herbie and basement sump

[MarkoD]

I just setup a new tank and the sump is in the basement.

I have a gate valve about 2 feet below the overflow, a union right below it and then about another 12 feet of 1.5 inch pvc down to the sump.

i cant seem to get the overflow completely silent.

it seems like there is air coming in through the union right below the gate valve which is causing noise. I have it tightened as much as possible but still i get noise from it.

any idea on how to resolve this without removing the union?

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

If its air entering and no water leaking out of the union, perhaps a very, very light coat of aquarium safe silicone can seal the leak and make it more air tight. Just enough so that you can still open up the union if you need to. [I'm assuming that opening the union is not something that you will normally need to do, other than for a major plumbing project or tank tear-down]. If nothing else, it should eliminate the leaking union as a possible cause and you can check else where in your plumbing for the source of the air/noise.

[mark]

you say can't get overflow silent, but where's the noise? Is it gurgling in the line below the gate valve?

With mine I placed the gate just above the sump so the drain is full of water and area around the tank is silent.

[WarDog]

you say can't get overflow silent, but where's the noise? Is it gurgling in the line below the gate valve?

With mine I placed the gate just above the sump so the drain is full of water and area around the tank is silent.

+1. Move the valve to the basement just above the sump.

[MarkoD]

+1. Move the valve to the basement just above the sump.

but how would that work with adjusting the valve. wont making adjustments be a huge pain in the butt. always going up and down for every minor adjustment.

[MarkoD]

you say can't get overflow silent, but where's the noise? Is it gurgling in the line below the gate valve?

With mine I placed the gate just above the sump so the drain is full of water and area around the tank is silent.

yes its gurgling right below the gate valve. but i sounds like really fine bubbles

and there seems to be a click/knocking sound once in a while.

[mark]

but how would that work with adjusting the valve. wont making adjustments be a huge pain in the butt. always going up and down for every minor adjustment.

couple of times up and down the stairs every 6 weeks re-adjusting after opening to flush out the snail shells not a big deal. Usually though what causes need for adjustment is filter sock dirty, swap it then don't even need to touch the valve.

[MarkoD]

Seems like I've adjusted this one 100 time so far and i can't get it right

[ronau]

Seems like I've adjusted this one 100 time so far and i can't get it right

Is it salty yet? I haven't tested this yet but I've heard that Herbies can't be tuned with freshwater.

[MarkoD]

Yup it's salty. I have it kinda quiet now. But there seems to be a gushing sound at the valve. Like water isn't going through smooth

[mark]

even with a gate valve it's very very small adjustments then need to wait few minutes between touching it. Also first time up might take a bit of playing cause you're balancing against your sump level, height in overflow, evap and ATO. When I converted from Dursos to get everything how I wanted ended up adjusting height of last baffle. Since then truly pretty much set and forget.

[MarkoD]

Oh that could be the issue then. I'm using a Rubbermaid as a sump until I take apart my other tank and move the sump. There's no baffle in this Rubbermaid so the water level is all over the place

[FishyFishy!]

The deapth that the water enters the sump can be an issue as well. How far does your drain pipe go under water in the sump? The water heights can make a big difference too, so I wouldn't worry too much about it until you get that other sump in place.

[gregzz4]

yes its gurgling right below the gate valve. but i sounds like really fine bubbles

and there seems to be a click/knocking sound once in a while.
I have a 'fuge above my sump and I get this sometimes (new sump planned - no divorced 'fuge)
In my case it's air being sucked into the standpipe
The vortec is pretty strong, even at only a couple hundred gph, and creates noises/bubbles. Clicking, thumping what have you
It's very sensitive to the level in my sump and as was stated in your case, your temp sump is probably the cause
The only way I can get rid of the gurgling/clicking/etc is to plug the standpipe with the bulb of my turkey baster until the 'fuge is quite full. The extra water height flushes all the air out and it's done - 'till I mess with a pump again and upset the sump levels :rolleyes:
Using the bulb allows the flush without messing with the gate valve

With that said ... maybe you can still fix it with the temp sump in place
What's the water level above your main standpipe ?
Not that there's a magic #, but I'd be looking in the overflow box to see there's not a vortec happening there

[MarkoD]

I have a 'fuge above my sump and I get this sometimes (new sump planned - no divorced 'fuge)
In my case it's air being sucked into the standpipe
The vortec is pretty strong, even at only a couple hundred gph, and creates noises/bubbles. Clicking, thumping what have you
It's very sensitive to the level in my sump and as was stated in your case, your temp sump is probably the cause
The only way I can get rid of the gurgling/clicking/etc is to plug the standpipe with the bulb of my turkey baster until the 'fuge is quite full. The extra water height flushes all the air out and it's done - 'till I mess with a pump again and upset the sump levels :rolleyes:
Using the bulb allows the flush without messing with the gate valve

With that said ... maybe you can still fix it with the temp sump in place
What's the water level above your main standpipe ?
Not that there's a magic #, but I'd be looking in the overflow box to see there's not a vortec happening there


There's about 5" of water over the opening . I can see that there's no air being sucked in. But I sometimes see bubbles coming out.

I'll probably end up putting a second valve closer to the sump

[duncangweller]

If you put a second valve in then surely you will end up doing twice as much fine tuning. I would just have the one valve closer to the sump

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[Madreefer]

My gate valves are in my stand 30" from tank.
Pipes drop down 8' in to the sump and the outlet is just a tad under the waterline in the sump.
I have no noise at all so I would think it's your union causing the noise.
I would also be bothered with going up and down the stairs to adjust the gate valves. Tuning my herbies is a PIA, just too finicky. I miss my dursos.

[sphelps]

The further away the valve is from the sump the harder it will be to tune, it can be done but it takes longer for it to "settle" after each adjustment. The issue relates to the pressure difference over the valve and the further away the valve is from the sump the higher the vacuum effect after the valve which is ultimately what causes the noise (almost like cavitation). Adding an additional valve at the sump level is a decent solution, even if it's just a ball valve, it will allow you to reduce the pressure difference on the first valve and hence reduce the noise there while also making it easier to tune.

[MarkoD]

Yeah I'll add a second valve and keep the first open. It can't be removed now that the tank is in place