Cycle question

[darkreef]

I want to cycle my new tank before I swap out.
Can I cycle with live rock with no light on the tank .
I could feed a little plankton for the pods no ?
Since there won't be no algae .

Was just going to take some live rock from my sump
And add a few water changes from my existing tank

[Myka]

You don't need light for the tank to cycle, and you don't need to feed it. In fact, you shouldn't feed it while it is cycling.

[Chase31]

This is my own knowledge so you may want to wait for someone with more knowledge to pipe up. But if you transfer from tank to tank with minimal air time you should get no cycle. Unless your using ur own rock plus more live. If you transfer all livestock and rock at the same time the tank will be cycled. You are cycling the rocks not the tank.

[Myka]

After reading Chase's response...I was assuming you were cycling NEW rock. If you're ONLY using old rock from your old system then like Chase says, it shouldn't cause any ammonia spikes and shouldn't require any cycling.

[asylumdown]

+1 to the others. If all the rock from your old tank is going in to the new tank, and there's no new uncured live rock going in to the new tank, your cycle will be so small it will probably be undetectable.

You only need to worry about it if you're using all new rock in the new tank.

[Skimmer Juice]

+1 to the others. If all the rock from your old tank is going in to the new tank, and there's no new uncured live rock going in to the new tank, your cycle will be so small it will probably be undetectable.

You only need to worry about it if you're using all new rock in the new tank.

so say the tank you were doing a swap from was 60g and the new tank was a 100g . Could you just swap everything over ,if you were not adding anything new. Except for the water you have to add to fill the extra 40g ? It would be just like doing a 40g water change?

[darkreef]

40 gallon to 150 gallon.
52lbs of cured live rock

Would the parameter stay stable for my corals ?

[asylumdown]

so say the tank you were doing a swap from was 60g and the new tank was a 100g . Could you just swap everything over ,if you were not adding anything new. Except for the water you have to add to fill the extra 40g ? It would be just like doing a 40g water change?

that's what I would do. Personally I wouldn't even take the water. It would be like a big 100% water change, which every once in a while isn't such a bad idea to do, but that idea freaks some people out.

The only thing I would never take with me from one tank to another was the sand. Sand beds fill up with so much gunk and detritus over time that I think transferring a sand bed from one tank to another will cause more problems than it's worth. In that case you'll lose whatever nitrification capacity your sand was adding, but then I'd just test for ammonia every day for a week or so and dose prime if anything popped up.

[The Grizz]

Should not be a problem, just make sure the rock stays wet as to not cause any die off. I went from a 65 to a 155 the same way and had no issues at all. Take all the rock out you can without disturbing the sand ( if you have sand ) remove all the water you can again without disturbing the sand. Then pull out the rest of the rock, give it a quick dip in some fresh salt water and into the tank. If you are planning to use the sand from the small tank, give it a good cleaning first to remove any built up toxins.

[asylumdown]

40 gallon to 150 gallon.
52lbs of cured live rock

Would the parameter stay stable for my corals ?

There's a risk any time you transfer a tank, no matter how you do it. They'll stay stable if you are proactive about testing for them and responding before anything gets too out of whack. Your live rock isn't taking care of 100% of the nitrogen cycle in your tank since biofilms develop on pretty much every available surface, but it's definitely responsible for most of it due to the huge surface area. It's been my experience that live rock's capacity for dealing with nitrogenous wastes is pretty elastic once it's established. If you give the new system a good couple of weeks before adding new fish, I don't think you'll see anything bad happen, but definitely test for ammonia regularly for the first 10 days or so and have a bottle of Prime and the capacity to do a larger water change on hand just in case.

I would also try and disturb your live rock as little as possible. For example, try and place them in the new tank in similar orientations relative to the light source so that you don't have a mass die-back of photosynthesizing and photophobic life in the first few weeks. The undersides of all my rocks are covered in sponges that would be toast if I suddenly flipped the rock upside down, and nitrifying bacteria are photophobic, so they're probably more concentrated in areas that are currently shaded/in the dark in your current tank. If you try and maintain that for the first little bit it can only decrease the risk.

[darkreef]

Kay sweet It should be up in running next week then :) thanks

[asylumdown]

Should not be a problem, just make sure the rock stays wet as to not cause any die off. I went from a 65 to a 155 the same way and had no issues at all. Take all the rock out you can without disturbing the sand ( if you have sand ) remove all the water you can again without disturbing the sand. Then pull out the rest of the rock, give it a quick dip in some fresh salt water and into the tank. If you are planning to use the sand from the small tank, give it a good cleaning first to remove any built up toxins.

My logic on the sand - unless you've gone out of your way to get 'real' live sand as a seed source, there isn't going to be any life in your sand that isn't also in the rocks you're moving. Life that will be pulverized and smashed to bits by the act of removing and washing it. I'd just start fresh, but that doesn't mean anything bad will necessarily happen if you don't.

[The Grizz]

My logic on the sand - unless you've gone out of your way to get 'real' live sand as a seed source, there isn't going to be any life in your sand that isn't also in the rocks you're moving. Life that will be pulverized and smashed to bits by the act of removing and washing it. I'd just start fresh, but that doesn't mean anything bad will necessarily happen if you don't.

Very true but not everyone likes to by new sand so it is an option to clean it.

[Aquattro]

If it were me, I'd use almost all new water in the new tank and use the old one as a rinse for the rock as it comes out. Really swish it around to loosen any crud built up. The whole keep it wet pretty much means don't let it dry out for a couple hours. Don't be afraid to stack it in a bucket for 20 minutes while you figure which piece is going where.

[asylumdown]

Very true but not everyone likes to by new sand so it is an option to clean it.

ah very true, hadn't thought about it like that. I've still got 120 pounds of the the stuff taking up space in my garage from when I first set up my tank that I literally couldn't give away back when I first tried, so I keep forgetting that it actually does cost money at some point.

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Posting as someone who just did a big switch over (2' non-RR cube & RSM 130 to a 2' RR cube, 93g RR 30" cube & 2'x2'x1' sump), this what I did:

Premixed 2 barrels of sw.
Placed two smaller tanks (20g & 25g) on the floor near my tanks.
Siphoned old tank water into the two holding tanks.
Shifted corals, live rock and fish (in that order) from existing tanks into holding tanks.
Plugged in heaters and MJ1200 powerheads for flow.
Completely drained both tanks.
Scooped out sand into buckets for washing.
Shifted out old tanks & RSM stand.
Moved into place new tanks & new 30" stand.
Plumbed tanks together and glued/siliconed piping in place.
Hooked up new return pump (Jebao DC6000)
Tested water tightness by adding water down the overflows.
Filled sump and turned on return pump to test those pipes.
Retightened one fitting.
Checked temp and parameters of mixed saltwater in barrels and started pumping into sump, using return pump to add water into display cubes.
Filled up displays three quarters of the way, emptying barrels.
Refill one barrel, add salt, PRIME, pump and heater for final top-up.
Thoroughly washed old sand with hose outside at 3-4 in the morning (don't recommend this timetable, but I'm OCD and can't stop once started).
Slowly add clean sand into both tanks.
Unplugged heaters and MJ1200s.
Carefully shift live rock from holding tanks into display tanks.
Aquascape till happy.
Shift corals into new tanks.
Catch out fish and add to tanks.
Leave skimmer off for 2 days (in case it goes nuts).
Finally go to sleep at 10:30am the next day after spending a few hours double checking everything.
Recheck everything when I wake up a few hours later.
Recheck everything constantly for first few days.

Lost ZERO fish.
Lost a couple of sps frags & one small sps colony.
Everything else (knock on wood) has come through the transfer in great shape.


I went from roughly 94g total tanks volume to 183g total water volume.

Lots of work but well worth it. I laid out those foam interlocking pads used for padding kids' playrooms all around the tanks that helped keep the place dry and gave us a more comfortable surface to lie on when doing the plumbing.
Have lots of spare towels around cause no matter how careful you are, some water will hit the floor.

Good luck. I know it would have been easier to do the switch over a couple of days but I'd rather get the job done in one go, than to prolong the process.

Anthony


BTW, I have used washed "old" sand for years without any issue. As long as you know the sand has never been treated with copper, meds. then I have found it safe to reuse.