in it :)
Nailed

[Aquattro]

Ya, the Anthias was old and on it's last legs, er, fins, and I knew it would be going soon, Just kinda forgot about it tho, and now notice it's missing. Pretty sure I won't find any of it. Mixing 50g of new water, going to dose chemiclean and do a 50% water change.

[Aquattro]

I'm looking at about $400 for 50lbs, give or take


50lb x 5.95/lb is 297 plus tax.

[kien]

White sand is boring anyway. The cyano adds colour.

[reefwars]

I dunno Denny, I read so many threads where people have issues, then comments like yours. So I said screw it, and used dead because of the pieces I had access to. But for me, it has been a problem. Where anytime I've used fresh rock, no issues ever.
Then you read threads about the 12 years worth of curing you need to do, and I question why go through all that when real rock is just a bit more, especially for sub 100g tanks. For me, time is money and I would rather spend an extra 100 bucks or so and just enjoy watching my reef, not trying to fit my lawn mower in it :)

i agree , nothing beats liverock thats for sure. i hear all the time of people who run into issues with the dry rock....maybe the way i do it is just different lol no curing, no acid, no bleach just add water and walk away lol if it helps any i start carbon dosing right out the gate.i run gfo for the first bit until the bacteria can take the load.

every rock is diff though some are saturated in dried up sponges, crab claws etc.

i didnt go with liverock this time around even though i had some lying around as we dry scaped and worked on the tank all summer;)

stay tuned for tank journal!!

good luck with it buddy, youll pull through just fine:)

[gregzz4]

50lb x 5.95/lb is 297 plus tax.
I'll have to negotiate that price here ....

[Proteus]

I used all dry rock and it's just getting colour to it now. The dry rock really seemed void of micro fauna and once I added some nice clean live rock the dry really woke up..

[gregzz4]

50lb x 5.95/lb is 297 plus tax.
Oh, NM, I see they've dropped their prices

[Aquattro]

I used all dry rock and it's just getting colour to it now. The dry rock really seemed void of micro fauna and once I added some nice clean live rock the dry really woke up..

I did use about 20% live, so that helped, but it's still a PITA :)

[Aquattro]

Quick update, getting kinda done with this nonsense.

Currently the fish I could catch are in treatment tank, suffering from who knows what. Looks almost like velvet, but been fighting it longer than fish would last with velvet.
Achilles is dead, 3 Bartletts, a Lyretail and my male Mandarin.

Not enjoying my "hobby" right now :(

[Reef Pilot]

Sorry to read this, Brad. Haven't kept up with your whole tank rebuild, but from what I have seen, you are having a few challenges. Hope you get it all worked out, and get back to the glory days,... where you couldn't do any wrong. You had some pretty impressive coral displays.

[Aquattro]

Thanks! :) I'm sure it will all come together by next year. Just a challenge with this build that I haven't had to deal with in the past. I'm guessing this is a bad outbreak of ich, and hopefully what's left makes it through treatment. Corals are doing well, despite high PO4.
This is just becoming more work than I really want to put into a tank! And losing my favorite fish sucks big time...

[Reef Pilot]

Yeah,... you've had such a great tank for so long, you're just out of practice with dealing with all the mundane problems the rest of us have... But I'm sure you will figure it out...

[Aquattro]

Yeah,... you've had such a great tank for so long, you're just out of practice with dealing with all the mundane problems the rest of us have... But I'm sure you will figure it out...

Well, I read all the threads with those problems, so I have a head start :) Algae issues are gone, just dealing with my bad decision to use this rock.

I'm also not as impressed with my zeo system as I used to be, might toss it and try something else. And I'm close to a reset with real rock, just not eager to undo what I've done so far..

[Reef Pilot]

Yeah, I still remember when I added dry rock to my tanks a couple years ago. Despite cycling it in my QT for a couple months, with lots of rinsing, I still had a little P04 spike after adding it to my display tanks. However, it was well mixed with my existing live rock (50:50), so didn't take too long to stabilize in the tank. But it took quite a while longer before coralline finally covered it, and it ceased trapping detritus (which the GHA loves).

I don't know how the guys that start with only dry rock do it. Must take a long time before it becomes fully live the same as regular live rock.

[Doug]

Sorry about the problems Brad. Hope it turns around

[Aquattro]

I don't know how the guys that start with only dry rock do it. Must take a long time before it becomes fully live the same as regular live rock.

Agreed, I don't know how they deal with the issues. I guess some don't. I'd never do this again though, just not worth the grief I'm dealing with. This is supposed to be relaxing :)

[Aquattro]

Sorry about the problems Brad. Hope it turns around

Thanks Doug. I'm sure it will, just needs some extra coaxing -lol

[reefwars]

Yeah, I still remember when I added dry rock to my tanks a couple years ago. Despite cycling it in my QT for a couple months, with lots of rinsing, Igod ill had a little P04 spike after adding it to my display tanks. However, it was well mixed with my existing live rock (50:50), so didn't take too long to stabilize in the tank. But it took quite a while longer before coralline finally covered it, and it ceased trapping detritus (which the GHA loves).

I don't know how the guys that start with only dry rock do it. Must take a long time before it becomes fully live the i same as regular live rock.

I found it easy to use , our new setup has no live what so ever as well I encountered no algae blooms or readable nitrates or phosphates and Still don't:)

I did start carbon dosing vinegar the day water was filled and tank is running with all kinds of corals and fish......guess I got lucky:)

No acid wash , bleach , 3 mths in the dark etc. Just plain old husbandry and a little bacteria help .

No water changes yet since initial fill and still on my first batch of gfo

I do read of issues all the time though with it so there must be some merit to it for sure:)

[Reef Pilot]

I found it easy to use , our new setup has no live what so ever as well I encountered no algae blooms or readable nitrates or phosphates and Still don't:)

I did start carbon dosing vinegar the day water was filled and tank is running with all kinds of corals and fish......guess I got lucky:)

No acid wash , bleach , 3 mths in the dark etc. Just plain old husbandry and a little bacteria help .

No water changes yet since initial fill and still on my first batch of gfo

I do read of issues all the time though with it so there must be some merit to it for sure:)
Your vinegar dosing from day 1 probably helped. And what "bacteria help" did you use? You also probably had a good skimmer, so P04 didn't have a chance to form in the water.

[WarDog]

Sorry to hear about the losses Brad.

[reefwars]

Your vinegar dosing from day 1 probably helped. And what "bacteria help" did you use? You also probably had a good skimmer, so P04 didn't have a chance to form in the water.

The natural bacteria the system grew :)

It did and the skimmers rated prob double , the key was staying on top from the beginning as well while the tank has fish their bioload I'd consider small as they are small fish:)

Other than that it's a normal running reef:)

[Aquattro]

I'm thinking of vodka dosing, and maybe vinegar in the tank. I've stayed on top of things as best I can with all the other stuff going on, and overall I've done well. I had lots of GHA, and that's all gone, and the rock is mostly bare. I have feather dusters growing, and sponges in the sump, so it's getting there, and I'm sure if I'm patient enough, things will work out.
Dosing foz down again, as stopping saw PO4 rise again, so I'll probably keep that going for another few months. NO3 is less than 3ppm, so manageable, and I'm reducing my water changes to 25% bi-weekly going forward. Give things a chance to settle in.
Just trying to keep fish alive for now, tank is overall nice, and maybe I need Wayne to take some close ups :) PO4 is inhibiting growth I suspect, but things are growing.

[gregzz4]

Argh
Sorry to hear I'm not the only one with issues

[Myka]

Sorry to hear about your troubles Brad. I know of lots of people having trouble with dry rock from all sorts of different sources. Some of my clients have dry rock in their tanks too, and the tanks are terrible to maintain. It seems like it takes 8-12 months just for it to look half decent. I'm with you - I'd rather just pay more and enjoy the tank now. Looking at that last pic you posted and the age of the tank, I'm guessing you have at least another 3 months battle ahead. At least you have real lights over it! ;)

I have some old, old live rock that's been cooking in vats for years - some of it like 6 years. Sometimes the barrel is only half filled with (very salty) water. It has a MaxiJet, no heater. Over the years I have added this to my tanks, removed it from tanks, it's like the rotating rock bin. Even using this old, lifeless, white rock is so much better than the dry rock. Probably because instead of being "dead" it is "sterilized". Haha!

[Aquattro]

Mindy, ya, I would guess another 3 - 6 months. However, I've now lost all my fish and am considering not doing this anymore

[reefwars]

Mindy, ya, I would guess another 3 - 6 months. However, I've now lost all my fish and am considering not doing this anymore

that sucks man , its frustrating when you work hard on something and it doesnt go well. what happened to the fish?


sometimes it just helps to walk away for a bit , maybe doing to much even if intentions are good isnt good for the new tank.

if your in a place now where the tank isnt enjoyable and results arnt going good then id take a breather and put the tank on auto mode.

dont buy new fish for a good while and let the system mature and just focus on the corals in there for a bit.

theres a few hard lessons to this rock , one is its filthy and filled with all kinds of dried up organics (crab claws/urchins/sponges etc) , adding any kind of bioload to this rock (pukani/fiji) when its first introduced creates big problems and the minute saltwater hits this rock the chemical reactions start , you can stay on top of it but it def becomes an issue wth the more fish you have.

good luck buddy and chin up my bonsai had to be shut down for similiar reasons i had a mass ich outbreak that wiped out half the pop and rebuilt the tank two times from hydroid infestations ....that tank got shut down at the end of the summer and i went for the last year and a bit with no display just tanks for the corals.

feeling better these days so started a display and frustrations are minimal this time around so far:)

[hillegom]

That's terrible that you lost your fish again. So heartbreaking!
I would go with what reefwars says, leave the tank fishless for a time, corals only.

[MitchM]

I would shut it down and watch an empty tank for a while.
It could give you a different perspective from present problems, jmo.
I'm doing that with mine for only a week so far and already thinking about a better future tank setup.
Lifting the nagging maintenance burden from the shoulders could be a well deserved break.

[lastlight]

agreed fishless sounds like a good idea. or just let it run without fish, corals or lights for a few months and forget about it. wait until your desire returns. good luck!

[Doug]

That's terrible that you lost your fish again. So heartbreaking!
I would go with what reefwars says, leave the tank fishless for a time, corals only.


Me three:mrgreen:

[Reef Pilot]

Me three:mrgreen:
Me four...:smile:
Maybe a few shrimp and crabs, but no fish, for at least 3 months. But we do want to see the corals again.

[Myka]

Mindy, ya, I would guess another 3 - 6 months. However, I've now lost all my fish and am considering not doing this anymore

Ugh. :( Go fishless for awhile. My 50 had a single Blue Eye Cardinal in it for the last year before I decided to stock it up a few months ago.

[gregzz4]

Mindy, ya, I would guess another 3 - 6 months. However, I've now lost all my fish and am considering not doing this anymore
Yikes :frusty:

What happened ?

I like the idea of you going fish-less for a bit to stabilize your tank
Then you could exchange the crap rock with some LR

Chin up bud
You know you want to keep doing it :lol:

PS, I'm kinda getting there with my tank .. the whole idea of a total reset. Remove the junk rock and start with real rock
Little tank for frags, maybe a tank for the fish ... let it stew for a bit while I have a breather and calm down as I'm kinda ****ed about my tank
Maybe even another tub of LR for cooking ....

[tang daddy]

Brad sorry to hear about the losses of your fish, how are the other fishes doing?
I was trying to read through your journal quickly this morning. Did you get rid of the cyano?

[Aquattro]

Brad sorry to hear about the losses of your fish, how are the other fishes doing?
I was trying to read through your journal quickly this morning. Did you get rid of the cyano?

Thanks Chris. I have a pair of clowns and a Leopard wrasse left. Yes, cyano let a while ago, just chmicleaned it.

[kien]

:-(

:hug:

[Aquattro]

So, new month, but not posting a pic. Looks just like last month but without fish.

Started VSV dosing last weekend, overall impressed. However, while the NO3 was cut in half, PO4 went up. Skimmer took out tons of gunk, especially compared to what it did WITH fish. This last week gave twice as much skimmate.

This tells me the following.. excess bacteria were created via dosing. They used half the nitrate available, and a corresponding amount if PO4. Not sure what the ratio is, but P should have dropped over the week. It went up 20%.

So it appears that the rock is leaching faster than dosing can remove it. Not surprising.
I'm ordering a couple boxes of real rock and will rebuild once I get it and cure it. Maybe I can finally get some growth out of the corals.

It'll be fun! (riiight)

[kien]

I think you just happened to discover another one of the many no-win situations in this hobby. Dead rock is awesome but dead rock sucks! Live rock is awesome, but live rock sucks! You just have to decide which is the lesser of the suck, I guess.

[Aquattro]

I think you just happened to discover another one of the many no-win situations in this hobby. Dead rock is awesome but dead rock sucks! Live rock is awesome, but live rock sucks! You just have to decide which is the lesser of the suck, I guess.

I'm not getting the part about live rock sucking?? Always been really happy with any I've bought.

[kien]

I'm not getting the part about live rock sucking?? Always been really happy with any I've bought.

Hopefully your luck hold! If not, aiptasiaX and flatworm exit works wonders !

[Aquattro]

Hopefully your luck hold! If not, aiptasiaX and flatworm exit works wonders !

Hopefully :) I've never actually had a red planaria in all my time in, and aiptasia have never been an issue for me. If I get a couple, easy enough to deal with for the benefit of real rock.

[kien]

Hopefully :) I've never actually had a red planaria in all my time in, and aiptasia have never been an issue for me. If I get a couple, easy enough to deal with for the benefit of real rock.

You're quite right. The downsides to live rock are quite easily managed (naturally). I had all manner of pests but all handled with the right fish to help combat. Plus I really like my blue clove polyps :-)

[christyf5]

So, new month, but not posting a pic. Looks just like last month but without fish.

Started VSV dosing last weekend, overall impressed. However, while the NO3 was cut in half, PO4 went up. Skimmer took out tons of gunk, especially compared to what it did WITH fish. This last week gave twice as much skimmate.

This tells me the following.. excess bacteria were created via dosing. They used half the nitrate available, and a corresponding amount if PO4. Not sure what the ratio is, but P should have dropped over the week. It went up 20%.

So it appears that the rock is leaching faster than dosing can remove it. Not surprising.
I'm ordering a couple boxes of real rock and will rebuild once I get it and cure it. Maybe I can finally get some growth out of the corals.

It'll be fun! (riiight)

While its nice to sit back and watch/enjoy the fruits of your labors, we both know this hobby can get kind of boring if theres nothing to tinker with once in awhile. Ok ok, you've had it a bit rough this last go but you know what I mean :wink:

[Aquattro]

I'm sure I can find fun things to tinker with other than the current issues :)

[Aquattro]

Quick update progress. Carbon dosing is dropping NO3, but not PO4. Using fozdown is helping bring it down, but not a long term solution. Bit the bullet and ordered a couple boxes of Fiji rock, should be here end of the week.
Got my Ca reactor online finally, so no more messing with levels once I get it tweaked to a light load.
On the fish front, I'm going to try and trap the leopard wrasse and leave tank fishless. Not sure how that affects carbon dosing.
Damn, how do we tag someone here lol Denny, any advice on carbon dosing with adding all new rock and no fish?
Assume start from scratch?
Anyway, stay tuned for a new look and some SPS growth, I hope!

[reefwars]

What are you using as a carbon source and how much are you dosing Currently?

If you want to play it safe You can start from scratch if you like or cut your dose in half and check the numbers after a week of rock being in ,your no3 numbers will give you an idea if you need to raise or lower the dosage , the small amount of load the fish provide can be replicated using foods or supplements such as amino acids if need be.

Worse case scenario you'll end up with a bacterial bloom if you dose too much and with no fish shouldn't be any harm with o2 levels , after the bloom simply cut your dose back.

If it were me I would continue on with your carbn dosing as your doing and once you hit zero for nitrates cut your dose back to find your maintenance dose With no fish , when fish get added start to rise again slowly week by week then cut down again to find the maintenance dose again with fish.

Keep an eye out for a whitish film on the glass as a hint if it's getting used to far;)

[Aquattro]

What are you using as a carbon source and how much are you dosing Currently?


Currently at 1.8ml VSV mixture. Should hit peak soon, NO3 is almost nil, then cut back to maintenance.

[Aquattro]

Well, my new rock showed up today, and mostly disappointed. I have 2 full boxes of baseball sized rocks. I think there are 3 rocks between the boxes that I can use :(
All very nice rock if I had a 20g tank, but I can't build any kind of structure with it. I'm calling it rubble. Anyone thinking of getting fresh rock, don't order Walt Smith Premium, unless you need a box of baseballs. Very unhappy right now and not sure where to go from here.

[FishyFishy!]

Well, my new rock showed up today, and mostly disappointed. I have 2 full boxes of baseball sized rocks. I think there are 3 rocks between the boxes that I can use :(
All very nice rock if I had a 20g tank, but I can't build any kind of structure with it. I'm calling it rubble. Anyone thinking of getting fresh rock, don't order Walt Smith Premium, unless you need a box of baseballs. Very unhappy right now and not sure where to go from here.

Just your luck with this build eh? Sorry to hear that. Keep your head up.

[Aquattro]

Just your luck with this build eh? Sorry to hear that. Keep your head up.

Ya, exactly my thoughts. Not a good year for me. Now I'm out many hundreds of dollars and stuck with a bunch of rock I can't use.

[Rice Reef]

Well, my new rock showed up today, and mostly disappointed. I have 2 full boxes of baseball sized rocks. I think there are 3 rocks between the boxes that I can use :(
All very nice rock if I had a 20g tank, but I can't build any kind of structure with it. I'm calling it rubble. Anyone thinking of getting fresh rock, don't order Walt Smith Premium, unless you need a box of baseballs. Very unhappy right now and not sure where to go from here.

What? Sorry to hear that.... I would they send you a full box of rubbles?

[Aquattro]

What? Sorry to hear that.... I would they send you a full box of rubbles?

No idea. It's ridiculous. Probably 30 rocks in a 50lb box. Should have been 7 or 8, specifically asked and was told yes, I'd get large pieces. To fully cover how I'm feeling right now, I'd have to go disable the language filters!

[reefwars]

No idea. It's ridiculous. Probably 30 rocks in a 50lb box. Should have been 7 or 8, specifically asked and was told yes, I'd get large pieces. To fully cover how I'm feeling right now, I'd have to go disable the language filters!

I've seen that rock and I thought same thing no shapes to it was really purple but all are round

[Aquattro]

I've seen that rock and I thought same thing no shapes to it was really purple but all are round

I can't say this is all round, some nice shapes, but mostly 2lb or less in size. Perfect for smaller tanks I guess, but useless for me. Now I'm stuck with almost 90 pounds that I can't use.

[kien]

Wow.. I can almost feel your frustration from here. I would be PO'ed too! This hobby is hard and expensive enough as it is.. but when they send you a box that's hundreds of dollars worth of lemons.. well, #$# ^$%#$ @#*& #@$%?!@# $ !

[mrhasan]

I don't know whether it will be of any help at this point but trying eco reef rock (the guy is from halifax) might be worth a shot. You will be directly dealing with the guy who will be sending you the rocks so you can specifically ask for proper pieces. Those are man made ocean cured rocks and I started with them. Half the rock in my tank is from there.

[Aquattro]

Wow.. I can almost feel your frustration from here. I would be PO'ed too! This hobby is hard and expensive enough as it is.. but when they send you a box that's hundreds of dollars worth of lemons.. well, #$# ^$%#$ @#*& #@$%?!@# $ !

Ya, pretty much.

[Aquattro]

I don't know whether it will be of any help at this point but trying eco reef rock (the guy is from halifax) might be worth a shot. You will be directly dealing with the guy who will be sending you the rocks so you can specifically ask for proper pieces. Those are man made ocean cured rocks and I started with them. Half the rock in my tank is from there.

No, I don't want any dry/eco/dead rock. Just live.

[mrhasan]

No, I don't want any dry/eco/dead rock. Just live.

Technically its live since those are ocean cured for a long time. I didn't face any problem of typical dry rocks. My tank didn't even go through the initial cycle. And he ships like live rock.

[Aquattro]

Technically its live since those are ocean cured for a long time. I didn't face any problem of typical dry rocks. My tank didn't even go through the initial cycle. And he ships like live rock.

Ya, just not what I'm looking for.

[Myka]

Where did you get the rock from? What are they willing to do to make it right?

[Aquattro]

Where did you get the rock from? What are they willing to do to make it right?

I have to pursue that before I publicly get into it. The rock came through my LFS via one of our sponsors.

[StirCrazy]

I have to pursue that .

I would get pursuing. to bad mine isn't ready I could have taken a few lbs off you

[Aquattro]

I would get pursuing. to bad mine isn't ready I could have taken a few lbs off you

Currently discussing with Walt Smith, who is suggesting he sent no such order. So this appears to be re-boxed LA rock. Or rather, rubble.

[daplatapus]

:( that sucks dude. I'd have taken some off ya too, but I'm months away from firing mine up as well.

[Aquattro]

:( that sucks dude. I'd have taken some off ya too, but I'm months away from firing mine up as well.

It's nice enough rock and all, if I decide to down grade to a biocube 14, but nothing usable in my tank.

At this point, I'm not sure there's ever been an unhappier customer in the history of customers!
I had my LFS guy call and specifically and repeatedly get assurances this exactly would not happen, and that I would get 6-7 large pieces in each of 2 boxes. I asked to have a couple of plate pieces added, and instead I got a third 40# box of flat pieces. I mean, WTF?? I ordered 100, not 140. And I can't use 120 of it. So now I'm on the hook for 3 boxes, shipping and stuck with a tank of curing rock that will end up over my back fence.

[don.ald]

Currently discussing with Walt Smith, who is suggesting he sent no such order. So this appears to be re-boxed LA rock. Or rather, rubble.

What is LA rock?

[Aquattro]

What is LA rock?

Probably Walt Smith rock that is shipped to LA, then stored and reshipped as ordered. As I said earlier, nice enough rock, and what I would expect from WS, but just way too small for my design plans.

[Scythanith]

My 3 boxes of WS Fiji Ultra were money! I asked for one show piece and the rest moderate to large sized. I got what I asked for. It seemed like the boxes hadn't been tampered with too much but how do I know, tape is tape lol! That's sucks that your rock was cherry picked through if that was the case. I'd definitely ask whomever you bought it through to make it right. They made profit off it, lots or little that's not your concern. They should make it right.

[Aquattro]

So I spoke to the supplier and saw the order placed to Walt Smith, and the error is on the Fiji side. As expected from this vendor, he's jumping at fixing this and I hope to minimize delays and losses in this transaction.

So yes, it is WS rock, as it appeared to be (nice quality) but WS must have had new staff packing with the thought that more rocks was better rocks :)

[Coralgurl]

Sounds like they are going to fix this for you, that's great news. How long do you think it'll be held up at this point??

[Aquattro]

Next shipment is Dec 7, so a 2 week delay in my schedule, which is a bit a juggling act as my LFS is closing down and I need to get all my fish out of there and into the tank I'll also have to cure the rock in. But I can manage that..


The vendor in question is TimT of Seacare, and Tim responded within 2 minutes of me emailing. Together with Tim, Walt, Deb Smith and Cam the livestock manager at WS, we're working through how to manage the mistake (on the Fiji side).
so far the response has been fantastic, exactly what we've come to rely on from Tim. I should mention this was brokered via my LFS, so for Tim to get directly involved is just an extra perk.

Thanks Tim!

[Madreefer]

I haven't been on the site in a while. Just went thru your thread. Man that sucks and i hope things turn around for you. Good luck

[Aquattro]

I haven't been on the site in a while. Just went thru your thread. Man that sucks and i hope things turn around for you. Good luck

Thanks Bill. Really, can't get much worse. Well, I suppose it could, but let's hope not! I'm aiming for TOTM for 2017ish, so I need to pull this all together soon!

[StirCrazy]

Currently discussing with Walt Smith, who is suggesting he sent no such order. So this appears to be re-boxed LA rock. Or rather, rubble.

Hmm, so if he didn't send such order and you ordered from him, is he going to make it good? or is there a middle man that maybe screwed you over?

Steve

[Aquattro]

Hmm, so if he didn't send such order and you ordered from him, is he going to make it good? or is there a middle man that maybe screwed you over?

Steve

No, after clearing some details, Walt has agreed that they made a mistake and are making it good. Tim ordered the rock on my behalf and specifically asked for what I wanted, as seen on a copy of the order. Probably just a bad day at the packing station. Still a bit of a mess to deal with, but hopefully I'll get out of it without too much pain.

[Myka]

I have to pursue that before I publicly get into it. The rock came through my LFS via one of our sponsors.

Currently discussing with Walt Smith, who is suggesting he sent no such order. So this appears to be re-boxed LA rock. Or rather, rubble.

Ugh, you have ALL the bad luck! Don't bother with lotto tickets - you won't win anyway! ;) In all seriousness, I think Walt Smith will be good to deal with over this matter.

[Aquattro]

Ugh, you have ALL the bad luck! Don't bother with lotto tickets - you won't win anyway! ;) In all seriousness, I think Walt Smith will be good to deal with over this matter.

Yes, the lottery thing isn't working out well either.

Walt has been great, and is sending replacement rock to Van. I have to cover it to the Island, but not a big deal.
Since I have rock here already, I can't really send it back to Fiji, so selling that, and everyone involved is eating a bit of cost, probably me included. Perhaps not, if I can work out one more good deal with someone starting a large tank that needs some seed rock. We'll see..
It's not a perfect solution, but reasonable, given the circumstances.

[Myka]

^ Yeah, it's tough to replace rock. It's not like you can just send it back. I hope it doesn't end up costing you more than you planned on spending - that's the main point.

[hillegom]

Brad, do you need someone to pick up the rock and put it on the bus?
Or whatever transportation?

[Aquattro]

^ Yeah, it's tough to replace rock. It's not like you can just send it back. I hope it doesn't end up costing you more than you planned on spending - that's the main point.

Well, I hope to be able to sell it all, and the difference in cost and my sale price is being absorbed by Tim. Which is great, as it's not really his fault in any way. I have almost half lined up, and I should be able to get the rest gone. Costing me more salt to cure it, as I have to do two batches now, but that's not too terrible. Overall, I think I should come out ok, and as long as I get the rock I'm after, I'll have gotten over it in a few months :)

[Aquattro]

Brad, do you need someone to pick up the rock and put it on the bus?
Or whatever transportation?

Thanks, but no. It will arrive at the airport and get transferred to Harbour Air to fly right into town here.

[TimT]

Yes, the lottery thing isn't working out well either.

Now I know why this happened... it's the never win a lottery effect that I am plagued with too. ;)

[Aquattro]

Now I know why this happened... it's the never win a lottery effect that I am plagued with too. ;)

Tim, I like to believe it's a "yet" issue. Maybe this week :)

[Proteus]

Kudos to Tim for rectifying this. Gotta love vendors that care.. Good luck brad

[Aquattro]

Kudos to Tim for rectifying this. Gotta love vendors that care..

Agreed. Tim submitted the order as specified, so no fault of his. I dealt with my LFS for this, so for him to involve himself directly goes way above and beyond his scope of responsibility.
Walt Smith and team have been equally supportive, and overall, things should work out well, all things considered.

[Myka]

Yes, the lottery thing isn't working out well either.

I won $20 last week. Oh yeah...well on my way to the 649 cloud. ;)

[Aquattro]

Ok, after way more time and money than I had planned, here is what the new revision of the tank looks like. Needs some tidying up, some frags not mounted yet. I have less real estate than I thought I would, and as a result, I have about 25 pieces that need to go to new homes today. Hate when that happens :)

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd101/reef_raf/FTS_NewCoral_zps698eedf8.jpg

[H2o2]

I am coming to the shipyard at the beginning of January and I can always help re home

[Aquattro]

I am coming to the shipyard at the beginning of January and I can always help re home

lol, thanks, but I've found homes already. No shortage of people for free frags locally :)

[Proteus]

Love the aqua scape brad. Looks steller.. Are you fish less still

[Aquattro]

Ya, fish are all living in my kitchen in a 90g QT. I'm popular at home right now :)

[Aquattro]

Well, mostly. I have a secretive wrasse in there still, couldn't catch him, even with the rock gone. I'll try to trap him.

[Reef Pilot]

Coming along nicely... I like your "shelves". Going to be another beaut as it fills in.

[Doug]

Wholley molley, lots of frags.

[Dez]

Can't wait to see the FTS even in a year. It will grow in nice!

[Aquattro]

Can't wait to see the FTS even in a year. It will grow in nice!

I can't wait either. Sitting here waiting, looks like it might take a while :)

Some minor house keeping needed, but cleared out frags this morning, a few pieces to mount, and then water, watch it grow!

[Aquattro]

End of year/beginning of year pic with a camera :)

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd101/reef_raf/DEC29_2014FTS_zpscbee096c.jpg

Overall, happy with the layout. I attempted to use some fijicrete in it's assembly, but it doesn't work under water very well, in as much as you can't knead it under water. In the end, this is about 85lb of fiji rock. A couple spare chunks in the sump I couldn't sell.

Still have 4 frags to mount, not sure where that won't impede growth of the other pieces. I've left a lot of room around most frags to allow for maturity.

Dealing with a fish dilemma; still a wrasse and jawfish in the "fallow" tank, but seemingly unaffected by whatever got me last month. Do I drain and catch or slowly add new fish? I have QT set up if I needed to remove and treat in an emergency, so leaning towards the latter option of adding fish.

A WP40 died during cleaning, replaced that with a RW15. Had to turn it down a bit -lol Still working on flow to not clear my sand bad along the front, might need bigger gravel.

I'm hoping the fiasco of 2014 is behind me know, with 2015 being uneventful and full of growth and color.

[reefwars]

End of year/beginning of year pic with a camera :)

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd101/reef_raf/DEC29_2014FTS_zpscbee096c.jpg

Overall, happy with the layout. I attempted to use some fijicrete in it's assembly, but it doesn't work under water very well, in as much as you can't knead it under water. In the end, this is about 85lb of fiji rock. A couple spare chunks in the sump I couldn't sell.

Still have 4 frags to mount, not sure where that won't impede growth of the other pieces. I've left a lot of room around most frags to allow for maturity.

Dealing with a fish dilemma; still a wrasse and jawfish in the "fallow" tank, but seemingly unaffected by whatever got me last month. Do I drain and catch or slowly add new fish? I have QT set up if I needed to remove and treat in an emergency, so leaning towards the latter option of adding fish.

A WP40 died during cleaning, replaced that with a RW15. Had to turn it down a bit -lol Still working on flow to not clear my sand bad along the front, might need bigger gravel.

I'm hoping the fiasco of 2014 is behind me know, with 2015 being uneventful and full of growth and color.

happy new years brad , i know things will be better in 2015....the rest is in the past:)


looks good man :)

[Aquattro]

Thanks :)

[Bblinks]

Good luck Brad! I am sure the tank and its inhabitants will experience great growth in 2015! All the best to you and your family in 2015!

[Aquattro]

To you and yours as well Rich!

[gregzz4]

I'd drain and catch. Continue running the tank fallow while everybody is in your QT
You know you want to do it, and I know you won't regret it

Happy New Year and best growth wishes

[gregzz4]

That Walt Smith rock you bought ...
Is it their man-made stuff, or Fiji Premium - the real thing ?

[Aquattro]

Fiji premium. And Fiji plate.

[Nasoblond]

Your new layout looks awesome...when your corals really get growing the look will be very cool with the different layers......cheers and happy new year!!

[kien]

I didn't know you were into clams. That's quite a collection ! I suppose it helps not having those giant angels ? :-)

[Aquattro]

I didn't know you were into clams. That's quite a collection ! I suppose it helps not having those giant angels ? :-)

2 clams were just having a sleep over, they're now gone to their new home. I do have 3 myself though, and a large Angel. And a small Angel. And a Moorish Idol.
I may have clams for sale soon lol

[Coralgurl]

That rock was worth the hassle, the tank looks amazing!!! Hope your fish are in their homes soon!

[Aquattro]

That rock was worth the hassle, the tank looks amazing!!! Hope your fish are in their homes soon!

Thanks. I'm thinking of starting the fish addition this weekend. I'll start with the clowns for a week and if they're ok, slowly add the others.

[christyf5]

Thanks. I'm thinking of starting the fish addition this weekend. I'll start with the clowns for a week and if they're ok, slowly add the others.

LOL, always with the clowns :razz:

[Aquattro]

LOL, always with the clowns :razz:

Easiest to remove if needed :)

[Doug]

Looking pretty good Brad. Good luck with the fishies.

[Aquattro]

Thinking of moving the MI into the display today, I have lots of little macro algae growing on the rock and I bet he'd feast for the whole day on it!

[Reef Pilot]

Will he eat mushrooms?...:mrgreen:

[Aquattro]

Will he eat mushrooms?...:mrgreen:

No, I added some shrooms and zoas to his QT tank, he didn't touch them

[Proteus]

Looks great brad.. I skimmed back a little but I assume nutrients are taken care of since added proper rock?

[Aquattro]

Too early to tell, I think. I tested NO3, and that's 0ppm, will check PO4 today. Rock is still very new and probably could have cured for another week or so. I had a good day to do the move with my daughter away, so jumped in early. Although, no issues, some slime on the glass, but not much more than normal.

Lots of macro algae on the rock, so that will take up some nutrients making testing a bit flawed. I'll do a good water change on Monday and would expect PO4 to be below 0.04ppm at that point. Feeding the tank rather heavy, considering I have a single one inch wrasse in there (and a jawfish that won't eat).

[Aquattro]

Alrighty, added the pair of clowns and MI to the display. Let's see what kind of damage they can do!! :)

[WarDog]

Question: what's an MI?

[MitchM]

Moorish Idol

[WarDog]

Moorish Idol

Yeah, maybe I should have pondered that a bit longer! Thanks.

[Aquattro]

MI

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd101/reef_raf/Mooridol_zps6951c704.jpg

[WarDog]

MI

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd101/reef_raf/Mooridol_zps6951c704.jpg

"She's a beaut Clark!"

[Aquattro]

Who's Clark? :)

[WarDog]

Still waiting to see a picture of your canopy Brad... and maybe your high-tech sump as well! :lol:

[Aquattro]

Mounting system for canopy

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd101/reef_raf/light_zps78de5d8c.jpg

super complex sump :)

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd101/reef_raf/sump_zpsd822dd5f.jpg

[lastlight]

Wow that fish is a real looker. New layout looks boss too. I wish I had the kind of real estate you do! Sps aren't dying anymore which has me questioning all the big bulky rock overhangs I have. Yours is nice and open I like it.

[jorjef]

Who's Clark? :)




http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/jorjef/imagejpg1_zps64747c2c.jpg

[Aquattro]

Ah! A TV thing..:)

[Ram3500]

Mounting system for canopy

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd101/reef_raf/light_zps78de5d8c.jpg

super complex sump :)

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd101/reef_raf/sump_zpsd822dd5f.jpg

I had a leak in my sump just befor I went away for a long weekend this past spring. I had to pull the whole thing apart quick I used a rubber made tote for a temp sump. I used it for four months best sump I ever had. It served it purpose water went it water went out. Problem solved ! Kiss and less things will fail on you .

[Aquattro]

Kiss and less things will fail on you .

Pretty much my approach to the whole hobby :)

[kien]

I used to kiss my tank all the time but then got tired of having to clean the smudges.

[Aquattro]

I assume nutrients are taken care of since added proper rock?

Tested tonight, NO3 @ 0ppm, PO4 @ 0.05ppm

Not bad for first couple weeks.

[Proteus]

Yep those results would put a smile on my face

[Aquattro]

It's been a while since an update, January was a bad month, essentially had to abandon my tank for a few weeks. Lost a few fish, grew some great hair algae and cyano, overall, not a fun thing to come home to. anyway, cleaned it up, got most things mounted and hoping it's a smoother ride into summer.

Here's the latest FTS

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd101/reef_raf/FTS_Feb2015_zps62ad055c.jpg

[lastlight]

looks great and your colour is still there too. do you have your $623 CDN Efflo anymore?

[Aquattro]

Ya, still have a piece of efflo, but it's just a regular blue/purple/green one

[WarDog]

Ooooohhhhhhh.. .a picture! Looks good Brad, things are starting to fill in!

I see you still have sand?

[Aquattro]

I see you still have sand?

Ya. Think I need a goby maybe??

[kien]

Wait a minute, hold the phone!! You say that you cleared up your algae and cyano issues, yet I still see A SAND BED!! I call shenanigans !!

[Aquattro]

Wait a minute, hold the phone!! You say that you cleared up your algae and cyano issues, yet I still see A SAND BED!! I call shenanigans !!

I added a dolphin, it's all good.

I actually did nothing but turned up flow, and did a 50% water change for the algae issue. Cyano got hit with chemiclean.

[kien]

I added a dolphin, it's all good.

speaking of dolphins, I'm going to Cabo in a few weeks. You going to be there? Aren't you there like every few weeks ?

[Aquattro]

speaking of dolphins, I'm going to Cabo in a few weeks. You going to be there? Aren't you there like every few weeks ?

Supposed to be there March 3rd, but Elise can't travel now. We had to defer trip to end of September.

[Samw]

Wait a minute, hold the phone!! You say that you cleared up your algae and cyano issues, yet I still see A SAND BED!! I call shenanigans !!

But isn't that why there was algae and cyano in the first place? :lol: Cleaning doesn't fix the root cause. Ok, I'm just kidding.

[Aquattro]

How did my thread fall to page two?? Sheesh, gotta keep up on this. All going well (lies) and getting bored (riiight).

So, day off, wife is doing 16hr shift, got a 5yo helper, figure I'll play with the tank.
List for the day

Change out bulbs to brand new brighter bulbs.
50% water change
Clean skimmer
Add 15# of new sand
Attempt #7 of removing dead fish
Add new carbon
Add some fozdown
Add some expired zeo potions

What could possibly go wrong here?? lol

ETA: Gotta get a refill on CO2.

[Aquattro]

New week, will post a pic today when lights come on. Tested water today, all good.

Alk - 10.5 dKh
Ca - 410ppm
NO3 - < 1.0ppm
PO4 - 0.43ppm

Alright, PO4 maybe not so good, but the result of 3 dead anthias that couldn't get removed. 50% water change today should help that.

[reefwars]

Glad things are on the mend buddy , now how about those pics :)

[Aquattro]

Glad things are on the mend buddy , now how about those pics :)

In an hour, time change and all that :)

[reefwars]

Yeah I just got out of bed so I'm hoping to use this as an excuse but I haven't done the math yet lol still per coffee

[reefwars]

You running any po4 remover now? Or still carbon dosing?

[Aquattro]

You running any po4 remover now? Or still carbon dosing?

I've got fozdown, which I hadn't needed pre-anthias, but I'll start it up again to get the numbers down.

[Aquattro]

Oh, while you're here, what's your thoughts on the required ratio of N:P for carbon dosing? I think that with my limited NO3, it's not going to do what it's meant to all that well

[reefwars]

Oh, while you're here, what's your thoughts on the required ratio of N:P for carbon dosing? I think that with my limited NO3, it's not going to do what it's meant to all that well

If you Push the carbon dosing there may come a time where it will be a limiting factor , this usually only plays a role for peoplle trying to get to zeros for both nitorgen and phosphourous and started quite high , the numbers dont ratio well for a person who has high numbers of each , often no3 is zero befor po4. there doesn't need to be a constant supply of nitrogen and bacteria will use nitrogen when it's available be it always available or as it becomes available and they will even store it for later use , hence the reason we carbon dose even after getting zeros so bacteria never stop doing their jobs they just may stop doing it as fast on paper as we would like.

If you feel though like your at a stall then adding a bigger nitrogen source will get you over that hurdle , so be it adding fish , over feeding or adding nitrates directly (potassium nitrate) to name a few . the same can be said for phosphates both of these can be manipulated by you to act in your favor.

So if no3 is nil , then you have to ask your self do you want to go the slow route for bacteria to consume in ratio c : n : p or if you want to step in and do two things one is add a larger nitrogen source and the other is to lower the po4 for quicker end result (zeros)

Fwiw you may always have to run po4 removers from time to time , most do as we all overstock , change our imports and exports , get lazy etc. and po4 is in everything organic we add :)

[reefwars]

So yes once you hit zero you should continue on dosing as the bacteria use the nitrogen when and as it's available , if your still trying to lower numbers than you may have to change the ratio of what's available to suit your needs or give it some help chemically :)

[Aquattro]

I'm used to the 180, I used nothing ever for PO4 and always read 0ppm. I haven't been dosing, but may start again once get the big ass water change done, I want to dilute the PO4 in half anyway. I feed too much already, but probably need more fish :)

[reefwars]

I'm used to the 180, I used nothing ever for PO4 and always read 0ppm. I haven't been dosing, but may start again once get the big ass water change done, I want to dilute the PO4 in half anyway. I feed too much already, but probably need more fish :)

It's a funny how it works sometimes but I think your tank will get there you just have to find the right combination of tools and numbers to work with , if nitrates are nil and phosphates are high you have an idea of where to start you just need to find out what will work best long term. If the systems animals are healthy and the system is healthy then you have time to slowly resolve it :)

[Aquattro]

My PO4 was 0.04ppm before the 3 anthias died in the rocks, so I feel a couple 50% water changes will bring them back to where I can better manage them. Everything is fine in the tank, so no rush.

[reefwars]

Anthias is something I've had the worst of luck with , between jumping and dropping dead overnight I just gave up , even the dispars I don't have much luck with. Love the colors and how they swim around but yeah no go :(

[Aquattro]

Ya, no more for me either.

[WarDog]

Ya, no more for me either.

Those were going to be the next additions to my tank. Can you recommend something instead?

[Aquattro]

Those were going to be the next additions to my tank. Can you recommend something instead?

Lots of people have luck with them, so don't just give up because i don't :) For, I'm getting a school of Vanderbilt Chromis, hopefully easier to keep.
However, Anthias do like room, and keeping more than one might end up with one anyway in a tank your size.

[Aquattro]

Also, my bad luck is with Lyretails, maybe because they're easy? I had a school of Bartletts that did quite well for a year before I killed them.

[Tn23]

Also, my bad luck is with Lyretails, maybe because they're easy? I had a school of Bartletts that did quite well for a year before I killed them.

Brad I've also had horrible experiences with Anthias as well, The only Anthias I can keep alive is the Sunburst. Others just seem to slowly disappear, perhaps I am not feeding enough.....

Quick question, how much pozdown are you dosing and how are you dosing it? (ie, ato?) Thanks!

[Aquattro]

Quick question, how much pozdown are you dosing and how are you dosing it? (ie, ato?) Thanks!

when I need it, I just add 1 drop per 10g into the overflow. Works well. If you were going to use it full time, Tim suggests adding to your top off water. I can't do that since my top off is directly plumbed into the house.

[Tn23]

when I need it, I just add 1 drop per 10g into the overflow. Works well. If you were going to use it full time, Tim suggests adding to your top off water. I can't do that since my top off is directly plumbed into the house.

Gotcha, Thanks!
I'm currently sitting at around 0.03 po4 as well like you, just wanted to play with ULNS and see if some pieces would change. Tim gets amazing colors, however he is under halides so that's not fair :razz:

[Aquattro]

Gotcha, Thanks!
I'm currently sitting at around 0.03 po4 as well like you, just wanted to play with ULNS and see if some pieces would change. Tim gets amazing colors, however he is under halides so that's not fair :razz:

I might have a spare 400w setup here :)

[Aquattro]

Ok, here's the pic as promised. surprisingly, I actually have a good camera. Just can't work it - lol

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd101/reef_raf/FTSMAR8_1_zps6swyuxc8.jpg

[WarDog]

Holy crap... a picture! I'd better look outside and see if pigs are flying too!

Seriously though, looks good!

[Aquattro]

Holy crap... a picture! I'd better look outside and see if pigs are flying too!

Seriously though, looks good!

Thanks.
I actually get anxious when it's time to take pics, they never come out the way I like or really show the tank as it is. But, it's required to track progress, so I take a couple here and there.
Maybe I'll bribe Wayne into getting some macro shots one day. :)

[Doug]

Looks good Brad.

[lockrookie]

Someday I will have such a colourful tank again

Looks awesome I truly have tank envy

[hillegom]

excellent tank and picture skills

[Aquattro]

Thanks guys. But the pic could be so much better, I'll keep working in it :)

[gregzz4]

Pic is def enough dude !

Growth is coming along very nicely and color is good enough to see on my end, even with my aging eyes

Keep up with whatever you're doing and you're on your way to a TOTM :lol:

Maybe it's all the fodder/death feeding the corals :razz:

I'm gonna chalk up your success to MHs, and a lack of number-chasing

[Aquattro]

Pic is def enough dude !

Growth is coming along very nicely and color is good enough to see on my end, even with my aging eyes

Keep up with whatever you're doing and you're on your way to a TOTM :lol:

Maybe it's all the fodder/death feeding the corals :razz:

I'm gonna chalk up your success to MHs, and a lack of number-chasing

lol :) I think much of my troubles with this tank was listening to popular practices and thinking maybe I was just too stuck in my ways. I tried the dry rock thing, and the QT thing, and nothing worked out well.
I've reverted back to my reckless ways and so far, things are turning around. Just did a water change and hung out looking down on the corals, and was really happy with the color, PE and growth.
I need to get PO4 back in line, but once there, hopefully everything sprouts up!

[Aquattro]

Ok, right, I have a tank journal. Hmm, updates.

As most know, currently wrestling with a pair of Moorish Idols. Added a baby Majestic to QT, wouldn't eat and lost it. I've also added 5 Talbot's Damsels, really neat little fish with lots of color. I'll try to kill them one day, but not today.
Added a UV unit today, was given it and figured why not. Playing with the Tunze scraper magnet thingy lots lately, cool little toy.
Things are growing, nutrients are dropping, tank life returning to what it once was. Overall pretty happy.
I can't get Kien to come to my house for pics, so no fancy macros, just the same old FTS, a little older.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd101/reef_raf/FTSApril15_zps1qx5reok.jpg

[gregzz4]

Colors are looking awesome, and I see the cleaner pair are still around :wink:

[Aquattro]

Colors are looking awesome, and I see the cleaner pair are still around :wink:

Ya, really happy with the color, very vibrant and solid, just the way they used to be :)
The cleaners have been a pair for about 2 years, and so far haven't attempted jumping, so I expect them to be around a while. Now that I just typed that, going to go check the floor. BRB

[Wretch]

Ya, really happy with the color, very vibrant and solid, just the way they used to be :)
The cleaners have been a pair for about 2 years, and so far haven't attempted jumping, so I expect them to be around a while. Now that I just typed that, going to go check the floor. BRB

Looking very nice. What is the pink/red coral 2/3s up on the left hand side?

[Aquattro]

Looking very nice. What is the pink/red coral 2/3s up on the left hand side?

There's 3 pinks in a row there, but you probably mean the largest at the top? That's a red planet "frag"

[Aquattro]

Oh, and I found a cool little mantis lurking around, maroon with white dots. Cute little guy :)

[kien]

I like those damsels and those Idols look wicked in there. I'm looking forward to your "How do I get my Moorish Idols to stop eating all my corals" thread. :lol:

[daplatapus]

At least they'll be eating, lol :D

[Aquattro]

I like those damsels and those Idols look wicked in there. I'm looking forward to your "How do I get my Moorish Idols to stop eating all my corals" thread. :lol:

Ya, thanks for that :) So far there's no interest in corals or clams, and the original one I had was in a SPS tank for over a year and "hardly" nipped at all. Not enough to do any damage anyways. They have a reasonable track record for reefs, so pretty safe gamble.

[Aquattro]

At least they'll be eating, lol :D

At this point, I'm ok with that :) They're actually grazing continually, so not really too worried immediately with their refusal to eat offered foods. I have enough algae and tidbits in there to keep them going for a little while.

[daplatapus]

Oh, and FYI, I waved as I drove by your house this aft.

[Bblinks]

At this point, I'm ok with that :) They're actually grazing continually, so not really too worried immediately with their refusal to eat offered foods. I have enough algae and tidbits in there to keep them going for a little while.

Cracking out for some pictures Brad!!! Let's see em.

[Aquattro]

Oh, and FYI, I waved as I drove by your house this aft.

Sorry, wasn't home. Stuck at the hospital again. sigh.

[Aquattro]

Cracking out for some pictures Brad!!! Let's see em.

I'll try tomorrow, night lights on now.

[daplatapus]

Sorry, wasn't home. Stuck at the hospital again. sigh.

:( sorry to hear. We were there too (at the Royal Jubilee)

[Aquattro]

:( sorry to hear. We were there too (at the Royal Jubilee)

We're just up the road, hopefully just regular sick this time.

[Aquattro]

Ok, what's new. Added an Emperor, doing well. He likes clams. Clams now in a box, pending a decision on my part. Not sure what to do about it, sell fish, sell clams. We'll see.
MIs both doing well, eating like pigs.

Shattered a bulb 1" off the water, guess I need to turn the flow down?? lol

Still suffering a bit of algae and elevated nutrients from my feeding spree, slowly coming under control. Someone suggested dosing H2O2, may try that with my new doser, if I figure out how to work it.

Corals growing, colors coming back after my alk spike, overall just chugging along. Pics to come when I get my camera back.

[Doug]

The emperor don't pick at your sps Brad ?

[Aquattro]

The emperor doesn't pick at your sps Brad ?

No, typically SPS are safe from angels. Not always, but most reports are good. Clams aren't faring as well.
One of the MIs likes to nip every now, no big deal though

[Aquattro]

Ok, found this thing. Wow, lazy on the updates. I know, pics. I got one, crappy phone pic, will have to do.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd101/reef_raf/166754_10153166075812007_3399745894193702560_n_zps rad4lz58.jpg

Finally liking this tank, I see new growth daily now that I've got PO4 under control.
Made some slight changes yesterday, removed bio-pellets, added zeo back on, removed filter sock. Thinking of pulling sand for a while to stabilize nutrients.
Warren thinks I'm nuts. Perhaps.

Hoping that by July, I can't see any rock. For the most part, I've neglected this tank since day one. It was obvious.
I've recently been spending more time with it, tweaking and testing, and that too is obvious.
I hope that it continues to grow, and I can spend more enjoyable time with it rather than solving issues after they happen.

[Myka]

Well it looks a heck of a lot better than it did before your journal got lost! :D

[Aquattro]

Well it looks a heck of a lot better than it did before your journal got lost! :D

Yes, and I'd say that's happened more in the last month. PO4 really shuts down growth. I have NO3 somewhere between 2 and 50, closer to 50 I'm guessing, but that doesn't seem to bother much.

[Myka]

Yes, and I'd say that's happened more in the last month. PO4 really shuts down growth. I have NO3 somewhere between 2 and 50, closer to 50 I'm guessing, but that doesn't seem to bother much.

Haha, yeah PO4 is the devil. Uhm, 50 is large. Why do you not have a more accurate reading? :lol:

[WarDog]

Why do you not have a more accurate reading? :lol:

Dipping your finger in and tasting the water isn't accurate?

[Aquattro]

Haha, yeah PO4 is the devil. Uhm, 50 is large. Why do you not have a more accurate reading? :lol:

Elos and Salifert, it's reddish color. Best I got :)

[Myka]

Elos and Salifert, it's reddish color. Best I got :)

Are you colorblind? Get wifey to read it. :p

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Looks great Brad.

[maron6977]

Ya , looks really good . I'm surprised your changing things up ! Looks like whatever your doing is work'in , why change ???

[Aquattro]

Ya , looks really good . I'm surprised your changing things up ! Looks like whatever your doing is work'in , why change ???

Fighting too hard with nitrate. I used zeo for years and liked it, so figured why not, I have the gear, so might as well use it