Adding more fish to quarantine tank

[AdamsB]

For a little over a week I've had a ~3" yellow tang in quarantine in a 20G long. I'd like to get a few green chromis, 2-5 depending on what the lfs has. Could I add this many to a 20g? I've been doing 25% water changes twice a week so far an feeding lightly twice a day to reduce waste. No filter just air pump and power head, I plan to add some spare live rock from my sump today to eliminate any ammonia that may start to build up. I'm not dosing any meds as of 6 days ago.

[Madreefer]

A 3" tang in a 20g long? I won't comment on that one. I'm sure there's someone on here that will try ripping you a new one for that alone. :biggrin:
I'm not a fan of quarantine tanks. IMO it causes more stress. That's a different topic all together. But plugging more fish in there is kind of defeating the purpose of quarantining anyways isn't it? Just prolonging your quarantine time. No treatments nor filter is more of a holding tank isn't it?:lol:

[The Guy]

A 3" tang in a 20g long? I won't comment on that one. I'm sure there's someone on here that will try ripping you a new one for that alone. :biggrin:
I'm not a fan of quarantine tanks. IMO it causes more stress. That's a different topic all together. But plugging more fish in there is kind of defeating the purpose of quarantining anyways isn't it? Just prolonging your quarantine time. No treatments nor filter is more of a holding tank isn't it?:lol:

Hope the tang cops aren't around! :sorry: but it's just not a good idea to put him in a 20 g long even on his own, I agree with Bill it will probably stress the tang out more. My 2 cents worth!!

[Myka]

Wait until the Tang is done his quarantine before adding any more fish. Patience in this hobby is very important. You don't want to risk bringing in disease to a fish that, I assume, is doing well.

In the future, a 3" Yellow Tang and other fish of similar size and activity level would fare better in a 36" quarantine tank like a 40-gallon or a 33-gallon. You may find you get greater losses by using such a small tank for a fish of that size and activity level. A 20-gallon quarantine tank is better suited to smaller fish, or a small group of Chromis or Damsels like you're planning.

[AdamsB]

3 inches or a little under. It was either let him die in the fish store or take him home to what I can provide. Here's a pic of day one and one week later. Huge improvement on the dorsal fin.
http://i.imgur.com/8wE0ER5.jpg
If the tang police want to buy me a bigger tank I'm all for that, otherwise I'm doing the best I can :)

I agree that adding fish to the quarantine will prolong it but after one week does it really matter? I wouldn't do it If the tang was a month in. I'm not sure if quarantine is a good word, I won't be dosing meds unless there's a problem. It's more a holding tank to make sure they're eating. But anyway, this is why I posted the question, because I don't know if its a good choice. I understand tangs need room which is why I went for 30 inches of swimming length and sold my original 30 gallon half moon which was almost 30 inches vertical. I don't have room right now for a larger quarantine. I haven't bought the chromis yet because I'm not in any rush, but like most people sooner would be nicer.

[Myka]

3 inches or a little under. It was either let him die in the fish store or take him home to what I can provide. Here's a pic of day one and one week later. Huge improvement on the dorsal fin.

If the tang police want to buy me a bigger tank I'm all for that, otherwise I'm doing the best I can :)

I agree that adding fish to the quarantine will prolong it but after one week does it really matter? I wouldn't do it If the tang was a month in. I'm not sure if quarantine is a good word, I won't be dosing meds unless there's a problem. It's more a holding tank to make sure they're eating. But anyway, this is why I posted the question, because I don't know if its a good choice. I understand tangs need room which is why I went for 30 inches of swimming length and sold my original 30 gallon half moon which was almost 30 inches vertical. I don't have room right now for a larger quarantine. I haven't bought the chromis yet because I'm not in any rush, but like most people sooner would be nicer.

Your tang is still in pretty rough condition and thus, very susceptible to disease. The tang has pretty bad HLLE (head and lateral line erosion) and will require very good care on your part to give him the best chance. If you introduced other fish to the tank at this time not only would that risk introducing disease to your already weakened tang, but it would also make water quality a bigger challenge for you. Water quality is one of the biggest factors in improving HLLE for your tang.

Your 20-gallon quarantine is "over full" already, you admit you're "doing the best you can", so continue doing the best you can by not introducing more fish to the already overloaded quarantine tank. At least your quarantine in a 20-gallon long tank, so that helps the tang have a bit more swimming room. "Quarantine" does not refer to dosing medications, it is simply "segregation and observation" with medications dosed as needed.

I would suggest you keep water quality very high for the tang, don't use carbon (it has been linked to HLLE), use garlic drops on the food, and feed a high quality, varied diet including pellets and frozen food. Hopefully you can get the tang in better condition soon. Kudos on you for trying to save the fish, but he definitely is not out of the woods yet.

[AdamsB]

Your tang is still in pretty rough condition and thus, very susceptible to disease. The tang has pretty bad HLLE (head and lateral line erosion) and will require very good care on your part to give him the best chance. If you introduced other fish to the tank at this time not only would that risk introducing disease to your already weakened tang, but it would also make water quality a bigger challenge for you. Water quality is one of the biggest factors in improving HLLE for your tang.

Your 20-gallon quarantine is "over full" already, you admit you're "doing the best you can", so continue doing the best you can by not introducing more fish to the already overloaded quarantine tank. At least your quarantine in a 20-gallon long tank, so that helps the tang have a bit more swimming room. "Quarantine" does not refer to dosing medications, it is simply "segregation and observation" with medications dosed as needed.

I would suggest you keep water quality very high for the tang, don't use carbon (it has been linked to HLLE), use garlic drops on the food, and feed a high quality, varied diet including pellets and frozen food. Hopefully you can get the tang in better condition soon. Kudos on you for trying to save the fish, but he definitely is not out of the woods yet.

Thanks for the input. I'll definitely hold off on the other fish. I have been using carbon but I'll remove that and I've been feeding freeze dried brine shrimp, cyclopeeze and dried nori ripped up small all soaked in garlic guard. Unfortunately the position of the tank against a wall doesn't allow me to use a hob filter and I'm afraid of the tang getting stuck behind an internal particularly because he's still a little skittish (happened a few times in my fresh water days). Is it something I should risk? I have a piece of old live rock in there from the sump of my display, won't that do the same thing?

[The Guy]

Hope the tang cops aren't around! :sorry: but it's just not a good idea to put him in a 20 g long even on his own, I agree with Bill it will probably stress the tang out more. My 2 cents worth!!
Ok now we got the whole story, I probably would have done a rescue buy as well and try and help him get healthy. If a 20 long is what you have for him to get better in then do your best to keep your water quality up and I agree the garlic drops in the food is a great idea.
You may want to try some nori/seaweed on a clip, my tangs go crazy for it. But do not add any fish to the tank. Good luck hope the tang makes it.

[gregzz4]

Forgive me for not reading the whole thread, but from what I've read ...

You are running a QT without filtration - I'd change that pronto :surprise:

I'd be using at least some kind of HOB Aqua filter

Do NOT add any new fish to your QT until you have your levels under control

And I suggest you learn about the Nitrogen Cycle before you add any more fish to your tank :wink:

[AdamsB]

Forgive me for not reading the whole thread, but from what I've read ...

You are running a QT without filtration - I'd change that pronto :surprise:

I'd be using at least some kind of HOB Aqua filter

Do NOT add any new fish to your QT until you have your levels under control

And I suggest you learn about the Nitrogen Cycle before you add any more fish to your tank :wink:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's pointless to run a filter while methylene blue is in the water column seeing as its an antibiotic. Now that I've done complete water change I've added some old live rock from the sump that I'm not worried about. Combined with weekly 50% water changes and siphoning isn't this better than a hob? (which I can't fit due to the tanks location)

And I learned the nitrogen cycle many years ago :)

[Aquattro]

Combined with weekly 50% water changes and siphoning isn't this better than a hob? (which I can't fit due to the tanks location)



No, in a filterless QT, NH3 can build up in less than a day. Weekly water changes often aren't enough. As for HOB filters, they can also be HOF or HOS, you don't need to put it on the back. At this point there's no point, unless you have a piece of mature filter media. It's a good practice to keep a foam block in your sump for times that you need it.

[AdamsB]

No, in a filterless QT, NH3 can build up in less than a day. Weekly water changes often aren't enough. As for HOB filters, they can also be HOF or HOS, you don't need to put it on the back. At this point there's no point, unless you have a piece of mature filter media. It's a good practice to keep a foam block in your sump for times that you need it.

But what does a filter do that my live rock doesn't?

[Aquattro]

But what does a filter do that my live rock doesn't?

Circulates water more efficiently through the media. Given the lack of filter, a fair amount of smaller pieces of rock (~10 pounds) would suffice. So if you have a single piece, I'd probably break it up to increase surface area.

[gregzz4]

And I learned the nitrogen cycle many years ago :)
I typed that a little too quickly
Didn't mean it to be snarky

Hang-on filters remove lots of detritus, and can also be used for all kinds of media
They're easier to deal with than LR

[AdamsB]

Water just tested 0 for nh3 and no2 on elos kits, didn't bother testing for nitrate. I think the live rock route is working for me, I have about 6 lbs, the ugly stuff from my sump that isn't display worthy. 550gph of circulation and the tanks being aerated. I see no difference between this and having a mechanical filter.

[Aquattro]

I see no difference between this and having a mechanical filter.

Essentially, there is no difference, although a mature media filter can work faster than rock. And filter media can be re-usable once you're done with it. Rock, not as easily. If you've used medications, it may be too deeply adsorbed into the rock pores to remove. Foam blocks can be bleached and re-seeded. But, if it's a one off, you have spare rock, and it does the job, that's all that matters.

[AdamsB]

Essentially, there is no difference, although a mature media filter can work faster than rock. And filter media can be re-usable once you're done with it. Rock, not as easily. If you've used medications, it may be too deeply adsorbed into the rock pores to remove. Foam blocks can be bleached and re-seeded. But, if it's a one off, you have spare rock, and it does the job, that's all that matters.

I guess for medicating purposes it's definitely more beneficial to have a filter. I could buy 50 filter pads for what the rock cost me. But this was kinda a make do rushed tank to try and rescue a tang. Once he's better i'll have to reassess the setup and most likely relocate to an area where adding a 10 gallon sump would work. Then I can filter and protein skim. My tank is getting to the stage now where it's not worth not quarantining. Thanks everyone for the input. I'll update in a few weeks an let you all know how the tang does. Hopefully it all works out.