lanthanum chloride

[mark]

while back read about this stuff but since now committed to buying a BRS reactor for GFO, thinking about it again.

Wondering if anyone here using lanthanum chloride or if did, why did you stop?

[Werbo]

I did a one time treatment when my phosphates were .36

[nrosdal]

I think TimT who is a vendor here may be able to explain this as i am pretty sure that is what is in his phoz down product(if i am assuming correctly). I have tried a product with this in past and liked the result but am waiting for my new doser to come in before i try it again as dosing daily is a bit tedious. But when using it the only down side i found was filter socks plugging faster.

[Werbo]

Used Seaclear Commercial Strength PO4 Remover for pools. My tank is 150G. I dosed 2.5 ml into 4l of RO water and dripped overnight into my large overflow before a 10 micron felt sock.

There is a good thread on reefcentral:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1474839

and a good article in coral magazine
http://www.coralmagazine-us.com/content/foiling-phosphate

Didn't sleep well that night but it took my PO4 down to .07 the next morning Then I put gfo back online. Saw no ill effects, no drop in alk and tangs breathing was normal (common side effect of overdosing or LC reaching DT). Personally would not want to use it regularly or long term.

[mark]

well with un-expired reagents my PO4 is around 0.5ppm. Thinking I'll see about picking up some Foz Down if I can find locally, drip that to get my numbers down then move to GFO.

[lastlight]

I've got a large bottle of Aqua NoPhos which is apparently the equivalent here to the SeaKlear (which I could not seem to source) and made by the same mfr. I never got brave enough to try it but I'm sure that bottle alone could keep my levels low for the rest of my life. Dirt cheap I'm just scared to try it. I've got a spare dosing channel I'm itching to use lol.

My concern is my levels are already at around the 0.04 / 0.05 level and I think at lower levels the stuff isn't as effective and will simply go through my sock and probably precipitate out in my display.

[mark]

sort of what I've seen, LC good to bring down levels but then since a bit of pita other methods (gfo) for long term. A doser with 10 micro sock would ease things just frequent sock changes.

[Werbo]

The hard part is finding 10 micron sock. Typical aquarium socks are 100-200 micron and the LC will pass right through that even if PO4 is attached to it.

I would not recommend LC if your PO4 is under .10 as it will lower alk.

[mark]

Thought was Foz Down but appears none in Edm. Guess it's off to the pool places to go bulk. Need socks also as all mine 100's

[freezetyle]

If you ask your lfs for a 10 micron sock I'm sure they can get them in for you. We can at least here in Vic.

[Myka]

Wondering if anyone here using lanthanum chloride or if did, why did you stop?

I'm not sure if any manufacturers are suggesting continued dosing, but it's not something I would dose continually. Personally, I have used it as a one time treatment when "cooking" live rock to quickly lower phosphate in rock that was LOADED with phosphate.

[TimT]

Hi Everyone,

Thought I would chime in on this thread.

There is three types of Lanthanum available on the market.
The buffered variety that they use to control phosphate in people.
The pool variety which I wouldn't recommend using as who knows whether there is an algaecide(like copper) in it or they could begin adding it to enhance the product. Not worth the risk imho.
The aquarium variety. I personally have used the aquarium variety for 3 years to keep my phosphates between .02mg/l and .06mg/l in my SPS system with no effect on Alkalinity. The raw product comes highly concentrated and is very expensive. Some people have bad math skills and have overdosed the concentrated product and stressed and/or killed corals/fish. I have created Foz Down to have a safe concentration to minimize this risk. When directions are followed there is no ill effects.

I will have 4 inch 10 micron filter socks in stock this week.

Cheers,
Tim

[lastlight]

This is what I have:

http://www.ilovemyoasis.com/commercial/pdf/law/no_phos.pdf

I'm wondering if they'd have to list things like copper etc on this document if it contained anything other than LC?

[mark]

Tim: no Foz Down in Edm, nor can I say I've ever seen 10 micro socks can I order from you?

[nrosdal]

Thought was Foz Down but appears none in Edm. Guess it's off to the pool places to go bulk. Need socks also as all mine 100's


I might know a guy who is bringing some in this week if you are still on the hunt for it.:mrgreen:

[TimT]

Hi,

This is what I have:

http://www.ilovemyoasis.com/commerci...aw/no_phos.pdf

I'm wondering if they'd have to list things like copper etc on this document if it contained anything other than LC?

I checked the MSDS and it does not list copper. It does not list the purity of the LC which can be from 99% to 99.999%. It also does not mention the liquid used to dissolve the LC in. So who knows what is exactly in the product.

The reason for using LC in pools is to control algae. They also use Copper sulfate to control algae in pools. It could make a more powerful product to control algae by adding copper to the LC. They could also try cutting costs by reducing the LC and adding Copper to keep the net effect the same. There is so many variables that could affect the ingredients it's hard to know. To me it's not worth the risk of experimenting by using a pool based product.

For a 100 gallon system a $30 bottle of Foz Down will neutralize 10mg/l of Phosphate. This would probably last for a year with an average fish load. I have personally tested the aquarium grade for 3 years on my acro culture system with no ill effects. I know the product is safe for acros, clams, shrimp etc. I have no experience with the pool product.

Is money saved by buying the pool product and is it worth the risk of not knowing until it's too late.

Cheers,
Tim

[Myka]

Tim, you use the product continually? Like once a week or dripped with a doser?

[TimT]

Hi Mindy,

Tim, you use the product continually? Like once a week or dripped with a doser?

Yes, I add the diluted product into my magnesium mix. This gets dosed into sump 16 times a day.

It would probably be fine in the Calcium mix too but I have Strontium mixed into that one.

Another option is the water reservoir for the ATO water. I don't use a reservoir/pump style ATO so I am stuck with adding it into the Magnesium bucket.

You can see how the corals do in this pic of my system from a while ago. When I took the photo I had been dosing Foz Down daily for over a year.
http://www.oceanfreshaquarium.com/aquarium-additives/

Cheers,
Tim

[Myka]

Interesting Tim, thanks for sharing. :)

[bignose]

Mark, I have a 240ml bottle 3/4 full you can have, I bought it but never used it all. LMK if you are interested.

[bignose]

I probably should have mentioned its Foz Down.

[jordsyke]

Hey tim, does it have to be dosed into a 10 micron filter sock?, I have a 300 micron filter sock I could dose it into. I do not keep sps only softies

[lastlight]

To me it's not worth the risk of experimenting by using a pool based product.

I obviously agree with you as I've had the stuff for a while and have been too uncertain to use it. I'm not asking you to divulge exactly what fozdown is and I'm actually content to hear you outright say it is different than these pool products which quite a few people have tried.

When my current supply of gfo is out I'm going to try out your product. Hopefully it and a suitable filter sock will be be easy to obtain when that time comes. Thanks for the info.

[TimT]

Hey Tim, does it have to be dosed into a 10 micron filter sock?, I have a 300 micron filter sock I could dose it into. I do not keep sps only softies

The reason people want to use filter socks is to remove the flocks of LC and Phosphate. Some people are concerned that there might be a potential for the bound phosphate to be released back into the system. There is no scientific studies on this that I am aware of.

The medical variety LC does not release the bound phosphate even when it's in a persons stomach acid so it seems highly unlikely that it would release it at the pH of a marine tank.

I just dose it directly into the sump and let the flocks settle out in the sump. I do clean the normal detritus that tends to build up in the sump on a regular basis.

If you have a high flow rate through the filter socks some of the product will pass through before reacting with the phosphate.

I am bringing in the 10 micron filter socks to offer people the alternative to just letting the flocks settle out.

Hopefully it and a suitable filter sock will be be easy to obtain when that time comes. Thanks for the info.

Glad to have been able to help. More and more stores are carrying Foz Down. If your favourite store does not carry it they can order it through some of the distributors(Aqua Digital and Reef Supply Canada) that offer it. If they don't want to bring it in we can set something up. The 10 micron filter socks arrive tomorrow.

Cheers,
Tim

[badAZZlars]

I just bought some Brightwell Aquatics Phosphat-E from JL aquatics. I bought some live rock for my new setup and its leached phosphates into the water where it got to .32 and the GHA was starting to grow.

I believe it is Lanthanum Chloride and it seems to be working well. Have already brought it down to .21 after a quick initial dose. Should have it down around zero within a couple days. I've been dosing it directly into the inlet of the skimmer.

[Ulmo]

FYI found a lanthanum chloride product called "agent green" by acrylic tank manufacturing. Available at Big Al's. $19, 118ml, treats 1250g @ 1ppm phosphate.

Going to try it on my pukani bin which is currently at ~.75 ppm.

Cheers

http://acrylictankmanufacturing.com/products/water-treatment/additives/agent-green-phosphate-remover/

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-sOctb_n_sJ0/U5OSlY7woII/AAAAAAAAFcQ/_UVSErs6los/s1920-Ut/IMG_20140607_162953.jpg

[Ulmo]

Agent green seems to be doing the job. Phosphate at .03 or less in my curing bin.