What Anemone to get, and where?

[Bob I]

I have two wild caught Ocellaris Clowns that I have had for almost three years. These clowns currently occupy Conch shells. They really own these shells. I have even observed one of the clowns trying to feed a shell. I also have a 33 gallon tank (36x18x12"), I would like to make this a dedicated Clown Anemone tank. The tank is lit with 110W of PC lighting. Now what I would like to know is what do you experts feel would be the best Anemone to get, and where? I have never owned an Anemone, so I would not attempt this without some real advice. So go to it, advise me. :confused: :rolleyes:

[ 10 September 2002, 17:22: Message edited by: Bob Ipema ]

[AJ_77]

Bob, have you missed this link (http://www.canreef.com/ubb6/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=14;t=000204) in the Calgary forum?

Get a rose BTA!

AJ :D

[spikehs]

bob, if you WERE thinking of getting a rose, i would put yourself on the waiting list ASAP, i have no idea how long it is, but of course, dont get one untill you know what you are doin :D . Jayson says they will probably be about $100-165 i think, and pretty small 1-3inches. FYI a rose bta is NOT a natural host for occelaris, but seeing as they ARE wild, you would probably have better success at maching them up.

[Bob I]

Well so far all I know is that Rose BTA's are distant relatives of the nuisance Glass Anemones, and a three inch one would certainly not support two 2.5" clowns. So, more ideas?

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

Keep in mind that BTAs (rose or the regular brown/green) are not natural hosts to the Ocellaris. There is a remote 1% chance that they will not take it as a host.

But, if you really want a rose BTA, I would try the regular one first. If you can keep it alive or thrive for a least a year, then you can trade it in for the rose.

BTA are the easiest of the anemones to keep because they tend to need less light than the other anemones. The long tentacle is the next easiest, followed by the Sebae, the ritteri, carpet and saddle. The last three are quite hard to keep and I have only read of several people around the world that have kept them for more than 2 years. Unfortunately, the natural host for this clownfish is very hard to keep (carpet). Do avoid the Condylactis anemone...none of the clownfishes have been known or have been seen to take this as a host.

I would recommend the Joyce Wilkerson book on Clownfish. Its a good book if you are planning to breed them.

- Victor.

[ 10 September 2002, 19:18: Message edited by: reefburnaby ]

[DJ88]

Bob,

Go BTA. Start with one of the easiest. Don't buy anything else. Tho I don't recommend anyone buying any anemones. Too high a %age die in captivity. Way to high. If you go for the easiest you can learn(or try to) what these creatures need as far as feeding and light(yes they need food too) fish carrying food sometimes isn't enough.

Personally.. I'd put in a type of coral that clowns are known to host in(many LPS and softies). There is no real reason to buy an anemone if the clowns are in a tnak. They don't need the protection that the anemone provides in nature. The clowns will be just as happy and you have saved one anemone from possible death. Heck I have seen clowns mate without a host all together.

If you feel you HAVE to get one :rolleyes: , stay away from Carpets, Sebaes, Ritteri etc etc.

Victor,

There are many documented cases of condy's hosting clowns of various kinds.

I personally have had both Perc's and Oscellaris host in a condy. And have read of many others on a few different boards.

[reefburnaby]

Darren,

Hmm...thanks for the info. I though the condy caused skin irritation on the clown because the condy is from a different part of the ocean (Atlantic). I guess I am wrong.

The problem with using corals as hosts is that your coral has to be quite strong. The constant nagging of the clowns can upset the coral and cause it to receed.

- Victor.

[ 10 September 2002, 20:38: Message edited by: reefburnaby ]

[Delphinus]

Anemone keeping is both an art and a science.

BTA's tend to make ideal "first" anemones because of their broader tolerances in certain parameters.

I generally am offended by the notion of "ranking" species in terms of ease rating or difficulty rating. These rankings are generally wrong anyways IMHO. And greatly oversimplify a pretty complicated scenario. The bottom line is ALL anemones are "high needs" animals, no exceptions. Some are more particular than others though, some are more demanding than others; but a lot of it depends on an individual's attitude. Some are survivors, and some ... well ... aren't.

BTA's do just as badly as other species when first collected. The statistics are very bad for anemones in the first year. This is, I feel, due largely in part to the general reefkeeping public's ignorance towards these animals. For example, people keep insisting on keeping them more than one to a tank. This is very often fatal!!! And guess what happens in dealer's tanks, in distributors tanks, etc. etc. -- chockablock full of stressed out anemones. And stress is contagious.

Thus, the key to successful selection is dealing with a reputable dealer who cares about the well-being of the anemone.

Unfortunately, from what I've seen that more or less eliminates ALL of them. Sorry guys. Prove me wrong. I must say, I have YET to see any retailer who truly loves anemones and cares about their well-being. Most of the time, anemones are second-class citizens.

Your best bet is to find a specimen from a fellow hobbyists tank. Luckily in the case of BTA's, splits are a fairly common occurence and thus it is usually not difficult at all to find a "captive split". These really are the best bets. They have already demonstrated their adaptation to life in captivity.

...

This is a snippet from a post I made in the past: (I felt it worthy of repeating)

Don't feel that your fish "need" an anemone -- in captivity, they don't. They're not stressed out without one. The converse is also true, an anemone in captivity doesn't "need" a clownfish. So, don't get an anemone because you have clownfish, and feel that the fish need an anemone. If you do get an anemone, do it because you love anemones and want to care for one, and if you have the clownfish/anemone relationship happening in your tank, then treat that as a happy bonus.

If you want to consider anemones, or even clownfish, there are a couple of books that simply belong on your bookshelf. If you only get one of the following two books, get this first one. "Clownfish" by Joyce Wilkerson. A great read, talks about their natural history, all the different species, how to start breeding them, etc. A great section on anemones in there too. The second book is "A Field Guide to Anemonefish and their Host Sea Anemones" by Drs. Daphne Fautin and Gerald Allen -- the absolute foremost authorities on host anemones. More of a description of the animals in nature, but there is a section about captive care of clownfish. Both are great books and I myself read them time and again.

[Delphinus]

PS. Victor, it is nice to be thought of one of "several people around the world that have kept them for more than 2 years."

:D

BTA E. quadricolor: four years and counting. A regular splitter (Bob, if you want one, I can keep you in mind for my next split.)

Green carpet S. haddoni: two years and counting.

Ritteri H. magnifica: 1.5 years and counting.

I beleive the key to success is a clear understanding of the very precise requirements of lighting, water movement/current, feeding, and substrate selection to which every species has its own unique preferences. Anemones don't adapt to different scenarios. They need what they need, and if the requirements are not met, the anemone is stressed. Simple as that.

The second rule of thumb is protecting them from diffuse competition from other individuals. Two anemones may get along fine in a tank, but it's a risk. Overcrowding in a confined space is a definite no-no.

[ 10 September 2002, 20:57: Message edited by: delphinus ]

[sumpfinfishe]

Hi Bob, well if I was you I would get a green carpet anemone. I had one for two years and just recently traded it in to my l.f.s. It was not hard to keep and my pink skunk clowns loved it! The female would sleep inside, while the male would rest underneath at the base. I did feed it once a month with a good chunk of brine shrimp or krill. This action was taken because the clowns can be rather greedy when it comes to meal time.I traded in the carpet as it simply outgrew my tank. Now I do not own an anemone instead however my skunks have taken to two new host- a triple crown of pink frogspawn and underneath two frags of hammer coral. I would get another carpet if I was planning a anemone/clown combo only, but any other case-no way as it's just not worth loosing a favorite fish to a hungry carpet. And yes, Joyce's book "clownfishes" is a must have for anyone who wants to keep anemones or clownfish.
Happy Reefing! smile.gif

[spikehs]

Bob,

the rose anemones are bta's...And they are only that small size now, they can/will grow quite big (then probably split).

[Samw]

[ 11 September 2002, 10:11: Message edited by: Sam W ]

[Bob I]

I am thankful for all the suggestions (help). I am not afraid to try something a little more difficult, Cleaner Wrasses are not supposed to live, but mine is approaching three years. I think I will put myself on Tony's list for a split, as his conditions do not vary greatly from my own. OK Tony? :rolleyes:
And Sam, why the blank post. :confused: :confused:

[canadawest]

I have sucessfully kept my BTAs for over a year now. I've got two in my tank, the smaller one having split from the larger one about 6 months ago, and the second split since I've had it.

While I do agree they are one of the easier Anemones to keep they require a stable tank and adequate lighting. I've kept mine under VHO and they keep growing and spliting. I rarely feed them as the hosting Oscellaris clowns do feed them, but agree that feeding is as important as adequate lighting.

PS.. I am selling my split BTA (4-5") if anyone is interested, but unfortunately only to local reefkeepers as I don't wish to ship. ($25)

[Bob I]

I realise of course that the clowns do not need an Anemone as they have happily lived in their shells for almost three years. I have seen the clown Anemone relationships, and I would like to see that in my own tank. There is almost nothing in the 33 except for one litle Bicolor Pseudochromis, My big Colt, Hairy Mushrooms, and one corner has become devoted to some Halimeda. I would, therefore, like to give an Anemone a shot. :D :D

[Dez]

I would disagree with condylactis anemones not being host anemones. I have a friend that has had his tomato clown pair for almost 12 years and they use the condylactis anemone as their host. He's had different condylactis anemones over the 12 years, some of which he has kept for years, but the Tomato clowns will always use them as a host. However, I don't think that it's the norm that clowns would go to a condylactis anemone. I'm not posting to be in conflict with anyone, just wanting to give an example of something possible that's out of the norm. Cheers smile.gif

Des

[EmilyB]

And then there were three:

http://members.shaw.ca/bhadford1/3bta.jpg

Well, if you decide not to wait, I finally have a clone on a separate rock.

Don't be concerned with the maroons, they occupy all four anemones now... :rolleyes:

I now know the 2 x 50% water change thing is indeed an almost guarantee for a split, as this is exactly what happened the first time.

So if you don't want to try it Bob, anyone else who is interested, let me know.

Fully returnable if your clowns won't host, or if you run into problems.

[Delphinus]

I now know the 2 x 50% water change thing is indeed an almost guarantee for a split, as this is exactly what happened the first time.


That could be. But I have one observation to share: All of my splits that I've ever had ... all of them ... have been inside of two weeks from an equinox (vernal or autumnal).

Guess what. We're inside of two weeks from the fall equinox.

"Could be" coincidence. But I've now seen this so often that I really am beginning to wonder...

[EmilyB]

Fine Bob. You have PM.

[Bob I]

I would be more than happy to purchase one from you Deb. The beauty is that the host to be tank has only a Dottyback in it. So the new anemone can settle in before adding the clowns. I will be away for the weekend, so next week at the earliest.
Bob

[EmilyB]

Well. The anemone has now climbed back onto the main 20lb rock with it's siblings.

I don't really know what to do now. :confused:

[EmilyB]

Got one Bob... :D He's the newest clone, so his mouth is still recovering. I've trapped him, with a small rock.

Are you still interested ? I'll make sure he is eating first.

[ 15 September 2002, 21:19: Message edited by: EmilyB ]

[Bob I]

I am still interested, but confused. My latest email says the anemone had moved onto a big rock. Is this post later or earlier than that one?

[EmilyB]

Yes. They all seem to like to live together on that monster rock.

However, I could see that one hadn't buried its base in a hole, so I gently and slowly worked away at the base tonite to remove it.

[Bob I]

OK, would you keep me updated as to availability then?
thanks,
Bob

[EmilyB]

I will Bob. I want to keep an eye on it for a bit, but since I'm keeping it in the QT, it's in low light, and I may opt to get it to you sooner vs later. I will let you know.

[EmilyB]

This anemone is b@tt ugly. I don't think I've ever had the opportunity to study a clone so closely...

Anyway, it has perked up nicely, given the poor lighting. It ate today, so that is a good sign.

Alan has been so kind as to offer to deliver it to you as I guess he is seeing you anyway.

It will look much better when it expands under decent light, and as time goes on....I'm pretty certain of that tongue.gif

If you still want it, email or pm me to discuss the details.

http://www.members.shaw.ca/bhadford1/Butthead.jpg

[Bob I]

Butt Ugly has arrived and is settling in. The only cloud on the horizon is the Aiptasia that came along with the rock. They are not expanded fully, but look like Aiptasia. What to do about them? :eek: