I'm tired of seeing "frag packs" at retailers

[paddyob]

It really sucks when you want to buy something but the retailer has made a crappy frag pack and won't sell it to you individually.

Online I saw coral packs but they DON'T sell single frags. And locally I see them too.

The nicest pieces in packs. I don't want a freaking picked by vendor frag pack. Just sell me what I want!!!!

Twice in the last month it was an issue. And is partial reason why I bought nothing. I'm not spending a $100 on corals the vendor chooses.

Sorry for the rant. But it's a crappy trend in my opinion.

[riceboy]

i agree, a better way of doing frag packs should be her are the available frags, choose one from this category, then one or 2 from this category, etc for a price of this or just do a multiple discount if you choose to by a bunch ie 5-10% off or what ever the vendors are comfortable with.

[Magickiwi]

They do the same thing in the gemstone trade. They will two a few of their best stones and bundle them together with a bunch of crappy ones. If you want the nice stones you have to pay top dollar for their crappy ones too.

I prefer buying individually myself and I can wait until I find just the piece I'm looking for.

[paddyob]

They do the same thing in the gemstone trade. They will two a few of their best stones and bundle them together with a bunch of crappy ones. If you want the nice stones you have to pay top dollar for their crappy ones too.

I prefer buying individually myself and I can wait until I find just the piece I'm looking for.


This is not gemstones. I could put five stones in my drawer and call it a day.

But I don't want to have to buy five corals when I want one or two.

Especially when they say they won't sell it to you cause there are no individual frags.

Ok. I keep money and spend it elsewhere. The competition. So does the vendor win by refusing to take a coral from his pack. Or did they just witness a customer leave with his money.

It's funny they prefer no sale over a happy customer that just walked out with a coral they desired.... And will probably return.

[paddyob]

i agree, a better way of doing frag packs should be her are the available frags, choose one from this category, then one or 2 from this category, etc for a price of this or just do a multiple discount if you choose to by a bunch ie 5-10% off or what ever the vendors are comfortable with.

Agreed. Or they could sell you the one you want and substitute an alternate into the frag pack.

It can't be good for business if I leave with nothing.

[jorjef]

I'm can hear all the retailers muttering under their breath after reading this thread. You know they are in the exact same situation, well not EXACT but when they put in order to their suppliers. sure there will be the "gotta have" few corals that they can request but then need to fill out the order with "give me two frogspawn, three torches, five brains, 10 zoa colonies etc etc. and end up with some nice ones and the sub par corals that sit in their tanks for weeks. They are really in a tough situation trying to move the ugly betty's

Riceboys idea sounds interesting.

[Reef Pilot]

Haha,... reminds me of the cable companies with their "bundles". I only ever watch about 10% of the channels I get, but have to pay through the nose for all of them.

[paddyob]

I'm can hear all the retailers muttering under their breath after reading this thread. You know they are in the exact same situation, well not EXACT but when they put in order to their suppliers. sure there will be the "gotta have" few corals that they can request but then need to fill out the order with "give me two frogspawn, three torches, five brains, 10 zoa colonies etc etc. and end up with some nice ones and the sub par corals that sit in their tanks for weeks. They are really in a tough situation trying to move the ugly betty's

Riceboys idea sounds interesting.

Sure. But that's not my problem that they bought subpar corals. That's something they need to discuss with a supplier. I should not have to buy ugly corals to pad an owners pocket and cover their stock issues (if that's truly the case).

And the frag Packs I have seen do not have poor pieces. I would have bought any one of them, if I could have. But I don't want five.


The only ones as single were a joke... And another place had "no individual".

[paddyob]

Haha,... reminds me of the cable companies with their "bundles". I only ever watch about 10% of the channels I get, but have to pay through the nose for all of them.


Yup. We just got Netflix. Barely use the cable now. Dropped all packages but the absolute basic.

That's an example of taking money elsewhere.

Good one. :razz:

[jorjef]

Sure. But that's not my problem that they bought subpar corals. That's something they need to discuss with a supplier. I should not have to buy ugly corals to pad an owners pocket and cover their stock issues (if that's truly the case).

And the frag Packs I have seen do not have poor pieces. I would have bought any one of them, if I could have. But I don't want five.


The only ones as single were a joke... And another place had "no individual".

I guess you're damned if you do or damned if you don't.

[paddyob]

I guess you're damned if you do or damned if you don't.


Nope. Just disappointed I can't just walk in and buy something anymore. If its on the shelf... It should be for sale. No questions. No gimmicks. No problems.

It costs money for a staff member to spend time with a customer, and bad business is when the customer leaves empty handed and buys from the other guys. At least it used to be bad for business.

Maybe business is too good?

[paddyob]

Maybe the retailers can chime in... The ones that remain anyhow.

maybe they can explain why it's better to lose a sale than break a package up.

[jorjef]

I think you should start up a shop and run those other non comsumer friendly S.O.B's out of business.

[paddyob]

I think you should start up a shop and run those other non comsumer friendly S.O.B's out of business.

Funny. Yea.

Thanks for your input.

It's times like this I actually miss blue world.

[jorjef]

Thanks for your input.



And I'm sure all the retailers are thanking you for yours. You know none of them will come on here and reply to this. It's not that they are hiding anything it's just a no win situation for them when customers refuse to see both sides of the story.

[paddyob]

And I'm sure all the retailers are thanking you for yours. You know none of them will come on here and reply to this. It's not that they are hiding anything it's just a no win situation for them when customers refuse to see both sides of the story.

Thanks again!

[howdy20012002]

are u talking about edmonton stores?
just curious, because I have never seen a forced "frag pack" at any store here..then again I have been to the southern stores lately

[paddyob]

are u talking about edmonton stores?
just curious, because I have never seen a forced "frag pack" at any store here..then again I have been to the southern stores lately

Online vendor. Yes. Local it was more of a grey area. I asked but it was never "offered".

I won't get more specific, as its not my goal to slander. Just frustrated.

[Seriak]

If they only have a few rare corals, they probably didn't lose any money as the pack probably sells and they make more based on selling all 5 corals then just the one to you. If they don't sell the pack and the corals starting backlogging in their inventory, they will eventually sell them as individual frags or lose money.

Personally I like packs when I am starting a new tank as I get a bunch of corals for cheap (Cheaper). I hate packs when I have most of the corals I like and just need a few last pieces that no one wants to sell individually.

[denny_C]

Maybe the retailers can chime in... The ones that remain anyhow.

maybe they can explain why it's better to lose a sale than break a package up.


ill see what i can do anyways lol


i guess for every person who doesnt buy a pak theres ten others who do , im sure if they werent selling there paks they wouldnt be doing it , i make on average 5 paks of zoas a week and i do not split them up , im sure theres an angry guss here and there who wants that one item , but theres also the sell it all at once angle which also helps bring down paks overall pricing as opposed to per polyp pricing.



for example heres one of my paks:

as a package i have it posted as $100.00

pak3: $100.00

aussie delightful paly: 6polyps
purple death palys: 2polyps + babies
red people eaters: 4 polyps
armor of god paly: 1polyp
candy apple redds - 1 polyp


as individuals i sell them as:


aussie delightful paly:6 polyps @ $20 per polyp
purple death palys: 2polyps + babies @ $15 per polyp
red people eaters: 4 polyps-@$5 per polyp
armor of god paly: 1polyp @ $15 per polyp
candy apple redds - 1 polyp@$15 per polyp

so in theory or on paper im ripping myself off as singles i could be getting $200 but as a package i offered it for a more reasonable price .

i sell each and every pak , all five, weekly so i dont see a need to break them up unless they werent selling.

i remember the large 12" combo zoa rocks years ago at lfs being 300-400 and littered with several diff types , alot of times i would get mad and say geesh i just want that one but every other week id go in and sure enough it was sold and gone;)

while im sure theres always one person who hates this , there are prob ten others for that one who do in fact like it.

to each their own i guess

its always been like that though , the nicer stuff will always be on the border line of for sale and not for sale lol its not a new thing its been like it since i started the hobby and other hobbies im in.


now with all that said , if theres a single frag that someones interested in and i have the ability to make more i usually do sell it as its important to keep people happy ;)


cheers


denny

[paddyob]

I understand Denny. But are you ok sending a customer to Wai's instead of selling something to them? I did see you would try to accommodate the sale, but this was not the case for me. Twice. At other shops of course.

Denny you straight shooter. Lol.

I know bulk sells. But I'm willing to buy at the "higher" price for one... That's good for you.

As a retailer you could easily stick something else in to replace it.



ill see what i can do anyways lol


i guess for every person who doesnt buy a pak theres ten others who do , im sure if they werent selling there paks they wouldnt be doing it , i make on average 5 paks of zoas a week and i do not split them up , im sure theres an angry guss here and there who wants that one item , but theres also the sell it all at once angle which also helps bring down paks overall pricing as opposed to per polyp pricing.



for example heres one of my paks:

as a package i have it posted as $100.00

pak3: $100.00

aussie delightful paly: 6polyps
purple death palys: 2polyps + babies
red people eaters: 4 polyps
armor of god paly: 1polyp
candy apple redds - 1 polyp


as individuals i sell them as:


aussie delightful paly:6 polyps @ $20 per polyp
purple death palys: 2polyps + babies @ $15 per polyp
red people eaters: 4 polyps-@$5 per polyp
armor of god paly: 1polyp @ $15 per polyp
candy apple redds - 1 polyp@$15 per polyp

so in theory or on paper im ripping myself off as singles i could be getting $200 but as a package i offered it for a more reasonable price .

i sell each and every pak , all five, weekly so i dont see a need to break them up unless they werent selling.

i remember the large 12" combo zoa rocks years ago at lfs being 300-400 and littered with several diff types , alot of times i would get mad and say geesh i just want that one but every other week id go in and sure enough it was sold and gone;)

while im sure theres always one person who hates this , there are prob ten others for that one who do in fact like it.

to each their own i guess

its always been like that though , the nicer stuff will always be on the border line of for sale and not for sale lol its not a new thing its been like it since i started the hobby and other hobbies im in.


now with all that said , if theres a single frag that someones interested in and i have the ability to make more i usually do sell it as its important to keep people happy ;)


cheers


denny

[Magickiwi]

If you don't like the way they are doing business then don't do business. If it impacts them they will change and then you're happy. If it doesn't then it's a reality that you'll have to accept.

Just let it go man.

[ronau]

If you don't like the way they are doing business then don't do business. If it impacts them they will change and then you're happy. If it doesn't then it's a reality that you'll have to accept.

Just let it go man.

+1

If they needed the business, they would change. They might view you (OP) now as a troublesome customer and your couple of bucks isn't worth accommodating you. Sometimes sellers are quite happy never to see particular customers again.

[denny_C]

If you don't like the way they are doing business then don't do business. If it impacts them they will change and then you're happy. If it doesn't then it's a reality that you'll have to accept.

Just let it go man.

thats actually very true ;)


the way i see it is ive been in those shoes , hell i still am all the time lol just the other day i seen a coral i wanted but i didnt need 30polyps at $40 a polyp and the seller wouldnt split them up so i simply passed on it , what bugs me is it sold that same day lol

i guess it comes down to the seller , what he or she does and then theres the buyer , not always are we going to see eye to eye but we need each other and im sure most will help or do what they can to see their customers happy.

at the end of the day not everything is readily available and the stores, collectors and wholesalers know this , we all have internet and know the market........and for the record the market isnt friendly lol the harsh reality is things often go to those who are willing to spend or buy what they need to in order to have the piece they want , it sucks ill agree but its a buyer makes the market world .

i hate the high per polyp prices , sure i sell but i also have to buy and its the same on all fronts , an easy fix is for the market to say ive had enough and prices will go down , but the market is to large and its tooth and claw for the nicest stuff and and the end the cashola runs the world:(

[monza]

What Denny said, here's to capitalism!

[monza]

and I really wanted to see my post count at 555.

[paddyob]

Maybe ill clarify something that people seem to be missing.

I never once made a bad comment about any retailer. I simply do not like a practice that's out there.

Yet I'm taking shots from some people.

Try be objective instead of attacking me.

Let me repeat myself. I have no problems with the store, the products or the people. Only. ONLY the frag pack incidents I encountered.

Not once did I argue or attack the stores doing this. Which is most. I simply have a frustration.

[Magickiwi]

Maybe ill clarify something that people seem to be missing.

I never once made a bad comment about any retailer. I simply do not like a practice that's out there.

Yet I'm taking shots from some people.

Try be objective instead of attacking me.

I haven't seen anyone taking shots at you. Just because people don't agree with you doesn't mean they are taking a shot at you.

[paddyob]

I haven't seen anyone taking shots at you. Just because people don't agree with you doesn't mean they are taking a shot at you.

It seems a few comments are made to cause a controversy. If I misunderstand being referred to as troublesome or another sarcastic comment. Sorry.

[Reefer Rob]

I kind of like the frag packs, if I'm getting it at a price where I can chuck a couple away if I don't like them.

From a the point of view of someone who sells corals from time to time it makes sense as well. I lot of times I'll advertise a coral for sale, exchange a few PMs, then a half a dozen texts only to have the guy back out or just not show up. This is my just hobby, I work full time and sometimes it feels like it's not worth the trouble for $20, so I just throw away a lot of my cuttings (don't tell my wife). Thinking about going to frag packs in the future... always open to sell singles to a guy who's easy to work with.

[Aquattro]

Thinking about going to frag packs in the future... always open to sell singles to a guy who's easy to work with.

I agree, now thinking about this myself. I sometimes need to mess around for hours, communicating, waiting,etc, to sell a $10 frag. Selling a pack would make it worth getting my arm wet :)

[jorjef]

FRAG PACKS, FRAG PACKS, FRAG PACKS... Poor Paddy is stroking out right about now... :lol:

[paddyob]

FRAG PACKS, FRAG PACKS, FRAG PACKS... Poor Paddy is stroking out right about now... :lol:

Ok.

[paddyob]

I agree, now thinking about this myself. I sometimes need to mess around for hours, communicating, waiting,etc, to sell a $10 frag. Selling a pack would make it worth getting my arm wet :)


I'm talking retail. Not reefer to reefer.

Geez. Something is really lost in translation here. :lol:

[Aquattro]

Geez. Something is really lost in translation here. :lol:

I don't think so, the topic is just evolving :) I think it applies to retail also. Much easier to bag and ship a pack than single sales. If I were a retailer, I'd likely prefer to sell packs. More profit for labour involved.

[paddyob]

I don't think so, the topic is just evolving :) I think it applies to retail also. Much easier to bag and ship a pack than single sales. If I were a retailer, I'd likely prefer to sell packs. More profit for labour involved.

Fair enough.

I don't mind buying several off a reefer as prices are better than retail and buying five frags is usually a deal.

But generally it's also what I want and not just a bunch packed up.

[kien]

I LOVE frag packs !

If there's something in the pack I don't want I'll just sell it to someone who does want it. #ProTip

[Aquattro]

Fair enough.

I don't mind buying several off a reefer as prices are better than retail and buying five frags is usually a deal.

But generally it's also what I want and not just a bunch packed up.

Agreed. I see packs for sale online and I own 4 of them already, I'm not paying for 5 to get 1. But many do. I'm just not that cutting edge on my "collect coral names" game :) So I just don't buy anything. Easy.

[paddyob]

I LOVE frag packs !

If there's something in the pack I don't want I'll just sell it to someone who does want it. #ProTip

Ok. Now this is constructive.

I might consider that in the future if I can justify at least half of what's in the pack. And if the extra is not a dud.

[Magickiwi]

I don't think so, the topic is just evolving :) I think it applies to retail also. Much easier to bag and ship a pack than single sales. If I were a retailer, I'd likely prefer to sell packs. More profit for labour involved.

Or even any profit for labor. By the time you've order, shipped, paid, displayed, advertised, maintained, and finally sold that $10 frag ends up costing the retailer $50.

[kien]

Ok. Now this is constructive.

I might consider that in the future if I can justify at least half of what's in the pack. And if the extra is not a dud.

Or before you even commit to the frag pack, rope in some friends who might also be interested and share the cost up front. :-) There's always someone looking for the black liquorice. One man's junk (no, not that junk you perverts!) is another man's treasure.

[mark]

said already but get the pack, resell the ones you don't want on kijiji and recover all your money

[denny_C]

selling in quantity def has its advantages as listed above but i can see the point of view from both sides.

[paddyob]

Or even any profit for labor. By the time you've order, shipped, paid, displayed, advertised, maintained, and finally sold that $10 frag ends up costing the retailer $50.

Agreed, however I would not order only one thing if I ordered online. But without the products being available, I order none.

Strange how that goes. Lol.

[lastlight]

Ok. Now this is constructive.

and common sense. admit it... you're just a little bit troublesome :biggrin:

[paddyob]

[QUOTE=lastlight;882961]and common sense. admit it... you're just a little bit troublesome :biggrin:[/]

Troubled maybe.

I don't think it's a common sense thing, as common sense says dont buy something you don't want. Common sense also says a fool and his money are soon parted...those two go together in this case. Ha ha.

However, it's a good loop hole. :twised:

[Kraken]

Frag packs are a good way for a vendor to perhaps sell stock that are not selling very well. If everybody only bought the expensive stuff, and nobody buys the cheap ugly stuff (not neccesarily), then the vendor is unlikely to be able to make any money. Like all livestock, when you purchase from a farm or from a distributor of corals, no one is going to sell you all of their cherry pieces. For example, if I went and purchased a box of 24 corals, there is a very high chance that 1 of them is a gem, and the other 23 is crap (not always the case but you get the gist of it). If everybody just wants that 1 gem, whats going to happen to the 23 crap corals? Unless you can sell the gem to cover for the entire box AND make a profit, then either the vendor has to sell it to a customer or its just gonna keep taking up space in their tanks and eventually gets tossed in the garbage. It really isnt easy to make money off of livestock because everybody is chasing for gems and the crap is either heavily discounted or left behind, but thats just the way it works unfortunately.

[mark]

the crap has to stop. Reefers have to stop buying it, stores should stop bringing it in, growers stop growing it

[Aquattro]

the crap has to stop. Reefers have to stop buying it, stores should stop bringing it in, growers stop growing it

Stores don't bring it in, it just gets shipped. I've been at the "store" or the ordering of corals, and been there at the receiving of corals, always two different batches :) As stated, out of a box of say 16 maricultured colonies, 3 are nice, 3 are ok, the rest are crap. Often with duplicates.

[denny_C]

Stores don't bring it in, it just gets shipped. I've been at the "store" or the ordering of corals, and been there at the receiving of corals, always two different batches :) As stated, out of a box of say 16 maricultured colonies, 3 are nice, 3 are ok, the rest are crap. Often with duplicates.

the duplicates thing can be brutal, oder 6 zoa colonies or 15 sps colonies just to have 8 of the exact same pieces lol

[Aquattro]

the duplicates thing can be brutal, oder 6 zoa colonies or 15 sps colonies just to have 8 of the exact same pieces lol

Ya, and they aren't duplicates of the gem pieces. Usually the digitata that wasn't even ordered lol

[denny_C]

Ya, and they aren't duplicates of the gem pieces. Usually the digitata that wasn't even ordered lol

or the same red cap or valida colonie over and over and over lol

better yet is when they list it as a collector name or ultra this and that and then the lemons show lol

fool me once....

[Taipan]

Duplicates are brutal....but what really hurts are the items that you DIDN'T order and are automatically substituted (of supposed 'equal' value - yeah, right). As in 99.99% of direct shipments. Transhipping aside.

I've helped several LFS select and choose items - sometimes there's a mere list to choose from. Other times - there are literally hundreds of pictures to comb through.

It's amazing how what it ordered will never match what is delivered and unboxed. Someone will invariably ask: "Why does the LFS put up with that kind of service standard?"

Answer: Canada is a relatively small market and the wholesaler will generally cater to much larger U.S. and European clients - ie.) Live Aquaria, White Corals (Germany). Wholesalers will bend over backwards for a consistent large revenue stream. Economies of scale.

Back on topic - for what it's worth....some frag pack corals (despite being puke coloured green or some other non appealing form) will colour up very nicely over time. I've found several "runts" and ugly ducklings change colour under different conditions.

[ScubaSteve]

I stand on both sides for this issue.

For more common corals that are great for filling out a new tank, frag packs are the dog's bollocks - you get an insta-reef at a low price and the seller moves a bunch of stuff quickly. I get the need to move volume fast; I'm so busy that I actually give most of my frags away for free to friends and newbies, otherwise I throw them out. I just don't have the time or space to deal with it. For a retailer, moving stock through is key and I totally get why they do it.

On the other hand, the selection of nice collector corals seems to be rather **** poor in Vancouver, so I'm already getting nailed having to bring in corals from out of province. Having the one frag I want stuck in a bundle that can't be split up ticks me off because now I have to spend more money to buy more corals that I don't even have room (or want) just to get the one - and then add the shipping back on top of that if it's not local. Ya, sure I can go and try to sell the pieces I don't want, but refer to my previous point - I'm too flippin' busy to deal with it and have no room in the tank. So, what happens is that I just pass on the packs and yet again still can't get the collector pieces I'm after. It's only happened to me a few times but each time it was for a piece I really wanted and would have paid a premium for.

So, Paddy buddy, I feel ya on this one. I too hit that point some weeks where I'm just going "Why the frig is it so damn hard just to get a nice piece of coral!", then you come so close to finding what you want and get burned by something silly like a pack... leaving me banging my head again the tank in frustration.