LFS Experience

[fishnut]

At the lfs where I buy livestock, the policy is that the fish will only be held if you pay for it first. About 4 days after paying in full for a saltwater angelfish, I noticed that it had white spots on its fins. The owner told me that it had lymphocystis, and that a porkfish in the same tank would take care of the problem, and that the fish would be cured by the time I would be ready to take it home, in about a month's time. This person also said that the fish was "healthy" and eating. I observed that the fish had a chunk out of the dorsal fin, and informed the owner that I did not wish to take it. I was unable to get a credit or a refund - instead I was offered a 2 inch scroll coral - worth $ 100 according to the owner - in place of the fish (which was priced at $ 150). I know for sure that I could buy the same coral for $ 35 at J & L, or one 4x the size at another local lfs for the same price. I'd like to know what you guys think of this, and any suggestions as to how you would have handled this situation. Thanks.

P.S. I had purchased 4 tanks, 3 skimmers, 1-MH/
VHO lighting unit, 1 aquarium cabinet, live rock, powerheads, salt, and 10 fish from this person previous to this incident. Their claim was that they would have difficulty in selling this fish to anyone else since it was one they didn't usually get in (I had requested it).

[canadawest]

Hmmm.... Dillema....

On one side you did request the fish, so it would be reasonable for the LFS to hold back a deposit of some sort, but I dissagree that you should be responsible for 100% of the price. As a purchaser (of ANYTHING) you are entitled to change your mind and get a refund/credit of some amount (less any deposit or holdback) from any retail store, it's Canadian law.

I do understand that many LFS have a no refund policy, but in this case they should be more reasonable with their credit offer as I feel they are really taking you on this one.

In my opinion I would no longer do any business with this particular LFS if that is how they choose to treat their paying (and in your case seemingly good) customers.

Just my $0.02 worth.

[StirCrazy]

Originally posted by canadawest:
Hmmm.... Dillema....

I dissagree that you should be responsible for 100% of the price. As a purchaser (of ANYTHING) you are entitled to change your mind and get a refund/credit of some amount (less any deposit or holdback) from any retail store, it's Canadian law.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">does this apply to special orders? I don't think so, I think that only applies to normaly stocked items. IMHO if you special ordered a fish, they were right in making you pay up front with a no return/exchange. personaly I don't understand why you didn't take it home as sooner but there might have been stuff going on I am not aware of.. but I think other companies would have said take it or to bad.. as much as I hate to say it there are two strikes against you.. 1, you know the policy befor you ordered it.. and 2, it was a special order not a stocked item. that would be like me ordering a super chip for my truck and after they get it custom burned for my computer in my truck I say I don't want it..my parts guy is one of my good friends and he would even tell me to bad you bought it..

Steve

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

Hmm...interesting. So what is the lfs' policy if the fish dies in their care ? That is...if you paid for the fish and something goes bad after a day...who gets the shorter end of the stick ?

- Victor.

[ 29 August 2002, 22:59: Message edited by: reefburnaby ]

[EmilyB]

I've never heard of anything like that. If you buy it, it is your fish. I don't think I'd ever leave a fish in the care of a LFS once I paid for it.

[titus]

Hello Victor,

Haha good one! :D
Titus

[fishnut]

Thanks to all who replied. It helped to have some feedback and get others' opinions.

I personally think that the settlement could have been more equitable, in light of the fact that I was paying top dollar, and the fact that I had given this store a lot of business.

In another case, where I had purchased a fish from a different store, and the fish died, the owner gave me a full refund, no problem.

To Emily B: Would you take home a fish that had just arrived in the store, or would you wait a certain amount of time before purchasing it and putting it in your tank ?

[Mak]

Originally posted by fishnut:
Would you take home a fish that had just arrived in the store, or would you wait a certain amount of time before purchasing it and putting it in your tank ?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Fishnut, get a quarantine tank up and runnin. Maybe a 20g or someting ( 40g breeder would be nice ), also I believe you can get a 33g for like $40 at King Eds.

BTW J&L is maybe the only place I would trust with my Fish ;) for a month.

[EmilyB]

To Emily B: Would you take home a fish that had just arrived in the store, or would you wait a certain amount of time before purchasing it and putting it in your tank <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Most of the fish I buy now have been at the LFS for some time, are strong and eating. QT is the way to go, as said, if you are not sure. But making the QT tank a pleasurable experience for your new purchase is important too.

[Aquattro]

I know in Victoria that if a nice fish comes in the store, you buy it right away. If YOU don't, someone else will. And I certainly would not trust any LFS to keep a fish I had already paid for. If it's nice, buy it. Of course you want to carefully evaluate the health of the fish, but if it is healthy and nice, it won't be there tomorrow.
There are exceptions though. I just bought the nicest Powder Brown/Grey Tang I've ever seen. It had been at the store for 2 months and got fatter every time I saw it. The price was $89, which is also the reason it was there so long. It just went on sale and came home with me.

To add to this story, a local LFS used to "hold" fish after you paid for it, sell it again to someone else, and tell the customer it died...sorry, no refund.

[Canadian]

Back in the day Pets West (despite their pitiful selection) used to be really good about holding fish. In fact, you could simply show up, say you wanted a certain fish, they'd write on the tank that the fish was on hold for you and you didn't have to pay a dime to do so. Ah, the good ol' days . . . Of course that was back when a Flame Angel was on sale for $199 and you had to wait a couple of months for one to finally make its way into town.

Another good bet is to become buddy-buddy with someone at the store. That way they can keep an eye on the fish for you, and give it a little extra attention (careful feedings etc.) to ensure it's healthy prior to leaving the store, destined for your tank.

Brad, what store used to do that? (If you don't mind posting it online) I don't think I ever saw that scam pulled and I've seen some of the most shady LFS-types to ever exist come and go ;)

[Aquattro]

Andrew, it was Safari Pets while under the last owner. I was witness to this and other horrific business practices with him running the store. I was even the "victim" once. Thankfully his career in the pet industry was short lived.

On a different note, what does the reefing future hold for you? Finished school yet?

[fishnut]

I have both a 20g quarantine/hospital tank, and a 55g holding tank, which I use before adding any new fish to the display tank.

If a nice fish comes into the store, it will likely be gone if not purchased right away - however, I prefer to have the store hold the fish for 2 weeks before bringing it home, in order to see if it is eating and adjusting well to captivity, and to lessen the stress of being moved twice in a very short space of time.

That being said, I guess it is a calculated risk to leave it at the store, the only advantage being that this particular owner can diagnose disease better than I. Feedings and water quality are excellent at this shop - perhaps an agreement in writing at the time of purchase, stipulating the conditions of total or partial refund (if any) would be helpful.

Sometimes it just seems that once they have your money, you are at their mercy, as in the case of the unscrupulous dealer who sold the fish and then said it had died, in a previous post.

[Canadian]

I sort of assumed it was at Safari Pets - when I was there it was a full time job just trying to keep that guy and his father honest, let alone take care of the tanks and such.

How's the reefing scene in Victoria looking now anyway? The only place I've been into in the last year was Creatures, and their saltwater selection is basically non-existent now. I would assume that it's dwindling a bit in light of the fact that most people in the hobby are now well aware of J&L Aquatics.

My reefing future looks bleak. I'm not even going to fathom setting up another tank until I'm finished classes, and that could be a long way off due to the fact that I'm considering doing my Masters.

[ron101]

does this apply to special orders? I don't think so, I think that only applies to normaly stocked items. IMHO if you special ordered a fish, they were right in making you pay up front with a no return/exchange.

Yes and no. If the lfs receives a healthy specimen and informs you of its arrival and gives you a reasonable amount of time to pick it up, then yes the customer should be expected to pay in full. If on the other hand the specimen in obviously unhealthy then the lfs should offer credit, a substitute, order another, or if possible nurse it back to health.

When a customer places an order it is, unless otherwise specified, for a non-defective product. So IMO it really depends if fishnut placed and payed for an advanced order or if he made a casual request to the lfs and what, if any, policies the store has.

[Aquattro]

Originally posted by Canadian:


How's the reefing scene in Victoria looking now anyway? <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Going downhill, I'm afraid. We had potential with one store, but that went away. Safari has lowered prices to be competitive for the Vic market(which doesn't mean much) and the fish seem to be in decent shape. Rock and coral prices are still out the window...$15/lb for marshall rock. A recent near dead m. capricornus was priced at $120....kinda silly...
Hillside tries to offer corals at good prices, but J&L is still the source for almost all my purchases. Some of the other online shops are OK, but shipping is more to Vic.
Good luck with the Masters....lots of work ahead with that!!

[Troy F]

Originally posted by Canadian:
My reefing future looks bleak. I'm not even going to fathom setting up another tank and that could be a long way off due to the fact that I'm considering doing my Masters.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How many Masters do you have? :D

[Canadian]

Oh you're one sick puppy Troy, but I like it! :D

[Troy F]

:D