Phosphate Testing

[craigwmiller]

I just picked up an ELOS PO4 test kit, and it's reading zero, like super zero, no color change at all (and the color compare card shows that zero should be somewhat colored). Then I tested with TAP water, and again, crystal clear.

Does anyone else use the ELOS PO4 kit, and do you ever get crystal-clear results?

...Inside the new box/bag there was some (maybe a handful of drops) leakage during shipment/handling/etc which had mixed with something and was bright blue - not sure this would affect the contents of either bottle, more likely an air pressure change thing...


Is my new test kit bad, from the no color change at all? (I mainly worry since the printed card shows at least some color to be expected)


I'm concerned over PO4 right now since earlier today (before I went out to buy another kit) my Hanna meter gave me 0.15 and then 0.00 with 2 reagents (same lot #, but different reagent packages). And I'm not sure I can trust either, but moreover the 0 value really bugs me. There's always something when I test... 0.02, 0.03, something.

[Craigdillman]

I have the elos test kit and It's by far the best phosphate kit out there minus the Hanna checkers digital read out ( come on Santa)

Never had any issues

Make sure to look down the tube with lid off the color is VERY faint tint of blue it doesn't change like a nitrate test does

[Reef Pilot]

With the Hanna, there are a few things you have to be careful with to ensure that you get consistent and accurate test results. But sure beats the heck out of all the color test kits. I used to think I had low phosphates, until I got the Hanna.

[Magickiwi]

I went through three Hanna colorimeter kits and found that I would get three different results with them no matter how careful and consistent my testing methods are. Now I use their results as a guideline vs an actual number. I think their testing method is pretty flawed so I'm just holding on until a more reliable test comes out. The chemical reaction they are using as the base may be spot on but it's not reliable.

[The Guy]

With the Hanna, there are a few things you have to be careful with to ensure that you get consistent and accurate test results. But sure beats the heck out of all the color test kits. I used to think I had low phosphates, until I got the Hanna.
Me too, I was shocked :doh:

[craigwmiller]

Well after much more prep and vial cleaning and careful testing, I think I have 0.00 phosphate, which is good I suppose.

I mainly got all in a panic since I added some base rock (15 lbs) about 6 weeks ago and some large dry rock (20 lbs) shelves about 2 months ago (the shelves at least cycled in a rubbermaid for a while) -- but on last test ~ 3 weeks ago it was around 0.08-ish, so dropping to 0 is odd, but 2 hanna tests, and 2 elos tests show nadda

...so I suppose I can trust the SPS:



https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53801997/reef210/2013-12-20%2015.49.12.jpg

[Cal_stir]

I have elos po4, it always reads 0, i have a hanna phosphorous ulr also and it read 32ppb = 0.098 ppm, I know for a fact that I don't have 0 po4 so I go by the hanna, I increased my gfo and my po4 has dropped to 11 ppb = 0.034ppm so I am inclined to believe the hanna.

[Craigdillman]

I think general consensus is you want to keep it below 0.04ppm.Ive read some threads on RC showing making it absolute zero for too long had some decreased growth effects on certain Acro's after a few months. Ill look for the link


Edit found the link
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1168053

[Craigdillman]

Hope I get a hanna checker for x-mas lol come on santa

[Cal_stir]

I think general consensus is you want to keep it below 0.04ppm.Ive read some threads on RC showing making it absolute zero for too long had some decreased growth effects on certain Acro's after a few months. Ill look for the link


Edit found the link
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11680530.03 seems to be ideal as po4 is essential for life in plants, animals and bacteria.

[Cal_stir]

Hope I get a hanna checker for x-mas lol come on santamake sure santa gets you the phosphorous ulr with extra reagents.

[iceman86]

I also just got the same elos kit and the color is clear too. Not sure if its a bad kit or what. I only have an api to compare it to and that reads zero but we know that kit sucks.

[craigwmiller]

I also just got the same elos kit and the color is clear too. Not sure if its a bad kit or what. I only have an api to compare it to and that reads zero but we know that kit sucks.

Where did you buy your kit?

[iceman86]

Where did you buy your kit?

J&l I wonder if its a bad batch

[craigwmiller]

Hmm, I bought mine from Marine Aquaria... I'll look at the batch number when I get home and report back.

[iceman86]

My batch numbers are

Reagent a- 12604217
Reagent b- 12604218

Exp Nov 2014

[Craigdillman]

You 100% sure it clear when you look down from the top with the lid off it had a faint blue ting


Also Santa got me a what I wanted and reagents, that Santa ...

[iceman86]

Im 100% sure. I even got my wife to look and she agrees it looks like clear water.

[Craigdillman]

Hrm weird not sure what to say

[Magickiwi]

Im 100% sure. I even got my wife to look and she agrees it looks like clear water.

I'm not sure why phosphate testing has to be so problematic for aquarium enthusiasts. None of the test kits or colorimeters seem to test reliably. Especially the phosphate ones.

The only one I've seen with repeatable results has been the phosphorus checker.

[Craigdillman]

Yea that's why I'm going to the Hanna low range checker I was sick as tired of guessing if this tint of blue was a bit bluer then That tint of blue

[craigwmiller]

My Reagent lot #'s are:
A: 10305114
B: 10305115


I have the Hanna meter also, and generally love it, except as noted earlier, I got 2 readings of 0.13 and 0.00 from the same lot #, which lead me to pickup the Elos, and it shows fully colorless :/

The procedure with the Hanna is not ideal...

I'm sure more people are with me in that I'm very willing to pay more for a more precise (foolproof), and SIMPLE, test for some of these things. Phosphate and Alk specifically... I would love a simple test (probe or even titration), that was solid, I'm good for a recurring $100/year-ish or even a higher one-time rig!

[Craigdillman]

Too bad they don't make a machine thats small you put a sample in a it spits out cal mag alk phos and nitrate lol

[craigwmiller]

Too bad they don't make a machine thats small you put a sample in a it spits out cal mag alk phos and nitrate lol

Actually I think they do, but I'm not rich enough yet :D

http://thriveaquatics.com/products/thrive-water-lab.html
http://reefbuilders.com/2013/02/20/thrive-water-lab/

:D

[Craigdillman]

That thing is pretty cool

[iceman86]

So I pull out the old api kit and test my phophates and it reads 2. Yes not .2 but 2 so I immedietly switched out my phosphate media. No wonder I had a cyano break out and I thought it was because I was dosing vodka to get my nitrates down. Weird part is I never got any type of nuisance algae except cyano and yellow corals turned green.

Conclusion: bad elos test kit

Thanks for everyones help

[allie_san]

With the Hanna, there are a few things you have to be careful with to ensure that you get consistent and accurate test results. But sure beats the heck out of all the color test kits. I used to think I had low phosphates, until I got the Hanna.

What things are those? I'm wondering if my test results are skewed now.

[Magickiwi]

What things are those? I'm wondering if my test results are skewed now.

First, get a live chicken. It has to be live and if you can get one with mostly white and red feathers. If it has black feathers the test won't work.

Next wave the chicken in counter-clockwise circles around your tester. For the love of God DON'T go clockwise, that's big trouble.

After you've done six complete rotations and 1 half rotation raise the chicken to the East. It has to be the East because the West is for Alk testing.

Next put on a pair of non-latex powder-free rainforest friendly examination gloves, blue if you can find them.

After you have the gloves on put the chicken in a brown burlap bag and place it in the corner of the room furthest away from your sump.

Keep in mind this only works if you have more yellow fish than orange or blue. For blue fish the process is totally different.

Once the bagged chicken is in the corner furthest from your sump you take the checker and spill some water in the middle of the pentagram on the floor. I forgot to mention the pentagram on the floor, draw it in orange or white chalk, white is a little easier to find and it tastes better in step 27.

It goes on from here...

[AdamsB]

First, get a live chicken. It has to be live and if you can get one with mostly white and red feathers. If it has black feathers the test won't work.



Next wave the chicken in counter-clockwise circles around your tester. For the love of God DON'T go clockwise, that's big trouble.



After you've done six complete rotations and 1 half rotation raise the chicken to the East. It has to be the East because the West is for Alk testing.



Next put on a pair of non-latex powder-free rainforest friendly examination gloves, blue if you can find them.



After you have the gloves on put the chicken in a brown burlap bag and place it in the corner of the room furthest away from your sump.



Keep in mind this only works if you have more yellow fish than orange or blue. For blue fish the process is totally different.



Once the bagged chicken is in the corner furthest from your sump you take the checker and spill some water in the middle of the pentagram on the floor. I forgot to mention the pentagram on the floor, draw it in orange or white chalk, white is a little easier to find and it tastes better in step 27.



It goes on from here...


Ok I'm half way done and satin is asking for my first born clownfish, what's next?

[Reef Pilot]

What things are those? I'm wondering if my test results are skewed now.

First, before you start, have your reagent pack cut, and opened/shaped ready to pour the powder into the vial. It is very important that you get all the powder into the vial really quick without spilling any.

Be sure the vial is always clean, inside and out.

After the C2 comes on, note the exact time in seconds and pour the reagent into the vial, and swirl for almost the full 3 min. It is very important that all the powder is dissolved and no micro bubbles. Then insert, close, and hold the button until the 3 min timer shows on the display. If you just press and release, you will get a reading but it will not be accurate. After the 3 min counts down, you will get your reading.

My Hanna checker readings are consistently accurate, and usually don't vary more than .01 when I have done more than one test.

Before when I was using the color test kits, they would read zero while the Hanna would read .6 and higher. It is very hard to distinguish white, and a slight off white, and they always read too low.

I use the Low Range Hanna Phosphate Checker, model HI 713 and reagents are HI 713-25.

[Magickiwi]

Then you got the one out of millions. Google search shows hundreds oh threads on the phosphate checkers.

[Reef Pilot]

Then you got the one out of millions. Google search shows hundreds oh threads on the phosphate checkers.
Well, if you were local, I would invite you over and show how I do it, and test yours against mine. I did that with another local canreefer, who was not sure whether his was reading correctly. But once shown my methods, his too, had the same consistent readings.

It is easy to screw up, so not surprised that some people may have some trouble with it (and I have done it, too). But I also know that many are happy with it, so obviously they know how to use it properly.

[wreck]

Well, if you were local, I would invite you over and show how I do it, and test yours against mine. I did that with another local canreefer, who was not sure whether his was reading correctly. But once shown my methods, his too, had the same consistent readings.

It is easy to screw up, so not surprised that some people may have some trouble with it (and I have done it, too). But I also know that many are happy with it, so obviously they know how to use it properly.

You coukd always make a how to video :d

[Reef Pilot]

You coukd always make a how to video :d
Well, I've already described it, which should work for most people. Not really all that difficult....

But if you want videos, BRS has made a couple. First one is about phosphates in general and how to test for them. The second one is about choosing the right test kit, and shows how to use them. The Hanna phosphate checker part is near the end of that one. The only diff with my method is that I swirl for close to 3 min, not 30 sec to be sure all the powder gets dissolved.
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/video/view/controlling-phosphate/

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/video/view/choosing-the-best-aquarium-test-kit/

[allie_san]

First, before you start, have your reagent pack cut, and opened/shaped ready to pour the powder into the vial. It is very important that you get all the powder into the vial really quick without spilling any.

Be sure the vial is always clean, inside and out.

After the C2 comes on, note the exact time in seconds and pour the reagent into the vial, and swirl for almost the full 3 min. It is very important that all the powder is dissolved and no micro bubbles. Then insert, close, and hold the button until the 3 min timer shows on the display. If you just press and release, you will get a reading but it will not be accurate. After the 3 min counts down, you will get your reading.

My Hanna checker readings are consistently accurate, and usually don't vary more than .01 when I have done more than one test.

Before when I was using the color test kits, they would read zero while the Hanna would read .6 and higher. It is very hard to distinguish white, and a slight off white, and they always read too low.

I use the Low Range Hanna Phosphate Checker, model HI 713 and reagents are HI 713-25.

Are you using RO water to rinse out the vials? I've been just rinsing them under the tap..which seems pretty stupid in retrospect now...

I've been emptying my packets over a piece of paper now, seems easier than trying to get it all out of the little packet into the little vial without spilling any.

[wreck]

Well, I've already described it, which should work for most people. Not really all that difficult....

But if you want videos, BRS has made a couple. First one is about phosphates in general and how to test for them. The second one is about choosing the right test kit, and shows how to use them. The Hanna phosphate checker part is near the end of that one. The only diff with my method is that I swirl for close to 3 min, not 30 sec to be sure all the powder gets dissolved.
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/video/view/controlling-phosphate/

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/video/view/choosing-the-best-aquarium-test-kit/

Very true ty for the links!

[Reef Pilot]

Are you using RO water to rinse out the vials? I've been just rinsing them under the tap..which seems pretty stupid in retrospect now...

I've been emptying my packets over a piece of paper now, seems easier than trying to get it all out of the little packet into the little vial without spilling any.
Yes, I rinse in RO water after every use. And after filling with water and then powder I also rub the outside of the vial with a towel to be sure it is clean and no finger prints before inserting into the checker.

I cut the packets and make a crease in them, to funnel the powder. I also use the scissors tips to open up the ends inside to be sure no powder stays trapped in there. Then I just hold the vial at a 45 degree angle (easy to over spill powder if held straight up) and tap in the powder from the funnel crease in the packet.

[asylumdown]

First, before you start, have your reagent pack cut, and opened/shaped ready to pour the powder into the vial. It is very important that you get all the powder into the vial really quick without spilling any.

Be sure the vial is always clean, inside and out.

After the C2 comes on, note the exact time in seconds and pour the reagent into the vial, and swirl for almost the full 3 min. It is very important that all the powder is dissolved and no micro bubbles. Then insert, close, and hold the button until the 3 min timer shows on the display. If you just press and release, you will get a reading but it will not be accurate. After the 3 min counts down, you will get your reading.

My Hanna checker readings are consistently accurate, and usually don't vary more than .01 when I have done more than one test.

Before when I was using the color test kits, they would read zero while the Hanna would read .6 and higher. It is very hard to distinguish white, and a slight off white, and they always read too low.

I use the Low Range Hanna Phosphate Checker, model HI 713 and reagents are HI 713-25.

waaaaait, you're supposed to hold the button down? Oh my I haven't done that once. My readings have probably been totally wrong.

I do notice how much of a difference a few micro bubbles can make, the difference between 0.05 and 0.00.

One of the things I've done to make the readings easier is to use both vials included in the kit, fill both with tank water, then only put the reagent in one. I use the straight water one as the C1 blank. I find that the powder that comes with the phosphate kit dissolves so slowly that by the time it' completely dissolved and the micro bubbles are well and truly gone that the checker has turned itself off by the time I'm ready to go with C2 half the time. Am I making it less accurate that way?

[Reef Pilot]

waaaaait, you're supposed to hold the button down? Oh my I haven't done that once. My readings have probably been totally wrong.

I do notice how much of a difference a few micro bubbles can make, the difference between 0.05 and 0.00.

One of the things I've done to make the readings easier is to use both vials included in the kit, fill both with tank water, then only put the reagent in one. I use the straight water one as the C1 blank. I find that the powder that comes with the phosphate kit dissolves so slowly that by the time it' completely dissolved and the micro bubbles are well and truly gone that the checker has turned itself off by the time I'm ready to go with C2 half the time. Am I making it less accurate that way?

Yup, not holding down after C2 is a common mistake. I just use one vial, but I make sure I am ready with the powder, so I don't waste any time. You have 3 min to do your swirling, and that is enough for me to completely dissolve it. I've been told that using 2 vials is not as accurate, as there might be slight imperfections between the vials. Don't know if that is true, though. I slow down my swirling the last 15 seconds to be sure there are no bubbles.

[asylumdown]

huh, wow! I had no idea that thing had a timer on it.

Well, it looks like I need the low range checker. 0.00