HFP75's - 55 Galllon

[hfp75]

My tank is about a year old. The chronic PO4 and NO3 are forever the issue.

I have a reactor that I run some Carbon and RowaPhos in intermittantly and some Chaeto down in the sump under a light.

My NO3 hover consistantly 40-60..... water changes work but only for a day or so and then back to 40-60. They dont go over a 60 even if I dont change water for a while.

So, I got thinking. I need a source of anaerobic bacteria to thrive on my NO3. I have decided to build a de-Nitrate Coil. Pics and progress will follow.....


Tank
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m79/hfp75/photo_zps16b93732.jpg

Sump
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m79/hfp75/sump3.jpg

[hfp75]

So, Today I started working on my Coil. I am using a 3' x 4" PVC pipe. Generally, what I have read online is that its 2' but I have added an extra foot or 50% of capacity which should mean that I eventually could run it abit faster and still be ok.

My coil is 3/8 OD 1/4 ID semi-rigid tube that was a PITA to get coiled into the 4" pipe. Once again most directions talk about 50' and I'm using 75' another 50%. Here is a pic.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m79/hfp75/photo0_zps24dcc06a.jpg

I cut a hole and glued in a double female threaded adapter that I need to make sure doesnt move as it is gonna be more of a bulkhead. This is the 'Tank Water IN'. Pic...

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m79/hfp75/photo2_zps16abf657.jpg

To add some strength to it I added the end flange over top the normal pipe at the adapter. It is a snug fit and well PVC glued in place.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m79/hfp75/photo1_zps82a5800f.jpg

To ensure some more strength I have JB Welded the outside with a good sized application. This is kinda visible in this pic.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m79/hfp75/photo5_zpse203dd32.jpg

Here is a shot of the bottem. It is a threaded end cap. Just in case I need to get into this thing. Inside at the top I added a 90 degree elbow to the end of the 3/8 / 1/4 tube, just to make sure the tank water comming in heads to the middle. This elbow narrows the ID just a bit more and I am not sure about this. This is the narrowest Diameter of all the tubes (the bottleneck). If I need to remove it I can since its on the threaded end. The flow shouldnt be much either so, in theory it should work.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m79/hfp75/photo4_zps8a856665.jpg

Its drying over night.

[IanWR]

Very interesting! I had never heard of a de-nitrifying coil so had to look it up. I'll keep up on your progress.

I have a question about your sump. I see a bag of ceramic rings, is that the drain that goes into it? I'm still very new at saltwater, but "they" seem to say to avoid biomedia as they came become "nitrate factories". Could this be contributing to your problem?

- Ian

[Kryptic4L]

is that a uv sterilizer ? is it possible that its killing some good stuff ?

[hfp75]

Ill be doing a water change today and a cleaning. I'll remove the media from the sump and give it a vacuum.

The UV is a 9watt and has been turned off for the last few months - the light burn out. No changes to the NO3. Last week I replaced the light and got it turned back no and again no changes so I'll rule out the UV...

[Kryptic4L]

also you might want to do some googling about ceramic rings, as it appears you have a large amount of them in your sump. Alledegely they can become nitrate factorys if not maintained.

[hfp75]

Good Point, the ceramic rings and SeaChem Matrix is gone - and sump cleaned. Before I run the coil I'll test nitrates.... Dont worry.

Well, back to the denitrate coil. Yesterday I finished all the plumbing for the "IN" side of it. Not much working room and things in there are tight. Here is a before pic.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m79/hfp75/topen_zpscbc849a8.jpg

I had to use a 90degree connecter to get the bits together, but there shouldnt be 'much' water moving through this thing so... it should be good. I might hate myself for using the internal barbed connecter (even narrower and more flow restriction) much like the other 90 connecter at the bottom. Maybe I should have used the double female quick connect push connector. We will see with time.

Here is an after shot & you can see some silicone - GE1 (windows/doors) just enough to keep the tubes inside from moving or shifting.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m79/hfp75/tdone_zps8b63cf5a.jpg

I finished work on the top cap BUT dropped it and now I am re-JB Welding it. I think it would have been fine without more JB but I'll add just a bit more - never hurts. Pics on the next post.

All thats left is to glue on the top cap, add in BIO BALLS (I'm still searching for some - Hint Hint Hint) & screw on the bottem cover.

It will need 2 hoses hooked up and a week or 2 to cycle. Then we will see.

[hfp75]

OK well here is the promised picture of the topcap. You can clearly see the 2 grey colors. That is the second batch of the JB Weld that will hold that bulkhead in place. I needed to reinforce the top cap just a bit with an extra layer of pvc.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m79/hfp75/tops_zps81969446.jpg

Hopefully next pic and update has the Cap glued on and bioballs in.

[michika]

This is pretty cool. I remember trying to make one of these way way way back in the day. Sadly it wasn't successful for me, however I still think the idea is very interesting and I'm excited to see someone succeed with it.

[hfp75]

OK, 'jettawagon' was kind enough to let me fill this thing with some of his surplus bioballs. THANKS!!!

Next, I glued on the top cap and tightened up the bottom access. Voilà its done!

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m79/hfp75/done_zpsf47d9482.jpg

I have an extra 260 gph pump sitting here so hooked it all up. I got the pump in the bucket and filled it with water. Problem, as you know we need alot of pressure to "Prime" this thing and get out all the air bubbles. I'll admit (as it wasn't working) I was fearful of a dis-assembly. After finding a large syringe, I was able to pressure infuse by hand the water that was needed into the 75' of coiled hose (inside), to prime it. After that the pump worked great and I was able to easily fill the rest of it up with tap water. It is sitting recirculating water from the bucket. With a 260gph it has a steady flow out but no pressure.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m79/hfp75/circulate_zpscdc60c7a.jpg

There are a few things outstanding still. The hoses leak a bit where it attaches to the denitrater, I need to get 2 hose clamps (this is easy). Also, I think that the screw on bottom cover might dribble (leak) a bit. I'll try tightening it up & if that doesn't work, silicone. I think so that I can sleep at night (fearing a leak) I'll use the silicone, but it might make it really hard to get back into - lets hope I don't need to. (I'll silicone just a bit for a seal but not the threads!)

I need to open it, dry it, silicone it, let it dry/cure, ventilate it, and then I think it'll be water time again. This will be a few days & I'll save some water from the next water change to help back fill the new volume that I need.

[hfp75]

Well, its been a few days (busy working). I did a water change yesterday and kept the old water with nutrients for this project. It took a long time to get it primed again with old tank water. Lots of manual priming (pushing out air bubbles). (I've got a heater and no pump in the bucket as there is enough extra circulation already from the pump in there.)

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m79/hfp75/tall_zps9f7166c4.jpg

After a gymnastics event with it, the air is gone (I think) and its dripping old tank water at about a drip a second. The rate was hard to get as the valve isn't obviously rated for such precision. You can maybe see a slow drop forming....

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m79/hfp75/drip_zpsf2e9b2f8.jpg

I'm getting the Ammonia, Nitrites and Nitrate readings from the bucket of water. Just so we have something to compare against.

:-) Lets see if this thing works.

[hfp75]

Here are my levels as of today
Ammonia - 0-0.25
Nitrites - 0
Nitrates - 20

I know that the colors don't really come through that great.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m79/hfp75/levels_zps6aec1310.jpg

[hfp75]

ON 10/19

I tested the NITRATEs and the test came back so 'Dark Red' I was concerned about what was going on - but I left it to just run and do its thing. I am figuring it is part of the initial cycle. (I didn't take a picture)

I will guess that...

Nitrates - 100 ppm

[hfp75]

Today I tested the water again and am very happy with the results!

Nitrates - 5-10 (This is easily a reduction of 75 ppm)
Phosphates - 0.25 (maybe a bit less & not far from the source water)
Ph - 7.9 (a bit low but there is no light/photosynthesis in the bucket)

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m79/hfp75/tests_zpse8e2097d.jpg

All water samples were taken from the return hose and not the bucket of water. If the Nitrates are just dropping now from the massive 100 and I'm sitting at 5-10 I am very happy. I'll give it another few days and we will see where things are at.

I hope that when I check it again Nitrates are a Zero from the return line and the bucket. The phosphates are easily correctable with Rowaphos & the Ph I can correct with some buffer.

Lets wait and see........

[hfp75]

Tonight I tested the water again and I'm ecstatic with the results!

Nitrates - 0 (No interpretation needed)
Phosphates - 0.25 (maybe a bit less & not far from the source water)
Ph - 7.9 (should self correct once its in the tank water circulation, plus its holding at 7.9 and not dropping.)

ONLY CHANGE IS NITRATES TO A ZERO!!!!

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m79/hfp75/water_zpsa1e28a0e.jpg

All water samples were taken from the return hose and not the bucket of water. The Nitrates have dropped from the massive 100 and I'm sitting at ZERO!!!!!!! It first started running its cycle on the 17th and by today the 28th, it looks to be running (fully cycled).

Time to add this thing into the tank circulation and monitor it & the tank!

[hfp75]

This post my indicate it is working...... have a read.

Well, its time for another update, it has been 19 days and I think we are on track. On day 15 I noticed a slight drop in NO3 from the return line coming from the denitrate coil - not enough that I was excited. I have been keeping nitrates about 40-50 so there is a constant supply to culture the anaerobic bacteria in the denitrate coil. Yesterday I did a small water change just to freshen up the tank water. This dropped my tank NO3 to 20.

In the last few days I have noticed twice that when I examine the return line it has stopped flowing & so I adjust it again for a small drip. Understand that I have not tampered with the valve restricting flow to decrease it. I am hypothesizing that the slimy barrier has formed inside and that small buildup has clogged the small opening in the ball valve - hence stopping or blocking the flow. Thus twice I have adjusted the flow to a slow drip... about 3 drips in 2 seconds - very hard to get right - but I don't want to get a flood of O2 rich tank water into the coil for fear of altering the bacterial cultures that are O2 void. I also think that the slime layer that is forming is also where all the anaerobic bacteria will basically be thriving.

So, in short, I think the slimy smooth coating is formed or forming and the anaerobic bacteria now in turn is establishing itself. Here is the latest NO3 values.

Tank NO3 - 20ppm
Denitrate Coil return Line NO3 - 5 ppm

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m79/hfp75/no3nov16_zps389de736.jpg

Lets just wait a bit longer and keep our eye on things to see how this progresses. There is no other way the return line would be less than the tank supply line unless the NO3 was being consumed inside the coil.

Question is - Am I running it to fast and the 2 stoppages have allowed the consumption of NO3? or is it just starting to work? either way I will post updates. I may need to slow down the flow a bit.... but I'll wait for now and see what happens.

[lastlight]

The second question is when is this tank journal going to see some tank photos? :biggrin:

[hfp75]

You have a good point, I will take a few pics of the tank....

UPDATE on the denitrate coil.... ( I really do hope this works better than a DSB!!!!!!!!!!!!)

I added in another inline ball valve to allow better control over flow restriction. It worked well, I was able to bring down the flow just a tiny bit more.

Today I tested the coil return water and the tank water and here is the results.... (no new H2O changes either)

Tank - NO3 - between 15-20 (just under a 20 by my eye)
Coil - NO2 - looks like a ZERO to me.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m79/hfp75/no3_zps981c46ac.jpg

There have been no noticeable changes to my Ph as I check my Apex for its readings (graphing weekly).

So, it looks to now be working. I will give it another week, just like it is and see how my tank NO3 adjusts. Can I combat NO3 production (from the tank) and stay at a 15-20? or will I rise up to a 40? Either way the coil will help. Once I know that the coil is 100% functional & stable I will consider turning it up just a tiny bit if I need to. Maybe next week or a bit after that.

I will try to get some pics of my tank and a current stock list.

[hfp75]

I had a comment about there not really being pics of the tank. So, here is a current shot of it.

The tank:
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m79/hfp75/photo6_zpse55395cf.jpg

The Sump: (far right -chaeto, skimmer, baffles, smalll pumps, and return pump. I am pumping tank water to a 9w UV, 2LF reactor (rowa & carbon), and the denitrate coil)
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m79/hfp75/photo3_zpsa9b77209.jpg

Side shot with the Denitrate Coil: (there is a Tunze ATO with the return pump and the grey basin on the side is the ATO water, the Apex can be seen on the right - floor)
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m79/hfp75/photo4_zpsa19bb345.jpg

FYI (coil denitrator), I have not done a water change since Nov 15 (26 days) and the NO3 in the tank is still hovering around a 15-20. This thing actually works - its a bit finicky but whatever - now that its running I am not gonna mess with it.

[asylumdown]

Considering how high your nitrates have been your tank is spectacular, sand is clean, doesn't look over-run with nuisance algae, and those corals are beautiful.

I read about denitrator coils a while back when I was looking in to nutrient control methods for my tank. Just curious, what made you decide to go with this instead of something like organic carbon dosing?

Have you ever struggled with algae, or just high nitrates?

[hfp75]

Well, I have not really had nuisance algae at all. Every now and then I get a bit of algae built up on the sand, but usually that is under the tube anemone, as none of the snails or sand sifting star fish will go under there to stir up the sand (I'll just do it with my fingers every few weeks). Rarely will I find much for algae, I have only suffered from high NO3 from the mixed reef tank.

I debated vodka, sugar, bioballs/pellets & IO NO3 reducer, but in the end the 'COIL' looked best as there were no additives, just loads of anaerobic bacteria. Less overall cost!!!! Plus, if the additives run out (in the tank/system) you have a bacterial crash as they don't have the carbon to live on. This way, if the 'COIL' is removed or shuts down it just reverts back to aerobic bacteria and the existing anaerobic that is in the tank. No massive die off. All my bacteria live on their own. You could say that dosing is like steroids, but dosing doesn't only effect bacteria. So, the potential mess/crash if there are carbon issues (runs out, or changes in concentration) could be monumental!!! Hence why I steered away from it.

No Additives, no increased cost, less chance of a crash....

My cost to build the coil was about $50 bucks plus the pump, hose & inline ball valves.

[lastlight]

tank looks great and you weren't kidding... that tube nem is huge.

[hfp75]

I'll be shameless, the tube anemone is for sale/trade. If I had a bigger tank I'd just keep it but in my 55g there just isn't enough room, it's very healthy and eats a ton of brine/mysis when I feed, it'll even eat cyclopseese!

I know, shameless sales plug!

[hfp75]

The Tube Anemone has a new home....

OK, it has been a few days since I have updated this thread. My tank is doing well. My Aussie Gold Torch has died - I am very sad about this!!!!!! but I figured I could test the Coil with the NO3 surge. Before the RTN my NO3 were , now 2 days after the RTN consumed the Gold Torch they are 40.

I want to see how long it takes for them to drop - or if they stay at 40'ish.

Here is a pic....
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m79/hfp75/dec_zpsec3d0b74.jpg

Before 10-20
After 20-40

This is a 5-6 day difference. I know that the color interpretation is hard with these test kits but its close... plus actually seeing them is better than the pictures. The lighting in the picture can change the color just a bit.

As for the Aussie Gold Torch, it fell into a bunch of Xenia and that began its true demise..... I am frustrated as I love Gold Torches but I'll get another. Anyone have a frag ????? One that is growing well in their tank ?