Question from a Sump Newbie

[Cap'n]

Couldn't I simply have a small overflow on the main tank and one in the sump with returns going to tank and sump? That way if one of the pumps within the overflows failed the maximum amount the tank could overfill or spill would be controlled by the overflow?

Hope this makes sense...

[Azilla]

ummmm How would it over fill with a overflow???if the tank water of the main tank drops below overflow level thats in no more water going down.Even of you sump broke you water level in your tank wouldnt drain all. :rolleyes:

[Cap'n]

Yeah, that's what I meant. I was only asking because it seems all the plumbing descriptions I have read are so damn complicated with different valves, bulkheads, closed loops, etc. If all I need is another overflow and powerhead than I'm adding another tank! For some reason I didn't think it could be so simple.

[Azilla]

well its real easy.

From your overflow run a 1inch pipe. to the sump thats all.
Then from your your sump hook up your pump to a 3/4inch pipe
and run that to your tank. that is the return.

If u have a predrilled tank it will have a 1inch hole and 3/4inch hole on will need a 1inch bulkhead and 3/4inch bulkhead these are used to suppose the hole to pipe threw the glass. Its really up to u kinda look at your tank and draw the best route for both. then figure out what u need for a standard simple setup u dont need vavles and stuff.

[Cap'n]

Why 1" out and 3/4" return? Is there a reason for the different sizes? Easier to pump the return line through a smaller hose I would imagine, is there anything else?

I don't have predrilled anything, don't plan to go that far yet.

So I don't even need the extra powerhead in the overflow, I just use gravity and put the powerhead in the sump for the return line, it keeps getting easier! Now, if I wanted to put the two tanks beside each other I would have to go with something more like my original description.

I guess because I was never really using the info I was reading about plumbing I just skimmed over it.

[roverT]

cpt just wondering since your tank is not predrilled are you planning on going with something like a CPR overflow? If so a powerhead sucking out the air is needed IMO.

[Azilla]

well almost all Overflow is gravity fed and alse u need is a pump for a return line. I mean u can used a Rubber flex hose to both return andoverflow. Dont really need pvc

[Cap'n]

cpt just wondering since your tank is not predrilled are you planning on going with something like a CPR overflow? If so a powerhead sucking out the air is needed IMO.

What's a CPR overflow?

My skimmer has a small overflow box hooked to it. This is in the tank and the powerhead that feeds the skimmer in in the overflow box. I figured I could just get / make a similar over flow box for the sump / other tank.

Before all the questions start about "Why do you have it set up that way?", a bit of background. I bought the whole setup a couple years ago from a guy I worked with who no longer had the time to take care of it (never did a good job IMO). He bought it from another guy a couple years previously. It is my saltwater learning tank. Now, thanks to all you, I am on to the plumbing chapter.

[Cap'n]

Why 1" out and 3/4" return? Is there a reason for the different sizes? Easier to pump the return line through a smaller hose I would imagine, is there anything else?

[Cap'n]

What's a CPR overflow?

[MitchM]

CPR is a company that manufactures acrylic overflows.
Wai's used to carry them, and maybe still does, if you wanted to see one.

...and I'm guessing that a gravity fed larger drain line going to the sump is to compensate for a pump-driven smaller return line to the main tank.

HTH,
Mitch

[Cap'n]

cpt just wondering since your tank is not predrilled are you planning on going with something like a CPR overflow? If so a powerhead sucking out the air is needed IMO.

Is this to ensure the siphon restarts in the case of a power outage (like the one I had this morning!)

Could you explain how this works?

[Invigor]

in my experience, overflows made NO sense at all to me until I actually hooked it up and figured out how it worked by watching it. If you have a friend that's running a sump/overflow setup, get him to show you how it all works. That'll be MUCH easier to understand than reading about it.

when you're doing your return plumbing REMEMBER TO DRILL A SMALL HOLE just above the water level so if the power goes out, it doesn't syphon the water outta your tank thru your returns. I learned that one the hard way :(

[Richer]

when you're doing your return plumbing REMEMBER TO DRILL A SMALL HOLE just above the water level so if the power goes out, it doesn't syphon the water outta your tank thru your returns. I learned that one the hard way :(

I agree with that 100%.

-Richer

[Cap'n]

in my experience, overflows made NO sense at all to me until I actually hooked it up and figured out how it worked by watching it. If you have a friend that's running a sump/overflow setup, get him to show you how it all works. That'll be MUCH easier to understand than reading about it.

when you're doing your return plumbing REMEMBER TO DRILL A SMALL HOLE just above the water level so if the power goes out, it doesn't syphon the water outta your tank thru your returns. I learned that one the hard way :(

I have studied a few overflows in action, but I agree, I won't learn any better way than to try it myself. Just don't understand how I can run a powerhead (which is suppsed to never be run dry) to suck air out of an overflow?

Good advice about the siphon-stop, but I think I am going to sidestep that possibility by having my external eheim canister filter pull from the sump and return to the reef tank via a spray bar mounted above the water level.

[Invigor]

still drill the holes, they're small and don't cause problems. they cause more problems if they're not there :)

I don't understand your concept behind the ehiem though..it can't pull nothin out if the power's off.

[Cap'n]

Because the holes in the eheim spray bar will be mounted above the water surface of the reef tank they would essentially serve the same purpose as drilling a hole in the elbow above a return line.

ie: the return line will not be below the water surface so it could not form a back-siphon.

Kind of confused me with the non-powered eheim comment?



Invigor and Richer, thanks a lot for this discussion, really helping a lot to bounce my ideas and plans off a couple experienced folks. Wish I could draw a diagram!

[Invigor]

hey, not a problem. feel free to shoot away. I had many of the same questions you had before I got mine going. now due to space I don't have a sump :rolleyes:

[Quinster]

If you can, the easiest way would be drill all the tanks with "in tank" overflows (you have small tanks so ripping them down to do so isn't that hard....just ripped apart my 180g and lifted it with the help of 4 friends) and stack the tanks one over the other so that the top runs to the middle then the middle to the bottom then to the sump which returns to the top again...have used this system in the past with 2 50g and a 40g sump...never had a problem.

[Cap'n]

Thought of stacking the tanks early on in the planning stages, but I really wanted to have all the fish and corals, etc. at an optimal viewing height. It will look much nicer in in this configuration after the stand is complete as well.

[Invigor]

mmm, I love sumps :cool: