pH dropping -hello winter

[Treebeard]

Since the weather turned for hell here a few days ago, and my windows are closed most of the time my pH has been hanging 7.7-7.9. I realize that this likely a seasonal issue and I never was even aware of it until now, but thanks to my Apex, now I know. I am wondering if I should be concerned about it and doing something to raise it?

[Magickiwi]

I use Seachem reef buffer to manage my pH levels. If I drop below 8 I will adjust up but normally I let it swing between 8.1-8.3.

I would say yes compensate slowly but I am relatively new to marine tanks.

[Seriak]

Yeah I am interested in this as well.

You can run the air intake from your skimmer outside or use soda lime to absorb excess CO2, I usually don't do anything.

[Treebeard]

Yeah I am interested in this as well.

..... I usually don't do anything.

That's what the lazy part of me (98%) was leaning towards. Either that or go purchase a few hundred dollars worth of high tech gadgetry to solve a problem that probably doesn't really exist.

[Delphinus]

FWIW, the 9 months of winter we get around here is usually when my tank does its best, despite that I probably have the windows open much less of the time.

My guess is as long as you have good ventilation overall, it's probably not a huge concern.

[Aquattro]

I would disconnect the probe for the winter, problem solved.

[Delphinus]

pH is a little like describing a musical concert by telling you which was the average note played by all the instruments all evening.

[Magickiwi]

So what you guys are saying is that it is useless to monitor or adjust for pH values?

[Aquattro]

So what you guys are saying is that it is useless to monitor or adjust for pH values?

Pretty much. The only time I would test is if I had a problem that I couldn't otherwise figure out. My Apex pH probe is still brand new in the box.

[Madreefer]

Bahhhh ph is over rated and for fear mongers. Don't fiddle. In a calcium reactor that's a different story

[Aquattro]

Bahhhh ph is over rated and for fear mongers. Don't fiddle. In a calcium reactor that's a different story

I don't even play with it in my reactor :)

[eli@fijireefrock.com]

I agree with most replies PH...what is that :biggrin: been a long and I mean a long time since I dipped in for PH...

[xenon]

Hook up a CO2 scrubber to your skimmer air intake and voila! problem solved.

It would be nice if we had scientific results on what a raised PH would do for our corals but we just don't know.

[asylumdown]

According to my Apex, the pH in my tank hovers between 2.4 and 2.8. Apparently the absence of a probe is quite acidic...

The one thing I would mention about reef buffer is to be careful about how you interpret your alkalinity readings after you use it. Reef buffer contains a significant amount of borate, which contributes to total alkalinity. If your'e using a single reagent titration test kit for carbonate (i.e., you add a single coloured reagent directly to your water until there is a colour change) to measure your dKH, you're measuring total alkalinity.

I ran in to a problem when I was a newb where I was adding too much reef buffer and not enough carbonate/bicarbonate. My dKH was consistently reading in the 8-9 range, but then all the tips of my corals started burning, then whole colonies started practically self immolating. I bought the Seachem test kit that allows you to test for both borate and total alkalinity and discovered that my carbonate alkalinity as measured in dKH was down around 4.5 or something ridiculous.

[banditpowdercoat]

Ya Mine has always been just below 8. Now last couple months its creeped to just above 8. No one seems to notice but me

[Reef Pilot]

According to my Apex, the pH in my tank hovers between 2.4 and 2.8. Apparently the absence of a probe is quite acidic...

The one thing I would mention about reef buffer is to be careful about how you interpret your alkalinity readings after you use it. Reef buffer contains a significant amount of borate, which contributes to total alkalinity. If your'e using a single reagent titration test kit for carbonate (i.e., you add a single coloured reagent directly to your water until there is a colour change) to measure your dKH, you're measuring total alkalinity.

I ran in to a problem when I was a newb where I was adding too much reef buffer and not enough carbonate/bicarbonate. My dKH was consistently reading in the 8-9 range, but then all the tips of my corals started burning, then whole colonies started practically self immolating. I bought the Seachem test kit that allows you to test for both borate and total alkalinity and discovered that my carbonate alkalinity as measured in dKH was down around 4.5 or something ridiculous.

Hmmm, really?? I dose Seachem Reef Buffer (and have for a couple years) and keep my dKH around 8 or 9 (API, which is a single reagent test). I have in the past also tested with Elos or Salifert (can't remember which one), but the results were basically the same (just a finer granularity), so I went back to the API.

I have a lot of SPS in my tank and so far no problems. But now you have me worried. I may have to go out and buy another KH test kit. Is Seachem the one you recommend?

And I also have not tested pH for a year or more.

[asylumdown]

Hmmm, really?? I dose Seachem Reef Buffer (and have for a couple years) and keep my dKH around 8 or 9 (API, which is a single reagent test). I have in the past also tested with Elos or Salifert (can't remember which one), but the results were basically the same (just a finer granularity), so I went back to the API.

I have a lot of SPS in my tank and so far no problems. But now you have me worried. I may have to go out and buy another KH test kit. Is Seachem the one you recommend?

And I also have not tested pH for a year or more.

It's their Reef Status Magnesium test kit, comes in an obnoxiously large white plastic case with a red label. In addition to mag, that test kit does total alk and borate alk. You subtract borate alk from total alk to get your carbonate alk.

It's the only test kit that I've seen that has reagents to test for borate alk, all the other kits you just mentioned test for total alk only, so it's good that they agree. I'm just guessing, but I bet they make it specifically because of their reef buffer product.

Keep in mind that this was in... 2008 I think, so it's possible that reef buffer's formula has been changed and the ratio of borate to carbonate is different now. I was also a serious idiot back then and had no idea what I was doing, as referenced by the fact that I managed to get in to a situation where it was that out of whack. That was the same year I destroyed all of my pumps in a runaway precipitation reaction because I didn't know the first thing about reef chemistry. Looking back at pictures of that tank makes me cringe now.

I'd just be aware of it. Obviously if you've been doing what you're doing for that long things are working, but I'd still want to know how that total alk number broke down.

[asylumdown]

hmmmm, i might be out to lunch, API might test for carbonate alkalinity directly. I haven't used it in years, what colour is the reagent when it comes out of the bottle?

[Reef Pilot]

hmmmm, i might be out to lunch, API might test for carbonate alkalinity directly. I haven't used it in years, what colour is the reagent when it comes out of the bottle?
It is pink first, and then turns purple/blue.

[asylumdown]

hmmm, then nope it's still measuring total alk, even though the box says it's measuring KH, which is not the same thing and is usually expressed in different units (meq/L). I can't figure out what indicator they're using, but what's in your bottle is basically just an acid and an indicator that changes colour once all the buffering capacity has been consumed and the solution suddenly turns acidic. Might be litmus.

I just searched reef central and found some posts from Randy Holmes where he found that the borate alkalinity test from sachem wasn't all that accurate so he recommends not doing it. If you've been doing what you're doing for two years I'd say you're probably fine. My case was likely an extra special case of being 'extra special'.

[gregzz4]

I would disconnect the probe for the winter, problem solved.

pH is a little like describing a musical concert by telling you which was the average note played by all the instruments all evening.

I'm of the same thoughts
But if you're still concerned about it, it was mentioned to run your skimmer intake outside
I've mine plumbed through a window and added a filter on the outside to keep bugs from plugging it up (happened this summer and it overflowed :surprise:)
You can see my filter here (http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=840672&postcount=771) 2nd pic
It's just a breather filter for a carbureted V8

[Treebeard]

Not so sure that sucking in -30 air into my skimmer would work so good. Not to mention my sump is in a room in my basement with no windows and I am reluctant to start punching holes in the concrete for the skimmer. Unplugging the pH probe for the winter may be the way to go. :neutral:

I'm of the same thoughts
But if you're still concerned about it, it was mentioned to run your skimmer intake outside
I've mine plumbed through a window and added a filter on the outside to keep bugs from plugging it up (happened this summer and it overflowed :surprise:)
You can see my filter here (http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=840672&postcount=771) 2nd pic
It's just a breather filter for a carbureted V8

[Reef Pilot]

It is pink first, and then turns purple/blue.
Whoops, I was thinking of my Ca test kit (2 part), which is also API.

The API KH test starts off blue, and then turns green/yellow and uses only 1 reagent.

[kien]

Since the weather turned for hell here a few days ago, and my windows are closed most of the time my pH has been hanging 7.7-7.9. I realize that this likely a seasonal issue and I never was even aware of it until now, but thanks to my Apex, now I know. I am wondering if I should be concerned about it and doing something to raise it?

This is where my pH is at these days too (as displayed on my controller). Definitely a seasonal thing. I personally don't pay any attention to my pH and have never done anything to correct it. I don't think it needs correcting. I like Brad's suggestion about unplugging the probe. Unless you're using one in a calcium reactor they are a bit of a waste of money really.

[tobysmurf]

I generally treat pH as an entertainment value, and something to ignore unless something looks really wrong in the tank. Mine drops down about .2 in the winter. As long as your corals are healthy, I'd recommend ignoring it and just enjoy the tank instead of the Apex!

[Magickiwi]

As a relative newb I am going to continue to monitor my pH levels as a possible early indicator of something going horribly wrong. A pH probe and the occasional addition of buffer isn't going to kill me.

Once I become an expert like others here I'll know when I can ignore it :)

[mseepman]

I have had some terrible PH issues in the last few months. I can't get it to go up. I'm dosing almost 5liters of saturated kalk per day. My Alk was crazy low before and now appears to be closer to normal, but I can't get PH up. Best it gets when lights are on full is 8.05 on my APEX. I've got two probes in different locations as a backup check. It is an issue for me as having the PH and Alk so low resulted in some cyano issues. Still trying to beat that too. I also have an HRV feeding fresh air only 10 feet from the tank. Not sure where else to go with it.

[kien]

I have had some terrible PH issues in the last few months. I can't get it to go up. I'm dosing almost 5liters of saturated kalk per day. My Alk was crazy low before and now appears to be closer to normal, but I can't get PH up. Best it gets when lights are on full is 8.05 on my APEX. I've got two probes in different locations as a backup check. It is an issue for me as having the PH and Alk so low resulted in some cyano issues. Still trying to beat that too. I also have an HRV feeding fresh air only 10 feet from the tank. Not sure where else to go with it.

That's interesting, I didn't know that pH and Alk had an affect on cyano. I'll have to go read up on that. Myself, have had cyano in my tank during the summer with High pH, 8.1 and above, as well as in the winter with low pH, below 8.0.

[mseepman]

Alk seems to be the culprit that more people are comfortable associating with Cyano...though many threads have said raising PH has helped them rid cyano from tank.

[Reef Pilot]

MB7 is what keeps my tank clear of cyano. Learned that a couple years ago, and have not had a problem since.

[kien]

currently I am trying to culture Designer Cyano. I'll keep y'all posted on how that goes.

[Seriak]

currently I am trying to culture Designer Cyano. I'll keep y'all posted on how that goes.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-hRyM83oc18U/UnrG-aYNDZI/AAAAAAAAC2M/byrbkBwHkPg/s400/shut-up-and-take-my-money_f489x307_1336859805.jpg

[Reef Pilot]

currently I am trying to culture Designer Cyano. I'll keep y'all posted on how that goes.
Haha,.. just call it Over the Rainbow something, and you'll make a fortune...

[asylumdown]

currently I am trying to culture Designer Cyano. I'll keep y'all posted on how that goes.

ooooooo! me too. I'm trying to select for the varieties that latch on to tube worm shells and fill up with bubbles making them float. They look just like little red weather balloons.

I'll call it "surprise party"

[kien]

I'll call it "surprise party"

Ooo, I like that! I'm going to call mine, "RED OCTOBER" so that people don't confuse it with "Surprise Party".