Need ich advice

[S0K]

Hello all this is my first post lol

So about a week ago I bought two tangs: a yellow and a kole. They seemed so happy and healthy at the lfs so I didn't QT them (I know, shame on me) and just put them straight in my 125gal DT. They both seemed happy and problem-free and since day 1 eat everything I put in the tank (frozen Mysis, pellets, SeaVeggie flakes). They get along fairly well and often swim together although the yellow seems to have crowned himself "king of the tank". The only other fish in the tank are 1 ocellaris clown and 2 green chromis.
Anyways here is the problem: yesterday the kole had 2 spots on one of his pectoral fins. Today the spots have spread onto his body. None of the other fish have spots but I know "if one fish has ich they all have ich". My question is do I need to do anything about it? Thing is I don't think I will be able to catch the kole to treat it in a separate tank due to the rockwork and can't medicate my DT because I have inverts.
Here is my "plan" please tell me what you think of it (don't hold back)... I'm thinking so long as he is still eating and behaving normally I leave him in the DT and continue feeding him pellets/Mysis/SeaVeggie flakes soaked in Garlic Xtreme. My hope is that as he gets settled into the tank his immune system will grow more resilient so next time the ich rises from the substrate he won't be as prone to become a host. Does that make sense? I also thought after these first spots fall off I could vacuum the substrate as a means of reduction of the parasite... HOWEVER if the spots do not reduce and/or start to affect his breathing will that kill him?

Sorry for the long post just wanted to include all the details.

[IanWR]

I think at this point your options are either resign yourself to having ich in your DT and hoping your fish muddle through each time it manifests, or take out all fish to a QT and leave your DT fallow while the fish are treated in your QT. I'm not sure on the fallow time, I have heard 8, 10, and 12 weeks. I'm sure someone will give us the correct number. :)

[neoh]

He may be too far gone I'm afraid - and chances are likely, it will spread. I know this is tough to swallow, but you need to get him out of there. You can drain all your water to catch 'em, or get a trap - but he needs to get out. I had something similar that wiped out all the fish. I managed to get them into quarantine and did hyposalinity treatment for 2 months until no visible spots were seen, then put them back in. The only fish that was not effected was my scooter dragonet.

One of the reasons why fish seem happy and healthy at a LFS, then come home with ich - is they are under copper treatment during the shipping process from wherever they receive the fish. Once they are out of their copper environment, the parasite manifests. Always quarantine! I unfortunately learned the hard way.

[Madreefer]

I see nothing wrong at all with your original plan. Minus the siphoning of the sand. That won't do anything for Ick. Keep your hands outta the tank, it's just added stress. I'm a huge supporter on using garlic and it has never failed me yet. I've been following a thread on another site and guys have been having success with using powdered ginger. Haven't tried it, cuz well trust me, garlic works. I wouldn't steer you wrong and I speak from experience. Good luck.

[mark]

Had some ick 6-7 years ago and really didn't do anything other than kept everyone well fed and stress free (didn't try to catch to put in QT etc). Cleared up on it's own and haven't seen since. Didn't do garlic but read it helps.

[intarsiabox]

If the fish are healthy ich typically isn't a problem. Stick with the garlic soaked food, don't change things around in the tank and keep water parameters in check. I like to add garlic and selcon to my food even though I don't have any ich issues just to keep everyone happy.

[halwake]

Had some ick 6-7 years ago and really didn't do anything other than kept everyone well fed and stress free (didn't try to catch to put in QT etc). Cleared up on it's own and haven't seen since. Didn't do garlic but read it helps.

Have to agree, same thing happened with my tank quite some time ago. Fish had a few specks and eventually cleared up on its own. No fish was ever severely infested or appeared stressed. Make sure everyone is eating good and keep water quality good. I would not add anything else to your tank until it is 100% gone for some time, and QT new arrivals. Did have a couple cleaner shrimp in the tank and the fish that was showing signs would visit them here and there then eventually not need to. I have had it happen some time before this and I panicked, pulled everyone out into a QT to treat and ended up losing a bunch of livestock. If its not to bad and they are not stressed, and are eating I would wait and let it run its course assuming its ich. Velvet you may have to pull them out and treat, infects fish more quickly and is usually much more serious.

Just my 2 cents based on past experience.

[S0K]

Thank you all for taking the time to read and reply to my post :)

I think since the kole is eating and behaving normally I will leave him in the DT for now and continue feeding with garlic. If he gets worse however I will move him to a QT and if I see it drastically spreading to my other fish then I will consider moving all the fish to QT's for treatment and leave my DT fallow for 12 weeks. I really hope the latter won't be necessary...

Mark and halwake, you both said you had ich in your tanks before but it eventually subsided on its own. Does that mean it died off completely? Or the fish are just co-existing with it? I think I'm going to pick up a couple of cleaner shrimp this week and then I will not be adding any more livestock to the DT for a good 2-3 months after the last white dot is gone.

[gregzz4]

I'm a little leary to jump in here with all the talk about leaving fish in the DT and using garlic and such, but here goes ...

First off, Tangs are one of the most susceptible fish to marine ich, so no surprise you have it

I'm a proponent of both a QT regime, and a hyposalinity regime for cases of MI

I agree with the idea of leaving the fish alone so as to not stress them anymore than they already are, and keep them fat and healthy to fight off infections, but MI can apparently cycle up to (if I remember correctly) 11 times before it dies out (or is that 11 months ? ...)
In either case, it's a long time to go without adding anything new to your tank if you want to be MI-free
If you want to rid yourself of it, go fallow (read below)

Healthy fish can fight off most diseases, just as you and I do, but the simplest things can kill very easily
MI can attack the gills just as easily as the outer visible parts, so watch out for heavy breathing issues

On the flip side to your guys having it, many cases of people losing their fish to 'MI' have in fact been mis-diagnosed and were actually Velvet. It kills, and fast
So some of the horror stories we've read may not in fact be about MI at all
And there are lots of reefers (even here on Canreef) who actively have MI in their tanks and live with it

I've had fish in QT with MI (bad, bad coverage all over) and it's never killed anything I've owned, but that's during a hypo treatment so the effects of the low SG may come into play under heavily infested conditions
I can't say I've ever had any experience with long-term exposure in a DT as I've never allowed it in

So, with that said, it's up to you what to do next

You can either live with it now that you have it, or remove them to a QT for 9+ weeks (11 is better) while you leave your DT fallow and wait for the MI to die off
Keep the inverts in the DT and 'ghost feed' the tank to keep them alive
Then in the future use your QT everytime you buy new critters

Either way, I'm still gonna say it ...
Get a QT going and use it for new critters :wink:

Good luck, and Happy New Year !

[gregzz4]

I think I'm going to pick up a couple of cleaner shrimp this week and then I will not be adding any more livestock to the DT for a good 2-3 months after the last white dot is gone.
The cleaners may help with the exterior bits but nothing in the gills

2-3 months is not going to make a difference if the web info is correct
I know I haven't given you a chance to read my post yet, but it can take up to 11 cycles (months ?) for MI to die out

[halwake]

Thank you all for taking the time to read and reply to my post :)

I think since the kole is eating and behaving normally I will leave him in the DT for now and continue feeding with garlic. If he gets worse however I will move him to a QT and if I see it drastically spreading to my other fish then I will consider moving all the fish to QT's for treatment and leave my DT fallow for 12 weeks. I really hope the latter won't be necessary...

Mark and halwake, you both said you had ich in your tanks before but it eventually subsided on its own. Does that mean it died off completely? Or the fish are just co-existing with it? I think I'm going to pick up a couple of cleaner shrimp this week and then I will not be adding any more livestock to the DT for a good 2-3 months after the last white dot is gone.

No fish show any signs of ich, no fish visit the cleaner shrimp ever. When I got ich the infected fish would go near the shrimp and it would try to climb onto the fish to clean it. It seemed like each fish would get a few specks then clear up. I imagine I may still have it in my system but I never see any signs at all. I did more damage trying to pull everyone out into a qt to treat then ich did. Get a cleaner shrimp, try the garlic in the food and give it some time. I bet it clears up on its own. Just make sure they are eating, don't appear distressed, and its not getting way worse. Again just my experience. If they start having trouble and you feel you should treat, I have had best luck with hypo salinity treatment. Again, I'm sure you will be fine, don't panic.

[mark]

Mark and halwake, you both said you had ich in your tanks before but it eventually subsided on its own. Does that mean it died off completely? Or the fish are just co-existing with it? I think I'm going to pick up a couple of cleaner shrimp this week and then I will not be adding any more livestock to the DT for a good 2-3 months after the last white dot is gone.

Wasn't like a huge outbreak, only a couple of spots on the Purple and Regal tangs (which cleared after a few days), but not one white dot since.

[S0K]

The cleaners may help with the exterior bits but nothing in the gills

2-3 months is not going to make a difference if the web info is correct
I know I haven't given you a chance to read my post yet, but it can take up to 11 cycles (months ?) for MI to die out

I looked into this online and looks like you're right - it's 11 months and yeah like you said that's only if I add nothing new during that time. I have 5 fish right now and I'm planning on adding 3-4 more before I'm "fully stocked" and that's a long time to wait!
Although it seems that fish can co-exist with the parasite I'm assuming it's probably annoying for them to deal with. Also I'm assuming every time I add a new fish even after QT the dots will reappear since the ich is living in the DT. I think I may just go the fallow path and invest the time now and instead of dealing with the heartache later lol.
I have another question now... instead of moving the fish to a QT (which I would have to buy because I only have 5 and 10 gal spare tanks) could I move the inverts (snails, shrimp, urchin) to my 29gal fowlr and just do hyposalinity on the DT?

On a side note the kole is still looking good and the dots have reduced. I'm sure it's ich and not velvet :)

[gregzz4]

If the kole only has dots, and doesn't look like it's been rolled in flour, then I'm pretty sure you're safe to assume it's not velvet

Sure you could do hypo in the DT with the inverts removed, but I'd recommend you remove the LR too, and you'll have to leave the LR fallow for I think 9 weeks
If you leave the LR in the DT during hypo you'll probably lose all the pods and such

[S0K]

Got it. I'm going to start the hypo tomorrow. Thanks everyone

[gregzz4]

Don't know if you caught it in any of the hypo stuff you've read, but there's a rumour that running 1.009 doesn't always kill it all
Therefore I run mine @ 1.008 and it's always served me well

[S0K]

Don't know if you caught it in any of the hypo stuff you've read, but there's a rumour that running 1.009 doesn't always kill it all
Therefore I run mine @ 1.008 and it's always served me well

No I hadn't heard that, thanks for the tip!