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DAVE
11-04-2013, 12:19 PM
So I am hearing a lot of different information regarding the sale and operation of these pumps, particularly the WP-25/WP-40.

Are these pumps certified for use in Canada? If something should happen to cause a fire would you insurance cover the damages? (say faulty power supply)???

monocus
11-04-2013, 04:25 PM
the box says its a low voltage system and to keep controllers away from water-other than that -nothing

DAVE
11-04-2013, 07:01 PM
My concerns are about the rumors of the electrical certifications not being legit.

craigwmiller
11-04-2013, 07:42 PM
Hmm, there are also 2 versions of the power supply. The original constant voltage supply, and the optional (which ships with new units - like the 2 WP-40's I have) variable voltage supply.

Do you know which one is being called out?

Also, do you have links/references to the potential problem reports?

xenon
11-04-2013, 07:43 PM
My concerns are about the rumors of the electrical certifications not being legit.

You will be hard pressed to find any pump on the market that has CSA certification.

nrosdal
11-04-2013, 07:51 PM
You will be hard pressed to find any pump on the market that has CSA certification.

What he said...

Also, as Canada corals went through with their beautiful set up with a not so intelligent inspector. You only need the ul and csa for hard wired applications of fixtures.

DAVE
11-04-2013, 08:08 PM
What he said...

Also, as Canada corals went through with their beautiful set up with a not so intelligent inspector. You only need the ul and csa for hard wired applications of fixtures.


I agree. But the certification on the Jebao which is valid in Canada is 'rumored' to be just writing on the pump without any actual certification process. i.e. they just put it on there to please the people, but in actuality it is not certified.

Since you sell these pumps can you confirm the certification process from the manufacturer in China?

DAVE
11-04-2013, 08:36 PM
Hmm, there are also 2 versions of the power supply. The original constant voltage supply, and the optional (which ships with new units - like the 2 WP-40's I have) variable voltage supply.

Do you know which one is being called out?

Also, do you have links/references to the potential problem reports?


Sorry I do not. Just something I have heard amongst hobbyists and vendors. I am hoping the ones selling the pumps can verify the markings are valid.

Just hoping to squash the rumors, as I do really like these pumps.

nrosdal
11-04-2013, 08:36 PM
If you just go to their website it says they have obtained more certs as in UL, CUL, ect. But on all products that i have of theirs they are just CE which is common for most products and manufacturers (even the bigger guys). I am sure that once they add the UL to the products i will be able to get documentation with them. I will request info on the certs and post here what i get back. But even with just the CE you are fine. Just don't cut off the plug and hard wire it in.

DAVE
11-04-2013, 08:38 PM
If you just go to their website it says they have obtained more certs as in UL, CUL, ect. But on all products that i have of theirs they are just CE which is common for most products and manufacturers (even the bigger guys). I am sure that once they add the UL to the products i will be able to get documentation with them. I will request info on the certs and post here what i get back. But even with just the CE you are fine. Just don't cut off the plug and hard wire it in.


That is AWESOME!

Can't wait to see what you find out. Thank you.

xenon
11-04-2013, 09:58 PM
From what I was told, CE certification means nothing and will not be accepted by the ESA.

uniboob
11-04-2013, 10:35 PM
From what I was told, CE certification means nothing and will not be accepted by the ESA.

This is what I have read and heard as well. CE is only a valid standard in Europe, and basically just means Chinese export.

Cal_stir
11-04-2013, 11:15 PM
I will double check tomorrow when I go to work, I will give my ESA guy a call and verify CE, I am pretty sure it is accepted.

Cal_stir
11-04-2013, 11:33 PM
The CE certification is irrelevant because it has the c UL us, provided it's not counterfit.

http://www.esasafe.com/assets/image/EsaSafe/electrical_products/Recognized%20Certification%20Marks%20-%20Oct%202013.png

DAVE
11-04-2013, 11:37 PM
....provided it's not counterfit.


Should they have documentation to prove the c UL us code?

Cal_stir
11-05-2013, 12:06 AM
The manufacturer of the power supply should have it, there is a place on the ESA website where you can see if it is listed.

AquaticFinatic
11-05-2013, 03:08 AM
I. Can't prove it but their claim to be ul etc is not true. Long story but it's counterfeit from what I was told. This is a big deal right now and ce means nothing here. Wp pumps are illegal across the country but Alberta and Quebec have less rules on this type of thing.

AquaticFinatic
11-05-2013, 03:11 AM
Forgot to mention from what I was told if your house burns down from this pump your insurance won't pay. I would love more clarification on this problem.

warriorcookie
11-05-2013, 03:37 AM
Forgot to mention from what I was told if your house burns down from this pump your insurance won't pay. I would love more clarification on this problem.

Told by whom?

My "wall wart" AC/DC adapter has the http://www.ul.com/global/digitalassets/images/content/corporate/aboutul/offeringsoverview/ulmarks/cuslisth.gif certification.
Unless this is a fake, it's recognized in Canada in every province as far as I know.(Source (http://www.ul.com/canada/eng/pages/aboutus/))

nrosdal
11-05-2013, 04:10 AM
I am waiting to hear back on anything other then the CE rating from Jebao. They are in no way illegal for anyone and if you are concerned with the csa stamp you should probably get rid of your wavelive/speedwave/diablo dc pumps as well.

I also have not seen ul or csa stamped on anything from them ever. So to say they are fraudulently doing so because they announced on their site to recently have gotten those certs (which may be on all or only some products they make) seems out of line unless you have something proving that.

Treebeard
11-05-2013, 04:29 AM
Forgot to mention from what I was told if your house burns down from this pump your insurance won't pay. I would love more clarification on this problem.

Unless your insurance agent told you this tidbit it's nothing more than fear mongering.

AdamsB
11-05-2013, 06:06 AM
Sounds like a rumour started by ecotech.

DAVE
11-05-2013, 11:49 AM
I am waiting to hear back on anything other then the CE rating from Jebao. They are in no way illegal for anyone and if you are concerned with the csa stamp you should probably get rid of your wavelive/speedwave/diablo dc pumps as well.

I also have not seen ul or csa stamped on anything from them ever. So to say they are fraudulently doing so because they announced on their site to recently have gotten those certs (which may be on all or only some products they make) seems out of line unless you have something proving that.


Nick, just relax.

You can't be that oblivious to the talks across the forms/facebook that the markings MAY have been counterfeit. You also can't be that naive to think a product out of China would fake such a marking. All we are doing is trying to find out the truth.

If the pumps are legit, end of discussion. The point of the thread is to squash the rumors and find out the truth. If they are certified there should be no issues getting the paperwork.

uniboob
11-05-2013, 01:21 PM
I think because it is being submerged in water/around hazardous environment makes them NEED to have certification.

From ESA site:

The OESC Rule 2-022(3) (c) specifies some exceptions to electrical product approval requirements. Electrical equipment does not require approval if it connected to the load side of an approved Class 2 power supply whose power output does not exceed 100 V

warriorcookie
11-05-2013, 02:45 PM
I think because it is being submerged in water/around hazardous environment makes them NEED to have certification.

From ESA site:

The OESC Rule 2-022(3) (c) specifies some exceptions to electrical product approval requirements. Electrical equipment does not require approval if it connected to the load side of an approved Class 2 power supply whose power output does not exceed 100 V

uniboob, you're close. The powerhead itself does not need the certification, submerged or not. This is because the powerhead operates at 24V which falls below the 100V requirement.

It's the Class 2 power supply (the "Wall Wart", AC/DC converter) that needs the certification.


I have yet to see anyone produce a shred of information that confirms that the certification is faked. There's alot of "I've heard" and "I know for a fact", but no-one is producing a credible source...

kien
11-05-2013, 03:17 PM
Also, the UL approval label seems to be counterfeit.

Regards,


What does "seems to be" mean? Does that mean yes, it is, and without any doubt or reservation, or does that mean, "well, maybe it is, maybe it isn't" ?

also.. :pop2:

byee
11-05-2013, 03:26 PM
Forgot to mention from what I was told if your house burns down from this pump your insurance won't pay. I would love more clarification on this problem.

Absolutely correct about your house insurance not covering damages caused by a non CSA approved device.

For the ones in BC, there is a safety office you can take your electrical devices to get it approved by the BC Safety board. I can't remember what the office is called but it was located in Richmond located near the tech companies. I remember taking samples of computer power supplies to them when I was importing them.

Good luck!

jorjef
11-05-2013, 03:27 PM
What does "seems to be" mean? Does that mean yes, it is, and without any doubt or reservation, or does that mean, "well, maybe it is, maybe it isn't" ?

I would say it means... "just make it sound like it's kinda bad if you can't prove it "

:lol:

uniboob
11-05-2013, 03:29 PM
Thanks for the clarification, I was going to call ESA inspector to come do a field evaluation as I know a few around here.

Reef Pilot
11-05-2013, 04:22 PM
Just curious, are DIY LED fixtures, and other DIY devices involving electricity (eg. ATO switches) illegal, and no insurance coverage if there is a fire?

Aquattro
11-05-2013, 04:30 PM
Just curious, are DIY LED fixtures, and other DIY devices involving electricity (eg. ATO switches) illegal, and no insurance coverage if there is a fire?

I was thinking the same thing :)

jorjef
11-05-2013, 04:32 PM
Can you here the crickets?? Good question, let the panic ensue.

kien
11-05-2013, 04:33 PM
I think the moral of this story is that if you're going to burn down your house with non approved electrical hardware, then just make sure that the equipment in question has completely disintegrated beyond all recognition. Problem solved. Thank me later.

Aquattro
11-05-2013, 04:35 PM
Can you here the crickets?? Good question, let the panic ensue.

I know for certain that any electrical project I undertake is much more likely to light my house on fire than any factory produced equipment. So far Brad's projects, 2 fires, counterfeit sticker items, 0.

Reef Pilot
11-05-2013, 04:40 PM
And does this mean I should disconnect my DIY water sensor (connected to my Apex IO Breakout Box) that shuts down my pumps if I have a water leak or spill?

Seriak
11-05-2013, 04:49 PM
In my research of LED's I read this.

"Low voltage LED lights do not require these seals as they are required only for line voltage (AC) devices"

I also read the following.

"products that are considered “low voltage devices” by UL do not require UL approval. These devices utilize voltages ranging from 0 to 24VDC and do not have intrinsic safety requirements or other safety requirements for which UL approval would be required."

The Guy
11-05-2013, 04:52 PM
uniboob, you're close. The powerhead itself does not need the certification, submerged or not. This is because the powerhead operates at 24V which falls below the 100V requirement.

It's the Class 2 power supply (the "Wall Wart", AC/DC converter) that needs the certification.


I have yet to see anyone produce a shred of information that confirms that the certification is faked. There's alot of "I've heard" and "I know for a fact", but no-one is producing a credible source...
Ok here's a picture of the power AC/DC converter that came with my Jebao wp25 wavemaker, also on the side of the converter there is a slide switch to choose the DC voltage. Better start getting rid of all your lap-tops & monitors LOL!! I'm sure there's millions of these out there.
http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee386/clownlover1/c493609e-e332-4a79-bb9a-f757f6194d01_zps84f559e0.jpg (http://s1225.photobucket.com/user/clownlover1/media/c493609e-e332-4a79-bb9a-f757f6194d01_zps84f559e0.jpg.html)

jorjef
11-05-2013, 04:54 PM
I'm still getting out of this hobby. It's all a death trap.... Who ever thought mixing water and electricity would carry so many risks...Brad if you're ever out this way I would like to contract you for a little basement reno I have being mulling about.

Jeff000
11-05-2013, 04:59 PM
I think because it is being submerged in water/around hazardous environment makes them NEED to have certification.

From ESA site:

The OESC Rule 2-022(3) (c) specifies some exceptions to electrical product approval requirements. Electrical equipment does not require approval if it connected to the load side of an approved Class 2 power supply whose power output does not exceed 100 V

This. The fact that it's plugged in is what makes it OK.

Insurance will still cover you, they cover if your cigarette burns your house down.

warriorcookie
11-05-2013, 05:01 PM
Ya, I also checked the UL Online Certifications Directory (https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ul.com%2Fdatabase&ei=cSN5UpmLNMSIrAGMz4GACQ&usg=AFQjCNHzFo3p4wjJ3hg9TCgfH72aU1vdKg&bvm=bv.55980276,d.aWM). The manufacture listed on the AC/DC adapter (Shenzhen Borasen Technology) shows no results. Jebao does come up with multiple certificates, but all are older and none list WP25, WP40, etc...

I intend to continue using mine, but I'll be replacing my AC/DC adapters with ones that have a legitimate UL certification.

As far as DIY LED's:
The OESC Rule 2-022(3) (c) specifies some exceptions to electrical product approval requirements. Electrical equipment does not require approval if it connected to the load side of an approved Class 2 power supply whose power output does not exceed 100 V

So, the voltage between the driver and the LED's most times is below 100v. But the mains voltage to the driver most certainly is above. Check your drivers, there should be a certificate stamped there too.

Switches for ATO's are below the 100V as well.


On a side note, some of my USB wall chargers have the UL stamp, but many of the random ones I have do not...

Aquattro
11-05-2013, 05:02 PM
...Brad if you're ever out this way I would like to contract you for a little basement reno I have being mulling about.

My last "job" was a basement reno :)

kien
11-05-2013, 05:02 PM
Laurie, where is the UL logo ? I don't see it in that pic. I just flipped over my laptop power supply and it clearly has a "c (UL) us" logo on it. Is there another label on the other side of that power supply?

jorjef
11-05-2013, 05:05 PM
My last "job" was a basement reno :)

That's all the certification I require... I will advise the neighbors.

warriorcookie
11-05-2013, 05:11 PM
Laurie, where is the UL logo ? I don't see it in that pic. I just flipped over my laptop power supply and it clearly has a "c (UL) us" logo on it. Is there another label on the other side of that power supply?

The one I got with my WP25's has the UL certificate on it. The one he pictured is the optional variable power supply that was purchased optionally.

Reef Pilot
11-05-2013, 05:20 PM
This is my WP40 adapter. How can I tell if it is fake or illegal?
http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s540/wklatt/001600x800_zpse7191e40.jpg (http://s1304.photobucket.com/user/wklatt/media/001600x800_zpse7191e40.jpg.html)

Treebeard
11-05-2013, 05:22 PM
It was made in China so it is obviously a fake. :wink:

This is my WP40 adapter. How can I tell if it is fake or illegal?
http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s540/wklatt/001600x800_zpse7191e40.jpg (http://s1304.photobucket.com/user/wklatt/media/001600x800_zpse7191e40.jpg.html)

Seriak
11-05-2013, 05:23 PM
This is my WP40 adapter. How can I tell if it is fake or illegal?
http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s540/wklatt/001600x800_zpse7191e40.jpg (http://s1304.photobucket.com/user/wklatt/media/001600x800_zpse7191e40.jpg.html)

It looks legit. You would have to contact the certification company to tell if it was fake. Either way, you should be covered by your insurance company if damages resulted from it failing as it does have the seal and they can't tell consumers that they need to check every appliance manually even if it has the mark.

Either way, contact your insurance company as I hear that many would never deny a claim based off not having the certification.

Everything is made in China! :)

lastlight
11-05-2013, 05:28 PM
is it even the consumer's responsibility to confirm whether a certification is fake or not? i don't own anything that plugs in that i've gone and confirmed it's certification for.

Aquattro
11-05-2013, 05:30 PM
is it even the consumer's responsibility to confirm whether a certification is fake or not? i don't own anything that plugs in that i've gone and confirmed it's certification for.

Exactly.

jorjef
11-05-2013, 05:32 PM
We're loosing traction here, someone chime in with some nonsensical post

Cal_stir
11-05-2013, 05:33 PM
It is the consumers responsibility to ensure that what you are purchasing is approved, but there is no way to know if it is legit, that should be the authority's responsibility.

Seriak
11-05-2013, 05:37 PM
is it even the consumer's responsibility to confirm whether a certification is fake or not? i don't own anything that plugs in that i've gone and confirmed it's certification for.

+1

I am definitely not cancelling my order for my pump that's for sure. I just wish Nick would get his stock in sooner. :) Been waiting over a month.

MarkoD
11-05-2013, 05:42 PM
Just make sure to plug it into a gfci. If it shorts, it'll kick out the breaker in the plug, right?

Ross
11-05-2013, 05:49 PM
We're loosing traction here, someone chime in with some nonsensical post

Does anyone else have a WP-40 sound like a phone off the hook? Spooling up and down?

In all seriousness, this is why I haven't purchased the $1.00 led drivers from ebay there has to be some correlation between cost and quality.

I will check my power supply to see what sticker is on the back of it tonight.
There are millions of items sold at dollar stores around the country that I'm sure are not certified or legit.

jorjef
11-05-2013, 05:52 PM
I have the 25 that does the same thing. I can only hear it under full power and if nothing else ( t.v ) is on in the room.

Reef Pilot
11-05-2013, 05:56 PM
Does anyone else have a WP-40 sound like a phone off the hook? Spooling up and down?


Nope. Have to put my ear really close to even hear it. I use the random mode. Very, very quiet compared to some of the other pumps out there.

I think when it was new, I did hear it a bit when ramping up and down, but even then wasn't loud.

uniboob
11-05-2013, 05:56 PM
I don't think people are getting that yes, all these power supplies have been stamped with CE, ULC...and whatever else. The point being is that they are not actually certified, regardless of what the power supply says.

If someone was to happen to someone who purchased one from a retailer, it would be the consumers choice obviously to pursue a lawsuit. Which could entail jail time and lots of fines.

And a note to everyone that sells them: now you know they aren't certified in Canada, your walking on hot water IMO.

uniboob
11-05-2013, 05:59 PM
Just make sure to plug it into a gfci. If it shorts, it'll kick out the breaker in the plug, right?

Yea it could if your GFCI is working properly.

I work with electrical for a living, and can tell you GFCI don't always work the way they should. If you were to look up the # of recalls for GFCI you would be amazed.

kien
11-05-2013, 06:02 PM
Just make sure to plug it into a gfci. If it shorts, it'll kick out the breaker in the plug, right?

unless the GFCI is made in China..

Reef Pilot
11-05-2013, 06:05 PM
If someone was to happen to someone who purchased one from a retailer, it would be the consumers choice obviously to pursue a lawsuit. Which could entail jail time and lots of fines.

And how often does this happen? What exactly would you be sueing for? Doesn't there have to be some damages suffered or loss of some kind?

I used to work in big box retail, and was best friends with the head of the legal dept. They used to get lots of consumer lawsuits (mostly slips and falls), but never heard of a lawsuit over a label. And we used to buy a lot of stuff from China (almost all of the hard goods).

DAVE
11-05-2013, 06:09 PM
This thread is starting to lose focus...

Time for a GIF

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26422390/StarTrekChunk.gif

nrosdal
11-05-2013, 06:10 PM
unless the GFCI is made in China..

or has fake markings. It may not even have the right certs to run that little led that lights up the reset button.

uniboob
11-05-2013, 09:16 PM
And how often does this happen? What exactly would you be sueing for? Doesn't there have to be some damages suffered or loss of some kind?

I used to work in big box retail, and was best friends with the head of the legal dept. They used to get lots of consumer lawsuits (mostly slips and falls), but never heard of a lawsuit over a label. And we used to buy a lot of stuff from China (almost all of the hard goods).

It only needs to happen once. The lawsuit wouldn't be over a label... It would be over whatever damage/loss was caused.

The Guy
11-05-2013, 11:05 PM
The one I got with my WP25's has the UL certificate on it. The one he pictured is the optional variable power supply that was purchased optionally.
The one in the picture I posted was what came with the wp25 BNIB.
and no I see no UL on it at all, has anyone else out there got the same AC/DC converter with their wp 25? Anyone know what the FC with the small c inside the big C means, is that some kind of rating code?
http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee386/clownlover1/c493609e-e332-4a79-bb9a-f757f6194d01_zps84f559e0.jpg (http://s1225.photobucket.com/user/clownlover1/media/c493609e-e332-4a79-bb9a-f757f6194d01_zps84f559e0.jpg.html)

monocus
11-05-2013, 11:12 PM
nope-different label on mine

banditpowdercoat
11-05-2013, 11:18 PM
That's FCC Federal Communications Commission. To regulate and make sure the device does not emit any harmful or disruptive RF that could interfere with sensitive communications etc

The Guy
11-05-2013, 11:19 PM
nope-different label on mineWhich model is yours Bill a wp 25, 40 or 60?
Thanks Dan, I'll have to get a hold of Nick and see if he got any answers yet.

nrosdal
11-05-2013, 11:24 PM
Laurie,

the batch of pump that went to Vancouver order we're sent with the wrong plug & Power converters from manufacturer (euro plugs) all itmes in that order went with the Add on variable power supply. if you have concerns with the rating on the aftermarket supplies please email with your order number and I can send out the standard 1 when our Jebao order arrives.

monocus
11-05-2013, 11:26 PM
i have the 25 and 40-got direct from fish street

Theguru
11-05-2013, 11:47 PM
I'm concerned about other things out there like cad lights pumps to name one in a list. They don't have any labels that relate to legal here. Also is speed wave ok in the market. They have ul but not cul I think. It's worrying how much stuff is out there not legal now.

jorjef
11-06-2013, 12:09 AM
This is what I got with my 25. I'm not sure because I'm really not paying attention or care if the markings are good. bad or nothing at all. But if it gives anyone a warm an fuzzy to buy one giddy-up

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/jorjef/20131105_175638_zpsab0addf6.jpg

AquaticFinatic
11-06-2013, 12:39 AM
How's bouts koralia are they safe? I don't have one but am thinking I might.

nrosdal
11-06-2013, 01:11 AM
I think the safest method may include a coffee stir stick

kacairns
11-06-2013, 01:20 AM
Koralia I have says on it "house hold/indoor use only"

I guess we shouldn't be using it underwater as that doesn't actually fall under "indoor" category

DAVE
11-06-2013, 01:42 AM
Ya, I also checked the UL Online Certifications Directory (https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ul.com%2Fdatabase&ei=cSN5UpmLNMSIrAGMz4GACQ&usg=AFQjCNHzFo3p4wjJ3hg9TCgfH72aU1vdKg&bvm=bv.55980276,d.aWM). The manufacture listed on the AC/DC adapter (Shenzhen Borasen Technology) shows no results. Jebao does come up with multiple certificates, but all are older and none list WP25, WP40, etc...

I found nothing either.

StirCrazy
11-06-2013, 01:43 AM
ok I did a bunch of reading and in some cases if there is a problem caused by a non-CSA appliance then your insurance could be void, but doesn't seem to be much of that happening. one other interesting thing I did find was

"Provincial laws in Canada stipulate that electrical appliances connected to a public power source (commercial power source) must conform to CSA Standards."

so if they wanted to the goverment could come after you under this clause. and I did read in a bunch of places (ontario being one) that it is ileagal for a business to import and sell non csa equipment. probably a ton of exemptions for that one though, mind you I remember a while ago in victoria having to buy heaters cash only and they wern't on display as they were not "CSA" aproved. so aparently one vendor new they were not suposed to be selling them and didn't want to be caught, and for the record they were awsome heaters :mrgreen:

Steve

Aquattro
11-06-2013, 02:01 AM
I figure if a fire starts, just point the pump in that direction, the flow will extinguish it for sure!! :)

mark
11-06-2013, 03:51 AM
ok I did a bunch of reading and in some cases if there is a problem caused by a non-CSA appliance then your insurance could be void.


Steve

I'd be less than impressed that if I bought something from a local retailer in that voided my insurance.

mike31154
11-06-2013, 04:03 AM
Interesting read, this thread. Seems we get a nice & fuzzy when we see the required label & code on something from a reputable company, but sound the alarm bells if we're not quite sure the source is or is not reputable. I have no idea what actually goes on at "UL", but it's probably safe to assume that they don't scrutinize every single product of a given manufacturer down to the last detail. They probably don't even disassemble the 'to be certified' item to any great degree. Nor do they go to the manufacturer's assembly plant to see what goes on there. If a manufacturer seeking certification for a product has done their homework & provides all the spec sheets & possibly engineering data for the product they want certified, the boys & girls at UL probably don't even look at it before giving it the green light. I'm just guessing with those assumptions & could be totally off the mark. But if they actually do all the tests required for a 'safe' certification on a sample product, what's to stop a manufacturer from cutting corners after they have the coveted label? The manufacturer is also at the mercy of suppliers of other components that are part of the assembled end product. Could get a bad batch of wire for the power supply they're putting together with the UL label on it. You could end up with a Monday morning or Friday afternoon power supply!

I guess what I'm attempting to get across here is that a UL or CSA sticker on an electrical component is no absolute guarantee that it might not blow up in your face anyway. Chances are probably better than with one of 'dubious' heritage, but given the dumb things folks do with electrical stuff, certified or not, (like fully submerging a 110 volt heater, control head and all, under water) some will burn their houses down regardless of a sticker. And the whole low voltage thing can be misleading as h. If you've ever taken a long metal object & shorted it across a 12 volt 120 ampere/hour battery you will know what arc welding is all about. Might not get a shock, but can start a fire just as easily as a higher voltage component.

So yeah, by all means have a close look at all the electrics you have plugged in, not only on your tank, but around the house. It's usually pretty easy to determine if it's a good quality product & safe to use. More importantly, use the item as intended, especially around water.

For me, the fewer things with electrical cords actually in the water the better. This is why I prefer EcoTech power heads over Koralias or Jebaos, even Tunzes. Not because of a sticker on the power supply.

nrosdal
11-06-2013, 04:06 AM
I'd be less than impressed that if I bought something from a local retailer in that voided my insurance.

Yes, that would suck. But luckily the Jebao stuff has real certs so we are all good here :)

DAVE
11-06-2013, 10:35 AM
Yes, that would suck. But luckily the Jebao stuff has real certs so we are all good here :)


Did I miss something? Did you get the paperwork?

mseepman
11-06-2013, 05:43 PM
From his post, it sounds like Nick got some information. I hope it is good as I have Jebao pumps myself. I'm sure he will post when he has an opportunity.

If indeed everything is good...then I think it would be interesting to look back on the posts here at the "I know" statements and the "illegal" statements and consider how quickly people can jump to conclusions and things get out of hand. When we look at even the confusion and lack of true knowledge that the inspector had on the Canadacorals warehouse build thread, we see how things get blown out of proportion when there was no reason for it. Just my 2 cents.

nrosdal
11-06-2013, 06:26 PM
When i posted that last night i was just assuming that people are being over reacting weiners and that it seemed silly to assume fraud just because some unknown person said that something that looks very legit coming from a company with more then 10 years history in pumps(mostly pond early on) may be forged.

But this morning i got an email from the Jebao rep i deal with and i have some links to calm the folks down a bit.

One thing i did learn is that the adjustable power supplies (as an add on and not included with pump) are not ul or cul and even though i don't find that to be a problem and will keep running mine i will remove them from sale as i don't want to get involved in supplying people with something that may be even 1% unsafe. Especially when i am selling them as an add on at my cost as a convenience for my customers.

Here is Certification for the wp25/wp40/wp60 power supply:

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=QQGQ.E365975&ccnshorttitle=Power+Supplies,+Information+Technolo gy+Equipment+Including+Electrical+Business+Equipme nt&objid=1083536995&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073992439&sequence=1

nrosdal
11-06-2013, 06:32 PM
And here are some other links to certs in case you were wondering about other Jebao pumps and may be concerned:


Power supplies:

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=QQGQ7.E365975&ccnshorttitle=Power+Supplies,+Information+Technolo gy+Equipment+Including+Electrical+Business+Equipme nt+Certified+for+Canada&objid=1083537000&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073992441&sequence=1

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=QQGQ.E357959&ccnshorttitle=Power+Supplies,+Information+Technolo gy+Equipment+Including+Electrical+Business+Equipme nt&objid=1082686365&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073992439&sequence=1

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=QQGQ7.E357959&ccnshorttitle=Power+Supplies,+Information+Technolo gy+Equipment+Including+Electrical+Business+Equipme nt+Certified+for+Canada&objid=1082686370&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073992441&sequence=1

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=QQGQ.E321192&ccnshorttitle=Power+Supplies,+Information+Technolo gy+Equipment+Including+Electrical+Business+Equipme nt&objid=1079741659&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073992439&sequence=1

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=QQGQ.E321192&ccnshorttitle=Power+Supplies,+Information+Technolo gy+Equipment+Including+Electrical+Business+Equipme nt&objid=1079741659&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073992439&sequence=1

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=AZSQ.E336255&ccnshorttitle=Audio/Video+Apparatus&objid=1080961300&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073984370&sequence=1

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=AZSQ7.E336255&ccnshorttitle=Audio/Video+Apparatus+Certified+for+Canada&objid=1080961315&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073984372&sequence=1

Pumps:

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=REUZ.E204083&ccnshorttitle=Pumps,+Electrically+Operated,+Liquid&objid=1074417123&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073992773&sequence=1

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=REUZ2.E204083&ccnshorttitle=Pumps,+Electrically+Operated,+Liquid +-+Component&objid=1078530848&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073793593&sequence=1

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=REUZ7.E204083&ccnshorttitle=Pumps,+Electrically+Operated,+Liquid +Certified+for+Canada&objid=1074417128&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073992775&sequence=1

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=REUZ8.E204083&ccnshorttitle=Pumps,+Electrically+Operated,+Liquid +Certified+for+Canada+-+Component&objid=1078530853&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073992777&sequence=1

Low Voltage Pumps and lighting:

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=EPBU.E227337&ccnshorttitle=Direct-plug-in+and+Cord-connected+Class+2+Power+Units&objid=1076014647&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073986345&sequence=1

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=EPBU7.E227337&ccnshorttitle=Direct-plug-in+and+Cord-connected+Class+2+Power+Units+Certified+for+Canada&objid=1076014652&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073986347&sequence=1

Hope this helps.

Thanks

Ross
11-06-2013, 06:55 PM
Here is Certification for the wp25/wp40/wp60 power supply:

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=QQGQ.E365975&ccnshorttitle=Power+Supplies,+Information+Technolo gy+Equipment+Including+Electrical+Business+Equipme nt&objid=1083536995&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073992439&sequence=1


And that ladies and gentlemen is how one silences that!

Thanks Nick for putting this to rest.

Personally I see this as nothing more than a smear campaign by someone that prides them self on spending $3500 on power heads.

The Guy
11-06-2013, 06:59 PM
And here are some other links to certs in case you were wondering about other Jebao pumps and may be concerned:


Power supplies:

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=QQGQ7.E365975&ccnshorttitle=Power+Supplies,+Information+Technolo gy+Equipment+Including+Electrical+Business+Equipme nt+Certified+for+Canada&objid=1083537000&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073992441&sequence=1

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=QQGQ.E357959&ccnshorttitle=Power+Supplies,+Information+Technolo gy+Equipment+Including+Electrical+Business+Equipme nt&objid=1082686365&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073992439&sequence=1

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=QQGQ7.E357959&ccnshorttitle=Power+Supplies,+Information+Technolo gy+Equipment+Including+Electrical+Business+Equipme nt+Certified+for+Canada&objid=1082686370&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073992441&sequence=1

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=QQGQ.E321192&ccnshorttitle=Power+Supplies,+Information+Technolo gy+Equipment+Including+Electrical+Business+Equipme nt&objid=1079741659&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073992439&sequence=1

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=QQGQ.E321192&ccnshorttitle=Power+Supplies,+Information+Technolo gy+Equipment+Including+Electrical+Business+Equipme nt&objid=1079741659&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073992439&sequence=1

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=AZSQ.E336255&ccnshorttitle=Audio/Video+Apparatus&objid=1080961300&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073984370&sequence=1

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=AZSQ7.E336255&ccnshorttitle=Audio/Video+Apparatus+Certified+for+Canada&objid=1080961315&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073984372&sequence=1

Pumps:

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=REUZ.E204083&ccnshorttitle=Pumps,+Electrically+Operated,+Liquid&objid=1074417123&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073992773&sequence=1

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=REUZ2.E204083&ccnshorttitle=Pumps,+Electrically+Operated,+Liquid +-+Component&objid=1078530848&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073793593&sequence=1

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=REUZ7.E204083&ccnshorttitle=Pumps,+Electrically+Operated,+Liquid +Certified+for+Canada&objid=1074417128&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073992775&sequence=1

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=REUZ8.E204083&ccnshorttitle=Pumps,+Electrically+Operated,+Liquid +Certified+for+Canada+-+Component&objid=1078530853&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073992777&sequence=1

Low Voltage Pumps and lighting:

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=EPBU.E227337&ccnshorttitle=Direct-plug-in+and+Cord-connected+Class+2+Power+Units&objid=1076014647&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073986345&sequence=1

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/showpage.html?name=EPBU7.E227337&ccnshorttitle=Direct-plug-in+and+Cord-connected+Class+2+Power+Units+Certified+for+Canada&objid=1076014652&cfgid=1073741824&version=versionless&parent_id=1073986347&sequence=1

Hope this helps.

Thanks
Hey Nick, your the only supplier of Jebao wavemakers that has chimed in on this thread and got the info for folks to read and put their minds at ease.
Good on you man! :sad2:

Kraken
11-06-2013, 07:07 PM
Jebao is a major distributor of pond pumps to many big box retailers so you can be sure they got their certs straight. The saltwater line make up a very small portion of their products.

Aquattro
11-06-2013, 07:14 PM
Personally I see this as nothing more than a smear campaign by someone that prides them self on spending $3500 on power heads.

Exactly. Who started this??

nrosdal
11-06-2013, 07:17 PM
Exactly. Who started this??

It was me, i had the file in my back pocket the whole time and wanted to look the hero :twised:

msjboy
11-06-2013, 08:09 PM
If you look at most non mainstream china products, like led lights (zetlights, evergrow..par38 led etc), pumps, they at the minimal use a ce certification label. A higher tier main stream product that sells at higher end stores, they put in ul for the american market. To put a csa, well, the canadian market is so small, they dont bother - saving a few hundred to few thousand dollars for the certification is the probable interest of these companies. If the do past ce and ul, it is probably good enough for the canadian market but insurance companies will weasel out of any claims due to damage/fire.

jorjef
11-06-2013, 08:19 PM
Does anyone have a rope I could borrow??...... Hold on i will use the chain around my ankle, Thanks.

SeaHorse_Fanatic
11-06-2013, 08:24 PM
Thanks Nick. Appreciate the extra effort you went to quiet this smear campaign based on rumour and pure speculation.

MODS, could you please change the title of this thread to something like:

"Jebao Pumps - PROVEN LEGAL!"

Otherwise, for people who don't read through to the end will assume there is something to the baseless accusations.

Thanks,

Anthony

Aquattro
11-06-2013, 08:25 PM
insurance companies will weasel out of any claims due to damage/fire.

Can we get one single example of this happening ever??

Aquattro
11-06-2013, 08:25 PM
It was me

Burn him, he's a witch!!!!!

kien
11-06-2013, 08:57 PM
omg guys, this thread has been an emotional roller coaster ! First I'm like, WHOA, are they illegal ?! Then I'm like WHOA!! Michael assures me that they ARE illegal! Then I'm like whoa.... they totally are legal. I need to go watch some lolcats now.

Ron99
11-06-2013, 09:13 PM
CE is a self certification process though so I would not put as much stock in that as I would in UL or CSA. But I have heard some Chinese companies will send well built examples for UL certification and then skimp and swap cheaper components for the production runs. Not saying Jebao does this but I have heard of it happening.

Rice Reef
11-06-2013, 09:23 PM
omg guys, this thread has been an emotional roller coaster ! First I'm like, WHOA, are they illegal ?! Then I'm like WHOA!! Michael assures me that they ARE illegal! Then I'm like whoa.... they totally are legal. I need to go watch some lolcats now.


So many haters... glad to see this one worked out for the good guys! I'm sure all them mp40s and tunze parts came out of the same factory.

Say, was that statement from that electrician or whomever get deleted? Don't see it anymore... I was just wondering if that guy that came out stating that these are Illegal was a certified person or was just someone who bought his/her diploma off Ebay...

ReefHero
11-06-2013, 10:22 PM
Are we going to see a counter or explanation from Aqua Digital?? I see their post is gone.....

Thanks to everyone who got involved in this! Great thread!!

DAVE
11-06-2013, 10:27 PM
I am not sure what everyone is so mad about. I started this thread because I heard somethings from vendors and hobbyists both on facebook/email/forums and even a local store told me he wasn't sure. I didn't want to name people as this thread is not about going out and slamming people for something they said without proof. I simply was asking a question, just like many other threads.

Nick came through with the paperwork and I applaud him for it.

The point of this thread was the squash the rumors and put people minds at ease (if they were worried, I know most of you don't care about certifications).

Again, thank you Nick

DAVE
11-06-2013, 10:29 PM
Exactly. Who started this??


I started the thread with a question to a concern I had.

Seriak
11-06-2013, 10:36 PM
Hey someone had to post it.

Hey mods can I pay a sponsor fee to be able to delete my old posts as well. :)

Aquattro
11-06-2013, 10:38 PM
I started the thread with a question to a concern I had.

Burn him, he's a witch!!

Aquattro
11-06-2013, 10:39 PM
Hey someone had to post it.

Hey mods can I pay a sponsor fee to be able to delete my old posts as well. :)

He can't do that. He specifically asked Titus to remove it for him. I'm not sure the reasoning behind it.

ReefHero
11-06-2013, 10:45 PM
Burn him, he's a witch!!

LOL

DAVE
11-06-2013, 10:47 PM
Look below, do I look like a witch?

:mrgreen:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26422390/IMG_1640.JPG

Aquattro
11-06-2013, 10:50 PM
Look below, do I look like a witch?



Not in the typical sense, no. And if you're gonna ride that broom, don't sit on the wrong end.

Treebeard
11-06-2013, 10:56 PM
You sure wreaked a lot of damage with that teeny weeny auger. Nice! :biggrin:

Look below, do I look like a witch?

:mrgreen:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26422390/IMG_1640.JPG

Rice Reef
11-06-2013, 11:07 PM
He can't do that. He specifically asked Titus to remove it for him. I'm not sure the reasoning behind it.

Legal reasons... potential libel.

kien
11-07-2013, 01:18 AM
I am not sure what everyone is so mad ..

I'm not mad, but a little upset that there wasn't a poll attached to this thread. A poll might have settled this debate. But I suppose hard evidence works too.

Taipan
11-07-2013, 03:51 AM
:mrgreen:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26422390/IMG_1640.JPG

I'm actually intimidated to read through 12 pages of ANY thread. I'm also not really adding to the body of knowledge to this thread. I just had to comment though:

#1.) If you knew how tall/big Dave actually was.....that auger is MORE impressive. lol

#2.) Please tell me you're going to be doing some "Santa Claus" theme this season. lol Or at least some lumberjack event/party. lol

#3.) If you have the good fortune to trade corals with him......if he describes it as "palm sized" or "fist sized"......TAKE IT and run.

SeaHorse_Fanatic
11-07-2013, 05:08 AM
Nick came through with the paperwork and I applaud him for it.

The point of this thread was the squash the rumors and put people minds at ease (if they were worried, I know most of you don't care about certifications).

Again, thank you Nick

Nice to see it go from :fencing: to group :hug:
:biggrin:

AquaticFinatic
11-07-2013, 01:00 PM
I understand the post was pulled due to legal reasons of an ongoing investigation into the certification of hard wired pumps into tanks as they may still not be covered under the class 2 act ESA have yet to clarify.

Theguru
11-07-2013, 01:16 PM
Can someone tell me if the ce is ok? My cad lights skimmer has just that on it. I'm worried now!

StirCrazy
11-07-2013, 03:03 PM
Can someone tell me if the ce is ok? My cad lights skimmer has just that on it. I'm worried now!

nope, your going to go to jail if caught using it, Lucky for you I am an authorized non-compliant equipment disposal outlet, so if you PM me I'll send you my address and I will get rid of it for you. :wink:

Steve

mike31154
11-07-2013, 03:41 PM
I understand the post was pulled due to legal reasons of an ongoing investigation into the certification of hard wired pumps into tanks as they may still not be covered under the class 2 act ESA have yet to clarify.

Interesting...

I haven't figured out the multi quote feature of the forum, so I'll have to 'refer' to my last statement in post #79, for those who care to go back & read it. Ideally, no electrical cords in the water if at all possible. And I'll reiterate that a sticker on a component is no absolute guarantee an electrical component is immune to failure & exactly how it is going to fail. I'm fairly certain if you search on 'product recall', you'll find plenty of horror stories about certified electrical gizmos being poorly engineered, manufactured or assembled. If the certification is that much of a concern to anyone, it might be time to look for another hobby.

jorjef
11-07-2013, 05:19 PM
nope, your going to go to jail if caught using it, Lucky for you I am an authorized non-compliant equipment disposal outlet, so if you PM me I'll send you my address and I will get rid of it for you. :wink:

Steve


Nice... lol

The Guy
11-07-2013, 06:19 PM
Ok everyone can we be done now! :mmph:

Aquattro
11-07-2013, 06:19 PM
nope, your going to go to jail if caught using it, Lucky for you I am an authorized non-compliant equipment disposal outlet, so if you PM me I'll send you my address and I will get rid of it for you. :wink:

Steve

This is what I love about the reefing community. Steve is ready and willing to help out a fellow reefer with his illegal equipment. Way to go Steve!!!!

Aquattro
11-07-2013, 06:19 PM
Ok everyone can we be done now! :mmph:

Pretty sure this was done yesterday.

The Guy
11-07-2013, 06:21 PM
Pretty sure this was done yesterday.

Hope so!!! Thanks Brad

Parker
11-07-2013, 07:44 PM
Which Corporation sells the best salt to use with these pumps?

kien
11-07-2013, 07:46 PM
Which Corporation sells the best salt to use with these pumps?

Fragalot. I recommend a group buy.

reefwars
11-07-2013, 07:46 PM
free pukani?

jorjef
11-07-2013, 07:49 PM
Lets take a poll

lastlight
11-07-2013, 08:40 PM
brad it's not done until you make it done.

bump for a potentially legal deal.