Need advice, not so slow leak in sump

[christyf5]

Hey guys, so I'm at a bit of a loss here. Not only do I not really know whats going on other than the fact that there is water on the floor and under one corner of the sump (continues to well up after wiping with a towel). There are no visible cracks in the tank glass nor are there any "breaks" in the silicone. Underneath the sump is dry as well. There is trim on the sump both top and bottom and I suspect that there is a slow leak where the trim is, so basically where the glass comes together. I can't even tell how bad the leak is as there is a small space between pieces of plywood on the base of where the sump sits and I suspect all the water is on the concrete under that and only starting to ooze out where I can see it now. At best I'd say theres probably only a couple gallons there.

So, I drain the sump and what, cut the silicone out for that section and redo it? Can I just goop more on? How long do I have to leave it for to cure? Do I need to rinse it afterwards or let it sit in water (guess I should do a water test or something?

Sadly the leak isn't slow enough to just collect salt and get plugged up like all the other leaks :razz:

Any and all advice welcome. I'm out of my element here and hope I'm on the right track.

[reeferfulton]

If you think you know the area .
You could maybe use some coral putty ?? Wirho7t draijing draining

Not sure if that would help temporarily or not.

[christyf5]

I just checked and the leak appears to be coming from the bottom seam. I can't get any putty onto it with the trim in place. Will have to hope for the best tonight and try draining it in the morning. Thanks, I'll have a look and perhaps I can just putty it if I can figure out whats going on. I did have a look at the silicone inside the tank, it seems to be intact so I'm not sure if the two glass panes are pulling apart at one spot or what :neutral:

[gregzz4]

Not sure I can help but can you post a clear pic of the suspected leaking area ?

[trilinearmipmap]

Suggestions:

1. Assuming you have an auto-topoff, measure the salinity decrease to calculate the volume of your leak

2. Orca underwater glue (available at J & L) is supposed to glue and seal underwater. I don't know how well it works, I keep a tube on hand

3. If it were me I would temporarily re-plumb to a rubbermaid or similar sump then take the sump out and either repair it properly or replace it

4. Not knowing the layout of your sump, you could even (temporarily) put a mini-sump inside your sump (ie. a bucket just big enough for the drain hoses to go into and to house a return pump) if you are worried about the leak worsening overnight

Best of luck

[Masonjames]

I would imagine if you try to putty it, your not gonna sleep wondering if it's holding up and any fix would be very short lived I would guess. You should be able to just cut out the inner seal and re silicone it no problem. Might as well re due the entire inner seal while your at it though. But that's assuming your sump does not hold a huge volume of water. If it's leaking through the seams the structural seam holding the tank together has been compromised and so has the structural integrity of the tank. The inner seal does nothing to hold a tank together, it's sole purpose is to protect the structural seam. So I defiantly wouldn't try to patch any leaking tank that holds any significant amount of water volume as I have stated above. But for the typical volume of water we run in our sumps, or a small tank, you should be fine re sealing it, and be able to sleep at night without a worry. But maybe check with denny and see what he recommends.

[Myka]

Christy, is there anyone in your area that builds sumps? I would suggest you get a new one made (or build yourself a new one out of a 75-gallon tank or whatever fits), then repair and sell the old one. In the meantime, your tank should be fine just running with powerheads for a few days while you wait for the new sump. In my experience, a "fix" doesn't last, and leaks require a complete re-sealing.

[Doug]

Christy, is there anyone in your area that builds sumps? I would suggest you get a new one made (or build yourself a new one out of a 75-gallon tank or whatever fits), then repair and sell the old one. In the meantime, your tank should be fine just running with powerheads for a few days while you wait for the new sump. In my experience, a "fix" doesn't last, and leaks require a complete re-sealing.

Yup. Agree with Mindy. I would not even fool around with it.

[christyf5]

Hey guys, I'm not sure whether to be ticked off or relieved or a bit embarassed. I took the sump apart this morning, even had to cut a pipe (the drain from the tank standpipe, it was problematic) to get the sump out. I pried off the trim from the area that was leaking and couldn't find a bloody thing. There was a bit of water in the tank still and nothing was coming through. I was thinking it was due to the weight of the water maybe? Then I followed the water trail....from the through hull fitting (to the return pump). Damned thing wasn't tight and that was where the leak was (also noted that my sump isn't level as the water was appearing like 6" away from that point which is why I was thinking it was the tank itself). At some point it let go some and likely cracked/dislodged the silicone I had sealed it with. I thought tightening it would be enough but after filling the sump with enough water to submerge it, it was apparent it needed to be resiliconed. So I have done that. I guess the bonus is that my sump hasn't been this clean since I started the tank. I cleaned the skimmer too and all the equipment and junk that was lurking beneath the tank (and a couple creepy crawly spiders).

Note to self: don't freak out so bad next time. Although its really hard to think logically after sleeping in 2h shifts for the last couple months.

So my next question is, whats the minimum cure time for silicone before I can fill the sump back up and get the tank running again. I'd rather not leave it overnight if I don't have to (but if I do, I do. Will have to remember to add an airstone for the angel).

Thank you to all the suggestions guys, I really appreciate them. I'll be looking into that Orca underwater glue. Also we have no tank builders near us but the local buy and sells (craigslist, kijiji, usedwhereever) are quite active and Brad scoped me out a couple of replacement options. So glad I don't have to go that route (I hope!!)

[gregzz4]

Glad to hear you found a minor issue

To answer your question about the silicone, I'd let it sit for an absolute minimum of 24 hours with a fan blowing on it to help off-gas the VOCs and speed curing
Better would be a few days
When uncured silicone gets wet it turns to muck and you're done

So, if it were me, I'd buy a new bulkhead and install it without any silicone

Good luck my dear

[christyf5]

24h it is then. Thanks for the quick reply! :)

Sadly Nanaimo isn't exactly a reefing friendly town for those sorts of things. If its not anything I have stocked up on at J&L or what I can find out of town and brought home, its not accessable without going the mail order route (and for one bulkhead, that ain't happening). The one spare bulkhead I have here isn't the right size, and I'm not interested in redoing my plumbing (another nightmare in this town..*sigh*).

[Myka]

What size do you need Christy?

Hey guys, I'm not sure whether to be ticked off or relieved or a bit embarassed.

Celebrate!! :D

So, if it were me, I'd buy a new bulkhead and install it without any silicone

Me too. Bulkheads shouldn't have silicone on them to begin with.

[paddyob]

Silicon must be removed before fixing. For a reason I don't know, it just does not bond to the old silicon for a proper fix.


Don't putty it. As someone said, you might not sleep wondering if it is good enough.

Drain. Fix or replace. Fix is cheaper, but may take more time. I don't mess around. If its broke I replace. Period.

If its a mystery leak... Maybe the silicon is substandard. Maybe you will have another leak next week.

Know what I mean? How old is the sump?
Silicon breaks down over time like everything else.

[Lampshade]

As posted earlier, the Orca Reef Glue is amazing. I've used it on a few leaks, some very bad through different tanks and swear by that stuff now. I had my overflow separate from my tank and fixed it in water with the Orca glue and it's held for years now and can handle my overflow completely drained with full tank on the other side. I also fixed a sump leak that was really bad and that's been fine for a couple years now as well, without a drop leaking. It works right in the tank. It's is a bit ugly to work with and you'll have black fingers for a couple days, but it holds together GREAT. Would highly recommend for stuff like this were you need a quick fix before a replacement, but I've come to trust it enough to leave it as the main seal. It bonds to silicone it seems, and without cleaning I've had no problems. Much easier than draining, scraping, polishing and re applying silicone.

[Aquattro]

As posted earlier, the Orca Reef Glue is amazing.

That's what I used to fix my leak.

[christyf5]

well I've siliconed the bulkhead and will fill the sump later on. If its still leaking I'll replace the bulkhead. Theres nothing in town for bulkheads so I don't know where the hell I'm going to get one. Either that or I'll try to retrofit the one I have and see what I can do. The bulkhead I'm currently using is kind of flimsy anyways compared to the heavier duty (sch80?) ones. I suspect I bought it locally from a pet store or something as they always seem to carry cheaper ones.